Tourist submersible missing on visit to Titanic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An implosion would be the most merciful outcome for those unfortunate souls.

I am pretty sure they knew they were likely going to die soon because the French explorer on board was very knowledgeable and once they started descending too fast, they must have been aware they had a problem. I watched a video of him discussing getting stuck so deep in the ocean and how death from hypothermia is sort of gentle because you slowly fall asleep and don’t suffer. So he knew the possibilities and the risk.

The death itself was instant, but the minutes or hour leading to it must have been agony. Though I hope he/they did not share the knowledge out loud out of respect for the teenager. I know I wouldn’t have said anything, and anyway hope always dies last and I bet at least some of them were hoping for a miracle.

I am shocked the French expert even boarded that shoddy thing given his experience in much more state-of-the-art prior missions. I guess he was just a Titanic junkie and couldn’t resist one more dive especially given his advanced age. I feel mostly sorry for the loss of his life and that of the teenager.

Many of HP’s (French guy) friends have remarked that there is no place he would have rather ended up than beside Titanic. He was a widower and 77 is not bad innings - much of what comes after is painful decline.

My heart hurts over the teenager just starting his life. And his poor mother who will suffer until she dies.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

The only person whose arm was possibly twisted was the 19yo.

His arm wasn’t twisted, he chose to ride the amusement ride because Daddy wanted company.

How do you know his at wasn't twisted or that he wanted to go? Lots of kids and teens do things in an attempt to please their parents and vice versa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

The only person whose arm was possibly twisted was the 19yo.

His arm wasn’t twisted, he chose to ride the amusement ride because Daddy wanted company.

How do you know his at wasn't twisted or that he wanted to go? Lots of kids and teens do things in an attempt to please their parents and vice versa

He made the decision to go, if he really really didn’t want to go he should have put up a fight, kicking and screaming. He willingly signed the waiver and went, he probably had reservations and fear, but he is as accountable as any other passenger. He wasn’t a child. No one wants to take any personal responsibility at all. They knew the risks. It’s sad, but crap happens. Trying to justify this by suing and having 6 generations set for life is repulsive.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

I’m not talking about the people who were customers. Sad but there are thousands more like them. I’m talking about the idiot who ignored the data he was given about the odds this thing would implode, fired the guy who told him about it, then kept selling tickets.

Not every one of those guys will want to be on board personally, and maybe the inevitable lawsuits will help them see safety as something other than waste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

I would be surprised if OceanGate's waivers held up in court. They probably slap-dashed them the way they did everything else. And it would likely be easy for a lawyer to argue that given what has come out about their shoddy operations and cutting corners, that the people signing the waivers were not truly given full information about the risks when they were signing and that the waiver is invalid. Just writing "death" in there isn't really enough.

And before someone says it should have been obvious, Bob Ballard was on ABC News tonight and said that deep sea submersibles have been in use since 1960. Some of them go much deeper than this one; there are a few that have been rated safe to depths that the ocean doesn't even reach. And yet he pointed out that there has NEVER been an implosion accident like this one with a submersible, in all that time. He pointed this out in response to the anchor asking if this new carbon fiber hull was maybe the problem, and definitely seemed to be implying that there is a reason nobody else has done it this way. Did the passengers understand the materials science involved? It was clearly shoddy, but did they understand exactly how shoddy when making their decisions? I bet the families will successfully sue the pants off the company, but how many assets they have will be the question.

Deep sea submersibles can be done safely. Accidents are actually really rare, which I hadn't realized until listening to Ballard's explanation. But it's only that way with proper design, proper testing, proper risk assessment, and willingness to spend whatever time and resources it takes. None of which happened here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

I’m not talking about the people who were customers. Sad but there are thousands more like them. I’m talking about the idiot who ignored the data he was given about the odds this thing would implode, fired the guy who told him about it, then kept selling tickets.

Not every one of those guys will want to be on board personally, and maybe the inevitable lawsuits will help them see safety as something other than waste.

Maybe? There are still idiot CEOs who just don’t care. I am sure the execs here were well aware of potential litigation. They proceeded anyway, and suing them into oblivion to support 6 generations is just gross.

[Anonymous]

I’d be surprised if the company had significant assets or insurance.

[Anonymous]

I’m reallllllyyyy annoyed that we as tax payers will be finding this rescue of irresponsible billionaires. I feel the same way about people who refuse to leave in wildfires and hurricanes. Why do we have to pay for you to be dumb? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I feel awful for the 19 year old who according to his aunt didn’t even want to go on this trip, but only did it for his father. Everyone else should have known better, because they were warned by all the experts in the field, but no. They knew better. Well, I guess not, and we get this bill!

[Anonymous]

Pp again who doesn’t want to pay for billionaires - I just cannot believe the stupidity of going on this trip without a spare submersible to go find you or even an underwater camera to find you, like they found the debris. So dumb!!! Totally agreed with James Cameron’s assessment and how he said he always went down with a second sub!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

I’m not talking about the people who were customers. Sad but there are thousands more like them. I’m talking about the idiot who ignored the data he was given about the odds this thing would implode, fired the guy who told him about it, then kept selling tickets.

