At what point to Democrats give up on Obama?

[Anonymous]

I hear Bill Clinton speak about the exact same issues as Obama did yesterday and from Bill I hear a man who is smart and and reasonable and from Pres. Obama I hear about a man who seems intent on starting class warfare. His main agenda since he came into office was to raise taxes on the highest earners (who already pay the most taxes), and now he goes at it again. It's a mission that will surely fail, his job bill isn't going to do anything, it's all political with this guy, hes not trying to lead, hes trying to win the next election. I feel asl if the only reason for his running for president was to be the first black president, nothing more nothing less, and he loves the celebrity of being president. Definitely worse than Carter.

[jsteele]

As long as Obama is attempting to create a tax system in which millionaires pay at least as much in taxes as their secretaries, he will gain Democratic support.

[Anonymous]

In 2016. Speaking as one of the supposed "victims" of class warfare, I'll take his war over Bush's Iraq debacle any day. When Obama's war costs thousands of lives and three trillion dollars, I will re-evaluate.

[Anonymous]

Yes, OP, of course you're right. Democrats are thisclose to abandoning Obama and voting en masse for . . . Perry? Bachman? Romney? Paul?

Never mind.

[Anonymous]

2008 Hillary supporter here, who thinks Obama has done a good job. If many Democrats sit on their tails and don't turn out for Obama and we get President Perry, then they're just a sad and stupid lot.

[TheManWithAUsername]

What a weird idea. Those Dems who give up on Obama - by voting third party, writing in, or not showing up - won't do it because he's not Republican enough, as you suggest.

Much as I dislike the guy, I do appreciate your support for Bill Clinton. It might have done him more good, though, when idiots were calling him the most liberal president ever and calling for his head, as I'm sure you were when he was in office.

[Anonymous]

You might want to take a look at AP's Fact Check on that statement about millionaires paying less than secretaries. The facts don't support the claim.

Not a millionaire here, not even close, BTW!

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:You might want to take a look at AP's Fact Check on that statement about millionaires paying less than secretaries. The facts don't support the claim.

Not a millionaire here, not even close, BTW!

I didn't say that millionaires are paying less than their secretaries. I said that "Obama is attempting to create a tax system in which millionaires pay at least as much in taxes as their secretaries." Currently, some millionaires pay a higher percentage rate then their secretaries. The system doesn't need to be changed with regard to those folks. But, millionaires who make most of their income from capital gains pay a tax rate of 15%. Secretaries are likely to be in the 25% bracket. The system needs to be changed to account for such situations.

Or, you could support the Republican plan which is to not increase taxes on millionaires, but allow the current payroll tax decrease for the middle class to expire. Pitting the middle class against the upper class is, of course, definitely not class warfare when Republicans do it.

[Anonymous]

I didn't say you said that. Did you read the Fact Check column? I am not a Republican, and I think Obama is making a significant error to not suggest increasing the tax rate for investment income. He will let the tax cut for families making over $250k expire? Fine. But eliminate or greatly reduce deductions for them also, while not raising the 15% tax rate on investments? That penalizes people who work for their income while letting the genuinely wealthy off the hook, doesn't it? One hardly needs to be a Republican to find this puzzling!

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't say you said that. Did you read the Fact Check column? I am not a Republican, and I think Obama is making a significant error to not suggest increasing the tax rate for investment income. He will let the tax cut for families making over $250k expire? Fine. But eliminate or greatly reduce deductions for them also, while not raising the 15% tax rate on investments? That penalizes people who work for their income while letting the genuinely wealthy off the hook, doesn't it? One hardly needs to be a Republican to find this puzzling!

I did read the Fact Check column. I suspect that someone who knows a lot more about taxes than I do will write a rebuttal that completely shreds that column. I say that because I noticed significant errors and I am far from an expert. My understanding is that Obama is proposing a minimum tax for millionaires. It won't' matter what the source of their income is, if they make a million dollars, they will have a minimum tax. That means that capital gains are still attractive to those making less than a million dollars. But, if it is the only source of income for a millionaire, they will be subject to a minimum tax that will increase their effective rate to something more than 15%. It seems like a reasonable idea. Too bad it will never be enacted.

[Anonymous]

I don't think he is, from what I can decipher. If he is, that is not clear either to me or to the NYT editorial staff. Their editorial said Geithner explained that the administration "doesn't want to give to give Congress a detailed road map of tax reform." None of this will pass, as you said, jsteele. But it will will turn off some moderates and independents.

[Anonymous]

I hear Bill Clinton speak about the exact same issues as Obama did yesterday and from Bill I hear a man who is smart and and reasonable and from Pres. Obama I hear about a man who seems intent on starting class warfare.

Well, to be fair, Clinton is white. Obama is a scary black man who's trying to take away all our stuff and give it to lazy people.

[Anonymous]

You hear a man starting class warfare because that's what your handlers told you to think.

[Anonymous]

Of course the democrats will not give up on Obama.

Ask yourself honestly, are you better off now compared to 2008? I think that any honest person who has not been brainwashed by Fox News will have to answer, "Yes."

Look at all the promises that Obama has made and kept and the progress that he is making,..

He has gotten us cheap affordable health care, is actively pulling us out of Bush's two disastrous wars and has repaired our sullied international reputation, is saving the economy, is investing in Green Energy, has dramatically cut back on the corrupt crony capitalism that was rampant under Bush and is cutting back on all of the terrible 911 civil right violations like the fascist Patriot Act and he will soon close Gitmo.

And, lately he has been moving back to his true progressive roots. The country will soon rally around him. The Repubs don't have a chance...

[Anonymous]

Class Warfare has been going on since Reagan. The income gap continues to widen with various Federal protections for the rich (for example, tax on labor is higher than tax on investment income, unions protections are getting dismantled, deregulation of various industries to promote the raiding of pension funds, bailout of various 'banking' entities - not consumers, etc., etc., etc.)

I think the tipping point for democrats and Obama is medicare and social security cuts. If those programs go, then what is the point of having democrats. My main problem with Obama is how doesn't even put up a fight against the wingnuts. I at least want a fair debate, but the debate never happens. He wants to have a rational negotiation, but the other side's objective is not to help the country, but to tear him down.