Sound off if you think AAP is BS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of these AAP kids go on to TJ?

Almost all of the kids at TJ went through AAP.

But only a tiny fraction of AAP kids actually get into TJ. The wheat is definitely separated from the chaff during the TJ admissions process.

Most AAP kids in our pyramid do not apply for TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you have 25 - 50% in AAP, the term "gifted" has lost all meaning.

There are NOT 25-50% of fcps kids in AAP centers/level IV.

You need to try to brush up on facts.

No, you need to brush up on your facts. Of the three schools closest to my house: One has 35%, one has 33% and the other has 25%. There are schools with up to 50% kids in AAP. That is a fact.

If you you know that the three schools closest to your home have these specific numbers, several things are true: (1) you live in a very specific area in the Western part of the county that's a TJ feeder zone, (2) you have way too much time on your hands, (3) which you spend on some weird obsession you have with a program that your child doesn't even attend, and (4) you would be a lot happier if you just moved somewhere like Lake Braddock. Or heck-- try a Stuart zoned school. Your kid will look like a rocket scientist by virtue of the fact they speak English. If your kids can't keep up, you should definately teach them that the solution is just to surround themselves with lower performing people.

^^ beyond any issues related to the children, here is another reason why people dislike AAP: the parents.

Same reason people with gifted kids want to run to centers and out of Gen. Ed. - the parents.

Really? Are you that socially awkward that you need a special school? Sorry if normal folks intimidate you.

Very few of the handful of butthurt Gen Ed parents who latch on to threads like this would seem to fit any commonly accepted definition of "normal."

"Butthurt"? Yes, definitely awkward. My kid just started 2nd and these threads really just make me want to avoid AAP altogether.

NP here: I haven't been in on these ridiculous posts, but I have to say that you don't seem like you have any intention of avoiding AAP if you have a brand new 2nd grader and are already on this forum. I'm really not trying to be mean at all...just seems like you are actually wanting your child in (as opposed to perhaps someone who starts posting and reviewing this section after the pool letters are mailed.)

Oh dear God, you mean all the obsessive nut jobs who trot out their memorized kids' scores and test acronyms, ad nauseum? Who list all the deviations and test results they can, in order to get a "chance me" result on the likelihood of little Larla getting into AAP? Those threads are some of the most pathetic of DCUM - and that's saying a LOT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child that just started in the AAP program this year. My initial thoughts are that it is a good program. I like the higher expectations and focus on critical thinking, however I don't think it is all that much of a gifted program. My DC is one of those kids that tests in the highly gifted range but is lazy and will rise to only to whatever expectations are set for the class unless he is interested in the what he is doing. He needs a class that is more in depth and accelerated than what the current AAP program offers.

That said I think the Aap extensions that focus on critical thinking would benefit all kids and should be provided as part of the general education curriculum.
I do think the current program is bloated and clearly includes kids who don't belong in a traditional gifted classroom. I know lots of kids that got in without the requisite test or GBRS scores. I am all for offering the current AAP curriculum as the general education curriculum and reducing the current AAP cohort to the top 2% of FCPS takers and offering a truly accelerated and gifted program. That way the vast majority of kids can benefit from the AAP focus on critical thinking that I think that most generally bright kids can handle.

This is absolutely true and why AAP is so watered down - it can't be a real gifted program, because so few of the kids in it are actually gifted! Instead, it's just a slightly accelerated regular curriculum, that could easily be done by most kids. It boggles the mind why it's considered a "test-in" program, when it could just be open to all. That would allow a REAL gifted program to be developed for exceptionally gifted kids - who are few and far between.

You do know the mom that you are quoting has less than two weeks experience total with AAP. They haven't even had many real assignments or projects yet. She has no idea who is or who is not gifted among her kid's new classmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you have 25 - 50% in AAP, the term "gifted" has lost all meaning.

There are NOT 25-50% of fcps kids in AAP centers/level IV.

You need to try to brush up on facts.

No, you need to brush up on your facts. Of the three schools closest to my house: One has 35%, one has 33% and the other has 25%. There are schools with up to 50% kids in AAP. That is a fact.

If you you know that the three schools closest to your home have these specific numbers, several things are true: (1) you live in a very specific area in the Western part of the county that's a TJ feeder zone, (2) you have way too much time on your hands, (3) which you spend on some weird obsession you have with a program that your child doesn't even attend, and (4) you would be a lot happier if you just moved somewhere like Lake Braddock. Or heck-- try a Stuart zoned school. Your kid will look like a rocket scientist by virtue of the fact they speak English. If your kids can't keep up, you should definately teach them that the solution is just to surround themselves with lower performing people.

