Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait... public school doesn't stand for giving the best education to fit the needs of the students?

+1.

OP is scary...tell me he/she is a North Korean troll.

[Anonymous]

There is separation everywhere in society. AAP is about meeting the needs of highly able children in the school. At least that is something that is based on merit and hard work, instead of race, money, gender or sexual orientation.

In other words, there is no bar to any child getting into AAP if they have the smarts for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is separation everywhere in society. AAP is about meeting the needs of highly able children in the school. At least that is something that is based on merit and hard work, instead of race, money, gender or sexual orientation.

In other words, there is no bar to any child getting into AAP if they have the smarts for it.

No it's not. It's about making parents of above average, affluent, hothoused kids feel special. The highly able children are still bored out of their minds with the slow pace of AAP and have to seek outside enrichment to have their needs met.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me again how AAP is different from travel sports? No one complains about that.

Travel sports teams would be akin to having advanced math classes or leveled reading groups. No one is arguing against those. AAP is more like having your kid be declared to be "gifted" in sports in general as a 7 year old, automatically getting a seat on any and all sports teams through middle school, and not having to play on the same fields ever as the non "sports gifted" kids.

Funny but I don't see anywhere FCPS AAP website has used word "gifted" except in GBRS! Where did you learn AAP is for gifted children?

Um... It's the program used to fulfill the state mandate of providing gifted education. Hence, it's intended to meet the needs of gifted children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. I have no fears of "too much diversity". I work in Falls Church VA (7 corners), my husband works in NW DC (near American University). Want to be in VA because I have the more flexible work schedule and can run and get them if they get sick. Hence looking in Arlington and Fairfax. Don't want McLean or N. Arlington because that wouldn't help our efforts to be in a more diverse community. Gees....people on this forum are so suspicious of motives and seem to want to question everyone's intentions. Why is it so incomprehensible to be genuinely interested in diversity, non-elitism and Fairfax schools (because of the price of homes and commuting benefits)? The attitudes of the parents on this forum (which I assume are largely in Fairfax AAP) are making Arlington look more attractive. I have posed questions about Arlington on a different forum and they actually nicely answer with out questioning the reasons for the question.

OP, you didn't ask a nice question. You're not going to get nice answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. I have no fears of "too much diversity". I work in Falls Church VA (7 corners), my husband works in NW DC (near American University). Want to be in VA because I have the more flexible work schedule and can run and get them if they get sick. Hence looking in Arlington and Fairfax. Don't want McLean or N. Arlington because that wouldn't help our efforts to be in a more diverse community. Gees....people on this forum are so suspicious of motives and seem to want to question everyone's intentions. Why is it so incomprehensible to be genuinely interested in diversity, non-elitism and Fairfax schools (because of the price of homes and commuting benefits)? The attitudes of the parents on this forum (which I assume are largely in Fairfax AAP) are making Arlington look more attractive. I have posed questions about Arlington on a different forum and they actually nicely answer with out questioning the reasons for the question.

OP, you didn't ask a nice question. You're not going to get nice answers.

Op, you're full of it. Take your kids to Bailey's or Beech Tree. You'll get plenty diversity there. Then you'll have a super short commute, and a super short drive when they get sick. (As if kids get sick daily! Pff) You can work and live at 7corners.

Oh, but we FX moms have been so bad and so naughty that you'll move to 97% white Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me again how AAP is different from travel sports? No one complains about that.

Travel sports teams would be akin to having advanced math classes or leveled reading groups. No one is arguing against those. AAP is more like having your kid be declared to be "gifted" in sports in general as a 7 year old, automatically getting a seat on any and all sports teams through middle school, and not having to play on the same fields ever as the non "sports gifted" kids.

Funny but I don't see anywhere FCPS AAP website has used word "gifted" except in GBRS! Where did you learn AAP is for gifted children?

New poster here. Since I've had kids in AAP since the time when it was still called GT, I can tell you that one year (I'm thinking it was 2008) they changed the name because they wanted to emphasize and clarify that it was a program for kids who are academically gifted, not gifted in arts/music/athletics. That's what they told me then. Educators like to rename things, for some reason. Why did one of my high school principals change "lunch" to "nutrition break"? It's what educators do. . . .

And I'm another who was a gifted child who was mostly stuck in regular classrooms waiting around, learning nothing there except how to float along doing nothing. Gifted programs do make a difference, especially for lower-income kids like mine, who were thrilled to leave their high-FARMS base schools where the overworked teachers spend all day putting out fires and trying to appease the SOL gods.

