Hypocrisy about diverse schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're in a W school and DD's friends are very diverse. If I go by her closest friend group and recent b-day party attendees they include 3 black, 4 asian, 1 middle eastern, and 2 white girls. One of the white girls is half asian. DS has a similar but not identical mix of friends. In comparison we've gone to two different parties in Silver Spring with old friends and almost all the kids/people there were white.

I think the races/cultures mix more in the W schools. It might be because there is no majority in some of the schools, the kids are all from similar highly educated families, and the SES is not at the extremes.

Watkins Mill? Or your DD is not white bread girl?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we are digressing in this conversation. This is not about race; it's about SES. I think it's clear that many parents want a diverse school as long as it doesn't impede their child's chances of having a high-achieving peer cohort. Because most parents don't have recent first hand experience when researching schools, they look at the available data, the FARMS rate; and evaluate if they're comfortable with that. The level of comfort varies from family to family.

Which, in Montgomery County, is well correlated with race/ethnicity.

Plus it actually is about race, also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we are digressing in this conversation. This is not about race; it's about SES. I think it's clear that many parents want a diverse school as long as it doesn't impede their child's chances of having a high-achieving peer cohort. Because most parents don't have recent first hand experience when researching schools, they look at the available data, the FARMS rate; and evaluate if they're comfortable with that. The level of comfort varies from family to family.

Which, in Montgomery County, is well correlated with race/ethnicity.

Plus it actually is about race, also.

You know what, you're right. For some families, ethnicity is a factor/ Some people are not comfortable with having too many brown kids in their school, regardless of SES. For instance, Northwest HS on paper is great- test scores, SATs, low FARMS, etc. But someone upthread mentioned that you can't compare QO and NW despite this because the kids at NW look like the kids at SVHS. Bottom line, some people are more comfortable in schools with lots of white people and that's what QO and other schools like the Ws, Sherwood, Damascus, and Poolesville provide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But we value other things too. We value public transportation and walkable community- like being around farmers markets etc. we wouldn’t have that if we moved further out.

Actually these things do exist out in higher ranked areas too. The Shady Grove red line is close to W schools so there are parents who drive 5-10 minutes and then take the metro. There are farmers markets all over. Many areas that feed into RM are walkable -Fallsgrove, RTC and there are tons of farmers markets. Wootton is getting an area with Trader Joe's, restaurants etc off Travilah RD. Churchill has Park Potomac and the Village. QO has Lakelands and the Kentlands.

Right, but those areas would add a ton of time to our commute. So we prefer close-in SS, and have been very happy with the schools. Yes, there are more lower SES kids in the schools, but they do a great job of having a mix of classes for all types of abilities. My children are in a very competitive cohort. We brought in our starter home, but love the area so much instead of moving out of the DCC we renovated and are staying in our house.

It wouldn't add time to your commute if you are taking the metro.

I’m a different poster, but this is silly. You have no idea where this person works. I live in downtown Silver Spring, but have commuted from Bethesda in the past. Silver Spring is definitely a shorter red line commute to my office. Don’t assume everyone works at DuPont circle.

[Anonymous]

In the past we had frequent posts that you just need to drive by Sherwood HS and see that it is going down hill. Says it all. And that school is around 50% white. I am sure that was the nasty Whitman pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we are digressing in this conversation. This is not about race; it's about SES. I think it's clear that many parents want a diverse school as long as it doesn't impede their child's chances of having a high-achieving peer cohort. Because most parents don't have recent first hand experience when researching schools, they look at the available data, the FARMS rate; and evaluate if they're comfortable with that. The level of comfort varies from family to family.

Which, in Montgomery County, is well correlated with race/ethnicity.

Plus it actually is about race, also.

You know what, you're right. For some families, ethnicity is a factor/ Some people are not comfortable with having too many brown kids in their school, regardless of SES. For instance, Northwest HS on paper is great- test scores, SATs, low FARMS, etc. But someone upthread mentioned that you can't compare QO and NW despite this because the kids at NW look like the kids at SVHS. Bottom line, some people are more comfortable in schools with lots of white people and that's what QO and other schools like the Ws, Sherwood, Damascus, and Poolesville provide.

If we just talk about "on paper", Northwest or QO, maybe ok, but neither one is close to being "great". Just "on paper", both (and Sherwood, Damascus too) are far behind the Ws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we are digressing in this conversation. This is not about race; it's about SES. I think it's clear that many parents want a diverse school as long as it doesn't impede their child's chances of having a high-achieving peer cohort. Because most parents don't have recent first hand experience when researching schools, they look at the available data, the FARMS rate; and evaluate if they're comfortable with that. The level of comfort varies from family to family.

Which, in Montgomery County, is well correlated with race/ethnicity.

Plus it actually is about race, also.

