A reality check on "strong extracurriculars"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:McDonald job is not significant. It’s good for your DC for a variety of reasons, but you’d be delusional to think it’s a big boost for college admissions.

It depends.

It's better than varisty sports captain.

If you are FGLI, it sends a bunch of signals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see there are a lot of first time through parents who are going to be sorely disappointed when they find out being a varsity and club athlete helps not at all if your kid is not recruited. Literally half to two thirds of our private plays a sport seriously, it is completely irrelevant for college admissions.

I guess if you keep repeating yourself it makes it seem true? We get you have an opinion, even if not base on reality. Move on.

DP if you are aiming top 25, it doesn't help very much compared to the other stuff they could be doing with that time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I see there are a lot of first time through parents who are going to be sorely disappointed when they find out being a varsity and club athlete helps not at all if your kid is not recruited. Literally half to two thirds of our private plays a sport seriously, it is completely irrelevant for college admissions.

Not all high school sports are the same or as impressive. I would agree with that. But, kids that are top high school athletes a the varsity level demanding team sports (recruited or not) and maintain excellent academics are appealing to admissions. If you have never had your kid play at a top high school team sport and reach varsity then you have no basis of comparison of the demands on these kids and why the balance of the two makes a difference. Remember, there may be an admissions counselor that is assigned to your kid's initial review of his or her application that has the same background in high school and knows the demands it checks the box for them.

lol, I have two kids who played varsity sports at private schools in top independent sports conferences, and one was captain of two teams. Both also played sports at club level during high school. One is going to a H/Y/P and the other is at a top 30. Sports had ZERO to do with their admission. Countless friends of both kids had high stats and high level sports but no other impressive ecs, not a single one got into a T30. And this is from privates that send close to half of the class to T30s.

Btw, each of my kids has both school and private college counselors, they will all tell you varsity/club sports are a weak ec for non-recruits. Play for love of the game and exercise.

What varsity sports?

All of them.

To clarify, have never seen a non recruit with sports as primary ec admitted to a T30. My own kids played volleyball, soccer, lacrosse and track. But friends from the gamut from water polo to golf to field hockey.

Well let me introduce you to my kid. Major varsity sports was his primary. Hours a week all year round. Private Top 10 and Top 20. 3 Top 10 Publics.

Absolutely do not believe you. Unless you are urm, first gen or just low income.

+1 Varsity sports is less useful than class president. At least there is only one class president per school. There are dozens of varsity sports captains.

[Anonymous]

I really don’t think ECs matter all that much outside of the top 20-30 colleges.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I see there are a lot of first time through parents who are going to be sorely disappointed when they find out being a varsity and club athlete helps not at all if your kid is not recruited. Literally half to two thirds of our private plays a sport seriously, it is completely irrelevant for college admissions.

Not all high school sports are the same or as impressive. I would agree with that. But, kids that are top high school athletes a the varsity level demanding team sports (recruited or not) and maintain excellent academics are appealing to admissions. If you have never had your kid play at a top high school team sport and reach varsity then you have no basis of comparison of the demands on these kids and why the balance of the two makes a difference. Remember, there may be an admissions counselor that is assigned to your kid's initial review of his or her application that has the same background in high school and knows the demands it checks the box for them.

lol, I have two kids who played varsity sports at private schools in top independent sports conferences, and one was captain of two teams. Both also played sports at club level during high school. One is going to a H/Y/P and the other is at a top 30. Sports had ZERO to do with their admission. Countless friends of both kids had high stats and high level sports but no other impressive ecs, not a single one got into a T30. And this is from privates that send close to half of the class to T30s.

Btw, each of my kids has both school and private college counselors, they will all tell you varsity/club sports are a weak ec for non-recruits. Play for love of the game and exercise.

What varsity sports?

All of them.

To clarify, have never seen a non recruit with sports as primary ec admitted to a T30. My own kids played volleyball, soccer, lacrosse and track. But friends from the gamut from water polo to golf to field hockey.

Well let me introduce you to my kid. Major varsity sports was his primary. Hours a week all year round. Private Top 10 and Top 20. 3 Top 10 Publics.

Absolutely do not believe you. Unless you are urm, first gen or just low income.

You are truly unsufferable. It's true. Not low income and not first gen.

DP
Then they had something else going on. Perfect grades, perfect test scores and captain of the basketball team (not recruitable) does not get you anywhere without something else. The basketball is almost a throwaway line on the application

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:McDonald job is not significant. It’s good for your DC for a variety of reasons, but you’d be delusional to think it’s a big boost for college admissions.

It depends.

It's better than varisty sports captain.

If you are FGLI, it sends a bunch of signals.

A job at McD (or any real minimum wage type job) is a positive signal for any student. A Yale former AO specifically said that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I see there are a lot of first time through parents who are going to be sorely disappointed when they find out being a varsity and club athlete helps not at all if your kid is not recruited. Literally half to two thirds of our private plays a sport seriously, it is completely irrelevant for college admissions.