^^ beyond any issues related to the children, here is another reason why people dislike AAP: the parents.

Same reason people with gifted kids want to run to centers and out of Gen. Ed. - the parents.

Really? Are you that socially awkward that you need a special school? Sorry if normal folks intimidate you.

Very few of the handful of butthurt Gen Ed parents who latch on to threads like this would seem to fit any commonly accepted definition of "normal."

"Butthurt"? Yes, definitely awkward. My kid just started 2nd and these threads really just make me want to avoid AAP altogether.

NP here: I haven't been in on these ridiculous posts, but I have to say that you don't seem like you have any intention of avoiding AAP if you have a brand new 2nd grader and are already on this forum. I'm really not trying to be mean at all...just seems like you are actually wanting your child in (as opposed to perhaps someone who starts posting and reviewing this section after the pool letters are mailed.)

Huh? It popped up on Recent Topics. We are probably moving in the next year or so and we are keeping schools in mind. After hearing about AAP from our neighbors we are definitely questioning FCPS overall. OP's post caught my eye since we've been thinking that the whole way G&T is handled here is BS.

We have had kids in schools all over the USA and fcps AAP program is definitely one of the best models for gifted education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anyone would say that being in an AAP center program is a bad thing for a student who is identified as gifted, via the usual tests and observation.

I don't think anyone would say that special programs are a bad thing for kids with learning disabilities, autism, or who don't speak much English.

So leave those programs alone, as they are doing the job in helping meet those students' needs.

Change your focus to the kids in gen ed who desperately need the attention and more differentiation and more challenging work. Stop trying to blame the one program you can blame and still feel PC. It's misguided.

Lots of people have said that on this thread.

+1
And they've also pointed out that AAP isn't a real gifted program - so it's not even servicing the kids who most need it. Instead, it's just taking half of the mainstream student population, and slapping a gifted label on them. It's utterly obnoxious.

It does not take half of the mainstream population.

It takes approximately 14% of the mainstream population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anyone would say that being in an AAP center program is a bad thing for a student who is identified as gifted, via the usual tests and observation.

I don't think anyone would say that special programs are a bad thing for kids with learning disabilities, autism, or who don't speak much English.

So leave those programs alone, as they are doing the job in helping meet those students' needs.

Change your focus to the kids in gen ed who desperately need the attention and more differentiation and more challenging work. Stop trying to blame the one program you can blame and still feel PC. It's misguided.

This is a great point. ELL has to have as many kids as AAP, and certainly makes huge demands on the resources. Special Ed is smaller, but again, is very resource intensive. AAP cost nothing extra except busing. And certainly there is an argument to be made that it brings in tax dollars that more than offset it's cost if parents and business move here, instead of MD, Alington, DC, Loudon, PW County, etc because of AAP. As the Arlington vs FCPS NMSF debate on the other thread (why is FCPS so much more successful than Arlington at having kids get NMSFs?). AAP also creates a successful pipeline to TJ and produces students who make the whole school system look good. Nevertheless, it's the program GE parents want to target-- because it looks bad to gripe about Special Ed and ELL. And because they aren't jealous of the kids in Special Ed and ELL.

Uh, no. The reason AAP is such a target is because ALL taxpayers are funding this program, but unlike Special Ed, most kids admitted to AAP are not gifted and don't need special services. No one is arguing that we need to do away with programs like Special Ed - obviously, there's a tremendous need for those kids to receive services. Taxpayers are happy to help. What we're not happy to do, however, is spend money on frivolous programs for enormous groups of mostly average kids who don't need special intervention at all. In fact, that "enrichment" we're paying for could easily benefit ALL kids, but isn't. If calling inequity "jealousy" makes you feel better, then so be it. But as long as we're all footing the bill for your kid's extra (and unnecessary) enrichment, expect some push back by those of us who realize this is a PUBLIC school system, not an exclusive private school within a school for some but not all.

However, this is how FCPS chooses to provide state mandated gifted education. Do away with AAP and you still have to figure out how to provide gifted children an education. There's a tremendous need at both ends of the spectrum.

Sure. But the ends of the spectrum don't need to encompass the vast middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of these AAP kids go on to TJ?

Almost all of the kids at TJ went through AAP.

But only a tiny fraction of AAP kids actually get into TJ. The wheat is definitely separated from the chaff during the TJ admissions process.

Most AAP kids in our pyramid do not apply for TJ.

Most AAP kids would be unable to get into TJ in the first place. Only the truly exceptional are admitted, which is a hard truth for AAP parents to swallow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anyone would say that being in an AAP center program is a bad thing for a student who is identified as gifted, via the usual tests and observation.

