USMNT Head Coach thread

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s no one’s “fault.” It’s the culture. The US simply doesn’t have the pervasive soccer culture that other countries do. I often wonder how the landscape might look if Soccer were the primary sport in this country, over football, baseball, basketball, and hockey.

Unfortunately, it just isn’t.

The US does not have a "pervasive" soccer culture, but it does have millions of people who are passionate about the game. The problem is that the USSF has failed miserably in its mission to advance soccer in this country, the latest coaching hire being an ample proof of that.

Unfortunately, millions of passionate fans doesn't equate to the best available talent choosing to play soccer over the population at large. The best athletes in this country still choose other sports. A cultural/social construct. It's not to say that all the best athletes are in other sports, but disproportionately this is the case. It's not just about physical brawn either; the same physical attributes that help this population set do well in other sports would help them do well in soccer, including mental processing quickness, reaction time, and superior motor control mapping and skill, to go along with the strength and speed needed to physically perform. That creme de la creme talent disproportionately goes to other sports in this country.

US Soccer can't fix that problem. It's cultural.

How much of a population do you need to play soccer to be successful? Croatia has only 4 million in total population and made it to the final of the WC. Also, do we fail because other nations field more athletic teams and overwhelm us physically (because our best athletes play other sports) or do we fail because we are inferior technically and tactically? I just don't buy the argument that we fail because our best athletes play other sports. Usain Bolt is faster than anyone in NFL, MLB, or NBA, but he was not able to make it as a professional soccer player despite several tryouts. At the same time, Modric, who is not particularly athletic, won the best player award in soccer last year.

China and India would be men’s WC finalists every four years if population were the main story.

People can choose to believe whatever they wish on this, but that doesn’t make those views reality. The reality is that soccer is at best fourth or fifth behind the other sports mentioned in this country, for the men. There are secondary effects to that, which include that boys aren’t spending their youth dissecting what went right or wrong in every big soccer match (Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, you name it) of the weekend. They do spend the time thinking about last weekends NFL football slate, College football bowl games, pro and college basketball matches, etc. These boys can break down NFL or NBA teams and plays on par with grown men. That’s the culture. If playing soccer in this country were even half as lucrative as the NFL, NBA, and MLB, then it might be different. The reality is that it’s not and therefore there’s no real incentive to focus on soccer. Heroes and the spoils are not in soccer and there is a pitifully small chance of Americans playing in European top soccer leagues vs top American leagues (aforementioned sports and MLS).

Also, not sure why Usain Bolt is coming up when it was mentioned that there are mental factors that play in, including reaction time and quickness in decision making, to go along with the speed and strength. The mentally gifted male athletes in the US aren’t predominantly choosing soccer either, and these mental traits are needed in other sports.

It’s fine to use a population argument, all things being equal. But they aren’t. I would bet any amount of money that if the US had a soccer culture and professional environment similar to that of Europe, with no 3-4 other sports trumping soccer, we would be dominant on the men’s side.

That’s just not reality.

Can we agree that soccer is a more complicated sport to be good at than football, baseball or basketball?

Not only that, in soccer, every players (even keepers to some degree) have to manipulate and control a consistently moving object using their feet while making decisions, not just hold on to the object in a hand or throw/hit it and then catch it. Basketball is the closest to soccer among the three. So the fact that a person is an elite player in football or baseball does not automatically qualify him to be an elite soccer player.

[Anonymous]

Even in basketball, once you cross half-court you can’t go back to make space. It’s much more direct

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s no one’s “fault.” It’s the culture. The US simply doesn’t have the pervasive soccer culture that other countries do. I often wonder how the landscape might look if Soccer were the primary sport in this country, over football, baseball, basketball, and hockey.

Unfortunately, it just isn’t.

The US does not have a "pervasive" soccer culture, but it does have millions of people who are passionate about the game. The problem is that the USSF has failed miserably in its mission to advance soccer in this country, the latest coaching hire being an ample proof of that.

