Anonymous wrote:If you do a search on Ashley Greenbriar Fairfax you can see many great houses with additions and modifications. Those homes are quite different in expansion potential than typical Arlington teardowns.
One neighborhood in ARL has a large number of teardowns and renos with additions. Teardowns were 2-3 bd and 1 -2 baths. 1200 sq feet or less. No garage. Renos changed rooflines, kept garages. Large new builds on teardown sites either did attached narrow lot line with 1 car garage or a free standing.
I don't see a lot of Ashley models with significant modifications. The most significant one is 4214 Plaza Ln. I think that's pretty well done, but those bedrooms are awfully small. The dormers help, but reallocating space to upstairs from one bedroom to create a hallway makes both original rooms quite small.
It sounds as though people who are family
I mean, how big does a bedroom need to be? Most people just sleep in their bedrooms but spend most of their day in the rest of the house.
Think about the situation here. There won't be as many living spaces relative to residents as a typical house. The bigger the household, the more people will use their bedrooms- especially among teens and adults. You're generally going to want room for a bed (full or queen for the adults), nightstand, desk, 1-2 dressers, TV, and probably a chair of some sort. At least two of these rooms need to be suitable for a pair of adults.
The bedrooms in 4214 Plaza Ln don't end up very functional for anyone but kids.
They are adding a ton of space to what is already and expanded house. Again, how big does a bedroom really need to be? It’s not like people sit around all day in their bedroom.
You're being deliberately obtuse. Even someone that grew up in Ashley home acknowledged they would want more space.
You misunderstand. The question is why do the bedrooms in the addition need to be so big. Someone up thread said that the bedrooms in the Ashley models with additions were not big enough, so just asking why not?
The largest bedroom is upstairs and has sloped ceilings. One bedroom on the main level is moderate- 12x11. The other two bedrooms are quite small- basically just enough for a twin bed and dresser.
If you only want a single stairwell between the house and addition, you'll need to add a hallway through the middle of the large upstairs bedroom.
Typically, secondary bedrooms in homes are meant for kids. Particularly in children older homes, they're expecting a twin bed and not much else. That's not the situation for this family, where there will be several adults. That means they'll need more and larger bedrooms. Adults generally don't want to share bathrooms with a bunch of other people, too, which is why I'm not surprised there are a bunch of bathrooms in this. New homes even expecting traditional families tend to have a high bathroom to bedroom ratio.
Again, you seem confused. The question is why the bedrooms in the addition need to be so big. It’s not like people live in their bedrooms. People spend must of the day in the other parts of a house, not sitting around in their bedrooms.
There are two couples and two children living in this house. There will be six new bathrooms plus two and a half bathrooms in the original section of the house. That’s 8 1/2 bathrooms for four adults and two young children.
Your mistaken. When you live in a crowded house, you spend more time on your bedroom. Furthermore, adult bedrooms are typically bigger than children's bedrooms, for a variety of reasons.
We don't know how many bedrooms and bathrooms the house will have after this addition and the associated renovations.
Also, I don't know how many adults will be there. Is Mike the one with kids, or is his sibling moving in with their family? And I think his brother is already living there.
On one of the videos, Mike said that there was one elderly couple, he and his wife and their two young children living in the house. I don’t believe there was a mention of a brother or any other sibling with a family.
If people have formed one household together, they will spend time in the common areas in the house, not all apart in separate bedrooms all day long. It’s not like people are living in their bedrooms all day, right?
I really don't understand why you seem to think people don't spend time in bedrooms. Sure, if you have a small family and a big house, people can spread out in different living areas. But if you have a small house and a big family, people go to bedrooms. Didn't you ever have teenagers? Or did you just have a large house?
I'm pretty sure Mike's brother is already living there. I thought there was another sibling, too, that was planning to move in.
Most people don’t spend their entire day in their bedroom every day. You need room for a bed and a dresser or two, but it’s a sleeping and dressing space, not a living space.
If the adults are planning to spend so much time in their bedrooms, what’s the point of even living together in this “one household” situation? They could be living in separate houses/apartments and see each other the same amount of time if the plan is for everyone to hang out in their individual bedrooms.
Teenagers might study and do homework in their rooms, but they are also busy and involved in a lot of activities outside the house. So they actually don’t spend that much time in their rooms.
You think the only reason people live in the same household is to spend nearly all of their waking hours together? Really? You can't think of any other reasons?
I obviously don't know you. I don't know your current situation, or if you have or had a family. I don't know what kind of environment you grew up in. I don't know if you really believe what you're saying, if you're just trolling, or if your hatred of this addition is clouding your thoughts.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. How you choose to live your life, or claim to live your life, isn't how other people have to live their lives.
I grew up in a family with my grandparents living with us for several years- from the time when they could no longer be independent until they died. While they were still relatively healthy, my grandparents spent their time out in the common areas of the house. They never sat around in their bedroom all day.
Families that combine several related nuclear families live together because they love each other and enjoy each other’s company. It’s not like they’re totally unrelated people renting bedrooms in a house where it would make sense for them to spend all their time separately in their own rooms, where it would make sense to have a bigger room because that’s where they’re actually living.
That’s not the case here, where everyone is close family. They won’t be spending all their time in their rooms. They’re not strangers, they’re family. Families cook together, talk together, help kids with homework, maybe watch tv or listen to music. Why live in the same house together if the plan is to spend all their time in separate bedrooms, never interacting?
You don't think the ability to combine finances and support each other's personal and familial needs is another reason people live together?
Wow.
Sooo, you think families that combine finances don’t love each other and enjoy each other’s company?
Wow.
Love doesn't mean spending every waking hour together.
Look at what modern homes have. Large bedrooms, more living spaces, and more bathrooms. It isn't unreasonable for large families to want more space.
So, no one said they spend every waking hour together. What people are say is that most people don’t spend most of their waking hours in their bedrooms. Most people spend time with the people they live with. Why live with people if you don’t plan to ever spend time with them?
Again, this just demonstrates how oblivious or obtuse you are. "Spending more time together" isn't the reason people move in. It's usually money. And when it isn't money, it is usually caregiving.
If you're not going to spend all your time together when you're in the house, when you need other places to go. In a smaller family, you might have multiple living spaces to allow people to spread out to do separate activities. As the number of people increases, isn't practical to correspondingly increase the number of living areas, so the bedrooms are the only practical option.
If people are moving in together just to save money and they don’t even like each other, that is just silly. Is everybody going to move in and stay in their separate bedrooms and avoid each other? How will they eat- won’t they have to use the same kitchen?
When I graduated from college, I had friends who lived in group houses. In one, everyone knew each other from college and were all friends. They cooked together and hung out together. They saved money by renting separate bedrooms but they used the common areas regularly.
In another, people rented rooms in a house and they were all strangers to each other. They all stayed in their own rooms and didn’t spend a lot of time interacting. It sounds as though your family will be moving in, but staying in their separate rooms the way strangers would. What’s the point of that?
You fail to understand that if you don't *always* intend to use the shared living spaces, then the bedrooms need to be functional, including going of sufficient size.
At this point you just seem to be trolling. This isn't that complicated, so presumably you know this. I don't understand what sort of weird satisfaction you get by being obtuse.
Is the plan to move in family members who don’t know each other or like each other well enough to interact regularly? The plan is for people to spend most of their time in their own bedrooms, separate from each other? That’s how your family treats other family members?
Honestly, that is an unusual way for a family to operate. What’s the point of living together if it’s only to save money but you don’t enjoy each other’s company? That doesn’t sound like a harmonious family relationship.
DP. Omg who cares! This tangent is completely irrelevant and going in circles.
This poster is trying to get him to admit that these "bedrooms" are more akin to "units" which he will never do. He will insist to his dying day that he built this enormous, multiple bed and bath structure with two flights of stairs for Grandma and Grandpa.
