DCPS Selective HSs: What to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I posted up-thread that I agree Walls is not a super strong STEM school . . .but on the other hand, not sure what other class the school should be offering other than AP Chemistry (which is never offered). While true that AP Biology is only offered every other year, kid only needs to take it once so that is fine (just take it the year 10th-12th that it is offered to you)! And I find it hard to believe as one poster above claims that if you don't take AP Chemistry or differential equations in high school you can't do pre-med in college? What? Also, even if Walls offered all these other STEM classes (again, not sure what other schools offer that Walls doesn't other than AP Chem and I guess differential equations?), given required classes to graduate (PE, Health, Senior Seminar, DC history, Internship, etc) I don't think students have room in schedules to take them?? My kid will top out in high school math taking multivariate in 12th grade (after taking Calc BC in 10th and AP Stats in 11th; Walls only allows seniors to take multivariate b/c only one section/not enough room for 11th graders).

Similar with ECs. I don't know if robotics exists or not, but I know it has several other active clubs in STEM fields. A kid can only participate in so many things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep saying there’s no chemistry at Walls? Everyone at Walls takes chemistry. There’s no AP chemistry, but that’s a completely separate question.

Also, the people who are telling you that your kid needs to do two years of college in high school just to get in to a competitive STEM program are lying, usually because your anxiety makes you more likely to buy their services.

VT- a legit top 30 in CS- admits 63% of applicants (engineering OOS isn’t available). You don’t need the 2 years of college math to get in. You probably do need AP Calc AB.

OK but the reality is that many kids going to VT have taken college math, like the kid I know, and it gives them a huge advantage over the other kids and better grades.

Sure, those kids who have not taken the courses can make up the grades later but if you are aiming for medical school or top grad school, you don’t have the luxury of a mediocre freshman year.

And the goalposts just keep moving.

Look, I understand that in the pressure cooker environment of FCPS, it might feel like a kid who isn’t placed in the correct math course in 7th grade is doomed to be shut out of residency 15 years later, but that’s just your little bubble. People who want to raise their kids in that never ending toxic grind can move to Fairfax. There’s no need to import it to DC.

Aside from the fact that this is a very disrespectful take (ie move if you don’t like our low standards) it is a very ill informed opinion. There has been a lot of discussion about making kids attractive candidates for college admission. There has been no discussion of how AP classes literally save kids money. The more classes they can get credit for in college, the more affordable college becomes.

I truly don’t understand why you’re defending mediocre standards. Washington DC should always be striving for excellence.

Many very competitive STEM programs do not accept AP credits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the typical hs in the suburbs does not offer linear algebra.

Actually a lot of the suburban high schools do offer linear algebra now as a dual-enrollment class.

A number of good high schools offer linear algebra at the school. They have enough kids to take it.

My friends son is at Langley and it offers 3 courses past Calculus of which LA is one of them.

Blair offers 3 past Calculus - LA, multivariable calculus and differential equation, and even complex analysis.

If you look at magnet schools in MD, all offer classes past Calculus. Many standard high schools offer at least 1 class past calculus.

Why do we care? We live in DC, and the few kids who need access to those classes can get it. And if a kid can take a full slate of solid classes, but can't take Differential Equations until they're at MIT, oh well? It's not going to wreck their career as a math professor. It just means they will have learned some more history or public speaking or something else worthwhile before they take Diff Eq.

Are you for real?? Get out of your bubble of excuses and low expectations. Walls is supposed to be our “magnet” school and they can’t even offer classes that other standard high schools offer for STEM students.

And you wonder why families with STEM kids don’t stay in DCPS.

BTW, any kid applying to a competitive college in STEM field will be at a huge disadvantage because the majority of kids will have taken these courses.

Come on. Most of the kids I see in CS took AB and no more, and my school is top 30 (and this is my second t30). The honest truth is if you get in a top school, you should retake those classes anyway. They’re taught completely differently (proof based).

You come on. Because I can tell you that any kid going to MIT, like the PP said above, or any competitive school in math, engineering have taken classes past Calculus in high school. Calculus is the floor not the ceiling.

Sure they may have to take linear algebra again in college but you can bet that the kid who already took LA in high school is going to kill it and do well not only in the class but also in other STEM classes that uses math. Ask me how I know. While the kid that just took Cal is going to be at the bottom of the barrel in the class and at a big disadvantage.

The denial from Walls parents how weak the math offerings is just astounding. Don’t make excuses, demand better.

I don't understand what the end goal is with such a miserable approach to academics. You absolutely do not need to do this to have a successful, fulfilling career in STEM.

Regrettably yes you do need to take all the sciences (bio, chem, and physics) plus the hardest math your school offers. I think you could maybe do this via dual enrollment, but it would mean taking time away from extracurriculars or sports which would also make students stand out if the school somehow factored in the difficulty of courses maybe they’d be more students pushing for better course offerings.