Not all high school sports are the same or as impressive. I would agree with that. But, kids that are top high school athletes a the varsity level demanding team sports (recruited or not) and maintain excellent academics are appealing to admissions. If you have never had your kid play at a top high school team sport and reach varsity then you have no basis of comparison of the demands on these kids and why the balance of the two makes a difference. Remember, there may be an admissions counselor that is assigned to your kid's initial review of his or her application that has the same background in high school and knows the demands it checks the box for them.

lol, I have two kids who played varsity sports at private schools in top independent sports conferences, and one was captain of two teams. Both also played sports at club level during high school. One is going to a H/Y/P and the other is at a top 30. Sports had ZERO to do with their admission. Countless friends of both kids had high stats and high level sports but no other

impressive ecs, not a single one got into a T30. And this is from privates that send close to half of the class to T30s.

Btw, each of my kids has both school and private college counselors, they will all tell you varsity/club sports are a weak ec for non-recruits. Play for love of the game and exercise.

What varsity sports?

All of them.

To clarify, have never seen a non recruit with sports as primary ec admitted to a T30. My own kids played volleyball, soccer, lacrosse and track. But friends from the gamut from water polo to golf to field hockey.

Well let me introduce you to my kid. Major varsity sports was his primary. Hours a week all year round. Private Top 10 and Top 20. 3 Top 10 Publics.

Absolutely do not believe you. Unless you are urm, first gen or just low income.

You are truly unsufferable. It's true. Not low income and not first gen.

But the kid is an underrepresented minority?

No

Then you are either lying or leaving something out.

But I really don’t care. My kids are already in at great schools. I’d hate to see people make the mistake of thinking varsity sport combined with club is enough to get in a T25, every reputable college counselor in the country will tell you that it isn’t unless you are a recruit. I’ve seen it play out irl dozens of times.

Believe what you need to I guess, but the top school he is attending where he finished his freshman at clearly made the right choice. Deans list both semesters for Engineering.

Wait. When you said he is at a top 10 school, did you mean he is at a top 10 in engineering?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my kids' school, only a couple of people try to get elected for school president (no idea how many students vote, probably not many) and then ... do close to nothing as far as the rest of the student body can see. It's just a title to put on the resume.

A public school President at least at ours is involved in many functions and planning. My daughter is the secretary and says in her role alone it is a few hours a week. Plus 2,000 kids elect them. You are forgetting many colleges seek kids that other kids like. It is a sign the kid is going to fit in which is hard to tell sometimes.

I don't know any high school in the area where even half the students vote. 2000 kids did not elect them. Usually, about 10% of the students fill out a ballot. We once elected a squirrel with 50 votes because it was easier to get kids to vote for a joke than actually vote for a candidate. There are 30,000 school presidents every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Definitely a troll, let’s move on.

lol. you are unbelievable. You need to believe it is don't you?.. but trust me it's not.

Oh we do NOT trust you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see there are a lot of first time through parents who are going to be sorely disappointed when they find out being a varsity and club athlete helps not at all if your kid is not recruited. Literally half to two thirds of our private plays a sport seriously, it is completely irrelevant for college admissions.

Not all high school sports are the same or as impressive. I would agree with that. But, kids that are top high school athletes a the varsity level demanding team sports (recruited or not) and maintain excellent academics are appealing to admissions. If you have never had your kid play at a top high school team sport and reach varsity then you have no basis of comparison of the demands on these kids and why the balance of the two makes a difference. Remember, there may be an admissions counselor that is assigned to your kid's initial review of his or her application that has the same background in high school and knows the demands it checks the box for them.

lol, I have two kids who played varsity sports at private schools in top independent sports conferences, and one was captain of two teams. Both also played sports at club level during high school. One is going to a H/Y/P and the other is at a top 30. Sports had ZERO to do with their admission. Countless friends of both kids had high stats and high level sports but no other impressive ecs, not a single one got into a T30. And this is from privates that send close to half of the class to T30s.

Btw, each of my kids has both school and private college counselors, they will all tell you varsity/club sports are a weak ec for non-recruits. Play for love of the game and exercise.

What varsity sports?

All of them.

To clarify, have never seen a non recruit with sports as primary ec admitted to a T30. My own kids played volleyball, soccer, lacrosse and track. But friends from the gamut from water polo to golf to field hockey.

Well let me introduce you to my kid. Major varsity sports was his primary. Hours a week all year round. Private Top 10 and Top 20. 3 Top 10 Publics.

Absolutely do not believe you. Unless you are urm, first gen or just low income.

You are truly unsufferable. It's true. Not low income and not first gen.

DP
Then they had something else going on. Perfect grades, perfect test scores and captain of the basketball team (not recruitable) does not get you anywhere without something else. The basketball is almost a throwaway line on the application

If its a large, competitive high school, then kids train at basketball for hundreds of hours for 10+ years to even make Varsity. That's a huge time commitment.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is elite level athlete? You are either recruitable, or not recruitable.

You can be recruitable but choosing not to play. If a girl was a starter on a nationally ranked team but chose not to play they still have a fantastic EC. If they were a captain on the team even better. They were elite at their main EC which is the bar.