Unfortunately, millions of passionate fans doesn't equate to the best available talent choosing to play soccer over the population at large. The best athletes in this country still choose other sports. A cultural/social construct. It's not to say that all the best athletes are in other sports, but disproportionately this is the case. It's not just about physical brawn either; the same physical attributes that help this population set do well in other sports would help them do well in soccer, including mental processing quickness, reaction time, and superior motor control mapping and skill, to go along with the strength and speed needed to physically perform. That creme de la creme talent disproportionately goes to other sports in this country.

US Soccer can't fix that problem. It's cultural.

How much of a population do you need to play soccer to be successful? Croatia has only 4 million in total population and made it to the final of the WC. Also, do we fail because other nations field more athletic teams and overwhelm us physically (because our best athletes play other sports) or do we fail because we are inferior technically and tactically? I just don't buy the argument that we fail because our best athletes play other sports. Usain Bolt is faster than anyone in NFL, MLB, or NBA, but he was not able to make it as a professional soccer player despite several tryouts. At the same time, Modric, who is not particularly athletic, won the best player award in soccer last year.

China and India would be men’s WC finalists every four years if population were the main story.

People can choose to believe whatever they wish on this, but that doesn’t make those views reality. The reality is that soccer is at best fourth or fifth behind the other sports mentioned in this country, for the men. There are secondary effects to that, which include that boys aren’t spending their youth dissecting what went right or wrong in every big soccer match (Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, you name it) of the weekend. They do spend the time thinking about last weekends NFL football slate, College football bowl games, pro and college basketball matches, etc. These boys can break down NFL or NBA teams and plays on par with grown men. That’s the culture. If playing soccer in this country were even half as lucrative as the NFL, NBA, and MLB, then it might be different. The reality is that it’s not and therefore there’s no real incentive to focus on soccer. Heroes and the spoils are not in soccer and there is a pitifully small chance of Americans playing in European top soccer leagues vs top American leagues (aforementioned sports and MLS).

Also, not sure why Usain Bolt is coming up when it was mentioned that there are mental factors that play in, including reaction time and quickness in decision making, to go along with the speed and strength. The mentally gifted male athletes in the US aren’t predominantly choosing soccer either, and these mental traits are needed in other sports.

It’s fine to use a population argument, all things being equal. But they aren’t. I would bet any amount of money that if the US had a soccer culture and professional environment similar to that of Europe, with no 3-4 other sports trumping soccer, we would be dominant on the men’s side.

That’s just not reality.

Can we agree that soccer is a more complicated sport to be good at than football, baseball or basketball?

Of course. Soccer is much more fluid than those 3, which tend to be more linear and direct, not to mention the constant stoppages.

One can never touch a football ball before HS and still make it to NFL. Will Never happen in soccer (real football).

[Anonymous]

Sure. Makes it even harder for the US to compete internationally until the culture completes a change. With soccer being at best 4th or 5th on our kids' minds, it's too big an obstacle to overcome.

[Anonymous]

What if we’re looking at the wrong kind of athletes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if we’re looking at the wrong kind of athletes?

We have the right athletes, just not the right culture. The culture is changing with the amount of European soccer on TV now and MLS starting to actually hit some stride. Atlanta is doing great with attendance and other MLS venues are doing great it is just the quality on the field is not quite there. But getting folks into the seats to begin with is an important piece of the puzzle.

We also tend to look at it as a simple equation of "our best athletes play football, basketball, etc". That is a lazy argument and doesn't really speak honestly to the unique qualities of athleticism each sport requires. Not every body type is suited for every sport. A marathon runner will never be great at sprinting events and a sprinter will not make a great marathon runner. We tend to look at soccer potential in kids the same way we look at potential in future basketball and football, i.e. size, speed and strength. And because many of "our" sports like football and basketball have specific demands required for specific positions. Until kids have gone through puberty you have no real idea exactly what sport and position will best suit the athlete. Our sports are more forgiving of late bloomers but heavy skill based sports like soccer are not at all forgiving to kids who start late, at least not on the world stage.

And with all that said, as a country we have a fundamental disrespect for the skills required to play elite international soccer. We approach the game like we do any of our other sports and soccer is unlike any of our sports.