Exactly. It's clear what his intent was.
Why wouldn't grandma and grandpa use the existing first floor room with the other family members using the new bedrooms in the addition?
They will! As someone said upthread, renting the units is not a fear anyone needs to worry about because of the shining beacon! So why worry? Because the builder has been underhanded over and over?
Okay, I’ll bite. What the heck is a shining beacon? Where did this phrase come from?
I used it. It's an awfully conspicuous design. The idea that they're going to rent out rooms without other people noticing and reporting them to the county seems silly. Are people actually worried about that?
If the builder gets the special permit or variance, he will do as he pleases. Any attempts to further limit what he can do will be called racism.
Is that really what you think? That the county won't enforce the multi-family/rental laws? Is there any reason to think they don't enforce them?
Though, to be fair, that law seems to have racist underpinnings. Or at least classist. I lived much of my life in small college towns, which enforced these aggressively. In those cases, town residents made no attempt to hide their distain for college students. These weren't places where parking or public services were in short supply. They just didn't like college students. And since college students aren't a protected class, they didn't to come up with other explanations for why these laws were in place.
This looks pretty similar, except replace "college students" with "poors."
Regardless, my understanding is that legal basis for upholding these laws is quite strong.
I thought the Virginia house of delegates plans to eliminate single family home zoning this session.
There have been past attempts to introduce things like allowing multi-family homes in areas zoned for single
family, but I don't think there's a reason to think something like that will pass this year.
It's also most orthogonal to the situation that people here claim to be worried about. Renting out individual bedrooms isn't multi-family. At least, not as a building type, which is what such zoning reforms refer to. It would instead be a different use of a single family home- i.e., single room occupancy. Restrictions and requirements on uses would still stand.
So, you couldn't just build extra bedrooms and rent them out. But maybe you could build studio apartments (with their own kitchens and bathrooms), and rent those out.
All you need to do is add a microwave and a small fridge and you essentially have a studio apartment.
Do you really believe that? Because it isn't true.
Not a legal one, but I do agree with this poster.
Exactly. I knew people in college and just out of college who rented rooms like this. They basically lived in the bedroom.
I don't understand the point/relevance. If you're already starting from the position that people will break the law, then what does it matter what the law says? Whether it is SRO, multi-family dwellings created and rented without permits, or unauthorized short-term rentals, there are always going to be some people who try to fly under the radar and not get caught.
And building a conspicuous and controversial addition isn't how you fly under the radar.
I don't know what Mike's plans are. There's been so many claims made regarding who is living there now, who is expected to live there in the future, how many rooms are in the addition, etc. Honestly, at this point I can't cleanly separate what is truly known as fact, what is being inferred, and what is wild speculation/FUD.
But, the claimed fears regarding room rentals seem both overblown and non-credible to me. I find it hard to believe that they'd bring in strangers to share the same space as their kids and elderly parents.
They will be co-ethnic strangers. I work with a lot of foreigners who live in places like this. They share a house or even a bedroom with a total stranger from their home country. Higher-trust societies can do things like this.
When they live in a million-dollar home? Perhaps it happens, but it doesn't seem likely.
Million dollar home isn’t a meaningful distinction in Northern Virginia. The median sales price for a single family home in Fairfax county is 950k.
And among those, do you think it is common for multigenerational families to rent out bedrooms to strangers who would share living areas? I highly doubt it.
It probably depends on whether they have some extra bedrooms with their own baths that are big enough to have a “mini-kitchenette.” Bonus points if they can have access to a door that doesn’t require them to go through the family living spaces.
Which they do
Doesn't look like it. Back door into the new kitchen. And new front door off the patio. There aren't distinct spaces and separate entrances.
You don’t really need completely distinct spaces and separate entrances for it to work to rent out extra bedrooms, that’s just a nice extra.
OTOH this set up will make it easier for the homeowner/landlord to corner them coming and going to demand rent. Way to think ahead!
Anonymous wrote:If you do a search on Ashley Greenbriar Fairfax you can see many great houses with additions and modifications. Those homes are quite different in expansion potential than typical Arlington teardowns.
One neighborhood in ARL has a large number of teardowns and renos with additions. Teardowns were 2-3 bd and 1 -2 baths. 1200 sq feet or less. No garage. Renos changed rooflines, kept garages. Large new builds on teardown sites either did attached narrow lot line with 1 car garage or a free standing.
I don't see a lot of Ashley models with significant modifications. The most significant one is 4214 Plaza Ln. I think that's pretty well done, but those bedrooms are awfully small. The dormers help, but reallocating space to upstairs from one bedroom to create a hallway makes both original rooms quite small.
It sounds as though people who are family
I mean, how big does a bedroom need to be? Most people just sleep in their bedrooms but spend most of their day in the rest of the house.
Think about the situation here. There won't be as many living spaces relative to residents as a typical house. The bigger the household, the more people will use their bedrooms- especially among teens and adults. You're generally going to want room for a bed (full or queen for the adults), nightstand, desk, 1-2 dressers, TV, and probably a chair of some sort. At least two of these rooms need to be suitable for a pair of adults.
The bedrooms in 4214 Plaza Ln don't end up very functional for anyone but kids.
They are adding a ton of space to what is already and expanded house. Again, how big does a bedroom really need to be? It’s not like people sit around all day in their bedroom.
You're being deliberately obtuse. Even someone that grew up in Ashley home acknowledged they would want more space.
You misunderstand. The question is why do the bedrooms in the addition need to be so big. Someone up thread said that the bedrooms in the Ashley models with additions were not big enough, so just asking why not?
The largest bedroom is upstairs and has sloped ceilings. One bedroom on the main level is moderate- 12x11. The other two bedrooms are quite small- basically just enough for a twin bed and dresser.
If you only want a single stairwell between the house and addition, you'll need to add a hallway through the middle of the large upstairs bedroom.
Typically, secondary bedrooms in homes are meant for kids. Particularly in children older homes, they're expecting a twin bed and not much else. That's not the situation for this family, where there will be several adults. That means they'll need more and larger bedrooms. Adults generally don't want to share bathrooms with a bunch of other people, too, which is why I'm not surprised there are a bunch of bathrooms in this. New homes even expecting traditional families tend to have a high bathroom to bedroom ratio.
Again, you seem confused. The question is why the bedrooms in the addition need to be so big. It’s not like people live in their bedrooms. People spend must of the day in the other parts of a house, not sitting around in their bedrooms.
There are two couples and two children living in this house. There will be six new bathrooms plus two and a half bathrooms in the original section of the house. That’s 8 1/2 bathrooms for four adults and two young children.
Your mistaken. When you live in a crowded house, you spend more time on your bedroom. Furthermore, adult bedrooms are typically bigger than children's bedrooms, for a variety of reasons.
We don't know how many bedrooms and bathrooms the house will have after this addition and the associated renovations.
Also, I don't know how many adults will be there. Is Mike the one with kids, or is his sibling moving in with their family? And I think his brother is already living there.
On one of the videos, Mike said that there was one elderly couple, he and his wife and their two young children living in the house. I don’t believe there was a mention of a brother or any other sibling with a family.
If people have formed one household together, they will spend time in the common areas in the house, not all apart in separate bedrooms all day long. It’s not like people are living in their bedrooms all day, right?
I really don't understand why you seem to think people don't spend time in bedrooms. Sure, if you have a small family and a big house, people can spread out in different living areas. But if you have a small house and a big family, people go to bedrooms. Didn't you ever have teenagers? Or did you just have a large house?
I'm pretty sure Mike's brother is already living there. I thought there was another sibling, too, that was planning to move in.
Most people don’t spend their entire day in their bedroom every day. You need room for a bed and a dresser or two, but it’s a sleeping and dressing space, not a living space.
