8 Skiers dead after accidental Avalanche in California!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Nature is harsh. You can prepare and have all the experience and training and equipment in the world but when it becomes man against natural forces - be it fire, water, cold, snow - nature is stronger.

But there is also an incredible amount of reward for spending time in nature and reaping the benefits of the beauty and adventure. Is there a risk - of course. But life has risk and you only live one life. We can all die tomorrow. For those of us who aren't risk adverse, you accept the risk of nature and adventure just like you do every time you get in your car.

Growing up without your mom because she wasn't risk adverse and loved nature? I doubt most kids think that's worth the cost.

Its a fluke accident. That is why it made the news. Women and yes mothers (and fathers) go into the backcountry and the ocean and other places that have risk - all the time and 99.999% of the time, it all goes well. Driving a car is still more dangerous.

DP here. Driving a car is a necessity and virtually unavoidable. Taking dumb risks like this is completely preventable and stupid. They not only signed up for something extremely dangerous, but they also didn't heed the warnings. Completely irresponsible.

People also own dogs and guns - both of which kill children but they take that risk even though it isn't a necessity. Annually an average of 22 people in the USA die in avalanches but more than 40 a year are killed by dogs.

Then head out to ski when the next avalanche and heavy snow are predicted. I'll be taking a walk with my sweet lab and kids..

Until a pitbull rips your sweet lab and your kid's throat!

Nope. We have leash laws, even along tthe river trails. Not saying it can't happen, but I'm a risk taker enjoying the outdoors.

Are you intentionally trying not to understand what PP is saying?

Not at all. I know nonsense when I read it. Heading to ski in the back country when extreme weather has been predicted for a week in an area known for heavy snow is foolhardy and stupid. They may have been brilliant Stanford grads, but they lacked good judgment.

OK then I misunderstood what you were trying to say because I completely agree with you.

PP here. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

This graph implies otherwise.

The people killed are almost always hikers, skiers, snowmobilers, etc. It's not that avalanches are necessarily worse but more people are doing risky and dangerous things in the mountains.

This graph isn't adjusted for population, i.e., rate. However, it does show that avalanches aren't practically unknown pre 2000.

It's not a graph of avalanches it's a graph of fatalities.

To be killed by an avalanche, you can infer the existence of avalanches.

They aren't like earthquakes where people are just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

They can be. Avalanche prediction isn't an exact science. It's not like weather prediction which has been a solved problem for decades. /s

If you weren't out mucking about in the backcountry you wouldn't have been in the avalanche you caused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

This graph implies otherwise.

The people killed are almost always hikers, skiers, snowmobilers, etc. It's not that avalanches are necessarily worse but more people are doing risky and dangerous things in the mountains.

This graph isn't adjusted for population, i.e., rate. However, it does show that avalanches aren't practically unknown pre 2000.

It's not a graph of avalanches it's a graph of fatalities.

To be killed by an avalanche, you can infer the existence of avalanches.

And rich , fit elites looking to live their best life on skis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is comfortable with different risks depending on their experience and skill level. A pool is a terrifying risk to a non swimmer, a dog is a terrifying risk to someone who has never been around dogs, skiing is a terrifying risk to someone who doesn't ski etc. But if you are comfortable and familiar and have skills then you don't feel that it is as risky.

And that is the danger. Skilled people are most at risk for avalanches. They overestimate their abilities. They think being skilled is protective, and it’s unfortunately not.

Unskilled or nonskiers are unlikely to die in an avalanche because they would be nowhere near one.

Still, it’s a terrible tragedy and my thoughts are with their families. The point of these conversations aren’t to make people feel like crap. But to simply learn from them. RIP to these ladies!

[Anonymous]

I am sure they had some sense of comfort because they were with experienced guides. I am really curious to hear what their logic was and why they left the hut to go out in the storm. Even if they ran out of food it didn't seem worth the risk. You can last a long time without food so not really a dire situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure they had some sense of comfort because they were with experienced guides. I am really curious to hear what their logic was and why they left the hut to go out in the storm. Even if they ran out of food it didn't seem worth the risk. You can last a long time without food so not really a dire situation.

If I understand correctly, 2 from the group of moms survived, as well as 1 guide. So those questions will be answered at some point.

My guess is that it's a mix of things - overestimating their ability, relying on the guide, wanting to get home and back to their families / jobs, group pressure, misunderstanding what areas were prone to avalanche, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

Nope, you're wrong. I grew up in Washington State in the 90s. We talked about avalanche danger regularly (we skied, my dad climbed Rainier and other local to Washington mountains) and there were warnings then.

Not only do I remember talking about them, there was a Lake Tahoe Avalanche that killed 7 people in 1982. Which has been in the news this week because it was close to where this weeks Lake Tahoe avalanche was.

I grew up literally in the shadow of Mt Hood in the 70’s-80’s. We had never heard of an avalanche until about 2004. We didn’t even know what the word meant. This is climate change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

Nope, you're wrong. I grew up in Washington State in the 90s. We talked about avalanche danger regularly (we skied, my dad climbed Rainier and other local to Washington mountains) and there were warnings then.

Not only do I remember talking about them, there was a Lake Tahoe Avalanche that killed 7 people in 1982. Which has been in the news this week because it was close to where this weeks Lake Tahoe avalanche was.

I grew up literally in the shadow of Mt Hood in the 70’s-80’s. We had never heard of an avalanche until about 2004. We didn’t even know what the word meant. This is climate change.

