CES letters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

What FCPS did was mild by comparison to MCPS. All they did was set a minimum percentage like 1.5% of students admitted to TJ need to come from each high-school, and still the most wealthy schools send like 15X that minmum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

What FCPS did was mild by comparison to MCPS. All they did was set a minimum percentage like 1.5% of students admitted to TJ need to come from each high-school, and still the most wealthy schools send like 15X that minmum.

Not mild compared to MCPS, it's WAY WORSE. There isn't 15x more able students in wealthy schools. Definitely not. Just take a look at the numbers of highly able students spread across the middle schools of MCPS. I'd rather have a lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

What FCPS did was mild by comparison to MCPS. All they did was set a minimum percentage like 1.5% of students admitted to TJ need to come from each high-school, and still the most wealthy schools send like 15X that minmum.

Not mild compared to MCPS, it's WAY WORSE. There isn't 15x more able students in wealthy schools. Definitely not. Just take a look at the numbers of highly able students spread across the middle schools of MCPS. I'd rather have a lottery.

Oh yes, in VA they just said each school has to have a minimum of 1% even though the ultra-wealthy schools still contribute 20% of the stuendts. It's very minor but people went crazy over this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

Am I that naive that I am shocked by this / don’t fully believe it? People prep their kids for MAP tests? We didn’t even know what they were when he entered school and aren’t even that aware of when they’re given. Often they’ll tell us like the day before. Is this a myth? Does anyone know a kid who was actually in MAP prep?

Also, I have to say I’m humbled by some of these scores. My son was 227 at 98th%ile. Prior to this last test he has been straight 99%ile in both math and reading. I have been very curious to know how many others like him are out there. It’s very helpful to know he will be in CES with kids who are just as or more capable as he is. While it’s reported as only a percentile difference, the difference between 227 and 240 seems significant to me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

Am I that naive that I am shocked by this / don’t fully believe it? People prep their kids for MAP tests? We didn’t even know what they were when he entered school and aren’t even that aware of when they’re given. Often they’ll tell us like the day before. Is this a myth? Does anyone know a kid who was actually in MAP prep?

Also, I have to say I’m humbled by some of these scores. My son was 227 at 98th%ile. Prior to this last test he has been straight 99%ile in both math and reading. I have been very curious to know how many others like him are out there. It’s very helpful to know he will be in CES with kids who are just as or more capable as he is. While it’s reported as only a percentile difference, the difference between 227 and 240 seems significant to me!

I'm the parent of a child with 230+ MAP-R score and and a seat at CES. DC never prepped and has always scored in 99 percentile for both reading and math. I'm also skeptical that lots of kids are prepping and that "tens of thousands" are being spent doing it. If they were prepping in such large numbers, I'd expect to see a greater discrepancy in MAP scores between MCPS and national than the one point or so difference shown in the lastest report.

I also wonder how many kids there are out there like ours, and how many of them were accepted into CES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

Am I that naive that I am shocked by this / don’t fully believe it? People prep their kids for MAP tests? We didn’t even know what they were when he entered school and aren’t even that aware of when they’re given. Often they’ll tell us like the day before. Is this a myth? Does anyone know a kid who was actually in MAP prep?

Also, I have to say I’m humbled by some of these scores. My son was 227 at 98th%ile. Prior to this last test he has been straight 99%ile in both math and reading. I have been very curious to know how many others like him are out there. It’s very helpful to know he will be in CES with kids who are just as or more capable as he is. While it’s reported as only a percentile difference, the difference between 227 and 240 seems significant to me!

I'm the parent of a child with 230+ MAP-R score and and a seat at CES. DC never prepped and has always scored in 99 percentile for both reading and math. I'm also skeptical that lots of kids are prepping and that "tens of thousands" are being spent doing it. If they were prepping in such large numbers, I'd expect to see a greater discrepancy in MAP scores between MCPS and national than the one point or so difference shown in the lastest report.

I also wonder how many kids there are out there like ours, and how many of them were accepted into CES.