If the adults are planning to spend so much time in their bedrooms, what’s the point of even living together in this “one household” situation? They could be living in separate houses/apartments and see each other the same amount of time if the plan is for everyone to hang out in their individual bedrooms.
Teenagers might study and do homework in their rooms, but they are also busy and involved in a lot of activities outside the house. So they actually don’t spend that much time in their rooms.
You think the only reason people live in the same household is to spend nearly all of their waking hours together? Really? You can't think of any other reasons?
I obviously don't know you. I don't know your current situation, or if you have or had a family. I don't know what kind of environment you grew up in. I don't know if you really believe what you're saying, if you're just trolling, or if your hatred of this addition is clouding your thoughts.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. How you choose to live your life, or claim to live your life, isn't how other people have to live their lives.
I grew up in a family with my grandparents living with us for several years- from the time when they could no longer be independent until they died. While they were still relatively healthy, my grandparents spent their time out in the common areas of the house. They never sat around in their bedroom all day.
Families that combine several related nuclear families live together because they love each other and enjoy each other’s company. It’s not like they’re totally unrelated people renting bedrooms in a house where it would make sense for them to spend all their time separately in their own rooms, where it would make sense to have a bigger room because that’s where they’re actually living.
That’s not the case here, where everyone is close family. They won’t be spending all their time in their rooms. They’re not strangers, they’re family. Families cook together, talk together, help kids with homework, maybe watch tv or listen to music. Why live in the same house together if the plan is to spend all their time in separate bedrooms, never interacting?
You don't think the ability to combine finances and support each other's personal and familial needs is another reason people live together?
Wow.
Sooo, you think families that combine finances don’t love each other and enjoy each other’s company?
Wow.
Love doesn't mean spending every waking hour together.
Look at what modern homes have. Large bedrooms, more living spaces, and more bathrooms. It isn't unreasonable for large families to want more space.
So, no one said they spend every waking hour together. What people are say is that most people don’t spend most of their waking hours in their bedrooms. Most people spend time with the people they live with. Why live with people if you don’t plan to ever spend time with them?
Again, this just demonstrates how oblivious or obtuse you are. "Spending more time together" isn't the reason people move in. It's usually money. And when it isn't money, it is usually caregiving.
If you're not going to spend all your time together when you're in the house, when you need other places to go. In a smaller family, you might have multiple living spaces to allow people to spread out to do separate activities. As the number of people increases, isn't practical to correspondingly increase the number of living areas, so the bedrooms are the only practical option.
If people are moving in together just to save money and they don’t even like each other, that is just silly. Is everybody going to move in and stay in their separate bedrooms and avoid each other? How will they eat- won’t they have to use the same kitchen?
When I graduated from college, I had friends who lived in group houses. In one, everyone knew each other from college and were all friends. They cooked together and hung out together. They saved money by renting separate bedrooms but they used the common areas regularly.
In another, people rented rooms in a house and they were all strangers to each other. They all stayed in their own rooms and didn’t spend a lot of time interacting. It sounds as though your family will be moving in, but staying in their separate rooms the way strangers would. What’s the point of that?
You fail to understand that if you don't *always* intend to use the shared living spaces, then the bedrooms need to be functional, including going of sufficient size.
At this point you just seem to be trolling. This isn't that complicated, so presumably you know this. I don't understand what sort of weird satisfaction you get by being obtuse.
Is the plan to move in family members who don’t know each other or like each other well enough to interact regularly? The plan is for people to spend most of their time in their own bedrooms, separate from each other? That’s how your family treats other family members?
Honestly, that is an unusual way for a family to operate. What’s the point of living together if it’s only to save money but you don’t enjoy each other’s company? That doesn’t sound like a harmonious family relationship.
DP. Omg who cares! This tangent is completely irrelevant and going in circles.
This poster is trying to get him to admit that these "bedrooms" are more akin to "units" which he will never do. He will insist to his dying day that he built this enormous, multiple bed and bath structure with two flights of stairs for Grandma and Grandpa.
Exactly. It's clear what his intent was.
Why wouldn't grandma and grandpa use the existing first floor room with the other family members using the new bedrooms in the addition?
They will! As someone said upthread, renting the units is not a fear anyone needs to worry about because of the shining beacon! So why worry? Because the builder has been underhanded over and over?
Okay, I’ll bite. What the heck is a shining beacon? Where did this phrase come from?
I used it. It's an awfully conspicuous design. The idea that they're going to rent out rooms without other people noticing and reporting them to the county seems silly. Are people actually worried about that?
If the builder gets the special permit or variance, he will do as he pleases. Any attempts to further limit what he can do will be called racism.
Is that really what you think? That the county won't enforce the multi-family/rental laws? Is there any reason to think they don't enforce them?
Though, to be fair, that law seems to have racist underpinnings. Or at least classist. I lived much of my life in small college towns, which enforced these aggressively. In those cases, town residents made no attempt to hide their distain for college students. These weren't places where parking or public services were in short supply. They just didn't like college students. And since college students aren't a protected class, they didn't to come up with other explanations for why these laws were in place.
This looks pretty similar, except replace "college students" with "poors."
Regardless, my understanding is that legal basis for upholding these laws is quite strong.
I thought the Virginia house of delegates plans to eliminate single family home zoning this session.
There have been past attempts to introduce things like allowing multi-family homes in areas zoned for single
family, but I don't think there's a reason to think something like that will pass this year.
It's also most orthogonal to the situation that people here claim to be worried about. Renting out individual bedrooms isn't multi-family. At least, not as a building type, which is what such zoning reforms refer to. It would instead be a different use of a single family home- i.e., single room occupancy. Restrictions and requirements on uses would still stand.
So, you couldn't just build extra bedrooms and rent them out. But maybe you could build studio apartments (with their own kitchens and bathrooms), and rent those out.
All you need to do is add a microwave and a small fridge and you essentially have a studio apartment.
Do you really believe that? Because it isn't true.
Not a legal one, but I do agree with this poster.
Exactly. I knew people in college and just out of college who rented rooms like this. They basically lived in the bedroom.
I don't understand the point/relevance. If you're already starting from the position that people will break the law, then what does it matter what the law says? Whether it is SRO, multi-family dwellings created and rented without permits, or unauthorized short-term rentals, there are always going to be some people who try to fly under the radar and not get caught.
And building a conspicuous and controversial addition isn't how you fly under the radar.
I don't know what Mike's plans are. There's been so many claims made regarding who is living there now, who is expected to live there in the future, how many rooms are in the addition, etc. Honestly, at this point I can't cleanly separate what is truly known as fact, what is being inferred, and what is wild speculation/FUD.
But, the claimed fears regarding room rentals seem both overblown and non-credible to me. I find it hard to believe that they'd bring in strangers to share the same space as their kids and elderly parents.
They will be co-ethnic strangers. I work with a lot of foreigners who live in places like this. They share a house or even a bedroom with a total stranger from their home country. Higher-trust societies can do things like this.
When they live in a million-dollar home? Perhaps it happens, but it doesn't seem likely.
Million dollar home isn’t a meaningful distinction in Northern Virginia. The median sales price for a single family home in Fairfax county is 950k.
And among those, do you think it is common for multigenerational families to rent out bedrooms to strangers who would share living areas? I highly doubt it.
It probably depends on whether they have some extra bedrooms with their own baths that are big enough to have a “mini-kitchenette.” Bonus points if they can have access to a door that doesn’t require them to go through the family living spaces.
Which they do
Doesn't look like it. Back door into the new kitchen. And new front door off the patio. There aren't distinct spaces and separate entrances.
You don’t really need completely distinct spaces and separate entrances for it to work to rent out extra bedrooms, that’s just a nice extra.