You know what, you're right. For some families, ethnicity is a factor/ Some people are not comfortable with having too many brown kids in their school, regardless of SES. For instance, Northwest HS on paper is great- test scores, SATs, low FARMS, etc. But someone upthread mentioned that you can't compare QO and NW despite this because the kids at NW look like the kids at SVHS. Bottom line, some people are more comfortable in schools with lots of white people and that's what QO and other schools like the Ws, Sherwood, Damascus, and Poolesville provide.

If we just talk about "on paper", Northwest or QO, maybe ok, but neither one is close to being "great". Just "on paper", both (and Sherwood, Damascus too) are far behind the Ws.

Oh ok...well enlighten us....what is a "great" school? And what is it about the Ws (besides the fact that they are wealthier and whiter) that makes them "great"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we are digressing in this conversation. This is not about race; it's about SES. I think it's clear that many parents want a diverse school as long as it doesn't impede their child's chances of having a high-achieving peer cohort. Because most parents don't have recent first hand experience when researching schools, they look at the available data, the FARMS rate; and evaluate if they're comfortable with that. The level of comfort varies from family to family.

Which, in Montgomery County, is well correlated with race/ethnicity.

Plus it actually is about race, also.

You know what, you're right. For some families, ethnicity is a factor/ Some people are not comfortable with having too many brown kids in their school, regardless of SES. For instance, Northwest HS on paper is great- test scores, SATs, low FARMS, etc. But someone upthread mentioned that you can't compare QO and NW despite this because the kids at NW look like the kids at SVHS. Bottom line, some people are more comfortable in schools with lots of white people and that's what QO and other schools like the Ws, Sherwood, Damascus, and Poolesville provide.

If we just talk about "on paper", Northwest or QO, maybe ok, but neither one is close to being "great". Just "on paper", both (and Sherwood, Damascus too) are far behind the Ws.

Oh ok...well enlighten us....what is a "great" school? And what is it about the Ws (besides the fact that they are wealthier and whiter) that makes them "great"?

The criteria is very clear, as the PP stated: "on paper is great- test scores, SATs, low FARMS, etc". You have the numbers from MCPS, look at those. It is clear that Northwest, QO, Sherwood, Damascus are within the same tier, the Ws are in a higher Tier. If you call the Ws "great", I don't think it makes sense to call the next tier "great" too. Unless, you are just being polite and want to call everything not bad as "great"?

I say it again: I am talking about the "on paper" criteria used by the PP, not your criteria. If you don't like the "on paper" criteria, that is fine, just don't mix your criteria with the "on paper" one we are discussing, ok?

[Anonymous]

eh
It's not the race/ethnicity issue. It's all about low expectations.

Teachers are forced to abide by embarrassing rules (50%, re-teach/re-assess, "What can you do to make sure John John, a 5th year senior, walks?").

nonsense

Kids know it, too, and as a result, take advantage of the "gifts." Teachers know they can't win b/c no administrator will support him/her.

If you only knew what REALLY went on in some classrooms, you'd to straight to the BOE. You'd take it to the papers.

It's a lose-lose situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:eh
It's not the race/ethnicity issue. It's all about low expectations.

Teachers are forced to abide by embarrassing rules (50%, re-teach/re-assess, "What can you do to make sure John John, a 5th year senior, walks?").

nonsense

Kids know it, too, and as a result, take advantage of the "gifts." Teachers know they can't win b/c no administrator will support him/her.

If you only knew what REALLY went on in some classrooms, you'd to straight to the BOE. You'd take it to the papers.

It's a lose-lose situation.

What "It's not the race/ethnicity issue" means: It's the race/ethnicity issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:eh
It's not the race/ethnicity issue. It's all about low expectations.

Teachers are forced to abide by embarrassing rules (50%, re-teach/re-assess, "What can you do to make sure John John, a 5th year senior, walks?").

nonsense

Kids know it, too, and as a result, take advantage of the "gifts." Teachers know they can't win b/c no administrator will support him/her.

If you only knew what REALLY went on in some classrooms, you'd to straight to the BOE. You'd take it to the papers.

It's a lose-lose situation.

What "It's not the race/ethnicity issue" means: It's the race/ethnicity issue.

What "It's the race/ethnicity issue" means: It's not the race/ethnicity issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we are digressing in this conversation. This is not about race; it's about SES. I think it's clear that many parents want a diverse school as long as it doesn't impede their child's chances of having a high-achieving peer cohort. Because most parents don't have recent first hand experience when researching schools, they look at the available data, the FARMS rate; and evaluate if they're comfortable with that. The level of comfort varies from family to family.

