What do Atheists believe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religion (Christianity at least) also teaches you that there's an imaginary man in the sky who is watching you and that his son died for you so you won't suffer in hell for eternity if you believe in him. I'm sure there are better ways to make people good citizens.

Agreed. Religion came out as a way to explain before science. To give people a sense of purpose and provide support when life felt hopeless. Religion divides people. If you're in one religion, you're not in another. I was raised protestant but am now an atheist. If there was some super powerful amazing being, they would not want you to worship them. Hopefully they would want you to be a better person and respect "their creation" but singing the praise of a deity is vain which we see in a President but I would not expect in a deity. Time of worship would be better spent learning life lessons of how to be better people not singing "Jesus loves me".

That's not the only reason religion developed. Religions were also ways of enshrining values and teaching those values. People get fixated on whether the stories are literally true. But I'm not sure that's what matters. In many cases, the stories (stories of gods in polytheistic religions and stories of Christ and saints in Christianity and Old Testament stories in Judaism and stories in Islam) are ways of communicating and passing on values and ideals.

What's that you say? Religions were used to enshrine and pass on values and ideals?

That would mean, wouldn't it, that those values and ideals pre-existed religion, right? Huh.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be snarky with you. But there are multiple posters in this thread, and in this forum, who believe that religion is the *source* of values, not a means to pass along values, and who simply don't believe that anyone who is not religious (or is [gasp] an atheist) can hold the same value system as a religious person. But under your framework (which I agree with), those values were one of the sources of religion, not the other way around.

Any historical sources describing morals and values of pre-Christian world?

[Anonymous]

The Ten Commandments were kind of a big deal because the commands from God contained in them set forth new morals and values from ancient times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religion (Christianity at least) also teaches you that there's an imaginary man in the sky who is watching you and that his son died for you so you won't suffer in hell for eternity if you believe in him. I'm sure there are better ways to make people good citizens.

Agreed. Religion came out as a way to explain before science. To give people a sense of purpose and provide support when life felt hopeless. Religion divides people. If you're in one religion, you're not in another. I was raised protestant but am now an atheist. If there was some super powerful amazing being, they would not want you to worship them. Hopefully they would want you to be a better person and respect "their creation" but singing the praise of a deity is vain which we see in a President but I would not expect in a deity. Time of worship would be better spent learning life lessons of how to be better people not singing "Jesus loves me".

That's not the only reason religion developed. Religions were also ways of enshrining values and teaching those values. People get fixated on whether the stories are literally true. But I'm not sure that's what matters. In many cases, the stories (stories of gods in polytheistic religions and stories of Christ and saints in Christianity and Old Testament stories in Judaism and stories in Islam) are ways of communicating and passing on values and ideals.

What's that you say? Religions were used to enshrine and pass on values and ideals?

That would mean, wouldn't it, that those values and ideals pre-existed religion, right? Huh.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be snarky with you. But there are multiple posters in this thread, and in this forum, who believe that religion is the *source* of values, not a means to pass along values, and who simply don't believe that anyone who is not religious (or is [gasp] an atheist) can hold the same value system as a religious person. But under your framework (which I agree with), those values were one of the sources of religion, not the other way around.

Any historical sources describing morals and values of pre-Christian world?

The entirety of the Old Testament? The Code of Hammurabai?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religion (Christianity at least) also teaches you that there's an imaginary man in the sky who is watching you and that his son died for you so you won't suffer in hell for eternity if you believe in him. I'm sure there are better ways to make people good citizens.

Agreed. Religion came out as a way to explain before science. To give people a sense of purpose and provide support when life felt hopeless. Religion divides people. If you're in one religion, you're not in another. I was raised protestant but am now an atheist. If there was some super powerful amazing being, they would not want you to worship them. Hopefully they would want you to be a better person and respect "their creation" but singing the praise of a deity is vain which we see in a President but I would not expect in a deity. Time of worship would be better spent learning life lessons of how to be better people not singing "Jesus loves me".

That's not the only reason religion developed. Religions were also ways of enshrining values and teaching those values. People get fixated on whether the stories are literally true. But I'm not sure that's what matters. In many cases, the stories (stories of gods in polytheistic religions and stories of Christ and saints in Christianity and Old Testament stories in Judaism and stories in Islam) are ways of communicating and passing on values and ideals.