People with enough money to do a $300k+ addition probably aren't going to be excited to put strangers in the same space as their young kids, mentally-disturbed brother, and elderly parents
Why do you think that?
They’ve made a big deal about how they can’t afford to make the addition more consistent with the rest of the neighborhood, so maybe they might want to make some extra money.
Then watch their house if you're able to remember which one is which.
Or give him the other $600k that would be necessary to build it the way you want.
That is irrelevant. Their addition is illegal. It doesn’t follow setbacks or the plans they submitted to county.
If only the county had thought about the potential for mistakes to happen and create processes for modifications and exceptions...
Anonymous wrote:If you do a search on Ashley Greenbriar Fairfax you can see many great houses with additions and modifications. Those homes are quite different in expansion potential than typical Arlington teardowns.
One neighborhood in ARL has a large number of teardowns and renos with additions. Teardowns were 2-3 bd and 1 -2 baths. 1200 sq feet or less. No garage. Renos changed rooflines, kept garages. Large new builds on teardown sites either did attached narrow lot line with 1 car garage or a free standing.
I don't see a lot of Ashley models with significant modifications. The most significant one is 4214 Plaza Ln. I think that's pretty well done, but those bedrooms are awfully small. The dormers help, but reallocating space to upstairs from one bedroom to create a hallway makes both original rooms quite small.
It sounds as though people who are family
I mean, how big does a bedroom need to be? Most people just sleep in their bedrooms but spend most of their day in the rest of the house.
Think about the situation here. There won't be as many living spaces relative to residents as a typical house. The bigger the household, the more people will use their bedrooms- especially among teens and adults. You're generally going to want room for a bed (full or queen for the adults), nightstand, desk, 1-2 dressers, TV, and probably a chair of some sort. At least two of these rooms need to be suitable for a pair of adults.
The bedrooms in 4214 Plaza Ln don't end up very functional for anyone but kids.
They are adding a ton of space to what is already and expanded house. Again, how big does a bedroom really need to be? It’s not like people sit around all day in their bedroom.
You're being deliberately obtuse. Even someone that grew up in Ashley home acknowledged they would want more space.
You misunderstand. The question is why do the bedrooms in the addition need to be so big. Someone up thread said that the bedrooms in the Ashley models with additions were not big enough, so just asking why not?
The largest bedroom is upstairs and has sloped ceilings. One bedroom on the main level is moderate- 12x11. The other two bedrooms are quite small- basically just enough for a twin bed and dresser.
If you only want a single stairwell between the house and addition, you'll need to add a hallway through the middle of the large upstairs bedroom.
Typically, secondary bedrooms in homes are meant for kids. Particularly in children older homes, they're expecting a twin bed and not much else. That's not the situation for this family, where there will be several adults. That means they'll need more and larger bedrooms. Adults generally don't want to share bathrooms with a bunch of other people, too, which is why I'm not surprised there are a bunch of bathrooms in this. New homes even expecting traditional families tend to have a high bathroom to bedroom ratio.
Again, you seem confused. The question is why the bedrooms in the addition need to be so big. It’s not like people live in their bedrooms. People spend must of the day in the other parts of a house, not sitting around in their bedrooms.
There are two couples and two children living in this house. There will be six new bathrooms plus two and a half bathrooms in the original section of the house. That’s 8 1/2 bathrooms for four adults and two young children.
Your mistaken. When you live in a crowded house, you spend more time on your bedroom. Furthermore, adult bedrooms are typically bigger than children's bedrooms, for a variety of reasons.
We don't know how many bedrooms and bathrooms the house will have after this addition and the associated renovations.
Also, I don't know how many adults will be there. Is Mike the one with kids, or is his sibling moving in with their family? And I think his brother is already living there.
On one of the videos, Mike said that there was one elderly couple, he and his wife and their two young children living in the house. I don’t believe there was a mention of a brother or any other sibling with a family.
If people have formed one household together, they will spend time in the common areas in the house, not all apart in separate bedrooms all day long. It’s not like people are living in their bedrooms all day, right?
I really don't understand why you seem to think people don't spend time in bedrooms. Sure, if you have a small family and a big house, people can spread out in different living areas. But if you have a small house and a big family, people go to bedrooms. Didn't you ever have teenagers? Or did you just have a large house?
I'm pretty sure Mike's brother is already living there. I thought there was another sibling, too, that was planning to move in.
Most people don’t spend their entire day in their bedroom every day. You need room for a bed and a dresser or two, but it’s a sleeping and dressing space, not a living space.
If the adults are planning to spend so much time in their bedrooms, what’s the point of even living together in this “one household” situation? They could be living in separate houses/apartments and see each other the same amount of time if the plan is for everyone to hang out in their individual bedrooms.
Teenagers might study and do homework in their rooms, but they are also busy and involved in a lot of activities outside the house. So they actually don’t spend that much time in their rooms.
You think the only reason people live in the same household is to spend nearly all of their waking hours together? Really? You can't think of any other reasons?
I obviously don't know you. I don't know your current situation, or if you have or had a family. I don't know what kind of environment you grew up in. I don't know if you really believe what you're saying, if you're just trolling, or if your hatred of this addition is clouding your thoughts.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. How you choose to live your life, or claim to live your life, isn't how other people have to live their lives.
I grew up in a family with my grandparents living with us for several years- from the time when they could no longer be independent until they died. While they were still relatively healthy, my grandparents spent their time out in the common areas of the house. They never sat around in their bedroom all day.
Families that combine several related nuclear families live together because they love each other and enjoy each other’s company. It’s not like they’re totally unrelated people renting bedrooms in a house where it would make sense for them to spend all their time separately in their own rooms, where it would make sense to have a bigger room because that’s where they’re actually living.
That’s not the case here, where everyone is close family. They won’t be spending all their time in their rooms. They’re not strangers, they’re family. Families cook together, talk together, help kids with homework, maybe watch tv or listen to music. Why live in the same house together if the plan is to spend all their time in separate bedrooms, never interacting?
You don't think the ability to combine finances and support each other's personal and familial needs is another reason people live together?
Wow.
Sooo, you think families that combine finances don’t love each other and enjoy each other’s company?
Wow.
Love doesn't mean spending every waking hour together.
Look at what modern homes have. Large bedrooms, more living spaces, and more bathrooms. It isn't unreasonable for large families to want more space.
So, no one said they spend every waking hour together. What people are say is that most people don’t spend most of their waking hours in their bedrooms. Most people spend time with the people they live with. Why live with people if you don’t plan to ever spend time with them?
Again, this just demonstrates how oblivious or obtuse you are. "Spending more time together" isn't the reason people move in. It's usually money. And when it isn't money, it is usually caregiving.
If you're not going to spend all your time together when you're in the house, when you need other places to go. In a smaller family, you might have multiple living spaces to allow people to spread out to do separate activities. As the number of people increases, isn't practical to correspondingly increase the number of living areas, so the bedrooms are the only practical option.
If people are moving in together just to save money and they don’t even like each other, that is just silly. Is everybody going to move in and stay in their separate bedrooms and avoid each other? How will they eat- won’t they have to use the same kitchen?
When I graduated from college, I had friends who lived in group houses. In one, everyone knew each other from college and were all friends. They cooked together and hung out together. They saved money by renting separate bedrooms but they used the common areas regularly.
In another, people rented rooms in a house and they were all strangers to each other. They all stayed in their own rooms and didn’t spend a lot of time interacting. It sounds as though your family will be moving in, but staying in their separate rooms the way strangers would. What’s the point of that?
You fail to understand that if you don't *always* intend to use the shared living spaces, then the bedrooms need to be functional, including going of sufficient size.
At this point you just seem to be trolling. This isn't that complicated, so presumably you know this. I don't understand what sort of weird satisfaction you get by being obtuse.