From a pure, instrumental “getting into college” standpoint, it’s to students’ benefit that Walls has limited Math offerings. In a world where the only thing that matters to a college is whether you took the most advanced offering, if a school is incentivized to get kids in the best schools possible… there’s a perverse incentive to keep the ceiling on classes as low as possible. I doubt Walls has worked through the logic here, but still.

From a lifelong love of learning standpoint, that kind of advanced math is a pretty impoverished experience in high school. Very few of the kids who take it have the maturity to really handle the material, and we do have programs for those once every decade kids (eg Lurie). I do agree that it will be easier in college if they saw the material in high school.

That advanced math is an impoverished experience in high school? Not sure I understand that. Some people love math.

I love math and I would have hated taking the same course in high school and then again in college. Sounds like a race to nowhere.

So you would rather struggle not ever seeing the material while the other kids have it easy due to having some exposure……

It’s not a race to nowhere when you have a kid who loves math and wants and can do the math.

dp - If the student is talented at math, they are going to do well in college even if they haven't pre-taken the class. Here's a question: how many high schools can actually teach high-level math well?

Well I know a kid in DMV who took a few post Calculus courses at his high school including Linear Algebra.

Freshman engineering major at a very well known school and getting all A’s including an A in Linear Algebra. It absolutely helped him to do well in his college math class and STEM classes with all the advance math he took.

This is the basis for your views? Huh.

Look, Walls should have more advanced science and math offerings.

AND Walls is a solid high school education for a smart, motivated STEM kid.

Both these things can be true.

A high school student doesn't need to pre-take tons of college courses to succeed in college.

Meanwhile, there are not meaningfully better options for a comprehensive high school education for a STEM kid in DC -- public, charter, or private. Possibly J-R, but it has some real off-setting downsides.

Nope. There are better and stronger programs and better options for kids in DC and that is DCI and Basis.

DCPS will just continue to bleed the best STEM students and the families here in denial about the lack of strong STEM programming at the middle and high school are just in denial.

Until we can acknowledge the weaknesses in the system, charters will just continue to gain more traction and DCPS will continue to lose its best students.

DCI and Basis may have stronger STEM offerings. That alone doesn't make them a stronger choice for high school, even for a STEM kid.

Well at least PP above acknowledges the weaker STEM offerings.

But tell us what you think exactly then makes for a stronger choice high school for STEM kid……..

Because broad education -- you know, like thinking and writing -- matters for all students. This is high school; not graduate school nor trade school.

I hire and mentor early career employees in a STEM field. I have no idea what math classes they took in high school. If they don't have strong critical thinking skills and resourcefulness, they will not be successful at the job. Much harder to teach than new math/stats/code concepts.

Respectfully, this is not what people are concerned about. You are discussing early career employees in stem fields meaning they likely went to college or are in college already. We all know the old adage, to be a competitive candidate for top schools, take the hardest classes. But to be completely transparent, students will not be appealing candidates without taking a certain set of classes in high school. I am not the poster insisting on diff eq in high school. However, if your child wants to be pre med, chemistry is crucial. There is no chemistry offered at walls. Ap bio is only offered some years. Ap Calc is pretty weak and would leave my child without a math class at some point. I also think that walls doesn’t have good stem based extracurriculars. Listen we looked at walls critically and after consulting with college counselors were straight up told that we would have to do some serious supplementing or dual enrollment to get my kid to look like an attractive candidate for the colleges they aspire to attend. And no, I’m not talking about the Ivy League. If you just wants to study engineering, you really need to take at least calc bc just to be considered.

I can’t speak for other posters but for myself and my kids, I really feel like dcps once again has let us down. There is no quality application school in dc with the right curriculum for students interested in STEM careers. I am really angry about that. And I’m honestly saddened that (some) people on this thread think that’s okay. Yes I see that you can go to charters and get a good strong stem education (DCI and Basis) but it’s nearly impossible to get in to those schools.

McKinley tech needs to be stronger and I wish I had a straight answer for why Banneker isn’t as desirable as Walls.

Why wasn't it desirable for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the typical hs in the suburbs does not offer linear algebra.

Actually a lot of the suburban high schools do offer linear algebra now as a dual-enrollment class.

A number of good high schools offer linear algebra at the school. They have enough kids to take it.

My friends son is at Langley and it offers 3 courses past Calculus of which LA is one of them.

Blair offers 3 past Calculus - LA, multivariable calculus and differential equation, and even complex analysis.

If you look at magnet schools in MD, all offer classes past Calculus. Many standard high schools offer at least 1 class past calculus.

Why do we care? We live in DC, and the few kids who need access to those classes can get it. And if a kid can take a full slate of solid classes, but can't take Differential Equations until they're at MIT, oh well? It's not going to wreck their career as a math professor. It just means they will have learned some more history or public speaking or something else worthwhile before they take Diff Eq.

Are you for real?? Get out of your bubble of excuses and low expectations. Walls is supposed to be our “magnet” school and they can’t even offer classes that other standard high schools offer for STEM students.

And you wonder why families with STEM kids don’t stay in DCPS.