Not every one of those guys will want to be on board personally, and maybe the inevitable lawsuits will help them see safety as something other than waste.

Maybe? There are still idiot CEOs who just don’t care. I am sure the execs here were well aware of potential litigation. They proceeded anyway, and suing them into oblivion to support 6 generations is just gross.

The execs were aware of the risks, proceeded anyway, four other people died as a result…and you think it’s the idea of suing the execs who stayed on dry land that is gross?

Do you represent one of these people already? That’s the only way I can make that make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Was the CEO in fact wealthy? He sounded like a dreamer bordering on a con man and I don’t think had ever hit any home runs? Sounds like his wife’s family had money a few generations ago but no evidence they did now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

I’m not talking about the people who were customers. Sad but there are thousands more like them. I’m talking about the idiot who ignored the data he was given about the odds this thing would implode, fired the guy who told him about it, then kept selling tickets.

Not every one of those guys will want to be on board personally, and maybe the inevitable lawsuits will help them see safety as something other than waste.

Maybe? There are still idiot CEOs who just don’t care. I am sure the execs here were well aware of potential litigation. They proceeded anyway, and suing them into oblivion to support 6 generations is just gross.

The execs were aware of the risks, proceeded anyway, four other people died as a result…and you think it’s the idea of suing the execs who stayed on dry land that is gross?

Do you represent one of these people already? That’s the only way I can make that make sense.

I think people need to take personal responsibility. It’s always someone else’s fault, maybe just refuse to take a trip 2 miles deep into the North Atlantic. That was a choice they made. And they were well aware of the risks. They should have paid $1mil/ticket, you get what you pay for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An implosion would be the most merciful outcome for those unfortunate souls.

I am pretty sure they knew they were likely going to die soon because the French explorer on board was very knowledgeable and once they started descending too fast, they must have been aware they had a problem. I watched a video of him discussing getting stuck so deep in the ocean and how death from hypothermia is sort of gentle because you slowly fall asleep and don’t suffer. So he knew the possibilities and the risk.

The death itself was instant, but the minutes or hour leading to it must have been agony. Though I hope he/they did not share the knowledge out loud out of respect for the teenager. I know I wouldn’t have said anything, and anyway hope always dies last and I bet at least some of them were hoping for a miracle.

I am shocked the French expert even boarded that shoddy thing given his experience in much more state-of-the-art prior missions. I guess he was just a Titanic junkie and couldn’t resist one more dive especially given his advanced age. I feel mostly sorry for the loss of his life and that of the teenager.

These two are the ones who get me. I don't get how the experienced diver didn't see major red flags having been on so many prior trips. And the poor kid fighting fear to give his dad a good Father's Day. The others I get, but the ACTUAL explorer going down in this tin can? WTF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m reallllllyyyy annoyed that we as tax payers will be finding this rescue of irresponsible billionaires. I feel the same way about people who refuse to leave in wildfires and hurricanes. Why do we have to pay for you to be dumb? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I feel awful for the 19 year old who according to his aunt didn’t even want to go on this trip, but only did it for his father. Everyone else should have known better, because they were warned by all the experts in the field, but no. They knew better. Well, I guess not, and we get this bill!

I think these are two vastly different things. I don't like tax payers funding billionaire rescue, but if you look at things like wildfires and hurricanes, it's a vastly different population being rescued. Often it is old and poor people who can't afford to just flee who settle in place and hope for the best, not people with unlimited resources to leave. Basically: a lot of them probably would leave if they could, but they don't have the funds. Look at Katrina for that. I wouldn't say they, "refused" to leave, but absent funding that was the reality and they bore the brunt of that suffering.

TOTALLY different than billionaire yahoos chasing an adrenaline fix.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

I’m not talking about the people who were customers. Sad but there are thousands more like them. I’m talking about the idiot who ignored the data he was given about the odds this thing would implode, fired the guy who told him about it, then kept selling tickets.

Not every one of those guys will want to be on board personally, and maybe the inevitable lawsuits will help them see safety as something other than waste.

Maybe? There are still idiot CEOs who just don’t care. I am sure the execs here were well aware of potential litigation. They proceeded anyway, and suing them into oblivion to support 6 generations is just gross.

The execs were aware of the risks, proceeded anyway, four other people died as a result…and you think it’s the idea of suing the execs who stayed on dry land that is gross?

Do you represent one of these people already? That’s the only way I can make that make sense.

I think people need to take personal responsibility. It’s always someone else’s fault, maybe just refuse to take a trip 2 miles deep into the North Atlantic. That was a choice they made. And they were well aware of the risks. They should have paid $1mil/ticket, you get what you pay for.

The previous expedition had been successful. Other submersible Titanic expeditions have been aborted but none fatal. I think people tend to go in what the experts tell them and if there were fatalities in the past. I went to White Island with my family two weeks before an eruption. We were told there had never been a fatality from an eruption, just a landslide that had buried some miners many years ago. Would we go now if they resumed tours? No way.