Is the plan to move in family members who don’t know each other or like each other well enough to interact regularly? The plan is for people to spend most of their time in their own bedrooms, separate from each other? That’s how your family treats other family members?
Honestly, that is an unusual way for a family to operate. What’s the point of living together if it’s only to save money but you don’t enjoy each other’s company? That doesn’t sound like a harmonious family relationship.
DP. Omg who cares! This tangent is completely irrelevant and going in circles.
This poster is trying to get him to admit that these "bedrooms" are more akin to "units" which he will never do. He will insist to his dying day that he built this enormous, multiple bed and bath structure with two flights of stairs for Grandma and Grandpa.
Exactly. It's clear what his intent was.
Why wouldn't grandma and grandpa use the existing first floor room with the other family members using the new bedrooms in the addition?
They will! As someone said upthread, renting the units is not a fear anyone needs to worry about because of the shining beacon! So why worry? Because the builder has been underhanded over and over?
Okay, I’ll bite. What the heck is a shining beacon? Where did this phrase come from?
I used it. It's an awfully conspicuous design. The idea that they're going to rent out rooms without other people noticing and reporting them to the county seems silly. Are people actually worried about that?
If the builder gets the special permit or variance, he will do as he pleases. Any attempts to further limit what he can do will be called racism.
Is that really what you think? That the county won't enforce the multi-family/rental laws? Is there any reason to think they don't enforce them?
Though, to be fair, that law seems to have racist underpinnings. Or at least classist. I lived much of my life in small college towns, which enforced these aggressively. In those cases, town residents made no attempt to hide their distain for college students. These weren't places where parking or public services were in short supply. They just didn't like college students. And since college students aren't a protected class, they didn't to come up with other explanations for why these laws were in place.
This looks pretty similar, except replace "college students" with "poors."
Regardless, my understanding is that legal basis for upholding these laws is quite strong.
I thought the Virginia house of delegates plans to eliminate single family home zoning this session.
There have been past attempts to introduce things like allowing multi-family homes in areas zoned for single
family, but I don't think there's a reason to think something like that will pass this year.
It's also most orthogonal to the situation that people here claim to be worried about. Renting out individual bedrooms isn't multi-family. At least, not as a building type, which is what such zoning reforms refer to. It would instead be a different use of a single family home- i.e., single room occupancy. Restrictions and requirements on uses would still stand.
So, you couldn't just build extra bedrooms and rent them out. But maybe you could build studio apartments (with their own kitchens and bathrooms), and rent those out.
All you need to do is add a microwave and a small fridge and you essentially have a studio apartment.
Do you really believe that? Because it isn't true.
Not a legal one, but I do agree with this poster.
Exactly. I knew people in college and just out of college who rented rooms like this. They basically lived in the bedroom.
I don't understand the point/relevance. If you're already starting from the position that people will break the law, then what does it matter what the law says? Whether it is SRO, multi-family dwellings created and rented without permits, or unauthorized short-term rentals, there are always going to be some people who try to fly under the radar and not get caught.
And building a conspicuous and controversial addition isn't how you fly under the radar.
I don't know what Mike's plans are. There's been so many claims made regarding who is living there now, who is expected to live there in the future, how many rooms are in the addition, etc. Honestly, at this point I can't cleanly separate what is truly known as fact, what is being inferred, and what is wild speculation/FUD.
But, the claimed fears regarding room rentals seem both overblown and non-credible to me. I find it hard to believe that they'd bring in strangers to share the same space as their kids and elderly parents.
They will be co-ethnic strangers. I work with a lot of foreigners who live in places like this. They share a house or even a bedroom with a total stranger from their home country. Higher-trust societies can do things like this.
When they live in a million-dollar home? Perhaps it happens, but it doesn't seem likely.
Million dollar home isn’t a meaningful distinction in Northern Virginia. The median sales price for a single family home in Fairfax county is 950k.
And among those, do you think it is common for multigenerational families to rent out bedrooms to strangers who would share living areas? I highly doubt it.
It probably depends on whether they have some extra bedrooms with their own baths that are big enough to have a “mini-kitchenette.” Bonus points if they can have access to a door that doesn’t require them to go through the family living spaces.
Which they do
Doesn't look like it. Back door into the new kitchen. And new front door off the patio. There aren't distinct spaces and separate entrances.
You don’t really need completely distinct spaces and separate entrances for it to work to rent out extra bedrooms, that’s just a nice extra.
People with enough money to do a $300k+ addition probably aren't going to be excited to put strangers in the same space as their young kids, mentally-disturbed brother, and elderly parents
Why do you think that?
They’ve made a big deal about how they can’t afford to make the addition more consistent with the rest of the neighborhood, so maybe they might want to make some extra money.
Then watch their house if you're able to remember which one is which.
Or give him the other $600k that would be necessary to build it the way you want.
That is irrelevant. Their addition is illegal. It doesn’t follow setbacks or the plans they submitted to county.
If only the county had thought about the potential for violations to happen and create processes for modifications and exceptions...
Anonymous wrote:If you do a search on Ashley Greenbriar Fairfax you can see many great houses with additions and modifications. Those homes are quite different in expansion potential than typical Arlington teardowns.
One neighborhood in ARL has a large number of teardowns and renos with additions. Teardowns were 2-3 bd and 1 -2 baths. 1200 sq feet or less. No garage. Renos changed rooflines, kept garages. Large new builds on teardown sites either did attached narrow lot line with 1 car garage or a free standing.
I don't see a lot of Ashley models with significant modifications. The most significant one is 4214 Plaza Ln. I think that's pretty well done, but those bedrooms are awfully small. The dormers help, but reallocating space to upstairs from one bedroom to create a hallway makes both original rooms quite small.
It sounds as though people who are family
I mean, how big does a bedroom need to be? Most people just sleep in their bedrooms but spend most of their day in the rest of the house.
Think about the situation here. There won't be as many living spaces relative to residents as a typical house. The bigger the household, the more people will use their bedrooms- especially among teens and adults. You're generally going to want room for a bed (full or queen for the adults), nightstand, desk, 1-2 dressers, TV, and probably a chair of some sort. At least two of these rooms need to be suitable for a pair of adults.
The bedrooms in 4214 Plaza Ln don't end up very functional for anyone but kids.
They are adding a ton of space to what is already and expanded house. Again, how big does a bedroom really need to be? It’s not like people sit around all day in their bedroom.
You're being deliberately obtuse. Even someone that grew up in Ashley home acknowledged they would want more space.
You misunderstand. The question is why do the bedrooms in the addition need to be so big. Someone up thread said that the bedrooms in the Ashley models with additions were not big enough, so just asking why not?
The largest bedroom is upstairs and has sloped ceilings. One bedroom on the main level is moderate- 12x11. The other two bedrooms are quite small- basically just enough for a twin bed and dresser.
If you only want a single stairwell between the house and addition, you'll need to add a hallway through the middle of the large upstairs bedroom.
Typically, secondary bedrooms in homes are meant for kids. Particularly in children older homes, they're expecting a twin bed and not much else. That's not the situation for this family, where there will be several adults. That means they'll need more and larger bedrooms. Adults generally don't want to share bathrooms with a bunch of other people, too, which is why I'm not surprised there are a bunch of bathrooms in this. New homes even expecting traditional families tend to have a high bathroom to bedroom ratio.
Again, you seem confused. The question is why the bedrooms in the addition need to be so big. It’s not like people live in their bedrooms. People spend must of the day in the other parts of a house, not sitting around in their bedrooms.
There are two couples and two children living in this house. There will be six new bathrooms plus two and a half bathrooms in the original section of the house. That’s 8 1/2 bathrooms for four adults and two young children.