What's that you say? Religions were used to enshrine and pass on values and ideals?

That would mean, wouldn't it, that those values and ideals pre-existed religion, right? Huh.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be snarky with you. But there are multiple posters in this thread, and in this forum, who believe that religion is the *source* of values, not a means to pass along values, and who simply don't believe that anyone who is not religious (or is [gasp] an atheist) can hold the same value system as a religious person. But under your framework (which I agree with), those values were one of the sources of religion, not the other way around.

Any historical sources describing morals and values of pre-Christian world?

The Vedas? Confuscius? Greek philosophy generally, e.g., Socrates or even before that pluralism and sophistry. These are just some examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religion (Christianity at least) also teaches you that there's an imaginary man in the sky who is watching you and that his son died for you so you won't suffer in hell for eternity if you believe in him. I'm sure there are better ways to make people good citizens.

Agreed. Religion came out as a way to explain before science. To give people a sense of purpose and provide support when life felt hopeless. Religion divides people. If you're in one religion, you're not in another. I was raised protestant but am now an atheist. If there was some super powerful amazing being, they would not want you to worship them. Hopefully they would want you to be a better person and respect "their creation" but singing the praise of a deity is vain which we see in a President but I would not expect in a deity. Time of worship would be better spent learning life lessons of how to be better people not singing "Jesus loves me".

That's not the only reason religion developed. Religions were also ways of enshrining values and teaching those values. People get fixated on whether the stories are literally true. But I'm not sure that's what matters. In many cases, the stories (stories of gods in polytheistic religions and stories of Christ and saints in Christianity and Old Testament stories in Judaism and stories in Islam) are ways of communicating and passing on values and ideals.

What's that you say? Religions were used to enshrine and pass on values and ideals?

That would mean, wouldn't it, that those values and ideals pre-existed religion, right? Huh.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be snarky with you. But there are multiple posters in this thread, and in this forum, who believe that religion is the *source* of values, not a means to pass along values, and who simply don't believe that anyone who is not religious (or is [gasp] an atheist) can hold the same value system as a religious person. But under your framework (which I agree with), those values were one of the sources of religion, not the other way around.

Any historical sources describing morals and values of pre-Christian world?

The entirety of the Old Testament? The Code of Hammurabai?

Aeschylus? Socrates? Cicero?

[Anonymous]

Confucius?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religion (Christianity at least) also teaches you that there's an imaginary man in the sky who is watching you and that his son died for you so you won't suffer in hell for eternity if you believe in him. I'm sure there are better ways to make people good citizens.

Agreed. Religion came out as a way to explain before science. To give people a sense of purpose and provide support when life felt hopeless. Religion divides people. If you're in one religion, you're not in another. I was raised protestant but am now an atheist. If there was some super powerful amazing being, they would not want you to worship them. Hopefully they would want you to be a better person and respect "their creation" but singing the praise of a deity is vain which we see in a President but I would not expect in a deity. Time of worship would be better spent learning life lessons of how to be better people not singing "Jesus loves me".

This is the part that always befuddles me. As elementary school kids, we all learned about, for example, the Greek gods and goddesses, and had no trouble seeing how they were conceived to explain natural phenomena - Apollo's chariot pulls the sun across the sky, Zeus is responsible for lightning, etc. Other cultures had different gods and explanations. But a lot of those same people, while recognizing the explanatory connection between ancient religions and natural phenomena, are absolutely convinced of the veracity of their own faith.

The dichotomy is striking, and makes no sense at all.

I was raised as an every Sunday churchgoing Christian and read Edith Hamilton in 4th or 5th grade and started to wonder then. I was done after I wrote a paper on relics for my 7th grade history class at my Christian school.

What did you discover writing your paper?

It took me longer to shed the pretense of faith. I was scared of the rapture so I tried rededicating my life to god, getting saved again, etc. It took years of trying before I just embraced the fact I didn’t believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religion (Christianity at least) also teaches you that there's an imaginary man in the sky who is watching you and that his son died for you so you won't suffer in hell for eternity if you believe in him. I'm sure there are better ways to make people good citizens.

