Tourist submersible missing on visit to Titanic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 19-year-old passenger "wasn't very up for it" and felt "terrified" about the trip to explore the Titanic wreckage, his aunt said.

He ended up going because he was eager to please his dad, who was passionate about the lore of the ship, she said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/titanic-submersible-shahwood-suleman-family-tragedy-rcna90678

The aunt making these comments is estranged from her family including the brother who was on board the Titan, according to Daily Mail, so she might not be an unimpeachable source.

This isn't legal testimony. Unless she's truly demented I doubt she's 100% making up something her deceased nephew said. Plus she says he was saying it to other relatives - so it seems like people in the family knew he wasn't interested in doing this, not just her alone.

Plus I don't think she's entirely estranged - just that she isn't in touch all the time as his family disapproves of her use of pot for MS pain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In another report I heard the son went down because the trip was scheduled on Father’s Day.

And because people had dropped out so there was a seat available. Have those people been interviewed?

Yes, one of the men who dropped out over safety concerns:

https://www.insider.com/man-pulled-out-of-titan-sub-trip-didnt-seem-professional-2023-6?amp

He didn't drop out of THIS trip. He dropped out in 2018.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I am genuinely sad for the 19yr old.

sad because he’s younger than the rest? It is sad, sad that all the men died. He wasn’t a baby. God, some people have kids at 19, they have jobs, responsibilities. Why are we acting like he was 9? If his father was abusive and forced him into the crap device, then that’s concerning, but that’s not the case here. Do we feel this bad if a 19 year old has a motorcycle accident while riding with his dad? Or if a 19 year old dies while sky diving with Dad? I feel equal sorrow for everyone. The dad was only 48, he was very young also.

Yeah I mean it struck me that the dad's own dad is in his late 70s/early 80s. That man lost a son and a grandson.

I feel for the families. But yeah, a 48 year old has potentially another 50 years of life, even the oldest man was 77 years young. Sadly, you can die at any age. These men were robbed of life, they made one bad decision, like many people do, and that’s it, show’s over.

They weren't robbed; they made a choice (minus the kid). Robbed is being murdered, killed by a drunk driver, plane crash etc. Signing a waiver that notes "death" in it four times is a choice.

But it has been done before and people survived, they didn’t believe they would be the ones to implode.

This vehicle had never been cycled to failure. It’s right there in the lawsuit. Nobody had any rational basis for thinking it would go one cycle, five cycles, or any number of cycles plus one and still be OK, because none of that had been tested.

Not true at all. Lawsuit was filed in 2018 by a non engineer after he was fired.

Testing and cycling was done in the five years after that and a new hull was manufactured.

Stop quoting your “facts” from a five year old lawsuit from ex employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I am genuinely sad for the 19yr old.

sad because he’s younger than the rest? It is sad, sad that all the men died. He wasn’t a baby. God, some people have kids at 19, they have jobs, responsibilities. Why are we acting like he was 9? If his father was abusive and forced him into the crap device, then that’s concerning, but that’s not the case here. Do we feel this bad if a 19 year old has a motorcycle accident while riding with his dad? Or if a 19 year old dies while sky diving with Dad? I feel equal sorrow for everyone. The dad was only 48, he was very young also.

Yeah I mean it struck me that the dad's own dad is in his late 70s/early 80s. That man lost a son and a grandson.

I feel for the families. But yeah, a 48 year old has potentially another 50 years of life, even the oldest man was 77 years young. Sadly, you can die at any age. These men were robbed of life, they made one bad decision, like many people do, and that’s it, show’s over.

They weren't robbed; they made a choice (minus the kid). Robbed is being murdered, killed by a drunk driver, plane crash etc. Signing a waiver that notes "death" in it four times is a choice.

I get it. This didn't happen TO THEM. They did it - they chose to go down there in a carbon fiber mini van after signing waivers noting death. So yeah terrible decision. But just because someone makes terrible decisions doesn't mean they deserve to die.

I wasn't challenging if they deserved to die. I was challenging the word "robbed." They gambled with their lives and lost the bet. That's not how I define robbed. Rob is when something is taken from you without consent. They literally signed their lives away.

But you can say that about motor cycle riders, bike riders even, rock climbers, etc. Robbed, gambled with their lives, it’s semantics, either way many have succeeded at what they were trying to accomplish. It’s a shame, I feel they were robbed. They trusted that they would survive like the others before them.

