Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The kids need many more activities than school, and they need to maximize the benefit of the time spent, because they have very busy schedules. Its essentially like going to work full time. Would you like to get stuck in a job with low level workers if you're highly educated? Do you lack the skills to function around those people, or is it just not beneficial for you?

You're comparing adult working environments with 8 year olds?! Even countries with rigid and aggressive tracking systems don't start that early. There is still so much developmental flux in children that young, that it is inappropriate to have such a permanent, rigid separation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We're again talking in circles. You clearly think that kids with 120s IQs "need" to be separated from the masses and placed in special classrooms. I don't. Could you please cite some sources showing that above average kids simply cannot function in a regular classroom, even with differentiation in core subjects?

They may function, but they are underserved, and end up wasting their time in class. Stays at school for 7hrs with kids that don't get it is mistreating the gift of time. That's cruel. Than they say that the kids are learning a lot, which they aren't. If they let them stay together and let them play outside in the sun a lot, is be ok with that, but I can afford (time wise) to enrich them when they come home so Larla doesn't get left behind. The kids need many more activities than school, and they need to maximize the benefit of the time spent, because they have very busy schedules. Its essentially like going to work full time. Would you like to get stuck in a job with low level workers if you're highly educated? Do you lack the skills to function around those people, or is it just not beneficial for you?

These same kids were served just fine in 2nd grade with switching classes and flexible grouping. Many of the kids didn't even qualify for the advanced math grouping or were middle-of-the pack within the advanced language arts or advanced math groupings. Meanwhile, kids who are actual outliers and poorly served in 2nd grade will continue to be poorly served in AAP, because the bar has been lowered so much. If 120s Larla simply can't be served in the same school as 110s Carla, then how on earth can 130s or 140s Darla be served in AAP with the 120s kids?

Let me guess... You have a 120s kid, and you're desperately clinging to the notion that your child is so special that (s)he "needs AAP".

Not at our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We're again talking in circles. You clearly think that kids with 120s IQs "need" to be separated from the masses and placed in special classrooms. I don't. Could you please cite some sources showing that above average kids simply cannot function in a regular classroom, even with differentiation in core subjects?

They may function, but they are underserved, and end up wasting their time in class. Stays at school for 7hrs with kids that don't get it is mistreating the gift of time. That's cruel. Than they say that the kids are learning a lot, which they aren't. If they let them stay together and let them play outside in the sun a lot, is be ok with that, but I can afford (time wise) to enrich them when they come home so Larla doesn't get left behind. The kids need many more activities than school, and they need to maximize the benefit of the time spent, because they have very busy schedules. Its essentially like going to work full time. Would you like to get stuck in a job with low level workers if you're highly educated? Do you lack the skills to function around those people, or is it just not beneficial for you?

These same kids were served just fine in 2nd grade with switching classes and flexible grouping. Many of the kids didn't even qualify for the advanced math grouping or were middle-of-the pack within the advanced language arts or advanced math groupings. Meanwhile, kids who are actual outliers and poorly served in 2nd grade will continue to be poorly served in AAP, because the bar has been lowered so much. If 120s Larla simply can't be served in the same school as 110s Carla, then how on earth can 130s or 140s Darla be served in AAP with the 120s kids?

Let me guess... You have a 120s kid, and you're desperately clinging to the notion that your child is so special that (s)he "needs AAP".

I have a 150+ kid, and one 135+ kid. Our school offered differentiation in reading, and not in 2nd grade. My kids were bored to tears in 2nd grade, bc it wasn't helping them. The 150+ one would take math HW to do in class, and was reading/comprehending quantum mechanics so he wouldn't get in trouble. He couldn't share any if his ideas with his classmates. He still has limited sharing possibilities, but life is so much better in AAP. He's still learning a lot from THE 120 kids in his class. My other kid loves his class.

I'd hate AAP to go away, because some who can't get in view it as snobbish.