BTW, any kid applying to a competitive college in STEM field will be at a huge disadvantage because the majority of kids will have taken these courses.

Come on. Most of the kids I see in CS took AB and no more, and my school is top 30 (and this is my second t30). The honest truth is if you get in a top school, you should retake those classes anyway. They’re taught completely differently (proof based).

You come on. Because I can tell you that any kid going to MIT, like the PP said above, or any competitive school in math, engineering have taken classes past Calculus in high school. Calculus is the floor not the ceiling.

Sure they may have to take linear algebra again in college but you can bet that the kid who already took LA in high school is going to kill it and do well not only in the class but also in other STEM classes that uses math. Ask me how I know. While the kid that just took Cal is going to be at the bottom of the barrel in the class and at a big disadvantage.

The denial from Walls parents how weak the math offerings is just astounding. Don’t make excuses, demand better.

I don't understand what the end goal is with such a miserable approach to academics. You absolutely do not need to do this to have a successful, fulfilling career in STEM.

Regrettably yes you do need to take all the sciences (bio, chem, and physics) plus the hardest math your school offers. I think you could maybe do this via dual enrollment, but it would mean taking time away from extracurriculars or sports which would also make students stand out if the school somehow factored in the difficulty of courses maybe they’d be more students pushing for better course offerings.

From a pure, instrumental “getting into college” standpoint, it’s to students’ benefit that Walls has limited Math offerings. In a world where the only thing that matters to a college is whether you took the most advanced offering, if a school is incentivized to get kids in the best schools possible… there’s a perverse incentive to keep the ceiling on classes as low as possible. I doubt Walls has worked through the logic here, but still.

From a lifelong love of learning standpoint, that kind of advanced math is a pretty impoverished experience in high school. Very few of the kids who take it have the maturity to really handle the material, and we do have programs for those once every decade kids (eg Lurie). I do agree that it will be easier in college if they saw the material in high school.

That advanced math is an impoverished experience in high school? Not sure I understand that. Some people love math.

I love math and I would have hated taking the same course in high school and then again in college. Sounds like a race to nowhere.

So you would rather struggle not ever seeing the material while the other kids have it easy due to having some exposure……

It’s not a race to nowhere when you have a kid who loves math and wants and can do the math.

dp - If the student is talented at math, they are going to do well in college even if they haven't pre-taken the class. Here's a question: how many high schools can actually teach high-level math well?

Well I know a kid in DMV who took a few post Calculus courses at his high school including Linear Algebra.

Freshman engineering major at a very well known school and getting all A’s including an A in Linear Algebra. It absolutely helped him to do well in his college math class and STEM classes with all the advance math he took.

This is the basis for your views? Huh.

Look, Walls should have more advanced science and math offerings.

AND Walls is a solid high school education for a smart, motivated STEM kid.

Both these things can be true.

A high school student doesn't need to pre-take tons of college courses to succeed in college.

Meanwhile, there are not meaningfully better options for a comprehensive high school education for a STEM kid in DC -- public, charter, or private. Possibly J-R, but it has some real off-setting downsides.

Nope. There are better and stronger programs and better options for kids in DC and that is DCI and Basis.

DCPS will just continue to bleed the best STEM students and the families here in denial about the lack of strong STEM programming at the middle and high school are just in denial.

Until we can acknowledge the weaknesses in the system, charters will just continue to gain more traction and DCPS will continue to lose its best students.

DCI and Basis may have stronger STEM offerings. That alone doesn't make them a stronger choice for high school, even for a STEM kid.

Well at least PP above acknowledges the weaker STEM offerings.

But tell us what you think exactly then makes for a stronger choice high school for STEM kid……..

Because broad education -- you know, like thinking and writing -- matters for all students. This is high school; not graduate school nor trade school.

I hire and mentor early career employees in a STEM field. I have no idea what math classes they took in high school. If they don't have strong critical thinking skills and resourcefulness, they will not be successful at the job. Much harder to teach than new math/stats/code concepts.

Respectfully, this is not what people are concerned about. You are discussing early career employees in stem fields meaning they likely went to college or are in college already. We all know the old adage, to be a competitive candidate for top schools, take the hardest classes. But to be completely transparent, students will not be appealing candidates without taking a certain set of classes in high school. I am not the poster insisting on diff eq in high school. However, if your child wants to be pre med, chemistry is crucial. There is no chemistry offered at walls. Ap bio is only offered some years. Ap Calc is pretty weak and would leave my child without a math class at some point. I also think that walls doesn’t have good stem based extracurriculars. Listen we looked at walls critically and after consulting with college counselors were straight up told that we would have to do some serious supplementing or dual enrollment to get my kid to look like an attractive candidate for the colleges they aspire to attend. And no, I’m not talking about the Ivy League. If you just wants to study engineering, you really need to take at least calc bc just to be considered.