Agreed. Religion came out as a way to explain before science. To give people a sense of purpose and provide support when life felt hopeless. Religion divides people. If you're in one religion, you're not in another. I was raised protestant but am now an atheist. If there was some super powerful amazing being, they would not want you to worship them. Hopefully they would want you to be a better person and respect "their creation" but singing the praise of a deity is vain which we see in a President but I would not expect in a deity. Time of worship would be better spent learning life lessons of how to be better people not singing "Jesus loves me".

That's not the only reason religion developed. Religions were also ways of enshrining values and teaching those values. People get fixated on whether the stories are literally true. But I'm not sure that's what matters. In many cases, the stories (stories of gods in polytheistic religions and stories of Christ and saints in Christianity and Old Testament stories in Judaism and stories in Islam) are ways of communicating and passing on values and ideals.

What's that you say? Religions were used to enshrine and pass on values and ideals?

That would mean, wouldn't it, that those values and ideals pre-existed religion, right? Huh.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be snarky with you. But there are multiple posters in this thread, and in this forum, who believe that religion is the *source* of values, not a means to pass along values, and who simply don't believe that anyone who is not religious (or is [gasp] an atheist) can hold the same value system as a religious person. But under your framework (which I agree with), those values were one of the sources of religion, not the other way around.

DP

Isn’t that the CS Lewis argument?

I disagree that there are absolute right and wrongs. Rather, over the roughly 10,000 years humans have been coming together to form society that it became observable that certain habits led to better outcomes for the society and over time those habits became codified into rules. While at the same time stories were being told, retold, embellished, exaggerated that explained the natural phenomena that wasn’t explainable at the time. These began to overlap and you see religions emerge.

[Anonymous]

Most people in modern times don’t know philosophy or ancient codes or laws.

Most people do know of the Ten Commandments.

That’s why many people think there is perhaps something special about them, and why they have permeated and influenced so many over hundreds of years after they were written.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people in modern times don’t know philosophy or ancient codes or laws.

Most people do know of the Ten Commandments.

That’s why many people think there is perhaps something special about them, and why they have permeated and influenced so many over hundreds of years after they were written.

Your ignorance is breathtaking.

[Anonymous]

Luke 6:31 New International Version (NIV)

31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people in modern times don’t know philosophy or ancient codes or laws.

Most people do know of the Ten Commandments.

That’s why many people think there is perhaps something special about them, and why they have permeated and influenced so many over hundreds of years after they were written.

Maybe the world would be a better place if people didn't eschew history and philosophy. The Ten Commandments weren't God's instructions to Christians. They were God's instructions to Abraham long before there was a Christ, and went on to be central to Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people in modern times don’t know philosophy or ancient codes or laws.

Most people do know of the Ten Commandments.

That’s why many people think there is perhaps something special about them, and why they have permeated and influenced so many over hundreds of years after they were written.

Maybe the world would be a better place if people didn't eschew history and philosophy. The Ten Commandments weren't God's instructions to Christians. They were God's instructions to Abraham long before there was a Christ, and went on to be central to Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

Christ has always existed.

There are three pillars to the Trinitarian understanding of God’s nature.

Only one true God exists, who is Yahweh (YHWH) of the Old Testament or theos of the New Testament—the Creator of all that exists.
God includes three divine Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father or Holy Spirit, and the Spirit is not the Father or the Son.
These three distinct (but not separate) persons equally share the one divine being, God, and that they are eternal, co-equal and co-essential. Thus, God is one in essence and one in being, but exists in three persons. (We must always be careful not to understand the “Persons” of the Godhead like persons in the human sphere, where one person is separate from another.)

God sent Jesus in form of Man to teach and gather the lost Jewish people.

It speaks to how powerful the Ten Commandments are if they are central to the 3 major religions of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people in modern times don’t know philosophy or ancient codes or laws.

Most people do know of the Ten Commandments.

That’s why many people think there is perhaps something special about them, and why they have permeated and influenced so many over hundreds of years after they were written.

Your ignorance is breathtaking.

How so?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you explain your thought and feelings about life?

I believe in the inherent worth and dignity of each person.