It's not semantics. If you go to the casino and gamble away $1,000 and use the argument that you were "robbed" because your sister/cousin/brother all won when they gambled, no one will have sympathy for you. It's called "you gambled and lost," but you were not robbed.

Look up the definition.

When you give something away while clothed in your right mind, you did it with consent. Being robbed is without consent. They voluntarily locked themselves in a tube with no way out and paid a company 250k with no guarantees of their safe return.

[Anonymous]

No way were they robbed- they made the decisions… awful as it was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I am genuinely sad for the 19yr old.

sad because he’s younger than the rest? It is sad, sad that all the men died. He wasn’t a baby. God, some people have kids at 19, they have jobs, responsibilities. Why are we acting like he was 9? If his father was abusive and forced him into the crap device, then that’s concerning, but that’s not the case here. Do we feel this bad if a 19 year old has a motorcycle accident while riding with his dad? Or if a 19 year old dies while sky diving with Dad? I feel equal sorrow for everyone. The dad was only 48, he was very young also.

Yeah I mean it struck me that the dad's own dad is in his late 70s/early 80s. That man lost a son and a grandson.

I feel for the families. But yeah, a 48 year old has potentially another 50 years of life, even the oldest man was 77 years young. Sadly, you can die at any age. These men were robbed of life, they made one bad decision, like many people do, and that’s it, show’s over.

They weren't robbed; they made a choice (minus the kid). Robbed is being murdered, killed by a drunk driver, plane crash etc. Signing a waiver that notes "death" in it four times is a choice.

But it has been done before and people survived, they didn’t believe they would be the ones to implode.

This vehicle had never been cycled to failure. It’s right there in the lawsuit. Nobody had any rational basis for thinking it would go one cycle, five cycles, or any number of cycles plus one and still be OK, because none of that had been tested.

Not true at all. Lawsuit was filed in 2018 by a non engineer after he was fired.

Testing and cycling was done in the five years after that and a new hull was manufactured.

Stop quoting your “facts” from a five year old lawsuit from ex employees.

The civil liability defense bar has entered the chat!

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry they all died and feel so bad for their families, especially the remaining parent of that 19 yo.

I am stunned that anyone would pay $250,000 to travel in a vessel lit up inside by a glow stick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So per the kid's older sister, he didn't want to go on the sub and only did it bc it was Fathers Day/his father was Titanic obsessed (others had dropped out so seats opened up). Per his aunt - he was terrified of going and had expressed to other family members that he was terrified.

Wow. Learn to say no - even to mommy and daddy - folks. Or as I said before why on earth could mom not step in here and tell DH he was free to do what he wanted but her DS wasn't going esp since he was terrified!?

What makes you think the mother had any say in this matter? Different culture.

The mother is white/British. She's not a subservient Pakistani woman - and btw if you think Pakistani women are subservient with respect to their baby boys lol you don't know our culture. Mama always wins re her kids and esp her son at this age.

The culture issue may not be Pakistani vs European culture as much as billionaire culture. We don't know how this guy was - he actually wasn't a billionaire, "only" worth hundreds of millions. We don't know if this was a family where daddy was like you live this life because of MY money, MY empire, we'll do things MY way - and everyone went with it because of course they liked their rich lifestyle.

The guy was 19 yrs old, not 9. I mean really. I know kids are taking longer to grow up these days but man, he was 19. He could’ve said no, my kids refuse to go everywhere with me. Not blaming him but let’s not act like he was a child.

Do you have a 19 year old? Because they aren't substantively that different than a 17 or 18 year old. The thing about adulthood is that it's a process. You don't magically transform the day you turn 18. He did not have enough life experience or brain development to properly assess the risk here. He trusted his dad to guide him.

I was scared of plenty of things at that age. My dad was my cheerleader, occasionally pushing me to do things I otherwise would not have. I don't blame the kid for trusting his dad. It's a sad story and my thoughts are with his mom and sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I am genuinely sad for the 19yr old.

sad because he’s younger than the rest? It is sad, sad that all the men died. He wasn’t a baby. God, some people have kids at 19, they have jobs, responsibilities. Why are we acting like he was 9? If his father was abusive and forced him into the crap device, then that’s concerning, but that’s not the case here. Do we feel this bad if a 19 year old has a motorcycle accident while riding with his dad? Or if a 19 year old dies while sky diving with Dad? I feel equal sorrow for everyone. The dad was only 48, he was very young also.

Yeah I mean it struck me that the dad's own dad is in his late 70s/early 80s. That man lost a son and a grandson.