I can’t speak for other posters but for myself and my kids, I really feel like dcps once again has let us down. There is no quality application school in dc with the right curriculum for students interested in STEM careers. I am really angry about that. And I’m honestly saddened that (some) people on this thread think that’s okay. Yes I see that you can go to charters and get a good strong stem education (DCI and Basis) but it’s nearly impossible to get in to those schools.

McKinley tech needs to be stronger and I wish I had a straight answer for why Banneker isn’t as desirable as Walls.

Why wasn't it desirable for you?

It is deeply desirable for me and my kid. But it seems to be not as well regarded and in curious as to why. I think location is the biggest factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the typical hs in the suburbs does not offer linear algebra.

Actually a lot of the suburban high schools do offer linear algebra now as a dual-enrollment class.

A number of good high schools offer linear algebra at the school. They have enough kids to take it.

My friends son is at Langley and it offers 3 courses past Calculus of which LA is one of them.

Blair offers 3 past Calculus - LA, multivariable calculus and differential equation, and even complex analysis.

If you look at magnet schools in MD, all offer classes past Calculus. Many standard high schools offer at least 1 class past calculus.

Why do we care? We live in DC, and the few kids who need access to those classes can get it. And if a kid can take a full slate of solid classes, but can't take Differential Equations until they're at MIT, oh well? It's not going to wreck their career as a math professor. It just means they will have learned some more history or public speaking or something else worthwhile before they take Diff Eq.

Are you for real?? Get out of your bubble of excuses and low expectations. Walls is supposed to be our “magnet” school and they can’t even offer classes that other standard high schools offer for STEM students.

And you wonder why families with STEM kids don’t stay in DCPS.

BTW, any kid applying to a competitive college in STEM field will be at a huge disadvantage because the majority of kids will have taken these courses.

Come on. Most of the kids I see in CS took AB and no more, and my school is top 30 (and this is my second t30). The honest truth is if you get in a top school, you should retake those classes anyway. They’re taught completely differently (proof based).

You come on. Because I can tell you that any kid going to MIT, like the PP said above, or any competitive school in math, engineering have taken classes past Calculus in high school. Calculus is the floor not the ceiling.

Sure they may have to take linear algebra again in college but you can bet that the kid who already took LA in high school is going to kill it and do well not only in the class but also in other STEM classes that uses math. Ask me how I know. While the kid that just took Cal is going to be at the bottom of the barrel in the class and at a big disadvantage.

The denial from Walls parents how weak the math offerings is just astounding. Don’t make excuses, demand better.

I don't understand what the end goal is with such a miserable approach to academics. You absolutely do not need to do this to have a successful, fulfilling career in STEM.

Regrettably yes you do need to take all the sciences (bio, chem, and physics) plus the hardest math your school offers. I think you could maybe do this via dual enrollment, but it would mean taking time away from extracurriculars or sports which would also make students stand out if the school somehow factored in the difficulty of courses maybe they’d be more students pushing for better course offerings.

From a pure, instrumental “getting into college” standpoint, it’s to students’ benefit that Walls has limited Math offerings. In a world where the only thing that matters to a college is whether you took the most advanced offering, if a school is incentivized to get kids in the best schools possible… there’s a perverse incentive to keep the ceiling on classes as low as possible. I doubt Walls has worked through the logic here, but still.

From a lifelong love of learning standpoint, that kind of advanced math is a pretty impoverished experience in high school. Very few of the kids who take it have the maturity to really handle the material, and we do have programs for those once every decade kids (eg Lurie). I do agree that it will be easier in college if they saw the material in high school.

That advanced math is an impoverished experience in high school? Not sure I understand that. Some people love math.

I love math and I would have hated taking the same course in high school and then again in college. Sounds like a race to nowhere.

So you would rather struggle not ever seeing the material while the other kids have it easy due to having some exposure……

It’s not a race to nowhere when you have a kid who loves math and wants and can do the math.

dp - If the student is talented at math, they are going to do well in college even if they haven't pre-taken the class. Here's a question: how many high schools can actually teach high-level math well?

Well I know a kid in DMV who took a few post Calculus courses at his high school including Linear Algebra.

Freshman engineering major at a very well known school and getting all A’s including an A in Linear Algebra. It absolutely helped him to do well in his college math class and STEM classes with all the advance math he took.

This is the basis for your views? Huh.

Look, Walls should have more advanced science and math offerings.

AND Walls is a solid high school education for a smart, motivated STEM kid.

Both these things can be true.

A high school student doesn't need to pre-take tons of college courses to succeed in college.

Meanwhile, there are not meaningfully better options for a comprehensive high school education for a STEM kid in DC -- public, charter, or private. Possibly J-R, but it has some real off-setting downsides.

Nope. There are better and stronger programs and better options for kids in DC and that is DCI and Basis.

DCPS will just continue to bleed the best STEM students and the families here in denial about the lack of strong STEM programming at the middle and high school are just in denial.

Until we can acknowledge the weaknesses in the system, charters will just continue to gain more traction and DCPS will continue to lose its best students.

DCI and Basis may have stronger STEM offerings. That alone doesn't make them a stronger choice for high school, even for a STEM kid.