[Anonymous]

I'm another who was gifted and stuck in regular classrooms. I don't think that grouping me in a gifted class with the top 20% of my classmates would have made one bit of difference or would have been substantially different from just switching classes. I still would have been bored and well above the instructional level in that classroom.

By including almost 20% of the students in the grade, the current system creates elitism and separation without even serving the kids who are actually gifted and need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, do you know which neighborhood OP is looking to move into? Can you speak for all of FX County?

I'm curious if OP will move to some schools rated as 1-5 on great schools, or is she looking to move to a neighborhood with school ratings more comparable to FCC. Maybe, since OP loves diversity so much she should move her kids to some school where 90% of the students don't speak English. That will provide her true diversity, and a chance to do a lot of good.

PP, also, if your kids are in HS, that means that they would have been part of the old program which was truly GT, and not expanded like today's program. And what's your school rating? From the way you speak, I bet it is 8-10.

OP here. Because of commuting proximity to our work, we are looking at the Pimmit Hills area, specifically, Westgate Elementary, Lemon Road Elementary, Kilmer MS, and Marshall HS. We are open to other suggestions/ideas. (need to be able to drive into NW DC). We are also looking at Arlington, but housing prices are harder for us there.

Wait - you are looking for a diverse school, and work in DC? And yet you are intent on staying in VA? Why not move to DC? DCPS and DCPCS are diverse.

Oh, I get it - you're opposed to elitism, and want diversity, but not THAT much diversity.

FCC is closer to NW DC than the Pimmit area. So you are not leaving because of commute. Whatever your reasons for moving are, you are afraid that your kid, who is getting top services now and has access to all kinds of peers, will no longer receive those services and access those peers in the new school, and you are picking up an ethical argument.

Also as the second quoted poster suggested, you can move to NW DC. Schools are very diverse there. Or is that kind of diversity too much for you?

OP here. I have no fears of "too much diversity". I work in Falls Church VA (7 corners), my husband works in NW DC (near American University). Want to be in VA because I have the more flexible work schedule and can run and get them if they get sick. Hence looking in Arlington and Fairfax. Don't want McLean or N. Arlington because that wouldn't help our efforts to be in a more diverse community. Gees....people on this forum are so suspicious of motives and seem to want to question everyone's intentions. Why is it so incomprehensible to be genuinely interested in diversity, non-elitism and Fairfax schools (because of the price of homes and commuting benefits)? The attitudes of the parents on this forum (which I assume are largely in Fairfax AAP) are making Arlington look more attractive. I have posed questions about Arlington on a different forum and they actually nicely answer with out questioning the reasons for the question.

Then why not move to S Arl or Alex City?

Do you even know what happens in "diverse" schools? Eventually as the years pass, white kids play with white kids, black kids with black kids, etc. they all exist alongside each other and the socioeconomic issues are still there. There is not some great utopia. Poverty isn't a cute or fun charity project for your child. Poverty becomes a real issue in a highly diverse school for your child and every child - lower learning standards, less teacher time, more disruptive classrooms. These things are not myths. BTDT

If you are keen on diversity, before making such a bizarre grand gesture as moving only for it's sake, why not do something normal like increase the diversity of your close friend group? Wouldn't that be a more true and authenticate way to diversify your life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me again how AAP is different from travel sports? No one complains about that.

Travel sports teams would be akin to having advanced math classes or leveled reading groups. No one is arguing against those. AAP is more like having your kid be declared to be "gifted" in sports in general as a 7 year old, automatically getting a seat on any and all sports teams through middle school, and not having to play on the same fields ever as the non "sports gifted" kids.

Funny but I don't see anywhere FCPS AAP website has used word "gifted" except in GBRS! Where did you learn AAP is for gifted children?

New poster here. Since I've had kids in AAP since the time when it was still called GT, I can tell you that one year (I'm thinking it was 2008) they changed the name because they wanted to emphasize and clarify that it was a program for kids who are academically gifted, not gifted in arts/music/athletics. That's what they told me then. Educators like to rename things, for some reason. Why did one of my high school principals change "lunch" to "nutrition break"? It's what educators do. . . .

And I'm another who was a gifted child who was mostly stuck in regular classrooms waiting around, learning nothing there except how to float along doing nothing. Gifted programs do make a difference, especially for lower-income kids like mine, who were thrilled to leave their high-FARMS base schools where the overworked teachers spend all day putting out fires and trying to appease the SOL gods.