Your mistaken. When you live in a crowded house, you spend more time on your bedroom. Furthermore, adult bedrooms are typically bigger than children's bedrooms, for a variety of reasons.
We don't know how many bedrooms and bathrooms the house will have after this addition and the associated renovations.
Also, I don't know how many adults will be there. Is Mike the one with kids, or is his sibling moving in with their family? And I think his brother is already living there.
On one of the videos, Mike said that there was one elderly couple, he and his wife and their two young children living in the house. I don’t believe there was a mention of a brother or any other sibling with a family.
If people have formed one household together, they will spend time in the common areas in the house, not all apart in separate bedrooms all day long. It’s not like people are living in their bedrooms all day, right?
I really don't understand why you seem to think people don't spend time in bedrooms. Sure, if you have a small family and a big house, people can spread out in different living areas. But if you have a small house and a big family, people go to bedrooms. Didn't you ever have teenagers? Or did you just have a large house?
I'm pretty sure Mike's brother is already living there. I thought there was another sibling, too, that was planning to move in.
Most people don’t spend their entire day in their bedroom every day. You need room for a bed and a dresser or two, but it’s a sleeping and dressing space, not a living space.
If the adults are planning to spend so much time in their bedrooms, what’s the point of even living together in this “one household” situation? They could be living in separate houses/apartments and see each other the same amount of time if the plan is for everyone to hang out in their individual bedrooms.
Teenagers might study and do homework in their rooms, but they are also busy and involved in a lot of activities outside the house. So they actually don’t spend that much time in their rooms.
You think the only reason people live in the same household is to spend nearly all of their waking hours together? Really? You can't think of any other reasons?
I obviously don't know you. I don't know your current situation, or if you have or had a family. I don't know what kind of environment you grew up in. I don't know if you really believe what you're saying, if you're just trolling, or if your hatred of this addition is clouding your thoughts.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. How you choose to live your life, or claim to live your life, isn't how other people have to live their lives.
I grew up in a family with my grandparents living with us for several years- from the time when they could no longer be independent until they died. While they were still relatively healthy, my grandparents spent their time out in the common areas of the house. They never sat around in their bedroom all day.
Families that combine several related nuclear families live together because they love each other and enjoy each other’s company. It’s not like they’re totally unrelated people renting bedrooms in a house where it would make sense for them to spend all their time separately in their own rooms, where it would make sense to have a bigger room because that’s where they’re actually living.
That’s not the case here, where everyone is close family. They won’t be spending all their time in their rooms. They’re not strangers, they’re family. Families cook together, talk together, help kids with homework, maybe watch tv or listen to music. Why live in the same house together if the plan is to spend all their time in separate bedrooms, never interacting?
You don't think the ability to combine finances and support each other's personal and familial needs is another reason people live together?
Wow.
Sooo, you think families that combine finances don’t love each other and enjoy each other’s company?
Wow.
Love doesn't mean spending every waking hour together.
Look at what modern homes have. Large bedrooms, more living spaces, and more bathrooms. It isn't unreasonable for large families to want more space.
So, no one said they spend every waking hour together. What people are say is that most people don’t spend most of their waking hours in their bedrooms. Most people spend time with the people they live with. Why live with people if you don’t plan to ever spend time with them?
Again, this just demonstrates how oblivious or obtuse you are. "Spending more time together" isn't the reason people move in. It's usually money. And when it isn't money, it is usually caregiving.
If you're not going to spend all your time together when you're in the house, when you need other places to go. In a smaller family, you might have multiple living spaces to allow people to spread out to do separate activities. As the number of people increases, isn't practical to correspondingly increase the number of living areas, so the bedrooms are the only practical option.
If people are moving in together just to save money and they don’t even like each other, that is just silly. Is everybody going to move in and stay in their separate bedrooms and avoid each other? How will they eat- won’t they have to use the same kitchen?
When I graduated from college, I had friends who lived in group houses. In one, everyone knew each other from college and were all friends. They cooked together and hung out together. They saved money by renting separate bedrooms but they used the common areas regularly.
In another, people rented rooms in a house and they were all strangers to each other. They all stayed in their own rooms and didn’t spend a lot of time interacting. It sounds as though your family will be moving in, but staying in their separate rooms the way strangers would. What’s the point of that?
You fail to understand that if you don't *always* intend to use the shared living spaces, then the bedrooms need to be functional, including going of sufficient size.
At this point you just seem to be trolling. This isn't that complicated, so presumably you know this. I don't understand what sort of weird satisfaction you get by being obtuse.
Is the plan to move in family members who don’t know each other or like each other well enough to interact regularly? The plan is for people to spend most of their time in their own bedrooms, separate from each other? That’s how your family treats other family members?
Honestly, that is an unusual way for a family to operate. What’s the point of living together if it’s only to save money but you don’t enjoy each other’s company? That doesn’t sound like a harmonious family relationship.
DP. Omg who cares! This tangent is completely irrelevant and going in circles.
This poster is trying to get him to admit that these "bedrooms" are more akin to "units" which he will never do. He will insist to his dying day that he built this enormous, multiple bed and bath structure with two flights of stairs for Grandma and Grandpa.
Exactly. It's clear what his intent was.
Why wouldn't grandma and grandpa use the existing first floor room with the other family members using the new bedrooms in the addition?
They will! As someone said upthread, renting the units is not a fear anyone needs to worry about because of the shining beacon! So why worry? Because the builder has been underhanded over and over?
Okay, I’ll bite. What the heck is a shining beacon? Where did this phrase come from?
I used it. It's an awfully conspicuous design. The idea that they're going to rent out rooms without other people noticing and reporting them to the county seems silly. Are people actually worried about that?
If the builder gets the special permit or variance, he will do as he pleases. Any attempts to further limit what he can do will be called racism.
Is that really what you think? That the county won't enforce the multi-family/rental laws? Is there any reason to think they don't enforce them?
Though, to be fair, that law seems to have racist underpinnings. Or at least classist. I lived much of my life in small college towns, which enforced these aggressively. In those cases, town residents made no attempt to hide their distain for college students. These weren't places where parking or public services were in short supply. They just didn't like college students. And since college students aren't a protected class, they didn't to come up with other explanations for why these laws were in place.
This looks pretty similar, except replace "college students" with "poors."
Regardless, my understanding is that legal basis for upholding these laws is quite strong.
I thought the Virginia house of delegates plans to eliminate single family home zoning this session.
There have been past attempts to introduce things like allowing multi-family homes in areas zoned for single
family, but I don't think there's a reason to think something like that will pass this year.
It's also most orthogonal to the situation that people here claim to be worried about. Renting out individual bedrooms isn't multi-family. At least, not as a building type, which is what such zoning reforms refer to. It would instead be a different use of a single family home- i.e., single room occupancy. Restrictions and requirements on uses would still stand.
So, you couldn't just build extra bedrooms and rent them out. But maybe you could build studio apartments (with their own kitchens and bathrooms), and rent those out.
All you need to do is add a microwave and a small fridge and you essentially have a studio apartment.
Do you really believe that? Because it isn't true.
Not a legal one, but I do agree with this poster.
Exactly. I knew people in college and just out of college who rented rooms like this. They basically lived in the bedroom.
I don't understand the point/relevance. If you're already starting from the position that people will break the law, then what does it matter what the law says? Whether it is SRO, multi-family dwellings created and rented without permits, or unauthorized short-term rentals, there are always going to be some people who try to fly under the radar and not get caught.
And building a conspicuous and controversial addition isn't how you fly under the radar.
I don't know what Mike's plans are. There's been so many claims made regarding who is living there now, who is expected to live there in the future, how many rooms are in the addition, etc. Honestly, at this point I can't cleanly separate what is truly known as fact, what is being inferred, and what is wild speculation/FUD.
