Can achievement gap be closed with extra tutoring?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Academic achievement gap = Parenting gap

Don’t have time to parent? Don’t have kids.

Well this genius has just solved all of our societal ills right here with this one.

[Anonymous]

Many parents think the parenting is providing the basics. School will take care of the education. So it's really a gap in expectations. If you expect 100% of your child's education to be taken care of by their school, there is most likely going to be a gap forever. When we meet with parents in kindergarten at my Title 1 school, many of them are surprised and even shocked that their child is below grade level. "How can they be below grade level when they just started school?" They think that school will teach them all that they need to know.

[Anonymous]

I know lots of families who don't continue education at home, just let their kids play and don't do any supplementation or museum trips. Their kids have As and Bs. There probably is something else going on in addition to lack of parental education at home.

Lower income SES kids may be at a higher risk for undiagnosed learning disabilities. MCPS is horrible at supporting LDs and UMV parents have to fight/spend hundreds on advocates to get basic services. I'm sure many of these kids suffer from undiagnosed LDs.

IQ is another factor. Lower SES parents may be more likely to have lower IQs than the doctors and other PHd parents. Low IQ can be frustrating for kids who can't grasp the material at the point its presented but they see other kids getting it.

Tutoring can make a difference but it has to be the right type of tutoring geared to help the learners that are in the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know lots of families who don't continue education at home, just let their kids play and don't do any supplementation or museum trips. Their kids have As and Bs. There probably is something else going on in addition to lack of parental education at home.

Lower income SES kids may be at a higher risk for undiagnosed learning disabilities. MCPS is horrible at supporting LDs and UMV parents have to fight/spend hundreds on advocates to get basic services. I'm sure many of these kids suffer from undiagnosed LDs.

IQ is another factor. Lower SES parents may be more likely to have lower IQs than the doctors and other PHd parents. Low IQ can be frustrating for kids who can't grasp the material at the point its presented but they see other kids getting it.

Tutoring can make a difference but it has to be the right type of tutoring geared to help the learners that are in the room.

This is not difficult in public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think differentiation is the key. The floor needs to be higher. But then there should be no bar on acceleration.

Achievement gap is not the issue. The real issue is that the lower performing students need to be brought up to a minimum functional level.and all kids need to be educated to their full capacity.

Immigrants without legal standing need to pay a fee for getting their kids educated.

Hear hear!

The bolded is unconstitutional. This is settled law, folks.

DP.. some parents in foreign countries pay tuition to send their kids to public schools here. Are you saying even those kids could not pay tuition and just go to school here for free? d Why bother with tuition then?

Schools wouldn't deny them an education, but they would have to pay tuition to go, just like those other kids from foreign countries. I don't see it as any different. If you are not a legal resident of the US, you should pay tuition to send your kids to the public schools here.

So, there is a very small group of foreign families that pay to use the public schools in the US because they maintain their official residence abroad, and paying tuition is part of the diplomatic agreement with the United States.

That's different from kids who may be undocumented, or who are US citizens with undocumented parents. The US Supreme Court has ruled that public schools must provide a free education to every child regardless of immigration status. Whether a child DOES pay tution as part of their country's diplomatic agreement with the United States is immaterial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many parents think the parenting is providing the basics. School will take care of the education. So it's really a gap in expectations. If you expect 100% of your child's education to be taken care of by their school, there is most likely going to be a gap forever. When we meet with parents in kindergarten at my Title 1 school, many of them are surprised and even shocked that their child is below grade level. "How can they be below grade level when they just started school?" They think that school will teach them all that they need to know.

That is what my parents thought in the 1970s, and so did almost everyone else's parents, in a public school system in a university town in the Midwest. Most of us went on to advanced degrees and professional careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents think the parenting is providing the basics. School will take care of the education. So it's really a gap in expectations. If you expect 100% of your child's education to be taken care of by their school, there is most likely going to be a gap forever. When we meet with parents in kindergarten at my Title 1 school, many of them are surprised and even shocked that their child is below grade level. "How can they be below grade level when they just started school?" They think that school will teach them all that they need to know.

That is what my parents thought in the 1970s, and so did almost everyone else's parents, in a public school system in a university town in the Midwest. Most of us went on to advanced degrees and professional careers.

