What’s the point of going to a top school if you end up in the same place as someone who didn’t

[Anonymous]

I liken top schools to top VC funds.

Places like Sequoia have a much better track record than most other VCs even though most of Sequoia’s investments are failures.

Just so happens they have more home runs and grand slams than the average VC fund to more than compensate for 70% of their investments going to zero or near zero.

The elite schools attract kids hoping to hit a home run or a grand slam, even though 70% don’t have the drive or understanding of how to leverage what the school offers.

They won’t be homeless, but they will end up in everyday jobs/careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the point of driving a Mercedes when the Hyundai gets you the same place?

The actual cost of these cars is not as different as you think, and the main function is the same.

You are paying $40K more to cover luxury premium which means a lot of advertising, better grades of leather and plastic, and some showy stuff like color-changing light pipes that run all around the cabin and extra big display screens.

The quality and reliability could easily be the same.

Some would say you're paying $40K for nothing.

The acceleration, handling, and cabin volume are far superior in a Mercedes. Worth an extra $40K? Probably not. But saying "you're paying $40K for nothing" is straight-up disingenuous.

How much of the time do you spend driving above 75?

I'm assuming the same size of vehicle.

When was the last time you drove a mid-priced Hyundai?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your alumni network is different. Your potential pool of SOs/life partners is different. Your enjoyment of the learning may be different.

I never understand this comment. The median age for college educated people to get married these days is 30 (and even higher among those with advanced degrees). The odds these days that you are meeting a life partner in college are low.

Cream of the crop marry in their 20s. The leftovers scrabble in their 30s to marry what’s left.

I agree with this! It was true when I was in college 30 years ago and it's true now. I see it amongst my staff - most have PhDs, some MS in STEM field. The Ines that come in married are just.....better.... better looking, better background, smarter, etc.....the ones that go on the hunt until their 30s usually have some social-emotional issues. I know it's an unpopular idea, but it's true.

Now the ones that get married in their late teens or early 20s are different still. These are usually primed for a life of instability.

Mid to late 20s is optimal.

Yikes. That is not true at all.

+1. All of these marriage comments are a good reminder of how out of touch and weird the posters here are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much of the time do you spend driving above 75?

The point of superior acceleration isn't to drive above 75.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, I should been more precise. Top graduate schools see a 4.0 from non-flagship state school applicants the same as a 4.0 from HYPSM, all else being equal?

No because all else is NOT equal. The peer group is different and faculty who have taught at regional publics vs top15/ivy/top5 publics know there is a wide margin of difference. Course quality and rigor are not the same and the gap has widened: regional schools have to water down the curriculum to avoid too many low grades. It is not just lower publics affected by the pressure. RecentlyNYU organic chem professor came under fire for low grades and he countered in an op ed about the weaker students compared to when he taught at Princeton. Talk to professors. We have them in our immediate family. What is expected as far as pace and depth is significantly different between ivies and t25-40 range and is extremely different compared to regional publics and nonelite privates.
Grad admissions knows the reputation and quality of the school. Also do not underestimate their ability to look at the specific relevant courses: upper level/ grad courses matter for various fields. You would be surprised how often harder courses are skipped by 3.9+ students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the means to pay for the IVY with out debt it will always be worth it.

Say you go to medical school and you are Harvard, Yale, etc trained. And you decide to make a career move or say you work for the government and opt to go back in to private practice. The Harvard trained doctor is always going to be given a leg up vs. the doctor from another school.

If you’re smart enough to be educated at an IVY you stand above the others. Even if only on paper. It opens doors.

It provides the ability to meet and marry a spouse who will be at an earning level well above others.

Membership has its benefits.

"Smart enough" isn't what gets people into Ivy league schools though. Plenty of people don't apply or don't get in who have the same level of intelligence, even the same stats.