Forgive the rest of us if we’re not concerned about how “comfortable” other parents are with the existence of low-income children. Quick quiz: what percentage of all American public school children do you think get free lunch? A) 10% B) 20% C) 30% D) 50% ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we are digressing in this conversation. This is not about race; it's about SES. I think it's clear that many parents want a diverse school as long as it doesn't impede their child's chances of having a high-achieving peer cohort. Because most parents don't have recent first hand experience when researching schools, they look at the available data, the FARMS rate; and evaluate if they're comfortable with that. The level of comfort varies from family to family.

Which, in Montgomery County, is well correlated with race/ethnicity.

Plus it actually is about race, also.

You know what, you're right. For some families, ethnicity is a factor/ Some people are not comfortable with having too many brown kids in their school, regardless of SES. For instance, Northwest HS on paper is great- test scores, SATs, low FARMS, etc. But someone upthread mentioned that you can't compare QO and NW despite this because the kids at NW look like the kids at SVHS. Bottom line, some people are more comfortable in schools with lots of white people and that's what QO and other schools like the Ws, Sherwood, Damascus, and Poolesville provide.

If we just talk about "on paper", Northwest or QO, maybe ok, but neither one is close to being "great". Just "on paper", both (and Sherwood, Damascus too) are far behind the Ws.

Oh ok...well enlighten us....what is a "great" school? And what is it about the Ws (besides the fact that they are wealthier and whiter) that makes them "great"?

The criteria is very clear, as the PP stated: "on paper is great- test scores, SATs, low FARMS, etc". You have the numbers from MCPS, look at those. It is clear that Northwest, QO, Sherwood, Damascus are within the same tier, the Ws are in a higher Tier. If you call the Ws "great", I don't think it makes sense to call the next tier "great" too. Unless, you are just being polite and want to call everything not bad as "great"?

I say it again: I am talking about the "on paper" criteria used by the PP, not your criteria. If you don't like the "on paper" criteria, that is fine, just don't mix your criteria with the "on paper" one we are discussing, ok?

Oh! You are right. Color me impressed that a bunch of privileged wealthy white children do well on SATs and have very few poors. BRAVO!

Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue to support and applaud the myriad of other "great" schools within MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we are digressing in this conversation. This is not about race; it's about SES. I think it's clear that many parents want a diverse school as long as it doesn't impede their child's chances of having a high-achieving peer cohort. Because most parents don't have recent first hand experience when researching schools, they look at the available data, the FARMS rate; and evaluate if they're comfortable with that. The level of comfort varies from family to family.

Which, in Montgomery County, is well correlated with race/ethnicity.

Plus it actually is about race, also.

You know what, you're right. For some families, ethnicity is a factor/ Some people are not comfortable with having too many brown kids in their school, regardless of SES. For instance, Northwest HS on paper is great- test scores, SATs, low FARMS, etc. But someone upthread mentioned that you can't compare QO and NW despite this because the kids at NW look like the kids at SVHS. Bottom line, some people are more comfortable in schools with lots of white people and that's what QO and other schools like the Ws, Sherwood, Damascus, and Poolesville provide.

If we just talk about "on paper", Northwest or QO, maybe ok, but neither one is close to being "great". Just "on paper", both (and Sherwood, Damascus too) are far behind the Ws.

Oh ok...well enlighten us....what is a "great" school? And what is it about the Ws (besides the fact that they are wealthier and whiter) that makes them "great"?

The criteria is very clear, as the PP stated: "on paper is great- test scores, SATs, low FARMS, etc". You have the numbers from MCPS, look at those. It is clear that Northwest, QO, Sherwood, Damascus are within the same tier, the Ws are in a higher Tier. If you call the Ws "great", I don't think it makes sense to call the next tier "great" too. Unless, you are just being polite and want to call everything not bad as "great"?

I say it again: I am talking about the "on paper" criteria used by the PP, not your criteria. If you don't like the "on paper" criteria, that is fine, just don't mix your criteria with the "on paper" one we are discussing, ok?

Oh! You are right. Color me impressed that a bunch of privileged wealthy white children do well on SATs and have very few poors. BRAVO!

Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue to support and applaud the myriad of other "great" schools within MCPS.

Sure, go with that. My OP was just to tell the PP that (if) using the "on paper" criteria he/she suggested, one can't categorize Northwest or QO as "great". So his/her argument does not work. It has nothing to do with which school is really "great" (I never said that I personally support using that criteria ).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we are digressing in this conversation. This is not about race; it's about SES. I think it's clear that many parents want a diverse school as long as it doesn't impede their child's chances of having a high-achieving peer cohort. Because most parents don't have recent first hand experience when researching schools, they look at the available data, the FARMS rate; and evaluate if they're comfortable with that. The level of comfort varies from family to family.

And another thing for the “it’s not race, it’s SES” folks: is it really any better morally to say you don’t want any poor kids in the school than to say you don’t want any brown kids? They both sound pretty awful to me.