I feel for the families. But yeah, a 48 year old has potentially another 50 years of life, even the oldest man was 77 years young. Sadly, you can die at any age. These men were robbed of life, they made one bad decision, like many people do, and that’s it, show’s over.

They weren't robbed; they made a choice (minus the kid). Robbed is being murdered, killed by a drunk driver, plane crash etc. Signing a waiver that notes "death" in it four times is a choice.

I get it. This didn't happen TO THEM. They did it - they chose to go down there in a carbon fiber mini van after signing waivers noting death. So yeah terrible decision. But just because someone makes terrible decisions doesn't mean they deserve to die.

I wasn't challenging if they deserved to die. I was challenging the word "robbed." They gambled with their lives and lost the bet. That's not how I define robbed. Rob is when something is taken from you without consent. They literally signed their lives away.

But you can say that about motor cycle riders, bike riders even, rock climbers, etc. Robbed, gambled with their lives, it’s semantics, either way many have succeeded at what they were trying to accomplish. It’s a shame, I feel they were robbed. They trusted that they would survive like the others before them.

It's not semantics. If you go to the casino and gamble away $1,000 and use the argument that you were "robbed" because your sister/cousin/brother all won when they gambled, no one will have sympathy for you. It's called "you gambled and lost," but you were not robbed.

Look up the definition.

When you give something away while clothed in your right mind, you did it with consent. Being robbed is without consent. They voluntarily locked themselves in a tube with no way out and paid a company 250k with no guarantees of their safe return.

I know the meaning of robbed, thank you. I feel that they were jipped, is that better? A bad decision doesn’t mean they weren’t worthy of a good healthy long life. They made a bad decision and it robbed them of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So per the kid's older sister, he didn't want to go on the sub and only did it bc it was Fathers Day/his father was Titanic obsessed (others had dropped out so seats opened up). Per his aunt - he was terrified of going and had expressed to other family members that he was terrified.

Wow. Learn to say no - even to mommy and daddy - folks. Or as I said before why on earth could mom not step in here and tell DH he was free to do what he wanted but her DS wasn't going esp since he was terrified!?

What makes you think the mother had any say in this matter? Different culture.

The mother is white/British. She's not a subservient Pakistani woman - and btw if you think Pakistani women are subservient with respect to their baby boys lol you don't know our culture. Mama always wins re her kids and esp her son at this age.

The culture issue may not be Pakistani vs European culture as much as billionaire culture. We don't know how this guy was - he actually wasn't a billionaire, "only" worth hundreds of millions. We don't know if this was a family where daddy was like you live this life because of MY money, MY empire, we'll do things MY way - and everyone went with it because of course they liked their rich lifestyle.

The guy was 19 yrs old, not 9. I mean really. I know kids are taking longer to grow up these days but man, he was 19. He could’ve said no, my kids refuse to go everywhere with me. Not blaming him but let’s not act like he was a child.

Do you have a 19 year old? Because they aren't substantively that different than a 17 or 18 year old. The thing about adulthood is that it's a process. You don't magically transform the day you turn 18. He did not have enough life experience or brain development to properly assess the risk here. He trusted his dad to guide him.

I was scared of plenty of things at that age. My dad was my cheerleader, occasionally pushing me to do things I otherwise would not have. I don't blame the kid for trusting his dad. It's a sad story and my thoughts are with his mom and sister.

I was 19 once, I am nearing 50 now. At 19 I was not much different than I am today, maturity wise. I traveled throughout Europe with one other person, had a job, and was attending college. This was a different generation though. I didn’t listen to my parents but I was mature enough to make decent choices, I am a woman though. Maybe some people are much slower to mature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I am genuinely sad for the 19yr old.

sad because he’s younger than the rest? It is sad, sad that all the men died. He wasn’t a baby. God, some people have kids at 19, they have jobs, responsibilities. Why are we acting like he was 9? If his father was abusive and forced him into the crap device, then that’s concerning, but that’s not the case here. Do we feel this bad if a 19 year old has a motorcycle accident while riding with his dad? Or if a 19 year old dies while sky diving with Dad? I feel equal sorrow for everyone. The dad was only 48, he was very young also.

Yeah I mean it struck me that the dad's own dad is in his late 70s/early 80s. That man lost a son and a grandson.

I feel for the families. But yeah, a 48 year old has potentially another 50 years of life, even the oldest man was 77 years young. Sadly, you can die at any age. These men were robbed of life, they made one bad decision, like many people do, and that’s it, show’s over.