Correct it is more than intelligence alone, it is also disciplined, ambitious, and highly organized that gets one into this level. Some of those that have these qualities do not get in or do not apply. Some get in with huge hooks that do not possess those qualities.
However, it remains true that the highest concentration of smart, driven students are at ivies/mit/stanford and a few other schools.
The peers are the main reason why students (and parents) are vying to get in to elites. It is why the major of those who got to attend want our kids to go to similar schools: we experienced it and know the value of that competitive and intelligent mix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, I should been more precise. Top graduate schools see a 4.0 from non-flagship state school applicants the same as a 4.0 from HYPSM, all else being equal?

No because all else is NOT equal. The peer group is different and faculty who have taught at regional publics vs top15/ivy/top5 publics know there is a wide margin of difference. Course quality and rigor are not the same and the gap has widened: regional schools have to water down the curriculum to avoid too many low grades. It is not just lower publics affected by the pressure. RecentlyNYU organic chem professor came under fire for low grades and he countered in an op ed about the weaker students compared to when he taught at Princeton. Talk to professors. We have them in our immediate family. What is expected as far as pace and depth is significantly different between ivies and t25-40 range and is extremely different compared to regional publics and nonelite privates.
Grad admissions knows the reputation and quality of the school. Also do not underestimate their ability to look at the specific relevant courses: upper level/ grad courses matter for various fields. You would be surprised how often harder courses are skipped by 3.9+ students.

This is like the tenth most important thing when evaluating a student’s profile for grad school admission. I won’t say it has zero impact but there are a lot of other factors that are far more important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the means to pay for the IVY with out debt it will always be worth it.

Say you go to medical school and you are Harvard, Yale, etc trained. And you decide to make a career move or say you work for the government and opt to go back in to private practice. The Harvard trained doctor is always going to be given a leg up vs. the doctor from another school.

If you’re smart enough to be educated at an IVY you stand above the others. Even if only on paper. It opens doors.

It provides the ability to meet and marry a spouse who will be at an earning level well above others.

Membership has its benefits.

"Smart enough" isn't what gets people into Ivy league schools though. Plenty of people don't apply or don't get in who have the same level of intelligence, even the same stats.

Correct it is more than intelligence alone, it is also disciplined, ambitious, and highly organized that gets one into this level. Some of those that have these qualities do not get in or do not apply. Some get in with huge hooks that do not possess those qualities.
However, it remains true that the highest concentration of smart, driven students are at ivies/mit/stanford and a few other schools.
The peers are the main reason why students (and parents) are vying to get in to elites. It is why the major of those who got to attend want our kids to go to similar schools: we experienced it and know the value of that competitive and intelligent mix.

This is overwhelmingly not the main reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the means to pay for the IVY with out debt it will always be worth it.

Say you go to medical school and you are Harvard, Yale, etc trained. And you decide to make a career move or say you work for the government and opt to go back in to private practice. The Harvard trained doctor is always going to be given a leg up vs. the doctor from another school.

If you’re smart enough to be educated at an IVY you stand above the others. Even if only on paper. It opens doors.

It provides the ability to meet and marry a spouse who will be at an earning level well above others.

Membership has its benefits.

"Smart enough" isn't what gets people into Ivy league schools though. Plenty of people don't apply or don't get in who have the same level of intelligence, even the same stats.

Correct it is more than intelligence alone, it is also disciplined, ambitious, and highly organized that gets one into this level. Some of those that have these qualities do not get in or do not apply. Some get in with huge hooks that do not possess those qualities.
However, it remains true that the highest concentration of smart, driven students are at ivies/mit/stanford and a few other schools.
The peers are the main reason why students (and parents) are vying to get in to elites. It is why the major of those who got to attend want our kids to go to similar schools: we experienced it and know the value of that competitive and intelligent mix.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the means to pay for the IVY with out debt it will always be worth it.

Say you go to medical school and you are Harvard, Yale, etc trained. And you decide to make a career move or say you work for the government and opt to go back in to private practice. The Harvard trained doctor is always going to be given a leg up vs. the doctor from another school.

If you’re smart enough to be educated at an IVY you stand above the others. Even if only on paper. It opens doors.

It provides the ability to meet and marry a spouse who will be at an earning level well above others.

Membership has its benefits.

"Smart enough" isn't what gets people into Ivy league schools though. Plenty of people don't apply or don't get in who have the same level of intelligence, even the same stats.