People definitely prepped for the Cogat exam when that was administered and I’m sure that’s what PP was referring to. It’s the type of test where familiarity and practice can make a difference since it’s more about logic, reasoning, puzzles, etc. and not so much about whether the student knows substantive content, like how to divide fractions or find the area of a triangle. While people did prep for it, saying that thousands was spent is an epic exaggeration. I’ve never heard of anyone prepping for a MAP test and I’m not sure how one would specifically prep for MAP-R in particular. There are definitely kids who are getting more advanced math content at home that allows them to score really high simply because they know more concepts that aren’t taught and therefore aren’t known to most 3rd graders. They tend to score really high in MAP-R as a result. Same for kids who are required to read a ton at home rather than watch tv or play video games. They will get a boost on the MAP-R, not because theyre being prepped for it, but because they can read and comprehend higher level texts more easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

Am I that naive that I am shocked by this / don’t fully believe it? People prep their kids for MAP tests? We didn’t even know what they were when he entered school and aren’t even that aware of when they’re given. Often they’ll tell us like the day before. Is this a myth? Does anyone know a kid who was actually in MAP prep?

Also, I have to say I’m humbled by some of these scores. My son was 227 at 98th%ile. Prior to this last test he has been straight 99%ile in both math and reading. I have been very curious to know how many others like him are out there. It’s very helpful to know he will be in CES with kids who are just as or more capable as he is. While it’s reported as only a percentile difference, the difference between 227 and 240 seems significant to me!

I'm the parent of a child with 230+ MAP-R score and and a seat at CES. DC never prepped and has always scored in 99 percentile for both reading and math. I'm also skeptical that lots of kids are prepping and that "tens of thousands" are being spent doing it. If they were prepping in such large numbers, I'd expect to see a greater discrepancy in MAP scores between MCPS and national than the one point or so difference shown in the lastest report.

I also wonder how many kids there are out there like ours, and how many of them were accepted into CES.

I'm not that PP, but are you asking how many kids are consistently ~99th percentile across the board, didn't prep and did get into CES? My kid is one of those as well. I'm sure there are at least as many who are the same but just didn't get selected from the pool.

Maybe I'm naive or just live in a more laid back neighborhood, but it would be surprising to me if too many people prepped for the test with outside tutors, even in a very uptight area.

IDK, but I feel like it's actually hard to prep to that level, though there are surely some kids who 1) do get lots of outside tutoring as a supplement and 2) get 99s across the board. But that doesn't mean there's causation at work and they wouldn't have scored in the 99th regardless of prep. It's one thing to get your kid from an 85 to a 90 or maybe even 95 with test prep. I don't know how successful you'd be trying to get your kid from a 95 to a 99, or even 97 to 99, even if it should be just as easy or easier, in theory.

Maybe because 99th is actually broad, and if you have a kid consistently in 99th, they're probably very firmly in 99th, not just barely. And if they're actually more like 99.5 or 99.95 (you can see for some tests online, even if they don't share decimals in the report), well...

A 99.5 kid is a 1 in 200 kid and a 99.95 kid is a 1 in 2000 kid-- not just a 1 in 100 kid (99).

I just don't think you can prep to that in most cases, if you started out as a 1 in 20 kid (95).

Separately, I'd assume that about 2-3% in MCPS consistently score around 99th (nationally) across the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

Am I that naive that I am shocked by this / don’t fully believe it? People prep their kids for MAP tests? We didn’t even know what they were when he entered school and aren’t even that aware of when they’re given. Often they’ll tell us like the day before. Is this a myth? Does anyone know a kid who was actually in MAP prep?

Also, I have to say I’m humbled by some of these scores. My son was 227 at 98th%ile. Prior to this last test he has been straight 99%ile in both math and reading. I have been very curious to know how many others like him are out there. It’s very helpful to know he will be in CES with kids who are just as or more capable as he is. While it’s reported as only a percentile difference, the difference between 227 and 240 seems significant to me!