Well at least PP above acknowledges the weaker STEM offerings.

But tell us what you think exactly then makes for a stronger choice high school for STEM kid……..

Because broad education -- you know, like thinking and writing -- matters for all students. This is high school; not graduate school nor trade school.

I hire and mentor early career employees in a STEM field. I have no idea what math classes they took in high school. If they don't have strong critical thinking skills and resourcefulness, they will not be successful at the job. Much harder to teach than new math/stats/code concepts.

Respectfully, this is not what people are concerned about. You are discussing early career employees in stem fields meaning they likely went to college or are in college already. We all know the old adage, to be a competitive candidate for top schools, take the hardest classes. But to be completely transparent, students will not be appealing candidates without taking a certain set of classes in high school. I am not the poster insisting on diff eq in high school. However, if your child wants to be pre med, chemistry is crucial. There is no chemistry offered at walls. Ap bio is only offered some years. Ap Calc is pretty weak and would leave my child without a math class at some point. I also think that walls doesn’t have good stem based extracurriculars. Listen we looked at walls critically and after consulting with college counselors were straight up told that we would have to do some serious supplementing or dual enrollment to get my kid to look like an attractive candidate for the colleges they aspire to attend. And no, I’m not talking about the Ivy League. If you just wants to study engineering, you really need to take at least calc bc just to be considered.

I can’t speak for other posters but for myself and my kids, I really feel like dcps once again has let us down. There is no quality application school in dc with the right curriculum for students interested in STEM careers. I am really angry about that. And I’m honestly saddened that (some) people on this thread think that’s okay. Yes I see that you can go to charters and get a good strong stem education (DCI and Basis) but it’s nearly impossible to get in to those schools.

McKinley tech needs to be stronger and I wish I had a straight answer for why Banneker isn’t as desirable as Walls.

Why wasn't it desirable for you?

It is deeply desirable for me and my kid. But it seems to be not as well regarded and in curious as to why. I think location is the biggest factor.

The curriculum is also somewhat limited. Students can’t take four years of the same language, and the AP science offerings are limited. Even within the IB program there are limited options, and not everyone can do IB. I think there’s no higher level IB math option, for instance, and only biology for IB science. I hope the school expands its offerings as the student population grows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the typical hs in the suburbs does not offer linear algebra.

Actually a lot of the suburban high schools do offer linear algebra now as a dual-enrollment class.

A number of good high schools offer linear algebra at the school. They have enough kids to take it.

My friends son is at Langley and it offers 3 courses past Calculus of which LA is one of them.

Blair offers 3 past Calculus - LA, multivariable calculus and differential equation, and even complex analysis.

If you look at magnet schools in MD, all offer classes past Calculus. Many standard high schools offer at least 1 class past calculus.

Why do we care? We live in DC, and the few kids who need access to those classes can get it. And if a kid can take a full slate of solid classes, but can't take Differential Equations until they're at MIT, oh well? It's not going to wreck their career as a math professor. It just means they will have learned some more history or public speaking or something else worthwhile before they take Diff Eq.

Are you for real?? Get out of your bubble of excuses and low expectations. Walls is supposed to be our “magnet” school and they can’t even offer classes that other standard high schools offer for STEM students.

And you wonder why families with STEM kids don’t stay in DCPS.

BTW, any kid applying to a competitive college in STEM field will be at a huge disadvantage because the majority of kids will have taken these courses.

Come on. Most of the kids I see in CS took AB and no more, and my school is top 30 (and this is my second t30). The honest truth is if you get in a top school, you should retake those classes anyway. They’re taught completely differently (proof based).

You come on. Because I can tell you that any kid going to MIT, like the PP said above, or any competitive school in math, engineering have taken classes past Calculus in high school. Calculus is the floor not the ceiling.

Sure they may have to take linear algebra again in college but you can bet that the kid who already took LA in high school is going to kill it and do well not only in the class but also in other STEM classes that uses math. Ask me how I know. While the kid that just took Cal is going to be at the bottom of the barrel in the class and at a big disadvantage.

The denial from Walls parents how weak the math offerings is just astounding. Don’t make excuses, demand better.

I don't understand what the end goal is with such a miserable approach to academics. You absolutely do not need to do this to have a successful, fulfilling career in STEM.

Regrettably yes you do need to take all the sciences (bio, chem, and physics) plus the hardest math your school offers. I think you could maybe do this via dual enrollment, but it would mean taking time away from extracurriculars or sports which would also make students stand out if the school somehow factored in the difficulty of courses maybe they’d be more students pushing for better course offerings.

From a pure, instrumental “getting into college” standpoint, it’s to students’ benefit that Walls has limited Math offerings. In a world where the only thing that matters to a college is whether you took the most advanced offering, if a school is incentivized to get kids in the best schools possible… there’s a perverse incentive to keep the ceiling on classes as low as possible. I doubt Walls has worked through the logic here, but still.