I don't think anyone would say that special programs are a bad thing for kids with learning disabilities, autism, or who don't speak much English.

So leave those programs alone, as they are doing the job in helping meet those students' needs.

Change your focus to the kids in gen ed who desperately need the attention and more differentiation and more challenging work. Stop trying to blame the one program you can blame and still feel PC. It's misguided.

This is a great point. ELL has to have as many kids as AAP, and certainly makes huge demands on the resources. Special Ed is smaller, but again, is very resource intensive. AAP cost nothing extra except busing. And certainly there is an argument to be made that it brings in tax dollars that more than offset it's cost if parents and business move here, instead of MD, Alington, DC, Loudon, PW County, etc because of AAP. As the Arlington vs FCPS NMSF debate on the other thread (why is FCPS so much more successful than Arlington at having kids get NMSFs?). AAP also creates a successful pipeline to TJ and produces students who make the whole school system look good. Nevertheless, it's the program GE parents want to target-- because it looks bad to gripe about Special Ed and ELL. And because they aren't jealous of the kids in Special Ed and ELL.

Uh, no. The reason AAP is such a target is because ALL taxpayers are funding this program, but unlike Special Ed, most kids admitted to AAP are not gifted and don't need special services. No one is arguing that we need to do away with programs like Special Ed - obviously, there's a tremendous need for those kids to receive services. Taxpayers are happy to help. What we're not happy to do, however, is spend money on frivolous programs for enormous groups of mostly average kids who don't need special intervention at all. In fact, that "enrichment" we're paying for could easily benefit ALL kids, but isn't. If calling inequity "jealousy" makes you feel better, then so be it. But as long as we're all footing the bill for your kid's extra (and unnecessary) enrichment, expect some push back by those of us who realize this is a PUBLIC school system, not an exclusive private school within a school for some but not all.

However, this is how FCPS chooses to provide state mandated gifted education. Do away with AAP and you still have to figure out how to provide gifted children an education. There's a tremendous need at both ends of the spectrum.

Sure. But the ends of the spectrum don't need to encompass the vast middle.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child that just started in the AAP program this year. My initial thoughts are that it is a good program. I like the higher expectations and focus on critical thinking, however I don't think it is all that much of a gifted program. My DC is one of those kids that tests in the highly gifted range but is lazy and will rise to only to whatever expectations are set for the class unless he is interested in the what he is doing. He needs a class that is more in depth and accelerated than what the current AAP program offers.

That said I think the Aap extensions that focus on critical thinking would benefit all kids and should be provided as part of the general education curriculum.
I do think the current program is bloated and clearly includes kids who don't belong in a traditional gifted classroom. I know lots of kids that got in without the requisite test or GBRS scores. I am all for offering the current AAP curriculum as the general education curriculum and reducing the current AAP cohort to the top 2% of FCPS takers and offering a truly accelerated and gifted program. That way the vast majority of kids can benefit from the AAP focus on critical thinking that I think that most generally bright kids can handle.

This is absolutely true and why AAP is so watered down - it can't be a real gifted program, because so few of the kids in it are actually gifted! Instead, it's just a slightly accelerated regular curriculum, that could easily be done by most kids. It boggles the mind why it's considered a "test-in" program, when it could just be open to all. That would allow a REAL gifted program to be developed for exceptionally gifted kids - who are few and far between.

You do know the mom that you are quoting has less than two weeks experience total with AAP. They haven't even had many real assignments or projects yet. She has no idea who is or who is not gifted among her kid's new classmates.

It's irrelevant how long her child has been in AAP, or even if she has a child in AAP. Everything she - and others - have stated about the program is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of these AAP kids go on to TJ?

Almost all of the kids at TJ went through AAP.

But only a tiny fraction of AAP kids actually get into TJ. The wheat is definitely separated from the chaff during the TJ admissions process.

Most AAP kids in our pyramid do not apply for TJ.

Most AAP kids would be unable to get into TJ in the first place. Only the truly exceptional are admitted, which is a hard truth for AAP parents to swallow.

They seem to deal with it with far more equanimity than the whiny Gen Ed parents who harbor such enormous grudges when their own children are not admitted into AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anyone would say that being in an AAP center program is a bad thing for a student who is identified as gifted, via the usual tests and observation.

I don't think anyone would say that special programs are a bad thing for kids with learning disabilities, autism, or who don't speak much English.

So leave those programs alone, as they are doing the job in helping meet those students' needs.

Change your focus to the kids in gen ed who desperately need the attention and more differentiation and more challenging work. Stop trying to blame the one program you can blame and still feel PC. It's misguided.