I'm the parent of a child with 230+ MAP-R score and and a seat at CES. DC never prepped and has always scored in 99 percentile for both reading and math. I'm also skeptical that lots of kids are prepping and that "tens of thousands" are being spent doing it. If they were prepping in such large numbers, I'd expect to see a greater discrepancy in MAP scores between MCPS and national than the one point or so difference shown in the lastest report.

I also wonder how many kids there are out there like ours, and how many of them were accepted into CES.

I'm not that PP, but are you asking how many kids are consistently ~99th percentile across the board, didn't prep and did get into CES? My kid is one of those as well. I'm sure there are at least as many who are the same but just didn't get selected from the pool.

Maybe I'm naive or just live in a more laid back neighborhood, but it would be surprising to me if too many people prepped for the test with outside tutors, even in a very uptight area.

IDK, but I feel like it's actually hard to prep to that level, though there are surely some kids who 1) do get lots of outside tutoring as a supplement and 2) get 99s across the board. But that doesn't mean there's causation at work and they wouldn't have scored in the 99th regardless of prep. It's one thing to get your kid from an 85 to a 90 or maybe even 95 with test prep. I don't know how successful you'd be trying to get your kid from a 95 to a 99, or even 97 to 99, even if it should be just as easy or easier, in theory.

Maybe because 99th is actually broad, and if you have a kid consistently in 99th, they're probably very firmly in 99th, not just barely. And if they're actually more like 99.5 or 99.95 (you can see for some tests online, even if they don't share decimals in the report), well...

A 99.5 kid is a 1 in 200 kid and a 99.95 kid is a 1 in 2000 kid-- not just a 1 in 100 kid (99).

I just don't think you can prep to that in most cases, if you started out as a 1 in 20 kid (95).

Separately, I'd assume that about 2-3% in MCPS consistently score around 99th (nationally) across the board.

My youngest also wasn't selected they were 20-25 points over the 99th%. At this age I wouldn't call what they do prep per see, but they are an avid reader and we enjoy solving math problems together.

I know prep goes on especially in some areas. I'd heard that one prep center is so popular at one ES that there's an afterschool bus for kids that go there. I'm not sure this is a real problem at least not at this age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

Am I that naive that I am shocked by this / don’t fully believe it? People prep their kids for MAP tests? We didn’t even know what they were when he entered school and aren’t even that aware of when they’re given. Often they’ll tell us like the day before. Is this a myth? Does anyone know a kid who was actually in MAP prep?

Also, I have to say I’m humbled by some of these scores. My son was 227 at 98th%ile. Prior to this last test he has been straight 99%ile in both math and reading. I have been very curious to know how many others like him are out there. It’s very helpful to know he will be in CES with kids who are just as or more capable as he is. While it’s reported as only a percentile difference, the difference between 227 and 240 seems significant to me!

I'm the parent of a child with 230+ MAP-R score and and a seat at CES. DC never prepped and has always scored in 99 percentile for both reading and math. I'm also skeptical that lots of kids are prepping and that "tens of thousands" are being spent doing it. If they were prepping in such large numbers, I'd expect to see a greater discrepancy in MAP scores between MCPS and national than the one point or so difference shown in the lastest report.

I also wonder how many kids there are out there like ours, and how many of them were accepted into CES.

I'm not that PP, but are you asking how many kids are consistently ~99th percentile across the board, didn't prep and did get into CES? My kid is one of those as well. I'm sure there are at least as many who are the same but just didn't get selected from the pool.

Maybe I'm naive or just live in a more laid back neighborhood, but it would be surprising to me if too many people prepped for the test with outside tutors, even in a very uptight area.

IDK, but I feel like it's actually hard to prep to that level, though there are surely some kids who 1) do get lots of outside tutoring as a supplement and 2) get 99s across the board. But that doesn't mean there's causation at work and they wouldn't have scored in the 99th regardless of prep. It's one thing to get your kid from an 85 to a 90 or maybe even 95 with test prep. I don't know how successful you'd be trying to get your kid from a 95 to a 99, or even 97 to 99, even if it should be just as easy or easier, in theory.