From a lifelong love of learning standpoint, that kind of advanced math is a pretty impoverished experience in high school. Very few of the kids who take it have the maturity to really handle the material, and we do have programs for those once every decade kids (eg Lurie). I do agree that it will be easier in college if they saw the material in high school.

That advanced math is an impoverished experience in high school? Not sure I understand that. Some people love math.

I love math and I would have hated taking the same course in high school and then again in college. Sounds like a race to nowhere.

So you would rather struggle not ever seeing the material while the other kids have it easy due to having some exposure……

It’s not a race to nowhere when you have a kid who loves math and wants and can do the math.

dp - If the student is talented at math, they are going to do well in college even if they haven't pre-taken the class. Here's a question: how many high schools can actually teach high-level math well?

Well I know a kid in DMV who took a few post Calculus courses at his high school including Linear Algebra.

Freshman engineering major at a very well known school and getting all A’s including an A in Linear Algebra. It absolutely helped him to do well in his college math class and STEM classes with all the advance math he took.

This is the basis for your views? Huh.

Look, Walls should have more advanced science and math offerings.

AND Walls is a solid high school education for a smart, motivated STEM kid.

Both these things can be true.

A high school student doesn't need to pre-take tons of college courses to succeed in college.

Meanwhile, there are not meaningfully better options for a comprehensive high school education for a STEM kid in DC -- public, charter, or private. Possibly J-R, but it has some real off-setting downsides.

Nope. There are better and stronger programs and better options for kids in DC and that is DCI and Basis.

DCPS will just continue to bleed the best STEM students and the families here in denial about the lack of strong STEM programming at the middle and high school are just in denial.

Until we can acknowledge the weaknesses in the system, charters will just continue to gain more traction and DCPS will continue to lose its best students.

DCI and Basis may have stronger STEM offerings. That alone doesn't make them a stronger choice for high school, even for a STEM kid.

Well at least PP above acknowledges the weaker STEM offerings.

But tell us what you think exactly then makes for a stronger choice high school for STEM kid……..

Because broad education -- you know, like thinking and writing -- matters for all students. This is high school; not graduate school nor trade school.

I hire and mentor early career employees in a STEM field. I have no idea what math classes they took in high school. If they don't have strong critical thinking skills and resourcefulness, they will not be successful at the job. Much harder to teach than new math/stats/code concepts.

Respectfully, this is not what people are concerned about. You are discussing early career employees in stem fields meaning they likely went to college or are in college already. We all know the old adage, to be a competitive candidate for top schools, take the hardest classes. But to be completely transparent, students will not be appealing candidates without taking a certain set of classes in high school. I am not the poster insisting on diff eq in high school. However, if your child wants to be pre med, chemistry is crucial. There is no chemistry offered at walls. Ap bio is only offered some years. Ap Calc is pretty weak and would leave my child without a math class at some point. I also think that walls doesn’t have good stem based extracurriculars. Listen we looked at walls critically and after consulting with college counselors were straight up told that we would have to do some serious supplementing or dual enrollment to get my kid to look like an attractive candidate for the colleges they aspire to attend. And no, I’m not talking about the Ivy League. If you just wants to study engineering, you really need to take at least calc bc just to be considered.

I can’t speak for other posters but for myself and my kids, I really feel like dcps once again has let us down. There is no quality application school in dc with the right curriculum for students interested in STEM careers. I am really angry about that. And I’m honestly saddened that (some) people on this thread think that’s okay. Yes I see that you can go to charters and get a good strong stem education (DCI and Basis) but it’s nearly impossible to get in to those schools.

McKinley tech needs to be stronger and I wish I had a straight answer for why Banneker isn’t as desirable as Walls.

Why wasn't it desirable for you?

It is deeply desirable for me and my kid. But it seems to be not as well regarded and in curious as to why. I think location is the biggest factor.

You can see the course offerings here -- no BC Calc, no AP physics, no AP Chem.

Course catalogs really tell the whole story with high schools.

https://www.benjaminbanneker.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=261780&type=d

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the typical hs in the suburbs does not offer linear algebra.

Actually a lot of the suburban high schools do offer linear algebra now as a dual-enrollment class.

A number of good high schools offer linear algebra at the school. They have enough kids to take it.

My friends son is at Langley and it offers 3 courses past Calculus of which LA is one of them.

Blair offers 3 past Calculus - LA, multivariable calculus and differential equation, and even complex analysis.

If you look at magnet schools in MD, all offer classes past Calculus. Many standard high schools offer at least 1 class past calculus.

Why do we care? We live in DC, and the few kids who need access to those classes can get it. And if a kid can take a full slate of solid classes, but can't take Differential Equations until they're at MIT, oh well? It's not going to wreck their career as a math professor. It just means they will have learned some more history or public speaking or something else worthwhile before they take Diff Eq.

Are you for real?? Get out of your bubble of excuses and low expectations. Walls is supposed to be our “magnet” school and they can’t even offer classes that other standard high schools offer for STEM students.

