How does your family survive making under 200k hhi

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Tweak it a bit and we are the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Thank you. We are aggressive savers and planners.

Anyone who uses "$200K" and "survive" in the same sentence is clueless. With a HHI of $180K, we consider ourselves rich.

But you're at a different stage in life. You bought your house when before the bubble, when gas was cheaper, when economy was better, and when families were able to live on one income. Try starting out with 2 kids in daycare and paying for a house now on 180k.

PP here. That will always be true. We didn't make $180K when we were starting out, not even close. We struggled just as you do. It's what life is like, starting out, for most people.

I still say $200Kish is a LOT of money.

What did the home cost compared to your income. No way in hell someone would make that equity and be in the same position if they bought now and fast forwarded 20 years.

IIRC, we were making about $90K or $100K together when we bought our house for $360K in 2000. (Families in this area were definitely not able to live on one income at that time. No way.) At the time we had two kids in daycare (later pulled them and did a nanny-share) and for a few years we were in the red, with more going out to childcare etc. than we had coming in.

I don't think you know what your house will be worth in 20 years. (We've owned for almost 14, not 20.)

[Anonymous]

Oh, come on. There are plenty of undervalued homes located throughout the Washington DC metro area that are more than affordable to most people making $100K per year. There is a lot of value to be had in downcounty MoCo and PG County. In my neighborhood, homes are going for about $300K and we are walking distance to metro!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

We have earned between 140 - 160 for the last 10 years on one income. We have 2 kids but no student loans. Both kids went to good preschools and do after school activities (education is a priority for us). We live in the DC area. We have bought a house at the peak with 25% down and sold it 8 years later for a minor profit. We have 450K cash equity in the market, and maxed out 401K. This is with no family help. Of course we are not crazy rich, but will retire and still be able to maintain our standard of living unless the market wipes us out (except it will wipe everyone else out concurrently). We travel abroad once every 2 years to see family, eat out and even have someone come in a couple of times a month to clean house. We average about 40-60K per year savings (excluding 401K).

It's doable.

Are you in your 30s? How have your housing costs been? I suspect you live someplace on edge of DC metro like Loudoun? And one of you works out there too. That is an enviable situation big you can get it bc you avoid the ridiculous cost of housing most of us pay to maintain shorter commutes. And I mean shorter not short.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't get why people think two income earners in a household with kids is not really worth it. I have one child in a licensed in-home daycare for a total of $13,800/year. [For those who think in-home care is "substandard," there's a reputable center even closer to my house that I could send my daughter to (yes, they have openings) for $13k a year, so I'd actually save a bit.]

Since we both work, we're each "paying" $7.5k a year to keep our full time jobs. It's a no brainer that this is financially worthwhile. Even if you wanted to attribute all of the childcare costs to the mother, you could say I "pay" $13k/year to keep my full time job, health insurance for my family, life insurance for us, retirement and a modest pension. Do you know how little I'd have to make for this to not be financially worthwhile? Even if I made that little, I would be eligible for childcare subsidies through my city, my work, and my state + low-income housing + food stamps. All of that would probably still make it worthwhile for me to stay in the work force, contribute to social security, etc.

The vast majority of people staying home with their children and out of the workforce are not doing it to save money. They are doing it because they feel it is the right thing to do, it's what they want to do, or they feel their children need them available and present all day, everyday. But I don't see the point of pretending there's a "two income trap." The numbers just don't add up.

Not to mention the lost income potential--often when you stay home for several years, you lose ground that you never get back.

Definitely true, but 'surviving' on $200k or $160k is much easier when it is a single high income earner rather than two folks making $80k and paying for childcare and working parent scrambling.

Being a SAHP can have long term consequences to ultimate household income in the long term, but most folks who go that route already have a relatively high income spouse and most likely in a stable job (otherwise unlikely you would have left the workforce).

It's only easier unti the single earner is out of work.

Isn't that the same for everyone? Having an earner out of work is hard on any family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Thank you. We are aggressive savers and planners.

Anyone who uses "$200K" and "survive" in the same sentence is clueless. With a HHI of $180K, we consider ourselves rich.

But you're at a different stage in life. You bought your house when before the bubble, when gas was cheaper, when economy was better, and when families were able to live on one income. Try starting out with 2 kids in daycare and paying for a house now on 180k.

PP here. That will always be true. We didn't make $180K when we were starting out, not even close. We struggled just as you do. It's what life is like, starting out, for most people.

I still say $200Kish is a LOT of money.

What did the home cost compared to your income. No way in hell someone would make that equity and be in the same position if they bought now and fast forwarded 20 years.