Maybe because 99th is actually broad, and if you have a kid consistently in 99th, they're probably very firmly in 99th, not just barely. And if they're actually more like 99.5 or 99.95 (you can see for some tests online, even if they don't share decimals in the report), well...

A 99.5 kid is a 1 in 200 kid and a 99.95 kid is a 1 in 2000 kid-- not just a 1 in 100 kid (99).

I just don't think you can prep to that in most cases, if you started out as a 1 in 20 kid (95).

Separately, I'd assume that about 2-3% in MCPS consistently score around 99th (nationally) across the board.

My youngest also wasn't selected they were 20-25 points over the 99th%. At this age I wouldn't call what they do prep per see, but they are an avid reader and we enjoy solving math problems together.

I know prep goes on especially in some areas. I'd heard that one prep center is so popular at one ES that there's an afterschool bus for kids that go there. I'm not sure this is a real problem at least not at this age.

Do you mean 20-25 points over 99th in MAP-Math? MCPS is looking specifically at MAP-R. If you did mean MAP-R, your child likely has hyperlexia, which most often comes with its own issues.

[Anonymous]

Grizzled veteran of the MCPS Magnet Hunger Games here and people absolutely prep, even if they don't call it that. Sure, they may just call it tutoring, but when you are paying for access to above-grade-level instruction, that's prepping. Particularly when admission is based solely on a test that measures exposure to materials.

It's slightly less of an issue at the level of CES admissions than MS and HS magnet admissions, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

Am I that naive that I am shocked by this / don’t fully believe it? People prep their kids for MAP tests? We didn’t even know what they were when he entered school and aren’t even that aware of when they’re given. Often they’ll tell us like the day before. Is this a myth? Does anyone know a kid who was actually in MAP prep?

Also, I have to say I’m humbled by some of these scores. My son was 227 at 98th%ile. Prior to this last test he has been straight 99%ile in both math and reading. I have been very curious to know how many others like him are out there. It’s very helpful to know he will be in CES with kids who are just as or more capable as he is. While it’s reported as only a percentile difference, the difference between 227 and 240 seems significant to me!

I'm the parent of a child with 230+ MAP-R score and and a seat at CES. DC never prepped and has always scored in 99 percentile for both reading and math. I'm also skeptical that lots of kids are prepping and that "tens of thousands" are being spent doing it. If they were prepping in such large numbers, I'd expect to see a greater discrepancy in MAP scores between MCPS and national than the one point or so difference shown in the lastest report.

I also wonder how many kids there are out there like ours, and how many of them were accepted into CES.

I'm not that PP, but are you asking how many kids are consistently ~99th percentile across the board, didn't prep and did get into CES? My kid is one of those as well. I'm sure there are at least as many who are the same but just didn't get selected from the pool.

Maybe I'm naive or just live in a more laid back neighborhood, but it would be surprising to me if too many people prepped for the test with outside tutors, even in a very uptight area.

IDK, but I feel like it's actually hard to prep to that level, though there are surely some kids who 1) do get lots of outside tutoring as a supplement and 2) get 99s across the board. But that doesn't mean there's causation at work and they wouldn't have scored in the 99th regardless of prep. It's one thing to get your kid from an 85 to a 90 or maybe even 95 with test prep. I don't know how successful you'd be trying to get your kid from a 95 to a 99, or even 97 to 99, even if it should be just as easy or easier, in theory.

Maybe because 99th is actually broad, and if you have a kid consistently in 99th, they're probably very firmly in 99th, not just barely. And if they're actually more like 99.5 or 99.95 (you can see for some tests online, even if they don't share decimals in the report), well...

A 99.5 kid is a 1 in 200 kid and a 99.95 kid is a 1 in 2000 kid-- not just a 1 in 100 kid (99).

I just don't think you can prep to that in most cases, if you started out as a 1 in 20 kid (95).

Separately, I'd assume that about 2-3% in MCPS consistently score around 99th (nationally) across the board.