I grew up in Detroit in the 80s and even I knew what the word avalanche meant.

This is just the weirdest thing to be fixated on. Avalanches absolutely existed before 2004! In fact, the deadliest known American avalanche happened in 1981 in PNW: https://www.historylink.org/file/10796

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

Nope, you're wrong. I grew up in Washington State in the 90s. We talked about avalanche danger regularly (we skied, my dad climbed Rainier and other local to Washington mountains) and there were warnings then.

Not only do I remember talking about them, there was a Lake Tahoe Avalanche that killed 7 people in 1982. Which has been in the news this week because it was close to where this weeks Lake Tahoe avalanche was.

I grew up literally in the shadow of Mt Hood in the 70’s-80’s. We had never heard of an avalanche until about 2004. We didn’t even know what the word meant. This is climate change.

The climate made a bunch of women on a girls trip ski against warnings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

Nope, you're wrong. I grew up in Washington State in the 90s. We talked about avalanche danger regularly (we skied, my dad climbed Rainier and other local to Washington mountains) and there were warnings then.

Not only do I remember talking about them, there was a Lake Tahoe Avalanche that killed 7 people in 1982. Which has been in the news this week because it was close to where this weeks Lake Tahoe avalanche was.

I grew up literally in the shadow of Mt Hood in the 70’s-80’s. We had never heard of an avalanche until about 2004. We didn’t even know what the word meant. This is climate change.

Mt Hood has a history of yearly avalanches and a particularly bad one in 1986.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

Nope, you're wrong. I grew up in Washington State in the 90s. We talked about avalanche danger regularly (we skied, my dad climbed Rainier and other local to Washington mountains) and there were warnings then.

Not only do I remember talking about them, there was a Lake Tahoe Avalanche that killed 7 people in 1982. Which has been in the news this week because it was close to where this weeks Lake Tahoe avalanche was.

I grew up literally in the shadow of Mt Hood in the 70’s-80’s. We had never heard of an avalanche until about 2004. We didn’t even know what the word meant. This is climate change.

Being proud of your ignorance. Odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

Nope, you're wrong. I grew up in Washington State in the 90s. We talked about avalanche danger regularly (we skied, my dad climbed Rainier and other local to Washington mountains) and there were warnings then.

Not only do I remember talking about them, there was a Lake Tahoe Avalanche that killed 7 people in 1982. Which has been in the news this week because it was close to where this weeks Lake Tahoe avalanche was.

I grew up literally in the shadow of Mt Hood in the 70’s-80’s. We had never heard of an avalanche until about 2004. We didn’t even know what the word meant. This is climate change.

The climate made a bunch of women on a girls trip ski against warnings?

I blame the heteropatriarchy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

Nope, you're wrong. I grew up in Washington State in the 90s. We talked about avalanche danger regularly (we skied, my dad climbed Rainier and other local to Washington mountains) and there were warnings then.

Not only do I remember talking about them, there was a Lake Tahoe Avalanche that killed 7 people in 1982. Which has been in the news this week because it was close to where this weeks Lake Tahoe avalanche was.

I grew up literally in the shadow of Mt Hood in the 70’s-80’s. We had never heard of an avalanche until about 2004. We didn’t even know what the word meant. This is climate change.

Just fyi

https://www.fs.usda.gov/r06/mthood/alerts/avalanches-mt-hood#:~:text=Avalanches%20on%20Mt.-,Hood,to%20know%20before%20you%20go!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

Nope, you're wrong. I grew up in Washington State in the 90s. We talked about avalanche danger regularly (we skied, my dad climbed Rainier and other local to Washington mountains) and there were warnings then.

Not only do I remember talking about them, there was a Lake Tahoe Avalanche that killed 7 people in 1982. Which has been in the news this week because it was close to where this weeks Lake Tahoe avalanche was.

I grew up literally in the shadow of Mt Hood in the 70’s-80’s. We had never heard of an avalanche until about 2004. We didn’t even know what the word meant. This is climate change.

You didn’t know what the word avalanche meant until 2004? You must be super dumb and the schools you went to failed you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But people keep insisting climate change isn’t real. Despite the avalanche of evidence. Pun intended.

All I know is we never had avalanches like this 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true. You're obviously not someone that skis out west much less does helicopter back country skiing.

Grew up skiing out west. Know people killed in their car from an avalanche 20+ years ago. Daily avalanche control is a thing that's been done for decades. Choosing not to ski during HIGH avalanche warnings is also a thing.

Avalanches were basically unheard of until the early 2000’s. And when I say unheard of, I literally mean “no one had ever seen one, ever”. Now they’re commonplace.

Nope, you're wrong. I grew up in Washington State in the 90s. We talked about avalanche danger regularly (we skied, my dad climbed Rainier and other local to Washington mountains) and there were warnings then.

Not only do I remember talking about them, there was a Lake Tahoe Avalanche that killed 7 people in 1982. Which has been in the news this week because it was close to where this weeks Lake Tahoe avalanche was.

I grew up literally in the shadow of Mt Hood in the 70’s-80’s. We had never heard of an avalanche until about 2004. We didn’t even know what the word meant. This is climate change.

You didn’t know what the word avalanche meant until 2004? You must be super dumb and the schools you went to failed you.

I guess that PP must have been super confused about the 1978 movie "Avalanche" with Rock Hudson. Their tiny little hamlet, cut off from the rest of the US, didn't know about this word until 2004 for some reason.