I thought they changed the name to label the services and not the child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I thought they changed the name to label the services and not the child

If so, that worked well. Kids absolutely label themselves as AAP, and parents label their kids as AAP. Nothing has changed, except the specific letters used in the label.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I thought they changed the name to label the services and not the child

If so, that worked well. Kids absolutely label themselves as AAP, and parents label their kids as AAP. Nothing has changed, except the specific letters used in the label.

Ok but they've been labeled as receiving advanced academics as opposed to gifted and I personally think that's an improvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm another who was gifted and stuck in regular classrooms. I don't think that grouping me in a gifted class with the top 20% of my classmates would have made one bit of difference or would have been substantially different from just switching classes. I still would have been bored and well above the instructional level in that classroom.

By including almost 20% of the students in the grade, the current system creates elitism and separation without even serving the kids who are actually gifted and need it.

This is what you think, but not what you know.

I have a profoundly gifted child in all areas, who feels a lot better in the AAP classroom, even though DC can handle much much more. DC is not extremely motivated, so DC enjoys where DC is in. The peer group may not all be profoundly gifted, but they're smart enough for my child to be content. Being profoundly gifted can be very isolating, and being able to be with peers closer to your level is very beneficial. There is always someone who gets/laughs with my DC's joke, and DC loves playing with the friends.

Also, keeping gifted children in the regular classroom makes them lazy, because they will think that things are always easy, and when things get hard, which they inevitably do for everyone at some point, the gifted child has no work ethic, because the gifted child was not challenged and put to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm another who was gifted and stuck in regular classrooms. I don't think that grouping me in a gifted class with the top 20% of my classmates would have made one bit of difference or would have been substantially different from just switching classes. I still would have been bored and well above the instructional level in that classroom.

By including almost 20% of the students in the grade, the current system creates elitism and separation without even serving the kids who are actually gifted and need it.

This is what you think, but not what you know.

I have a profoundly gifted child in all areas, who feels a lot better in the AAP classroom, even though DC can handle much much more. DC is not extremely motivated, so DC enjoys where DC is in. The peer group may not all be profoundly gifted, but they're smart enough for my child to be content. Being profoundly gifted can be very isolating, and being able to be with peers closer to your level is very beneficial. There is always someone who gets/laughs with my DC's joke, and DC loves playing with the friends.

Also, keeping gifted children in the regular classroom makes them lazy, because they will think that things are always easy, and when things get hard, which they inevitably do for everyone at some point, the gifted child has no work ethic, because the gifted child was not challenged and put to work.

Meh. Having AAP be so watered down that gifted kids coast through with minimal work isn't solving the problem. If your child is profoundly gifted, he would be an extreme outlier in AAP.

The typical AAP kid is maybe mid 120s on the cogat and 1 or so year ahead in language arts and math. These kids hardly have extreme academic or social needs that require being separated from the rest of the school in a full time gifted program. And yet, it seems like just about every parent on here is convinced that her Larlo "needs" full time AAP centers and couldn't possibly handle any of the other potential solutions, such as flexible grouping or LLIV at all base schools. I have no grudge against parents for trying to get their children into AAP as the system stands now. I just wish (most) people would just admit that their kids want and benefit from AAP, but don't need it, they enjoy having their kid labeled as "gifted", and they're happy to limit their child's peer group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Meh. Having AAP be so watered down that gifted kids coast through with minimal work isn't solving the problem. If your child is profoundly gifted, he would be an extreme outlier in AAP.

The typical AAP kid is maybe mid 120s on the cogat and 1 or so year ahead in language arts and math. These kids hardly have extreme academic or social needs that require being separated from the rest of the school in a full time gifted program. And yet, it seems like just about every parent on here is convinced that her Larlo "needs" full time AAP centers and couldn't possibly handle any of the other potential solutions, such as flexible grouping or LLIV at all base schools. I have no grudge against parents for trying to get their children into AAP as the system stands now. I just wish (most) people would just admit that their kids want and benefit from AAP, but don't need it, they enjoy having their kid labeled as "gifted", and they're happy to limit their child's peer group.

With a cutoff of 132, this seems like an overly-broad statement. I assume that you are referring to parent referred children as "typical AAP kids". Other than neighborhood gossip, I don't know that there's much to support this.