Yes if you watch the YouTube expert someone linked up thread, helo made sudden changes at last second. It was flying at 200 feet before but then suddenly rose to 350-400. It also turned sharply right. |
Trump spent two minutes on plane crash and condolences and 38 minutes blaming Obama and Biden! |
All complex systems operate in a partially failed state due to redundancies that tolerate the existing failures. Eventually those existing failures will line up, resulting in a catastrophic failure. There's no single point of failure. https://how.complexsystems.fail/ |
He didn't sound distracted. He checked on the helicopter multiple times. A helicopter can stop in midair, change direction very quickly. The ATC radioed the helicopter to confirm visual separation as the aircraft got closer together and got confirmation. And then as they both banked west, the ATC *again* radioed the helicopter and this time gave it a direction to go behind the plane (something the ATC should actually not be required to do at that point because the helicopter has twice told the tower that they are taking responsibility for maintaining distance). I get that the ATC was doing two jobs and maybe if there were two ATC in that moment with one focused on helicopters, this would not have happened. However, maybe it still would have. The ATC didn't ignore the helicopter -- he was in constant communication and alerting the helicopter specifically to the plane in question. The helicopter also has radar on board. You'd think once they requested visual separation, someone on the helicopter would have checked radar at least once and immediately seen that the plane in question was significantly closer than they seemed to think (perhaps because the visual they were identifying was actually the larger jet behind the one question). If there had been an ATC dedicated to helicopters that night, maybe that ATC would have recognized that the helicopter had misunderstood and provided greater detail about where the plane was or asked the helicopter to identify on radar or something. In other words, an ATC dedicated to the helicopter might have been able to correct the helicopter's error. But ATC are not babysitters (even though that's how they are treated often). No ATC should have to do anymore than this one did in this situation, if the pilots in question are doing their jobs. The irony here is that if there were another ATC on duty that night, or even if this ATC had been able to better alert the helicopter to their error and prevent the crash, no one would ever know. The ATC would have saved 67 lives and no one would know. Think about how many times ATC at National have done exactly that, possibly for flights you've been on, and you were none the wiser. |
What dash cam? The Kennedy rooftop one (or wherever it’s from) has the angle of the RJ flying right at it so can’t gauge its speeds, and the helicopter coming out from behind Haines point going left to right. So of course it looks “faster” than something coming straight at you. |
+100. Every single air traffic controller at National who got up and went to work today is a hero. The ATCs on duty Weds night are likely out on medical leave because of how horrific the crash was for them emotionally. They may never work again as ATC. |
The only question left is if Trump is a sociopath or a psychopath. I say sociopath as I don't think he is calculating enough to be a psychopath but I could be wrong. |
So, criticism of federal employees is torture? |
Was that a typo though? Thirty minutes is a long distance in aviation terms. |
You call what Trump has been doing "criticism"? Gtfooh. He hasn't been criticizing federal workers. That would require him to actually say what they have been doing to deserve to be fired. He has been abusing them. |
What is we built the cockpit out of glass? /s |
Ok. I stand corrected. Two major violations on the part of military helicopter. |
Actually we do know because LiveATC captures these situationa All.The.Time. Controllers are constantly deconflicting traffic (sometimes because they conflict them accidentally). There are some great youtube channels showing this - VasAviation is probably the best. Last year a southwest plane came close to hitting the tower at LaGuardia. At DCA just a few months ago ATC put 2 jets on a collision course (one landing while other lined up) and ATC deconflicted. In San Diego a southwest jet almost landed atop a private jet. The takeoff plate from Teterboro in NJ (the private jet airport) is in the direct path of the approach plate for Newark, and there have been several near collisions. Aviation is one of the few industries where we demand a 0% failure rate. And we get it most of the time. But, ATC is human, pilots are human, the systems in place fail. It's been decades since the last US air disaster, an amazing run that was always going to come to an end. But to have seen this specific issue actually happen, this is something if you speak to anyone in the aviation business, we all knew was going to happen in some way shape or form. |
Trump isn’t to blame, Biden isn’t to blame. Neither is ATC. They followed protocol, even if short staffed, they still did exactly what they should have done. I don’t see how the finger can be pointed anywhere other than directly at the helicopter at this point. |
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