Correct it is more than intelligence alone, it is also disciplined, ambitious, and highly organized that gets one into this level. Some of those that have these qualities do not get in or do not apply. Some get in with huge hooks that do not possess those qualities.
However, it remains true that the highest concentration of smart, driven students are at ivies/mit/stanford and a few other schools.
The peers are the main reason why students (and parents) are vying to get in to elites. It is why the major of those who got to attend want our kids to go to similar schools: we experienced it and know the value of that competitive and intelligent mix.

This is overwhelmingly not the main reason.

Speak for yourself, it was a major reason for both me and my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the means to pay for the IVY with out debt it will always be worth it.

Say you go to medical school and you are Harvard, Yale, etc trained. And you decide to make a career move or say you work for the government and opt to go back in to private practice. The Harvard trained doctor is always going to be given a leg up vs. the doctor from another school.

If you’re smart enough to be educated at an IVY you stand above the others. Even if only on paper. It opens doors.

It provides the ability to meet and marry a spouse who will be at an earning level well above others.

Membership has its benefits.

"Smart enough" isn't what gets people into Ivy league schools though. Plenty of people don't apply or don't get in who have the same level of intelligence, even the same stats.

Correct it is more than intelligence alone, it is also disciplined, ambitious, and highly organized that gets one into this level. Some of those that have these qualities do not get in or do not apply. Some get in with huge hooks that do not possess those qualities.
However, it remains true that the highest concentration of smart, driven students are at ivies/mit/stanford and a few other schools.
The peers are the main reason why students (and parents) are vying to get in to elites. It is why the major of those who got to attend want our kids to go to similar schools: we experienced it and know the value of that competitive and intelligent mix.

This is overwhelmingly not the main reason.

Speak for yourself, it was a major reason for both me and my kids.

“Speak for yourself, this was the reason for me” okay so you are speaking for yourself then.

[Anonymous]

This is like buying home insurance and crying that the house did not burn down.

[Anonymous]

I went to a lesser Cal State but got into an elite grad program in a cohort of mostly Ivy+ grads. In that entering class the next crappiest alma mater after mine was UVM, then Reed, then Wash U, and then rest were Ivy+ -- about a dozen of us.

Did I, in emerging from my institutional sewer, single-handedly and immediately discredit all the striving and credentializing of my distinguished classmates? That would be an awesome power, but I don't think I possess it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the means to pay for the IVY with out debt it will always be worth it.

Say you go to medical school and you are Harvard, Yale, etc trained. And you decide to make a career move or say you work for the government and opt to go back in to private practice. The Harvard trained doctor is always going to be given a leg up vs. the doctor from another school.

If you’re smart enough to be educated at an IVY you stand above the others. Even if only on paper. It opens doors.

It provides the ability to meet and marry a spouse who will be at an earning level well above others.

Membership has its benefits.

I

"Smart enough" isn't what gets people into Ivy league schools though. Plenty of people don't apply or don't get in who have the same level of intelligence, even the same stats.

Correct it is more than intelligence alone, it is also disciplined, ambitious, and highly organized that gets one into this level. Some of those that have these qualities do not get in or do not apply. Some get in with huge hooks that do not possess those qualities.
However, it remains true that the highest concentration of smart, driven students are at ivies/mit/stanford and a few other schools.
The peers are the main reason why students (and parents) are vying to get in to elites. It is why the major of those who got to attend want our kids to go to similar schools: we experienced it and know the value of that competitive and intelligent mix.

This is overwhelmingly not the main reason.

Speak for yourself, it was a major reason for both me and my kids.

“Speak for yourself, this was the reason for me” okay so you are speaking for yourself then.

Why pick a fight? I don't think we're alone here. I'm in agreement with the PP who said peer group was a big factor. You can disagree but it's not like this is settled gospel.

[Anonymous]

The top 20% of Ivies, the top 10% of state flagships, and the top 5% of internationally renowned universities - all have a shot at the brass ring in America.

So, different percentage ranges within each college type meet at the workplace. However, the Ivy gives you more leeway in where you can land successfully.