They weren't robbed; they made a choice (minus the kid). Robbed is being murdered, killed by a drunk driver, plane crash etc. Signing a waiver that notes "death" in it four times is a choice.

But it has been done before and people survived, they didn’t believe they would be the ones to implode.

This vehicle had never been cycled to failure. It’s right there in the lawsuit. Nobody had any rational basis for thinking it would go one cycle, five cycles, or any number of cycles plus one and still be OK, because none of that had been tested.

Not true at all. Lawsuit was filed in 2018 by a non engineer after he was fired.

Testing and cycling was done in the five years after that and a new hull was manufactured.

Stop quoting your “facts” from a five year old lawsuit from ex employees.

Oceangate was selling tickets in 2018 on the basis of the data that existed at that time. Whether or not there was any new data generated after that, they showed disregard for safety and a lack of transparency with passengers from the beginning. The CEO said this himself--"safety is risk."

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You're saying that these passengers were offered data about the subsequent testing and cycling that was done and the results? By all means cite it so that we can understand what might have been in their minds other than hope, hubris and bullshit.

(Also LOL at repeating the company's attempt to smear the whistleblower based on him being a "non engineer". He's a qualified submarine pilot and inspector. They hired him to run their safety program. If he's not an engineer--and that is the only relevant question as to his qualifications--what does their choice of him as the guy running the safety program say about them?)

[Anonymous]

Perspective:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/22/the-greek-shipwreck-was-a-horrific-tragedy-yet-it-didnt-get-the-attention-of-the-titanic-story

[Anonymous]

Actually, it was worse. He didn't say "safety is risk." He said "safety is waste."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I am genuinely sad for the 19yr old.

sad because he’s younger than the rest? It is sad, sad that all the men died. He wasn’t a baby. God, some people have kids at 19, they have jobs, responsibilities. Why are we acting like he was 9? If his father was abusive and forced him into the crap device, then that’s concerning, but that’s not the case here. Do we feel this bad if a 19 year old has a motorcycle accident while riding with his dad? Or if a 19 year old dies while sky diving with Dad? I feel equal sorrow for everyone. The dad was only 48, he was very young also.

Yeah I mean it struck me that the dad's own dad is in his late 70s/early 80s. That man lost a son and a grandson.

I feel for the families. But yeah, a 48 year old has potentially another 50 years of life, even the oldest man was 77 years young. Sadly, you can die at any age. These men were robbed of life, they made one bad decision, like many people do, and that’s it, show’s over.

They weren't robbed; they made a choice (minus the kid). Robbed is being murdered, killed by a drunk driver, plane crash etc. Signing a waiver that notes "death" in it four times is a choice.

I get it. This didn't happen TO THEM. They did it - they chose to go down there in a carbon fiber mini van after signing waivers noting death. So yeah terrible decision. But just because someone makes terrible decisions doesn't mean they deserve to die.

I wasn't challenging if they deserved to die. I was challenging the word "robbed." They gambled with their lives and lost the bet. That's not how I define robbed. Rob is when something is taken from you without consent. They literally signed their lives away.

But you can say that about motor cycle riders, bike riders even, rock climbers, etc. Robbed, gambled with their lives, it’s semantics, either way many have succeeded at what they were trying to accomplish. It’s a shame, I feel they were robbed. They trusted that they would survive like the others before them.

It's not semantics. If you go to the casino and gamble away $1,000 and use the argument that you were "robbed" because your sister/cousin/brother all won when they gambled, no one will have sympathy for you. It's called "you gambled and lost," but you were not robbed.

Look up the definition.

When you give something away while clothed in your right mind, you did it with consent. Being robbed is without consent. They voluntarily locked themselves in a tube with no way out and paid a company 250k with no guarantees of their safe return.

I know the meaning of robbed, thank you. I feel that they were jipped, is that better? A bad decision doesn’t mean they weren’t worthy of a good healthy long life. They made a bad decision and it robbed them of life.

No, an offensive term is not a better example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The debris was found about 500 meters off the bow of the titanic.

so they didn’t even get to see it.

Isn't 500 meters pretty close? that's like less than a half a mile. but I guess in the darkness you wouldn't have seen it from that distance.

If you watch the videos from previous dives you can only see about 20 feet in front of you with intense lights. It's why there's no image of the entire Titanic, because they can only see bits of it as you move around. 500 meters might as well have been 500 miles.