Definitely not true and I say this as a parent of varsity atheletes. If your kid is not an athletic recruit, sports are among the useless ecs. May get some leadership points if kid is a varsity captain, but others pretty useless as far as admission as impact.

My son was a varsity captain of his basketball team but not a recruited athlete but 3 kids on his team were high D1 recruited. The varsity captain helped college admissions tremendously in addition to his strong academics.

Source for this? Where is he going? Captains of teams are ok but generally meaningless. There are many of them at every school...

Accepted to a Top 10 and Top 20.

Not because he was captain of a team.

I know a kid just like this who was captain of the team, graduated in top 10 of his class, and had very high SAT. It was a total package not just one thing. Certainly the sports helped round out that package.

Even you agree being CAPTAIN was irrelevant. Being an unrecruited athlete with a bunch of other excellent stuff, sure, that could help round out a kid.

Well it certainly didn't hurt. Not sure what your point is but you clearly just don't seem to like or value sports but that's neither here nor there since you're not a decision maker.

The point of this isn't to shit on sports. My kid spent a lot of time on sports. He played club and was 4 year varsity starter and captain for 2 years but he wasn't good enough to be recruited at his position at a school he would want to go to. In fact we knew he would never be recruited because his height made that almost an impossibility. But he still did it and we supported it despite the FACT that it would not really help his college application because there are other reasons to do things other than college admissions. he was learning life lessons and developing character. Also, I don't think he would spend the time more productively if he didn't have the sport, it was a large part of his identity and the grit he learned got him through a lot of adversity.

I think sports are absolutely worth doing but it will not help with your college applications unless you are recruitable.

All of this was confirmed by the SFFA trial discovery. Harvard gives athletic scores almost no consideration if you are not recruitable. All the Ivy+ do the same

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is elite level athlete? You are either recruitable, or not recruitable.

You can be recruitable but choosing not to play. If a girl was a starter on a nationally ranked team but chose not to play they still have a fantastic EC. If they were a captain on the team even better. They were elite at their main EC which is the bar.

Definitely not true and I say this as a parent of varsity atheletes. If your kid is not an athletic recruit, sports are among the useless ecs. May get some leadership points if kid is a varsity captain, but others pretty useless as far as admission as impact.

My son was a varsity captain of his basketball team but not a recruited athlete but 3 kids on his team were high D1 recruited. The varsity captain helped college admissions tremendously in addition to his strong academics.

Source for this? Where is he going? Captains of teams are ok but generally meaningless. There are many of them at every school...

Accepted to a Top 10 and Top 20.

Not because he was captain of a team.

I know a kid just like this who was captain of the team, graduated in top 10 of his class, and had very high SAT. It was a total package not just one thing. Certainly the sports helped round out that package.

Even you agree being CAPTAIN was irrelevant. Being an unrecruited athlete with a bunch of other excellent stuff, sure, that could help round out a kid.

Well it certainly didn't hurt. Not sure what your point is but you clearly just don't seem to like or value sports but that's neither here nor there since you're not a decision maker.

Except we are a big sports family…club, varsity, summer, etc. since kids were little. And if you don’t recruit, it means little.

It doesn’t mean sports means little; it means in college apps, it means little.

Ok. I can see with my own eyes how many athletes are doing. Maybe it's regional.

This is not regional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:McDonald job is not significant. It’s good for your DC for a variety of reasons, but you’d be delusional to think it’s a big boost for college admissions.

It depends.

It's better than varisty sports captain.

If you are FGLI, it sends a bunch of signals.

A job at McD (or any real minimum wage type job) is a positive signal for any student. A Yale former AO specifically said that.

Read the rubric someone posted here for Cornell. They explicitly look for kids who’ve worked / pt jobs and have a fellowship just for those kids.
It’s an IP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is elite level athlete? You are either recruitable, or not recruitable.

You can be recruitable but choosing not to play. If a girl was a starter on a nationally ranked team but chose not to play they still have a fantastic EC. If they were a captain on the team even better. They were elite at their main EC which is the bar.

Definitely not true and I say this as a parent of varsity atheletes. If your kid is not an athletic recruit, sports are among the useless ecs. May get some leadership points if kid is a varsity captain, but others pretty useless as far as admission as impact.

What if kid is not an athletic recruit, but is captain of varsity team and has consistent volunteer history with younger teams (ie, volunteering with little league)?

Persistent volunteer activity is better than sporadic volunteer activity but unless you can tie it into their intended course of study, it is probably just another activity showing that they kept themselves busy and got involved in their community.

An Eagle Scout badge would be more impressive to admissions officers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do AOs look at coaching or refereeing? Strong for the resume or not really?

Your kid should do things they want to do. If they love coaching/refereeing, then continue. If it really is meaningful to them then they'll have something to write about.

Colleges can tell when kids do things just for the resume.

I thought dcurbanmom would be smarter...

No they can't. The first pass is usually done by a 23-year-old with a humanities degree. They have no idea which kid is doing something because of a passion and which only look like they have a passion.