How many teacher student ratio that was? Teacher then had more authority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know lots of families who don't continue education at home, just let their kids play and don't do any supplementation or museum trips. Their kids have As and Bs. There probably is something else going on in addition to lack of parental education at home.

Lower income SES kids may be at a higher risk for undiagnosed learning disabilities. MCPS is horrible at supporting LDs and UMV parents have to fight/spend hundreds on advocates to get basic services. I'm sure many of these kids suffer from undiagnosed LDs.

IQ is another factor. Lower SES parents may be more likely to have lower IQs than the doctors and other PHd parents. Low IQ can be frustrating for kids who can't grasp the material at the point its presented but they see other kids getting it.

Tutoring can make a difference but it has to be the right type of tutoring geared to help the learners that are in the room.

I wouldn't put much stock in this. Honestly.

My kid sailed through ES, and easily gets As (and a few Bs) in 5th grade. Never ever brought home an I, and not a single C this year since they went back to actual grades. But, this board made me look at her work a little more critically, so I printed off some writing assignments from Google Classroom, and looker more closely at the worksheets she was bringing home. The writing assignments have received little to no feedback, and some of them are pretty bad (IMO). Granted, I'm not a teacher, but I feel that by 5th grade, she should have some of the basic grammar rules down.

My point is just that I think the bar is set somewhat low for As/Bs in ES. Not sure what will happen in MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents think the parenting is providing the basics. School will take care of the education. So it's really a gap in expectations. If you expect 100% of your child's education to be taken care of by their school, there is most likely going to be a gap forever. When we meet with parents in kindergarten at my Title 1 school, many of them are surprised and even shocked that their child is below grade level. "How can they be below grade level when they just started school?" They think that school will teach them all that they need to know.

That is what my parents thought in the 1970s, and so did almost everyone else's parents, in a public school system in a university town in the Midwest. Most of us went on to advanced degrees and professional careers.

This was before the "rising tide of mediocrity" hit in the mid 1980s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents think the parenting is providing the basics. School will take care of the education. So it's really a gap in expectations. If you expect 100% of your child's education to be taken care of by their school, there is most likely going to be a gap forever. When we meet with parents in kindergarten at my Title 1 school, many of them are surprised and even shocked that their child is below grade level. "How can they be below grade level when they just started school?" They think that school will teach them all that they need to know.

That is what my parents thought in the 1970s, and so did almost everyone else's parents, in a public school system in a university town in the Midwest. Most of us went on to advanced degrees and professional careers.

We live in different times due to global competition. I wish folks would stop comparing the US now to the "good old days". I grew up in the 70's./80's. A lot of the students that went on to top colleges back then probably wouldn't get in today.

Back then, rote learning was the thing. Terrible way to teach. Back then, we had more factory jobs, and people could live a comfortable middle class life with such jobs. Not so much anymore in many places in this country.

STEM wasn't as a big a deal back then as it is today.

Please step out of the 70's time warp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents think the parenting is providing the basics. School will take care of the education. So it's really a gap in expectations. If you expect 100% of your child's education to be taken care of by their school, there is most likely going to be a gap forever. When we meet with parents in kindergarten at my Title 1 school, many of them are surprised and even shocked that their child is below grade level. "How can they be below grade level when they just started school?" They think that school will teach them all that they need to know.

That is what my parents thought in the 1970s, and so did almost everyone else's parents, in a public school system in a university town in the Midwest. Most of us went on to advanced degrees and professional careers.

How many teacher student ratio that was? Teacher then had more authority.

30 or more students per class, no aides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents think the parenting is providing the basics. School will take care of the education. So it's really a gap in expectations. If you expect 100% of your child's education to be taken care of by their school, there is most likely going to be a gap forever. When we meet with parents in kindergarten at my Title 1 school, many of them are surprised and even shocked that their child is below grade level. "How can they be below grade level when they just started school?" They think that school will teach them all that they need to know.

That is what my parents thought in the 1970s, and so did almost everyone else's parents, in a public school system in a university town in the Midwest. Most of us went on to advanced degrees and professional careers.

How many teacher student ratio that was? Teacher then had more authority.

30 or more students per class, no aides.