IIRC, we were making about $90K or $100K together when we bought our house for $360K in 2000. (Families in this area were definitely not able to live on one income at that time. No way.) At the time we had two kids in daycare (later pulled them and did a nanny-share) and for a few years we were in the red, with more going out to childcare etc. than we had coming in.

I don't think you know what your house will be worth in 20 years. (We've owned for almost 14, not 20.)

It's very unlikely that housing will triple in next 15 yrs like yours did.

And a comparable housing cost would be 600k, which means you are living at out and paying more in gas and extended care or live closer in and pay for private.

Different world now. We should all move tonPitt or nC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes there are costs to staying at home. There is also tremendous value add and not just to the children but the family as a whole. To the working spouse and his or her ability to earn more. If we get hung up on just $$ of staying at home then we fail to understand some of the more fundamental motivators. It is a risky move, agreed. But could pay dividends of a nature that you can't put a $ value to. For some families having a SAHP is the best decision.

My husband and I both have full time salaried office jobs. Neither of us would make more if the other stayed home.

Then your family isn't one where having a sahp is better, but that doesn't mean that there are not other families where this is true.

[Anonymous]

We live in a shitshack in an "undesirable" neighborhood. Our kids go to subpar public schools. We grow our own vegetables, my husband hunts deer and I send my kids out to forage for roots and berries on weekends. We don't own a car and take public transit everywhere! Our college and retirement plan is the DC Lottery!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, come on. There are plenty of undervalued homes located throughout the Washington DC metro area that are more than affordable to most people making $100K per year. There is a lot of value to be had in downcounty MoCo and PG County. In my neighborhood, homes are going for about $300K and we are walking distance to metro!

And then basically pay for another house by going private with two kids for 13 yrs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, come on. There are plenty of undervalued homes located throughout the Washington DC metro area that are more than affordable to most people making $100K per year. There is a lot of value to be had in downcounty MoCo and PG County. In my neighborhood, homes are going for about $300K and we are walking distance to metro!

And then basically pay for another house by going private with two kids for 13 yrs.

Unless you're a member at one of the churches with a decent school that caps total family dues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Thank you. We are aggressive savers and planners.

Anyone who uses "$200K" and "survive" in the same sentence is clueless. With a HHI of $180K, we consider ourselves rich.

But you're at a different stage in life. You bought your house when before the bubble, when gas was cheaper, when economy was better, and when families were able to live on one income. Try starting out with 2 kids in daycare and paying for a house now on 180k.

There was a bubble in the late 1980's and early 90's and then housing flatlined for nearly a decade. Same in the 70's..... I agree, housing was less expensive when we purchased out house, but incomes were lower too and a great interest rate was 7.5% and up. Daycare costs were expensive then too. We didn't have FEMLA. We got 20-24 hours in the hospital after a vaginal birth and 24-48 hours after a C-section - if we were lucky. There was no telework and very little flexible work schedules. .......

[Anonymous]

No. I just send my kids to public. They will be fine. They'll probably beat out the private school kid for that spot at Harvard!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Thank you. We are aggressive savers and planners.

Anyone who uses "$200K" and "survive" in the same sentence is clueless. With a HHI of $180K, we consider ourselves rich.

But you're at a different stage in life. You bought your house when before the bubble, when gas was cheaper, when economy was better, and when families were able to live on one income. Try starting out with 2 kids in daycare and paying for a house now on 180k.

PP here. That will always be true. We didn't make $180K when we were starting out, not even close. We struggled just as you do. It's what life is like, starting out, for most people.

I still say $200Kish is a LOT of money.

What did the home cost compared to your income. No way in hell someone would make that equity and be in the same position if they bought now and fast forwarded 20 years.

IIRC, we were making about $90K or $100K together when we bought our house for $360K in 2000. (Families in this area were definitely not able to live on one income at that time. No way.) At the time we had two kids in daycare (later pulled them and did a nanny-share) and for a few years we were in the red, with more going out to childcare etc. than we had coming in.

I don't think you know what your house will be worth in 20 years. (We've owned for almost 14, not 20.)

It's very unlikely that housing will triple in next 15 yrs like yours did.

And a comparable housing cost would be 600k, which means you are living at out and paying more in gas and extended care or live closer in and pay for private.

Different world now. We should all move tonPitt or nC.

Huh? How do you figure our housing value tripled? $360K x 3 = $1M+. Our house is worth about $800K. So it doubled, plus a little more. Yours might too, in the next 15 years. Unless you have a crystal ball, we don't know.

I don't know what you mean by comparable housing cost. Do you mean that is what we would be buying now with our income? Perhaps so. We live in close-in Silver Spring and put gas in our cars 1x/month as we don't drive that much. Our kids go to public school. People buy houses in our area for $600K today and make these same choices.

Your situation is really not any different from what ours was 14 years ago. It just isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Thank you. We are aggressive savers and planners.