But, the claimed fears regarding room rentals seem both overblown and non-credible to me. I find it hard to believe that they'd bring in strangers to share the same space as their kids and elderly parents.
They will be co-ethnic strangers. I work with a lot of foreigners who live in places like this. They share a house or even a bedroom with a total stranger from their home country. Higher-trust societies can do things like this.
When they live in a million-dollar home? Perhaps it happens, but it doesn't seem likely.
Million dollar home isn’t a meaningful distinction in Northern Virginia. The median sales price for a single family home in Fairfax county is 950k.
And among those, do you think it is common for multigenerational families to rent out bedrooms to strangers who would share living areas? I highly doubt it.
It probably depends on whether they have some extra bedrooms with their own baths that are big enough to have a “mini-kitchenette.” Bonus points if they can have access to a door that doesn’t require them to go through the family living spaces.
Which they do
Doesn't look like it. Back door into the new kitchen. And new front door off the patio. There aren't distinct spaces and separate entrances.
You don’t really need completely distinct spaces and separate entrances for it to work to rent out extra bedrooms, that’s just a nice extra.
People with enough money to do a $300k+ addition probably aren't going to be excited to put strangers in the same space as their young kids, mentally-disturbed brother, and elderly parents
Why do you think that?
They’ve made a big deal about how they can’t afford to make the addition more consistent with the rest of the neighborhood, so maybe they might want to make some extra money.
Then watch their house if you're able to remember which one is which.
Or give him the other $600k that would be necessary to build it the way you want.
That is irrelevant. Their addition is illegal. It doesn’t follow setbacks or the plans they submitted to county.
If only the county had thought about the potential for violations to happen and create processes for modifications and exceptions...
FTFY
Sure, that works too. If only they had processes for that...
Anonymous wrote:If you do a search on Ashley Greenbriar Fairfax you can see many great houses with additions and modifications. Those homes are quite different in expansion potential than typical Arlington teardowns.
One neighborhood in ARL has a large number of teardowns and renos with additions. Teardowns were 2-3 bd and 1 -2 baths. 1200 sq feet or less. No garage. Renos changed rooflines, kept garages. Large new builds on teardown sites either did attached narrow lot line with 1 car garage or a free standing.
I don't see a lot of Ashley models with significant modifications. The most significant one is 4214 Plaza Ln. I think that's pretty well done, but those bedrooms are awfully small. The dormers help, but reallocating space to upstairs from one bedroom to create a hallway makes both original rooms quite small.
It sounds as though people who are family
I mean, how big does a bedroom need to be? Most people just sleep in their bedrooms but spend most of their day in the rest of the house.
Think about the situation here. There won't be as many living spaces relative to residents as a typical house. The bigger the household, the more people will use their bedrooms- especially among teens and adults. You're generally going to want room for a bed (full or queen for the adults), nightstand, desk, 1-2 dressers, TV, and probably a chair of some sort. At least two of these rooms need to be suitable for a pair of adults.
The bedrooms in 4214 Plaza Ln don't end up very functional for anyone but kids.
They are adding a ton of space to what is already and expanded house. Again, how big does a bedroom really need to be? It’s not like people sit around all day in their bedroom.
You're being deliberately obtuse. Even someone that grew up in Ashley home acknowledged they would want more space.
You misunderstand. The question is why do the bedrooms in the addition need to be so big. Someone up thread said that the bedrooms in the Ashley models with additions were not big enough, so just asking why not?
The largest bedroom is upstairs and has sloped ceilings. One bedroom on the main level is moderate- 12x11. The other two bedrooms are quite small- basically just enough for a twin bed and dresser.
If you only want a single stairwell between the house and addition, you'll need to add a hallway through the middle of the large upstairs bedroom.
Typically, secondary bedrooms in homes are meant for kids. Particularly in children older homes, they're expecting a twin bed and not much else. That's not the situation for this family, where there will be several adults. That means they'll need more and larger bedrooms. Adults generally don't want to share bathrooms with a bunch of other people, too, which is why I'm not surprised there are a bunch of bathrooms in this. New homes even expecting traditional families tend to have a high bathroom to bedroom ratio.
Again, you seem confused. The question is why the bedrooms in the addition need to be so big. It’s not like people live in their bedrooms. People spend must of the day in the other parts of a house, not sitting around in their bedrooms.
There are two couples and two children living in this house. There will be six new bathrooms plus two and a half bathrooms in the original section of the house. That’s 8 1/2 bathrooms for four adults and two young children.
Your mistaken. When you live in a crowded house, you spend more time on your bedroom. Furthermore, adult bedrooms are typically bigger than children's bedrooms, for a variety of reasons.
We don't know how many bedrooms and bathrooms the house will have after this addition and the associated renovations.
Also, I don't know how many adults will be there. Is Mike the one with kids, or is his sibling moving in with their family? And I think his brother is already living there.
On one of the videos, Mike said that there was one elderly couple, he and his wife and their two young children living in the house. I don’t believe there was a mention of a brother or any other sibling with a family.
If people have formed one household together, they will spend time in the common areas in the house, not all apart in separate bedrooms all day long. It’s not like people are living in their bedrooms all day, right?
I really don't understand why you seem to think people don't spend time in bedrooms. Sure, if you have a small family and a big house, people can spread out in different living areas. But if you have a small house and a big family, people go to bedrooms. Didn't you ever have teenagers? Or did you just have a large house?
I'm pretty sure Mike's brother is already living there. I thought there was another sibling, too, that was planning to move in.
Most people don’t spend their entire day in their bedroom every day. You need room for a bed and a dresser or two, but it’s a sleeping and dressing space, not a living space.
If the adults are planning to spend so much time in their bedrooms, what’s the point of even living together in this “one household” situation? They could be living in separate houses/apartments and see each other the same amount of time if the plan is for everyone to hang out in their individual bedrooms.
Teenagers might study and do homework in their rooms, but they are also busy and involved in a lot of activities outside the house. So they actually don’t spend that much time in their rooms.
You think the only reason people live in the same household is to spend nearly all of their waking hours together? Really? You can't think of any other reasons?
I obviously don't know you. I don't know your current situation, or if you have or had a family. I don't know what kind of environment you grew up in. I don't know if you really believe what you're saying, if you're just trolling, or if your hatred of this addition is clouding your thoughts.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. How you choose to live your life, or claim to live your life, isn't how other people have to live their lives.
I grew up in a family with my grandparents living with us for several years- from the time when they could no longer be independent until they died. While they were still relatively healthy, my grandparents spent their time out in the common areas of the house. They never sat around in their bedroom all day.
Families that combine several related nuclear families live together because they love each other and enjoy each other’s company. It’s not like they’re totally unrelated people renting bedrooms in a house where it would make sense for them to spend all their time separately in their own rooms, where it would make sense to have a bigger room because that’s where they’re actually living.
That’s not the case here, where everyone is close family. They won’t be spending all their time in their rooms. They’re not strangers, they’re family. Families cook together, talk together, help kids with homework, maybe watch tv or listen to music. Why live in the same house together if the plan is to spend all their time in separate bedrooms, never interacting?
You don't think the ability to combine finances and support each other's personal and familial needs is another reason people live together?
Wow.
Sooo, you think families that combine finances don’t love each other and enjoy each other’s company?
Wow.
Love doesn't mean spending every waking hour together.
Look at what modern homes have. Large bedrooms, more living spaces, and more bathrooms. It isn't unreasonable for large families to want more space.
So, no one said they spend every waking hour together. What people are say is that most people don’t spend most of their waking hours in their bedrooms. Most people spend time with the people they live with. Why live with people if you don’t plan to ever spend time with them?
Again, this just demonstrates how oblivious or obtuse you are. "Spending more time together" isn't the reason people move in. It's usually money. And when it isn't money, it is usually caregiving.