My youngest also wasn't selected they were 20-25 points over the 99th%. At this age I wouldn't call what they do prep per see, but they are an avid reader and we enjoy solving math problems together.

I know prep goes on especially in some areas. I'd heard that one prep center is so popular at one ES that there's an afterschool bus for kids that go there. I'm not sure this is a real problem at least not at this age.

Do you mean 20-25 points over 99th in MAP-Math? MCPS is looking specifically at MAP-R. If you did mean MAP-R, your child likely has hyperlexia, which most often comes with its own issues.

If PP had a kid with hyperlexia, they'd probably know it, so what's your point? Sounds like unfounded insecurity and sour grapes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

Am I that naive that I am shocked by this / don’t fully believe it? People prep their kids for MAP tests? We didn’t even know what they were when he entered school and aren’t even that aware of when they’re given. Often they’ll tell us like the day before. Is this a myth? Does anyone know a kid who was actually in MAP prep?

Also, I have to say I’m humbled by some of these scores. My son was 227 at 98th%ile. Prior to this last test he has been straight 99%ile in both math and reading. I have been very curious to know how many others like him are out there. It’s very helpful to know he will be in CES with kids who are just as or more capable as he is. While it’s reported as only a percentile difference, the difference between 227 and 240 seems significant to me!

I'm the parent of a child with 230+ MAP-R score and and a seat at CES. DC never prepped and has always scored in 99 percentile for both reading and math. I'm also skeptical that lots of kids are prepping and that "tens of thousands" are being spent doing it. If they were prepping in such large numbers, I'd expect to see a greater discrepancy in MAP scores between MCPS and national than the one point or so difference shown in the lastest report.

I also wonder how many kids there are out there like ours, and how many of them were accepted into CES.

I'm not that PP, but are you asking how many kids are consistently ~99th percentile across the board, didn't prep and did get into CES? My kid is one of those as well. I'm sure there are at least as many who are the same but just didn't get selected from the pool.

Maybe I'm naive or just live in a more laid back neighborhood, but it would be surprising to me if too many people prepped for the test with outside tutors, even in a very uptight area.

IDK, but I feel like it's actually hard to prep to that level, though there are surely some kids who 1) do get lots of outside tutoring as a supplement and 2) get 99s across the board. But that doesn't mean there's causation at work and they wouldn't have scored in the 99th regardless of prep. It's one thing to get your kid from an 85 to a 90 or maybe even 95 with test prep. I don't know how successful you'd be trying to get your kid from a 95 to a 99, or even 97 to 99, even if it should be just as easy or easier, in theory.

Maybe because 99th is actually broad, and if you have a kid consistently in 99th, they're probably very firmly in 99th, not just barely. And if they're actually more like 99.5 or 99.95 (you can see for some tests online, even if they don't share decimals in the report), well...

A 99.5 kid is a 1 in 200 kid and a 99.95 kid is a 1 in 2000 kid-- not just a 1 in 100 kid (99).

I just don't think you can prep to that in most cases, if you started out as a 1 in 20 kid (95).

Separately, I'd assume that about 2-3% in MCPS consistently score around 99th (nationally) across the board.

My youngest also wasn't selected they were 20-25 points over the 99th%. At this age I wouldn't call what they do prep per see, but they are an avid reader and we enjoy solving math problems together.

I know prep goes on especially in some areas. I'd heard that one prep center is so popular at one ES that there's an afterschool bus for kids that go there. I'm not sure this is a real problem at least not at this age.

Do you mean 20-25 points over 99th in MAP-Math? MCPS is looking specifically at MAP-R. If you did mean MAP-R, your child likely has hyperlexia, which most often comes with its own issues.

If PP had a kid with hyperlexia, they'd probably know it, so what's your point? Sounds like unfounded insecurity and sour grapes.

Just curious?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

Am I that naive that I am shocked by this / don’t fully believe it? People prep their kids for MAP tests? We didn’t even know what they were when he entered school and aren’t even that aware of when they’re given. Often they’ll tell us like the day before. Is this a myth? Does anyone know a kid who was actually in MAP prep?

