McDaniel on FCPS budget

[Anonymous]

jvmorgan wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“A meals tax would save Fairfax County residents money compared with raising the same revenues through real estate taxes, thanks largely to the fact that 30% of meals tax revenues would be expected to come from visitors to Fairfax County.”

LOL, give it up.

As an engaged citizen of Fairfax County who wants to see its government adopt smart policies, I am happy to engage in public discussion on matters such as a meals tax where I have something useful to contribute. I am sure that opponents of a meals tax, who really don’t have a good argument against raising revenues in a manner that costs Fairfax County residents less than it would cost them to raise the same revenues through real estate taxes, would be happy for me to shut up with all the facts and logic. But I don’t want to disengage simply because some people, perhaps driven by ideology rather than by any sort of objective analysis, don’t want to hear why a meals tax in Fairfax County makes a lot sense. I am proud to show my support for improving our local government tax base through diversification of revenues which would increase the expected growth in the tax base (food away from home expenditures in Northern Virginia grow about a percentage point higher than real estate assessments), would increase the expected stability of tax revenues (growth in food away from home expenditures in Northern Virginia are poorly correlated with growth in real estate assessments), and that would cost Fairfax County residents less (about 50% for lower-income households and about 25% for higher-income households) than real estate taxes in order to raise equivalent revenues.

I, for one, appreciate your informative input in this thread and I agree with you about diversifying the county's revenue streams through a meal tax.

A lot of the comments in this thread are reflexively rejecting this proposal that would actually save them money in the long run because of concerns about cutting bloat in the school system. There is no reason these two methods should be mutually exclusive. In fact, there are almost certainly lots of areas in which FCPS could save money, starting with administrative bloat at Gatehouse, and a comprehensive 360 audit would help identify areas that are ripe for cuts and this is independent of a meals tax.

As the commercial property tax money dries up, the county is also going to have to take a hard look at its residential real estate tax policy. The population as a whole is aging rapidly, and the exemptions given to low-income seniors who might expect to retire at 62 and survive on SS and little else for 25+ years while having their RE tax subsidized just so they can "age in place" living alone in a 3 or 4-br house may not be sustainable. Incentivizing people to free up that space would also open up starter housing for young families, given the housing shortage. There is no sense in talking about zoning reform or middle income housing if the rates keep going up and the people who actually have to pay the taxes can't afford them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the lottery money was supposed to be for schools. what happened to that?

don't forget everyone's favorite-the car tax.

Still not enough?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the lottery money was supposed to be for schools. what happened to that?

don't forget everyone's favorite-the car tax.

Still not enough?

Move pension funding to 401k like the rest of us. It will open up the budget and everyone can still get some form of retirement like the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

jvmorgan wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. It will probably feature prominently in state wide adds if the council imposes a meals tax a few years after residents say no. Locally, it won't impact anything. State wide, it might swing elections

It has been nearly eight years since the 2016 meals tax referendum. During the dueling campaigns leading up to that referendum, meals tax opponents threw out claims like spaghetti at the wall (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-fairfax-county-voters-really-think-about-taxes-and-spending/2018/03/01/30aa7106-1bda-11e8-98f5-ceecfa8741b6_story.html). For example, some of the people I talked to were absolutely convinced that a meals tax would hurt lower-income households the most, a falsehood that was recently trotted out once again, but that doesn’t accord with the reality that it would cost the lowest-income households half as much to help raise revenues through a meals tax as it would cost them to raise such revenues through real estate taxes.

Wow, an opinion piece behind a paywall. Rents are as high as the market will bear, raising taxes does not give landlord room to raise rents. Conversely, raising taxes or not, if landlord thought they could raise rent, they would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one thing FCPS DOES NOT need is more money. They have heaps of money. They need to use the money they have more efficiently, prioritize teachers and stop spending so much on detrimental, useless technology.

A vast majority of funding goes to in school teachers and staff.

Their budget is just shy of 4 billion this year.

When is tge last time they had a full audit for waste, fraud and abuse?

Surely, with a close to 4 billion dollar budget, FCPS could find some things to shave off the top at Gatehouse.

Not all programs are successful. Deprioritize waste first.

What are these wasteful programs? The only cost for a “program” in FCPS is a teacher unless that program also entails special transportation. Do you mean foreign language classes? Advanced STEM classes? Music classes? AP classes?

(DP)

Fancy techy pouches for cell phones

Whatever program that “spend thousands for a zoom lecture on racism” falls under

Laptops for elementary students

[jvmorgan]

Anonymous wrote:
Wow, an opinion piece behind a paywall. Rents are as high as the market will bear, raising taxes does not give landlord room to raise rents. Conversely, raising taxes or not, if landlord thought they could raise rent, they would.

Really shouldn’t be all that hard to access, even without a subscription to the Washington Post. I pulled up an incognito tab, preventing The Washington Post from seeing that I am a subscriber, and was able to see the short opinion piece with no problem.

[Anonymous]

jvmorgan wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“A meals tax would save Fairfax County residents money compared with raising the same revenues through real estate taxes, thanks largely to the fact that 30% of meals tax revenues would be expected to come from visitors to Fairfax County.”

LOL, give it up.