If you're not going to spend all your time together when you're in the house, when you need other places to go. In a smaller family, you might have multiple living spaces to allow people to spread out to do separate activities. As the number of people increases, isn't practical to correspondingly increase the number of living areas, so the bedrooms are the only practical option.
If people are moving in together just to save money and they don’t even like each other, that is just silly. Is everybody going to move in and stay in their separate bedrooms and avoid each other? How will they eat- won’t they have to use the same kitchen?
When I graduated from college, I had friends who lived in group houses. In one, everyone knew each other from college and were all friends. They cooked together and hung out together. They saved money by renting separate bedrooms but they used the common areas regularly.
In another, people rented rooms in a house and they were all strangers to each other. They all stayed in their own rooms and didn’t spend a lot of time interacting. It sounds as though your family will be moving in, but staying in their separate rooms the way strangers would. What’s the point of that?
You fail to understand that if you don't *always* intend to use the shared living spaces, then the bedrooms need to be functional, including going of sufficient size.
At this point you just seem to be trolling. This isn't that complicated, so presumably you know this. I don't understand what sort of weird satisfaction you get by being obtuse.
Is the plan to move in family members who don’t know each other or like each other well enough to interact regularly? The plan is for people to spend most of their time in their own bedrooms, separate from each other? That’s how your family treats other family members?
Honestly, that is an unusual way for a family to operate. What’s the point of living together if it’s only to save money but you don’t enjoy each other’s company? That doesn’t sound like a harmonious family relationship.
DP. Omg who cares! This tangent is completely irrelevant and going in circles.
This poster is trying to get him to admit that these "bedrooms" are more akin to "units" which he will never do. He will insist to his dying day that he built this enormous, multiple bed and bath structure with two flights of stairs for Grandma and Grandpa.
Exactly. It's clear what his intent was.
Why wouldn't grandma and grandpa use the existing first floor room with the other family members using the new bedrooms in the addition?
They will! As someone said upthread, renting the units is not a fear anyone needs to worry about because of the shining beacon! So why worry? Because the builder has been underhanded over and over?
Okay, I’ll bite. What the heck is a shining beacon? Where did this phrase come from?
I used it. It's an awfully conspicuous design. The idea that they're going to rent out rooms without other people noticing and reporting them to the county seems silly. Are people actually worried about that?
If the builder gets the special permit or variance, he will do as he pleases. Any attempts to further limit what he can do will be called racism.
Is that really what you think? That the county won't enforce the multi-family/rental laws? Is there any reason to think they don't enforce them?
Though, to be fair, that law seems to have racist underpinnings. Or at least classist. I lived much of my life in small college towns, which enforced these aggressively. In those cases, town residents made no attempt to hide their distain for college students. These weren't places where parking or public services were in short supply. They just didn't like college students. And since college students aren't a protected class, they didn't to come up with other explanations for why these laws were in place.
This looks pretty similar, except replace "college students" with "poors."
Regardless, my understanding is that legal basis for upholding these laws is quite strong.
I thought the Virginia house of delegates plans to eliminate single family home zoning this session.
There have been past attempts to introduce things like allowing multi-family homes in areas zoned for single
family, but I don't think there's a reason to think something like that will pass this year.
It's also most orthogonal to the situation that people here claim to be worried about. Renting out individual bedrooms isn't multi-family. At least, not as a building type, which is what such zoning reforms refer to. It would instead be a different use of a single family home- i.e., single room occupancy. Restrictions and requirements on uses would still stand.
So, you couldn't just build extra bedrooms and rent them out. But maybe you could build studio apartments (with their own kitchens and bathrooms), and rent those out.
All you need to do is add a microwave and a small fridge and you essentially have a studio apartment.
Do you really believe that? Because it isn't true.
Not a legal one, but I do agree with this poster.
Exactly. I knew people in college and just out of college who rented rooms like this. They basically lived in the bedroom.
I don't understand the point/relevance. If you're already starting from the position that people will break the law, then what does it matter what the law says? Whether it is SRO, multi-family dwellings created and rented without permits, or unauthorized short-term rentals, there are always going to be some people who try to fly under the radar and not get caught.
And building a conspicuous and controversial addition isn't how you fly under the radar.
I don't know what Mike's plans are. There's been so many claims made regarding who is living there now, who is expected to live there in the future, how many rooms are in the addition, etc. Honestly, at this point I can't cleanly separate what is truly known as fact, what is being inferred, and what is wild speculation/FUD.
But, the claimed fears regarding room rentals seem both overblown and non-credible to me. I find it hard to believe that they'd bring in strangers to share the same space as their kids and elderly parents.
They will be co-ethnic strangers. I work with a lot of foreigners who live in places like this. They share a house or even a bedroom with a total stranger from their home country. Higher-trust societies can do things like this.
When they live in a million-dollar home? Perhaps it happens, but it doesn't seem likely.
Million dollar home isn’t a meaningful distinction in Northern Virginia. The median sales price for a single family home in Fairfax county is 950k.
And among those, do you think it is common for multigenerational families to rent out bedrooms to strangers who would share living areas? I highly doubt it.
It probably depends on whether they have some extra bedrooms with their own baths that are big enough to have a “mini-kitchenette.” Bonus points if they can have access to a door that doesn’t require them to go through the family living spaces.
Which they do
Doesn't look like it. Back door into the new kitchen. And new front door off the patio. There aren't distinct spaces and separate entrances.
You don’t really need completely distinct spaces and separate entrances for it to work to rent out extra bedrooms, that’s just a nice extra.
OTOH this set up will make it easier for the homeowner/landlord to corner them coming and going to demand rent. Way to think ahead!
No they have not. They didn’t even follow the permit plans submitted to the county. Most likely outcome is that the addition will be condemned by the county for building code violations. It will be required to be demolished since they did not build a foundation that follow building codes.
No they have not. They didn’t even follow the permit plans submitted to the county. Most likely outcome is that the addition will be condemned by the county for building code violations. It will be required to be demolished since they did not build a foundation that follow building codes.
Other posters with apparent neighborhood connections said they did foundation work. That was alluded to in the permits, too. They apparently extended the foundation, and strengthened the footings near the original house.
No they have not. They didn’t even follow the permit plans submitted to the county. Most likely outcome is that the addition will be condemned by the county for building code violations. It will be required to be demolished since they did not build a foundation that follow building codes.
Other posters with apparent neighborhood connections said they did foundation work. That was alluded to in the permits, too. They apparently extended the foundation, and strengthened the footings near the original house.
That is a lie. They did not follow the plans. I suspect that is the homeowner pretending to be neighbors posting on here to promote a more favorable (inaccurate) narrative.
No they have not. They didn’t even follow the permit plans submitted to the county. Most likely outcome is that the addition will be condemned by the county for building code violations. It will be required to be demolished since they did not build a foundation that follow building codes.
The new foundation or footings passed inspection according to county records.
No they have not. They didn’t even follow the permit plans submitted to the county. Most likely outcome is that the addition will be condemned by the county for building code violations. It will be required to be demolished since they did not build a foundation that follow building codes.
Other posters with apparent neighborhood connections said they did foundation work. That was alluded to in the permits, too. They apparently extended the foundation, and strengthened the footings near the original house.
That is a lie. They did not follow the plans. I suspect that is the homeowner pretending to be neighbors posting on here to promote a more favorable (inaccurate) narrative.
Funny then how you're the one providing verifiably false claims.
According to the PLUS ACA-Accela website, the corrections submitted by the homeowner were marked as "Ready to Review" on 01/12/26. TBD what happens next.
Anonymous wrote:According to the PLUS ACA-Accela website, the corrections submitted by the homeowner were marked as "Ready to Review" on 01/12/26. TBD what happens next.
Those are the easy things. The big thing pending is the setback reduction.
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