Anyone who uses "$200K" and "survive" in the same sentence is clueless. With a HHI of $180K, we consider ourselves rich.

But you're at a different stage in life. You bought your house when before the bubble, when gas was cheaper, when economy was better, and when families were able to live on one income. Try starting out with 2 kids in daycare and paying for a house now on 180k.

PP here. That will always be true. We didn't make $180K when we were starting out, not even close. We struggled just as you do. It's what life is like, starting out, for most people.

I still say $200Kish is a LOT of money.

What did the home cost compared to your income. No way in hell someone would make that equity and be in the same position if they bought now and fast forwarded 20 years.

IIRC, we were making about $90K or $100K together when we bought our house for $360K in 2000. (Families in this area were definitely not able to live on one income at that time. No way.) At the time we had two kids in daycare (later pulled them and did a nanny-share) and for a few years we were in the red, with more going out to childcare etc. than we had coming in.

I don't think you know what your house will be worth in 20 years. (We've owned for almost 14, not 20.)

It's very unlikely that housing will triple in next 15 yrs like yours did.

And a comparable housing cost would be 600k, which means you are living at out and paying more in gas and extended care or live closer in and pay for private.

Different world now. We should all move tonPitt or nC.

Huh? How do you figure our housing value tripled? $360K x 3 = $1M+. Our house is worth about $800K. So it doubled, plus a little more. Yours might too, in the next 15 years. Unless you have a crystal ball, we don't know.

I don't know what you mean by comparable housing cost. Do you mean that is what we would be buying now with our income? Perhaps so. We live in close-in Silver Spring and put gas in our cars 1x/month as we don't drive that much. Our kids go to public school. People buy houses in our area for $600K today and make these same choices.

Your situation is really not any different from what ours was 14 years ago. It just isn't.

Except, when you bought your house the value was 3.6x your salary. Now, making 180k would mean the house is 4.4x the salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Thank you. We are aggressive savers and planners.

Anyone who uses "$200K" and "survive" in the same sentence is clueless. With a HHI of $180K, we consider ourselves rich.

But you're at a different stage in life. You bought your house when before the bubble, when gas was cheaper, when economy was better, and when families were able to live on one income. Try starting out with 2 kids in daycare and paying for a house now on 180k.

PP here. That will always be true. We didn't make $180K when we were starting out, not even close. We struggled just as you do. It's what life is like, starting out, for most people.

I still say $200Kish is a LOT of money.

What did the home cost compared to your income. No way in hell someone would make that equity and be in the same position if they bought now and fast forwarded 20 years.

IIRC, we were making about $90K or $100K together when we bought our house for $360K in 2000. (Families in this area were definitely not able to live on one income at that time. No way.) At the time we had two kids in daycare (later pulled them and did a nanny-share) and for a few years we were in the red, with more going out to childcare etc. than we had coming in.

I don't think you know what your house will be worth in 20 years. (We've owned for almost 14, not 20.)

It's very unlikely that housing will triple in next 15 yrs like yours did.

And a comparable housing cost would be 600k, which means you are living at out and paying more in gas and extended care or live closer in and pay for private.

Different world now. We should all move tonPitt or nC.

NP--but this is crazy. Yes, I'm older than you are and we bought our first house when real estate was cheaper. But when we bought our first home--a 1100 square foot row house for $180,000--our HHI was a hell of a lot lower than it is now--about $80,000. We lived there for 14 years, eventually adding 2 kids in that small house with no yard or basement. Yes, when we sold in 2008, we made a killing. (Although not nearly as much as we would have made had we sold it a year earlier.) But we turned around and paid through the nose for another house in the DC area, so the equity we'd built up wasn't the quite the windfall one would imagine. At that point, our HHI was $175,000, the house we bought was a 1300 square foot SFH with 1 bathroom, unfinished basement, garage, and big yard (and better schools) for $575,000. The ratio of mortgage to HHI was 2.16 for the first house, 2.38 for the second. (Although it's higher now because after a few years we took second mortgage to finish the basement and add another bath.). Note a few things about this tale: our starter home was an older small house, bought on the edge of gentrifying neighborhood; we lived there for over a decade, stuffing 2 kids into that small space, and working the "substandard" school system as best we could; and when we traded "up," we got just a slightly bigger but still old and small home with one! bathroom (albeit with yard and much more storage and expansion potential) and with better schools as our eldest started middle school. I am confident my home meets the current DCUM definition of "shitshack." However, it is pleasant and comfortable and suits our family very well. My kids are thriving and none of us feels "deprived."

It's easy to say that things were "easier" back then, and perhaps that's so. But a good part of the explanation is that our expectations were (and are) lower. Our money feels like it stretches further in large part because we don't try to stretch it as far.