Also, I have to say I’m humbled by some of these scores. My son was 227 at 98th%ile. Prior to this last test he has been straight 99%ile in both math and reading. I have been very curious to know how many others like him are out there. It’s very helpful to know he will be in CES with kids who are just as or more capable as he is. While it’s reported as only a percentile difference, the difference between 227 and 240 seems significant to me!

I'm the parent of a child with 230+ MAP-R score and and a seat at CES. DC never prepped and has always scored in 99 percentile for both reading and math. I'm also skeptical that lots of kids are prepping and that "tens of thousands" are being spent doing it. If they were prepping in such large numbers, I'd expect to see a greater discrepancy in MAP scores between MCPS and national than the one point or so difference shown in the lastest report.

I also wonder how many kids there are out there like ours, and how many of them were accepted into CES.

I'm not that PP, but are you asking how many kids are consistently ~99th percentile across the board, didn't prep and did get into CES? My kid is one of those as well. I'm sure there are at least as many who are the same but just didn't get selected from the pool.

Maybe I'm naive or just live in a more laid back neighborhood, but it would be surprising to me if too many people prepped for the test with outside tutors, even in a very uptight area.

IDK, but I feel like it's actually hard to prep to that level, though there are surely some kids who 1) do get lots of outside tutoring as a supplement and 2) get 99s across the board. But that doesn't mean there's causation at work and they wouldn't have scored in the 99th regardless of prep. It's one thing to get your kid from an 85 to a 90 or maybe even 95 with test prep. I don't know how successful you'd be trying to get your kid from a 95 to a 99, or even 97 to 99, even if it should be just as easy or easier, in theory.

Maybe because 99th is actually broad, and if you have a kid consistently in 99th, they're probably very firmly in 99th, not just barely. And if they're actually more like 99.5 or 99.95 (you can see for some tests online, even if they don't share decimals in the report), well...

A 99.5 kid is a 1 in 200 kid and a 99.95 kid is a 1 in 2000 kid-- not just a 1 in 100 kid (99).

I just don't think you can prep to that in most cases, if you started out as a 1 in 20 kid (95).

Separately, I'd assume that about 2-3% in MCPS consistently score around 99th (nationally) across the board.

My youngest also wasn't selected they were 20-25 points over the 99th%. At this age I wouldn't call what they do prep per see, but they are an avid reader and we enjoy solving math problems together.

I know prep goes on especially in some areas. I'd heard that one prep center is so popular at one ES that there's an afterschool bus for kids that go there. I'm not sure this is a real problem at least not at this age.

Do you mean 20-25 points over 99th in MAP-Math? MCPS is looking specifically at MAP-R. If you did mean MAP-R, your child likely has hyperlexia, which most often comes with its own issues.

I meant what I wrote that was 20-25 points over the 99th% in both MAP-M and MAP-R.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grizzled veteran of the MCPS Magnet Hunger Games here and people absolutely prep, even if they don't call it that. Sure, they may just call it tutoring, but when you are paying for access to above-grade-level instruction, that's prepping. Particularly when admission is based solely on a test that measures exposure to materials.

It's slightly less of an issue at the level of CES admissions than MS and HS magnet admissions, though.

The first day of my kids CES class a few years ago the teacher asked the students how many of you had practiced taking the CogAT ahead of time. He said 75% of the kids raised their hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid scored a 234 on Reading. Lexile level 1245L–1395LL. Our home is in bounds for a Title 1 school, but he's been attending a small private. Excellent student. He was not even selected for the CES lottery, and we are shocked. 99th percentile in reading, 98th in math. He's white, though it seems from this thread that's not a factor. We suppose and imagine the county assumes he's doing fine in private, but private doesn't equal accelerated. I wish I better understood the logic and wasn't simply guessing.

This seems wrong. It's really unethical and disgusting MCPS isn't releasing more information. It's possible they normed the private school kids against each other.
I know in Fairfax they did something in the way they admit that reduced the number of private school admissions to the TJ magnet really dramatically. I don't recall what but my guess is applicants from private are overwhelmingly white/Asian and higher income which is what they do not want.