This is a great point. ELL has to have as many kids as AAP, and certainly makes huge demands on the resources. Special Ed is smaller, but again, is very resource intensive. AAP cost nothing extra except busing. And certainly there is an argument to be made that it brings in tax dollars that more than offset it's cost if parents and business move here, instead of MD, Alington, DC, Loudon, PW County, etc because of AAP. As the Arlington vs FCPS NMSF debate on the other thread (why is FCPS so much more successful than Arlington at having kids get NMSFs?). AAP also creates a successful pipeline to TJ and produces students who make the whole school system look good. Nevertheless, it's the program GE parents want to target-- because it looks bad to gripe about Special Ed and ELL. And because they aren't jealous of the kids in Special Ed and ELL.

Uh, no. The reason AAP is such a target is because ALL taxpayers are funding this program, but unlike Special Ed, most kids admitted to AAP are not gifted and don't need special services. No one is arguing that we need to do away with programs like Special Ed - obviously, there's a tremendous need for those kids to receive services. Taxpayers are happy to help. What we're not happy to do, however, is spend money on frivolous programs for enormous groups of mostly average kids who don't need special intervention at all. In fact, that "enrichment" we're paying for could easily benefit ALL kids, but isn't. If calling inequity "jealousy" makes you feel better, then so be it. But as long as we're all footing the bill for your kid's extra (and unnecessary) enrichment, expect some push back by those of us who realize this is a PUBLIC school system, not an exclusive private school within a school for some but not all.

oh well! Get over it, it's not going anywhere. Thank God!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of these AAP kids go on to TJ?

Almost all of the kids at TJ went through AAP.

But only a tiny fraction of AAP kids actually get into TJ. The wheat is definitely separated from the chaff during the TJ admissions process.

Most AAP kids in our pyramid do not apply for TJ.

Most AAP kids would be unable to get into TJ in the first place. Only the truly exceptional are admitted, which is a hard truth for AAP parents to swallow.

and a majority of Gen. Ed kids are clearly unable to, so what? It's a hard pill for you to swallow your kid can't get into AAP (as shown but the crazy jealousy on this thread) and you're talking about AAP kids being upset about getting into TJ? Our kids are good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of these AAP kids go on to TJ?

Almost all of the kids at TJ went through AAP.

But only a tiny fraction of AAP kids actually get into TJ. The wheat is definitely separated from the chaff during the TJ admissions process.

Most AAP kids in our pyramid do not apply for TJ.

Most AAP kids would be unable to get into TJ in the first place. Only the truly exceptional are admitted, which is a hard truth for AAP parents to swallow.

They seem to deal with it with far more equanimity than the whiny Gen Ed parents who harbor such enormous grudges when their own children are not admitted into AAP.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child that just started in the AAP program this year. My initial thoughts are that it is a good program. I like the higher expectations and focus on critical thinking, however I don't think it is all that much of a gifted program. My DC is one of those kids that tests in the highly gifted range but is lazy and will rise to only to whatever expectations are set for the class unless he is interested in the what he is doing. He needs a class that is more in depth and accelerated than what the current AAP program offers.

That said I think the Aap extensions that focus on critical thinking would benefit all kids and should be provided as part of the general education curriculum.
I do think the current program is bloated and clearly includes kids who don't belong in a traditional gifted classroom. I know lots of kids that got in without the requisite test or GBRS scores. I am all for offering the current AAP curriculum as the general education curriculum and reducing the current AAP cohort to the top 2% of FCPS takers and offering a truly accelerated and gifted program. That way the vast majority of kids can benefit from the AAP focus on critical thinking that I think that most generally bright kids can handle.

This is absolutely true and why AAP is so watered down - it can't be a real gifted program, because so few of the kids in it are actually gifted! Instead, it's just a slightly accelerated regular curriculum, that could easily be done by most kids. It boggles the mind why it's considered a "test-in" program, when it could just be open to all. That would allow a REAL gifted program to be developed for exceptionally gifted kids - who are few and far between.

You do know the mom that you are quoting has less than two weeks experience total with AAP. They haven't even had many real assignments or projects yet. She has no idea who is or who is not gifted among her kid's new classmates.

It's irrelevant how long her child has been in AAP, or even if she has a child in AAP. Everything she - and others - have stated about the program is true.

Great! It's true, "AAP lets in too many kids who aren't gifted" and yet YOUR kid still couldn't get in. Now what?

[Anonymous]

If only the kids cared half as much as you all do about the whole thing....many kids hardly even notice, aap and gen Ed alike. Parents need to get a grip and truly stop making a bigger deal about it all than it really is. Ridiculous.