And you wonder why families with STEM kids don’t stay in DCPS.

BTW, any kid applying to a competitive college in STEM field will be at a huge disadvantage because the majority of kids will have taken these courses.

Come on. Most of the kids I see in CS took AB and no more, and my school is top 30 (and this is my second t30). The honest truth is if you get in a top school, you should retake those classes anyway. They’re taught completely differently (proof based).

You come on. Because I can tell you that any kid going to MIT, like the PP said above, or any competitive school in math, engineering have taken classes past Calculus in high school. Calculus is the floor not the ceiling.

Sure they may have to take linear algebra again in college but you can bet that the kid who already took LA in high school is going to kill it and do well not only in the class but also in other STEM classes that uses math. Ask me how I know. While the kid that just took Cal is going to be at the bottom of the barrel in the class and at a big disadvantage.

The denial from Walls parents how weak the math offerings is just astounding. Don’t make excuses, demand better.

I don't understand what the end goal is with such a miserable approach to academics. You absolutely do not need to do this to have a successful, fulfilling career in STEM.

Regrettably yes you do need to take all the sciences (bio, chem, and physics) plus the hardest math your school offers. I think you could maybe do this via dual enrollment, but it would mean taking time away from extracurriculars or sports which would also make students stand out if the school somehow factored in the difficulty of courses maybe they’d be more students pushing for better course offerings.

From a pure, instrumental “getting into college” standpoint, it’s to students’ benefit that Walls has limited Math offerings. In a world where the only thing that matters to a college is whether you took the most advanced offering, if a school is incentivized to get kids in the best schools possible… there’s a perverse incentive to keep the ceiling on classes as low as possible. I doubt Walls has worked through the logic here, but still.

From a lifelong love of learning standpoint, that kind of advanced math is a pretty impoverished experience in high school. Very few of the kids who take it have the maturity to really handle the material, and we do have programs for those once every decade kids (eg Lurie). I do agree that it will be easier in college if they saw the material in high school.

That advanced math is an impoverished experience in high school? Not sure I understand that. Some people love math.

I love math and I would have hated taking the same course in high school and then again in college. Sounds like a race to nowhere.

So you would rather struggle not ever seeing the material while the other kids have it easy due to having some exposure……

It’s not a race to nowhere when you have a kid who loves math and wants and can do the math.

dp - If the student is talented at math, they are going to do well in college even if they haven't pre-taken the class. Here's a question: how many high schools can actually teach high-level math well?

Well I know a kid in DMV who took a few post Calculus courses at his high school including Linear Algebra.

Freshman engineering major at a very well known school and getting all A’s including an A in Linear Algebra. It absolutely helped him to do well in his college math class and STEM classes with all the advance math he took.

This is the basis for your views? Huh.

Look, Walls should have more advanced science and math offerings.

AND Walls is a solid high school education for a smart, motivated STEM kid.

Both these things can be true.

A high school student doesn't need to pre-take tons of college courses to succeed in college.

Meanwhile, there are not meaningfully better options for a comprehensive high school education for a STEM kid in DC -- public, charter, or private. Possibly J-R, but it has some real off-setting downsides.

Nope. There are better and stronger programs and better options for kids in DC and that is DCI and Basis.

DCPS will just continue to bleed the best STEM students and the families here in denial about the lack of strong STEM programming at the middle and high school are just in denial.

Until we can acknowledge the weaknesses in the system, charters will just continue to gain more traction and DCPS will continue to lose its best students.

DCI and Basis may have stronger STEM offerings. That alone doesn't make them a stronger choice for high school, even for a STEM kid.

Well at least PP above acknowledges the weaker STEM offerings.

But tell us what you think exactly then makes for a stronger choice high school for STEM kid……..

Because broad education -- you know, like thinking and writing -- matters for all students. This is high school; not graduate school nor trade school.

I hire and mentor early career employees in a STEM field. I have no idea what math classes they took in high school. If they don't have strong critical thinking skills and resourcefulness, they will not be successful at the job. Much harder to teach than new math/stats/code concepts.

Respectfully, this is not what people are concerned about. You are discussing early career employees in stem fields meaning they likely went to college or are in college already. We all know the old adage, to be a competitive candidate for top schools, take the hardest classes. But to be completely transparent, students will not be appealing candidates without taking a certain set of classes in high school. I am not the poster insisting on diff eq in high school. However, if your child wants to be pre med, chemistry is crucial. There is no chemistry offered at walls. Ap bio is only offered some years. Ap Calc is pretty weak and would leave my child without a math class at some point. I also think that walls doesn’t have good stem based extracurriculars. Listen we looked at walls critically and after consulting with college counselors were straight up told that we would have to do some serious supplementing or dual enrollment to get my kid to look like an attractive candidate for the colleges they aspire to attend. And no, I’m not talking about the Ivy League. If you just wants to study engineering, you really need to take at least calc bc just to be considered.