[Anonymous]

Clarification: differentiation in reading buut not in math in 2nd grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did I speak slow enough for you monolinguals?

Who you're talking to? You were actually not clear in your statement! The only obvious thing was rage.

So arrogant to think that you are above others because of your beliefs about them.

1st quote: why don't you take your kids to your multilingual country and spare your snottiness to the monolinguals?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ what's the point?

I am the pp. Frankly, I used to think that just raising the bar for everyone was the answer. But I realize now that I have had kids, Thai it is not the answer. FWIW, the Eastern European curriculum was based on the assumption that only 30% or so of the top students would go to college and everyone else would be shunted to the vocational track in/after high school. Different kids have different abilities. Some need a more advanced curriculum. Others need the extra help in one subject or another. Unfortunately, differentiation has very negative connotations in this country - people claim that it's racist, classist and what not. Whereas in reality, everyone has different strengths and they should be accommodated as much as possible.

You made the point very clearly. Thanks. The reason I brought it up was to illustrate that no matter the model, it won't work for everyone. The point is, what do you do with the kids that are clueless, do you put them in an advanced curriculum and let them be lost, or do you differentiate their learning, so the can comfortably learn something. The biggest problem is that most parents whose kids aren't advanced can't admit that that is the case, but want every one else to lower their standards. Then they start calling other parents elitist. Also, smart parents will have smart kids, so given the high number of high achiever/smart/well educated parents in parts of the county, you'll have more smarter kids in those areas. Intelligence like every other human attribute is mostly genetic. The same as we inherent physical traits, we also inherent personality and intellectual traits. The problem is that it's a big 'no no' to say that.

If those more affluent areas with a higher number of advanced kids had a different curriculum from the rest of the county, that'd be a big 'no no' too, because it would create disparity in opportunities. Hence we are left with a separate Level of differentiation.

This debate will never end, because there is not a one solution fits all to this problem.

You just said a lot of things people don't want to hear, even though they are all true.

[Anonymous]

One of the reasons AAP might be considered classist and elitist is that the kids are evaluated and placed at young enough ages that their family SES is still a major factor. High SES kids will seem smarter in class and test a bit higher due to their enriched home life, whereas lower SES kids have not had sufficient time in schools to catch up. After those kids have been tracked, the high SES kids end up receiving a better education, whereas kids tracked into lower groups will find it increasingly more challenging to catch up.

Some kids manage to join AAP after 3rd grade, but many of those were already principal placed in Level IV classes. Second grade is a very young age to somewhat rigidly track children. Perhaps the main problem is that no one has managed to develop a test that can accurately identify bright kids with disadvantaged backgrounds.

[Anonymous]

rigidly track children

Tracking should have been eliminated decades ago

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

rigidly track children

Tracking should have been eliminated decades ago

It was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

rigidly track children

Tracking should have been eliminated decades ago

It was.

And schools teach to the lowest common denominator. No wonder so many parents want their kids in AAP

[Anonymous]

Arlington starts their gifted education in kindergarten. People will leave Fairfax if they can't get any advanced services by 3rd grade. It's already a contentious issue that FCPS has dumbed down their curriculum to work with all the ESOL and FARM kids they are taking in.

[Anonymous]

What does FARM stand for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does FARM stand for?

Free and Reduced Meals (lunch and sometimes breakfast) -- it's a proxy for SES/poverty

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arlington starts their gifted education in kindergarten. People will leave Fairfax if they can't get any advanced services by 3rd grade. It's already a contentious issue that FCPS has dumbed down their curriculum to work with all the ESOL and FARM kids they are taking in.

Arlington has a higher FARMS percentage than Fairfax.

Their model is just different. They don't care as much about advanced academics, and they rely on the residential segregation that exists in Arlington to create pools of students that are more likely to be on the same track academically. The parents accept the fact that their kids will not be as challenged academically by the time they complete high school in exchange for not taking the risk that their own kids won't make some cut.

[Anonymous]

^^ thanks!