Oh FFS. While public schools are set up to serve all children in their area, I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination to assume that kids already attending privates would most likely continue at those privates if not admitted to a PS special program, and to admit accordingly. And that's discrimination against private school students-- not white and Asian students. I mean, really.

I agree.

I'm not opposed to the policy in general. I just think the school districts should be transparent about it which I think Fairfax was but MCPS is not.
The other thing is that in Fairfax it was done with clear racial motivations according to text messages and other documents by the people making those policies so that's wrong.

I'm not clear on that at all. I know some people may want to believe that but I think it was done to give everyone a fair chance not just people willing to game the system by dumping tens of thousands into prep classees.

Am I that naive that I am shocked by this / don’t fully believe it? People prep their kids for MAP tests? We didn’t even know what they were when he entered school and aren’t even that aware of when they’re given. Often they’ll tell us like the day before. Is this a myth? Does anyone know a kid who was actually in MAP prep?

Also, I have to say I’m humbled by some of these scores. My son was 227 at 98th%ile. Prior to this last test he has been straight 99%ile in both math and reading. I have been very curious to know how many others like him are out there. It’s very helpful to know he will be in CES with kids who are just as or more capable as he is. While it’s reported as only a percentile difference, the difference between 227 and 240 seems significant to me!

I'm the parent of a child with 230+ MAP-R score and and a seat at CES. DC never prepped and has always scored in 99 percentile for both reading and math. I'm also skeptical that lots of kids are prepping and that "tens of thousands" are being spent doing it. If they were prepping in such large numbers, I'd expect to see a greater discrepancy in MAP scores between MCPS and national than the one point or so difference shown in the lastest report.

I also wonder how many kids there are out there like ours, and how many of them were accepted into CES.

I'm not that PP, but are you asking how many kids are consistently ~99th percentile across the board, didn't prep and did get into CES? My kid is one of those as well. I'm sure there are at least as many who are the same but just didn't get selected from the pool.

Maybe I'm naive or just live in a more laid back neighborhood, but it would be surprising to me if too many people prepped for the test with outside tutors, even in a very uptight area.

IDK, but I feel like it's actually hard to prep to that level, though there are surely some kids who 1) do get lots of outside tutoring as a supplement and 2) get 99s across the board. But that doesn't mean there's causation at work and they wouldn't have scored in the 99th regardless of prep. It's one thing to get your kid from an 85 to a 90 or maybe even 95 with test prep. I don't know how successful you'd be trying to get your kid from a 95 to a 99, or even 97 to 99, even if it should be just as easy or easier, in theory.

Maybe because 99th is actually broad, and if you have a kid consistently in 99th, they're probably very firmly in 99th, not just barely. And if they're actually more like 99.5 or 99.95 (you can see for some tests online, even if they don't share decimals in the report), well...

A 99.5 kid is a 1 in 200 kid and a 99.95 kid is a 1 in 2000 kid-- not just a 1 in 100 kid (99).

I just don't think you can prep to that in most cases, if you started out as a 1 in 20 kid (95).

Separately, I'd assume that about 2-3% in MCPS consistently score around 99th (nationally) across the board.

My youngest also wasn't selected they were 20-25 points over the 99th%. At this age I wouldn't call what they do prep per see, but they are an avid reader and we enjoy solving math problems together.

I know prep goes on especially in some areas. I'd heard that one prep center is so popular at one ES that there's an afterschool bus for kids that go there. I'm not sure this is a real problem at least not at this age.

Do you mean 20-25 points over 99th in MAP-Math? MCPS is looking specifically at MAP-R. If you did mean MAP-R, your child likely has hyperlexia, which most often comes with its own issues.

If PP had a kid with hyperlexia, they'd probably know it, so what's your point? Sounds like unfounded insecurity and sour grapes.

Just curious?

The reason you wrote "If your kid scored that high, they probably have a burdensome neurological difference" is that you were... just curious?