Back then, man can be middle-class and raise a family with blue-collar jobs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents think the parenting is providing the basics. School will take care of the education. So it's really a gap in expectations. If you expect 100% of your child's education to be taken care of by their school, there is most likely going to be a gap forever. When we meet with parents in kindergarten at my Title 1 school, many of them are surprised and even shocked that their child is below grade level. "How can they be below grade level when they just started school?" They think that school will teach them all that they need to know.

That is what my parents thought in the 1970s, and so did almost everyone else's parents, in a public school system in a university town in the Midwest. Most of us went on to advanced degrees and professional careers.

How many teacher student ratio that was? Teacher then had more authority.

30 or more students per class, no aides.

Back then, man can be middle-class and raise a family with blue-collar jobs

What does that have to do with the idea that the parents raise the kids (I don't know if the term "parenting" had been invented yet) and the schools take care of the education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think differentiation is the key. The floor needs to be higher. But then there should be no bar on acceleration.

Achievement gap is not the issue. The real issue is that the lower performing students need to be brought up to a minimum functional level.and all kids need to be educated to their full capacity.

Immigrants without legal standing need to pay a fee for getting their kids educated.

Plyler v. Doe (US Supreme Court - 1982) - Held: A Texas statute which withholds from local school districts any state funds for the education of children who were not "legally admitted" into the United States, and which authorizes local school districts to deny enrollment to such children, violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Read more here : https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/457/202

Denying illegal aliens children acces to public education or trying to charge them is unconstitutional. Not gonna happen.

And, despite what Betsey DeVos seems to think, calling ICE on illegal alien students is also illegal. See -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2018/05/23/astounding-ignorance-of-the-law-civil-rights-groups-slam-devos-for-saying-schools-can-report-undocumented-students/?utm_term=.38dd0fcda34a

PP, your ignorance of the law is also astounding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No it isn’t. Sending them outside all day doesn’t involve screens. My kids go out and bike all day with friends. They go watch soccer games, go to playgrounds. Hike in the woods behind the houses. Sometimes play capture the flag in the cul de sac. There are no need for screens or any structure when you have friends. That is the part parents seem to forget. The hours of endless fun you had with friends. Learning to be yourself instead of a robot on a parent schedule. My son is 9 this year and is old enough to bike to the pool on his own with friends. 8 is the youngest for our pool, but most parents won’t let them go that young. This year he has 3 other friends allowed. So excited for him!

So, all you need to solve the achievement gap is enough money for one parent not to work all summer, a pool membership, and a safe neighborhood with sidewalks within biking distance of a swimming pool.

EASY. If only all those poor people had thought of this simple solution.

Can you name all the unsafe neighborhoods in Montgomery County where you can't ride a bike or play in playgrounds once they are 8yr old? This isn't SE DC.
County or city pools are $5 to enter and they have very discounted memberships for kids on FARM
Most new neighborhoods have HOA that pay for the pool already. If you are in HUD, you have full use without pay
Many areas have playground camps which cost $200 for most of the summer and even cheaper if you are FARMS
Many parents rotate shifts so there is a parent home in the summer
Many kids stay home without parents as it is legal in MD after 8yrs old.

So sick of the excuses. Find a way.

I almost hate people like you. You have no idea of any existence other than your own and have no idea why people do not have the options or make the choices that you make. I almost hate you but in the end I feel sorry for you.

NP - And some of us have actually BEEN poor and we are saying that you and your romantic notions of the poor as victims does NO ONE any favors. Those of us who have been poor keep saying that there are lots of ways to be poor. You can have a disorganized, chaotic home where the parent trades the food stamp money for cash to spend on booze and cigarettes, etc. and sends their child to school without the free coat he/she received from the school "closet" the last time it snowed. These are the parents who stick their kids in front of the TV and then curse at them or hit them when they "act up". Or you can have a home that is small and modest, but clean and neat, where there are simple meals everyday. In these homes, homework and good behavior are expected. These are choices and have nothing to do with the amount of money coming into the household. Being poor sucks; it is stressful. But many of the ill effects of poverty are due to behavioral choices. Yes, there is still some racism, but it is unimportant compared to that experienced during the 40s, 50s and 60s, when kids endured crappy segregated schools and became doctors, lawyers, engineers and professors. It is not an excuse. Excusing bad behavior and lazy habits in poor kids only dooms them to repeat the cycle. You are not kind and not compassionate when you do this...