I can’t speak for other posters but for myself and my kids, I really feel like dcps once again has let us down. There is no quality application school in dc with the right curriculum for students interested in STEM careers. I am really angry about that. And I’m honestly saddened that (some) people on this thread think that’s okay. Yes I see that you can go to charters and get a good strong stem education (DCI and Basis) but it’s nearly impossible to get in to those schools.

McKinley tech needs to be stronger and I wish I had a straight answer for why Banneker isn’t as desirable as Walls.

Why wasn't it desirable for you?

It is deeply desirable for me and my kid. But it seems to be not as well regarded and in curious as to why. I think location is the biggest factor.

The curriculum is also somewhat limited. Students can’t take four years of the same language, and the AP science offerings are limited. Even within the IB program there are limited options, and not everyone can do IB. I think there’s no higher level IB math option, for instance, and only biology for IB science. I hope the school expands its offerings as the student population grows.

Course offerings are even more limited than Walls.

Way too much homework of which much is busywork

[Anonymous]

What high schools in DCPS offer higher math classes than Walls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What high schools in DCPS offer higher math classes than Walls?

The highest math class offered at the school is Calculus.

No DCPS high school offers any math past Calculus in the whole system which is shocking in this day and age in addition to not offering all the standard AP science classes.

You can do dual enrollment but it is not the same and challenging in regards to coordinating it with full schedule at the school, logistics, etc…

[Anonymous]

When you say “calculus” you mean multivariate right? Walls offers that - the next course after calc BC. That seems fine to me! Majority of kids only get to calc AB or BC by senior year anyway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not so bothered by the lack of math courses at Walls (although it is pretty bad). It’s the lack of math offerings plus the lack of science offerings plus the lack of clubs and extras to support stem minded kids as compared to other schools. It’s the DCPS crown jewel, why is it so mediocre? Why isn’t McKinley stronger? Kids in dc shouldn’t have to try to lottery for the few spots in decent charters to have the opportunity to go into stem careers. And sure, you could take some dual enrollment classes. But I doubt kids can take essentially half their classes as college dual enrollment which would be the case to be competitive to get into literally any STEM program.

Because it’s not DCPS’s “crown jewel.” That’s Banneker. As someone else noted, Walls is just popular with the Ward 3 crowd.

And that’s because a lot of Ward 3 doesn’t want to make the commute to Banneker. If you put Banneker in Ward 3, it would be a whole other story.

sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not so bothered by the lack of math courses at Walls (although it is pretty bad). It’s the lack of math offerings plus the lack of science offerings plus the lack of clubs and extras to support stem minded kids as compared to other schools. It’s the DCPS crown jewel, why is it so mediocre? Why isn’t McKinley stronger? Kids in dc shouldn’t have to try to lottery for the few spots in decent charters to have the opportunity to go into stem careers. And sure, you could take some dual enrollment classes. But I doubt kids can take essentially half their classes as college dual enrollment which would be the case to be competitive to get into literally any STEM program.

Because it’s not DCPS’s “crown jewel.” That’s Banneker. As someone else noted, Walls is just popular with the Ward 3 crowd.

And that’s because a lot of Ward 3 doesn’t want to make the commute to Banneker. If you put Banneker in Ward 3, it would be a whole other story.

sure.

Of course that's true. Traffic is a pain in the ass and there's nothing nefarious about acknowledging that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not so bothered by the lack of math courses at Walls (although it is pretty bad). It’s the lack of math offerings plus the lack of science offerings plus the lack of clubs and extras to support stem minded kids as compared to other schools. It’s the DCPS crown jewel, why is it so mediocre? Why isn’t McKinley stronger? Kids in dc shouldn’t have to try to lottery for the few spots in decent charters to have the opportunity to go into stem careers. And sure, you could take some dual enrollment classes. But I doubt kids can take essentially half their classes as college dual enrollment which would be the case to be competitive to get into literally any STEM program.

Because it’s not DCPS’s “crown jewel.” That’s Banneker. As someone else noted, Walls is just popular with the Ward 3 crowd.

And that’s because a lot of Ward 3 doesn’t want to make the commute to Banneker. If you put Banneker in Ward 3, it would be a whole other story.

sure.

Of course that's true. Traffic is a pain in the ass and there's nothing nefarious about acknowledging that.

Is everyone driving their kid to SWW? The Metro commutes to SWW and Banneker are pretty comparable from a lot of Ward 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What high schools in DCPS offer higher math classes than Walls?

The highest math class offered at the school is Calculus.

No DCPS high school offers any math past Calculus in the whole system which is shocking in this day and age in addition to not offering all the standard AP science classes.

You can do dual enrollment but it is not the same and challenging in regards to coordinating it with full schedule at the school, logistics, etc…

Wait how is dual enrollment not the same? Are you really arguing a high school diff EQ class is better than a dual enrollment diff EQ class at a university? Be serious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you say “calculus” you mean multivariate right? Walls offers that - the next course after calc BC. That seems fine to me! Majority of kids only get to calc AB or BC by senior year anyway

Lots of kids would max out of math classes by junior year. My own child would.