As an engaged citizen of Fairfax County who wants to see its government adopt smart policies, I am happy to engage in public discussion on matters such as a meals tax where I have something useful to contribute. I am sure that opponents of a meals tax, who really don’t have a good argument against raising revenues in a manner that costs Fairfax County residents less than it would cost them to raise the same revenues through real estate taxes, would be happy for me to shut up with all the facts and logic. But I don’t want to disengage simply because some people, perhaps driven by ideology rather than by any sort of objective analysis, don’t want to hear why a meals tax in Fairfax County makes a lot sense. I am proud to show my support for improving our local government tax base through diversification of revenues which would increase the expected growth in the tax base (food away from home expenditures in Northern Virginia grow about a percentage point higher than real estate assessments), would increase the expected stability of tax revenues (growth in food away from home expenditures in Northern Virginia are poorly correlated with growth in real estate assessments), and that would cost Fairfax County residents less (about 50% for lower-income households and about 25% for higher-income households) than real estate taxes in order to raise equivalent revenues.

Taxes are the price we pay for civilization, and I am happy to help improve how we raise tax revenues. Frankly, I don’t know any good reasons why any supervisor would vote against raising at least some revenues through a meals tax. The only reason I can think of is that it might be good politics to oppose a meals tax, thus placating those who oppose a meals tax, even if it might cost them more because visitors to Fairfax County aren’t contributing 30% to a stream of tax revenue like they would through a meals tax. Then again, good politics does not always correlate with good leadership.

You can't think of anygood reasons why someone would vote against a tax? Perhaps you should think harder.

Also, since you are in favor of higher taxes for schools, have you donated money to FCPS? Why wait for a new tax policy? You should be sending all your extra money to FCPS now.

I'm sure they'll spend it wisely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jvmorgan wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“A meals tax would save Fairfax County residents money compared with raising the same revenues through real estate taxes, thanks largely to the fact that 30% of meals tax revenues would be expected to come from visitors to Fairfax County.”

LOL, give it up.

As an engaged citizen of Fairfax County who wants to see its government adopt smart policies, I am happy to engage in public discussion on matters such as a meals tax where I have something useful to contribute. I am sure that opponents of a meals tax, who really don’t have a good argument against raising revenues in a manner that costs Fairfax County residents less than it would cost them to raise the same revenues through real estate taxes, would be happy for me to shut up with all the facts and logic. But I don’t want to disengage simply because some people, perhaps driven by ideology rather than by any sort of objective analysis, don’t want to hear why a meals tax in Fairfax County makes a lot sense. I am proud to show my support for improving our local government tax base through diversification of revenues which would increase the expected growth in the tax base (food away from home expenditures in Northern Virginia grow about a percentage point higher than real estate assessments), would increase the expected stability of tax revenues (growth in food away from home expenditures in Northern Virginia are poorly correlated with growth in real estate assessments), and that would cost Fairfax County residents less (about 50% for lower-income households and about 25% for higher-income households) than real estate taxes in order to raise equivalent revenues.

Taxes are the price we pay for civilization, and I am happy to help improve how we raise tax revenues. Frankly, I don’t know any good reasons why any supervisor would vote against raising at least some revenues through a meals tax. The only reason I can think of is that it might be good politics to oppose a meals tax, thus placating those who oppose a meals tax, even if it might cost them more because visitors to Fairfax County aren’t contributing 30% to a stream of tax revenue like they would through a meals tax. Then again, good politics does not always correlate with good leadership.

You can't think of anygood reasons why someone would vote against a tax? Perhaps you should think harder.

Also, since you are in favor of higher taxes for schools, have you donated money to FCPS? Why wait for a new tax policy? You should be sending all your extra money to FCPS now.

I'm sure they'll spend it wisely.

+1

Nothing is stopping them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jvmorgan wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“A meals tax would save Fairfax County residents money compared with raising the same revenues through real estate taxes, thanks largely to the fact that 30% of meals tax revenues would be expected to come from visitors to Fairfax County.”

LOL, give it up.

As an engaged citizen of Fairfax County who wants to see its government adopt smart policies, I am happy to engage in public discussion on matters such as a meals tax where I have something useful to contribute. I am sure that opponents of a meals tax, who really don’t have a good argument against raising revenues in a manner that costs Fairfax County residents less than it would cost them to raise the same revenues through real estate taxes, would be happy for me to shut up with all the facts and logic. But I don’t want to disengage simply because some people, perhaps driven by ideology rather than by any sort of objective analysis, don’t want to hear why a meals tax in Fairfax County makes a lot sense. I am proud to show my support for improving our local government tax base through diversification of revenues which would increase the expected growth in the tax base (food away from home expenditures in Northern Virginia grow about a percentage point higher than real estate assessments), would increase the expected stability of tax revenues (growth in food away from home expenditures in Northern Virginia are poorly correlated with growth in real estate assessments), and that would cost Fairfax County residents less (about 50% for lower-income households and about 25% for higher-income households) than real estate taxes in order to raise equivalent revenues.

Taxes are the price we pay for civilization, and I am happy to help improve how we raise tax revenues. Frankly, I don’t know any good reasons why any supervisor would vote against raising at least some revenues through a meals tax. The only reason I can think of is that it might be good politics to oppose a meals tax, thus placating those who oppose a meals tax, even if it might cost them more because visitors to Fairfax County aren’t contributing 30% to a stream of tax revenue like they would through a meals tax. Then again, good politics does not always correlate with good leadership.

You can't think of anygood reasons why someone would vote against a tax? Perhaps you should think harder.

Also, since you are in favor of higher taxes for schools, have you donated money to FCPS? Why wait for a new tax policy? You should be sending all your extra money to FCPS now.

I'm sure they'll spend it wisely.

Agreed. Long winded explanation to support let’s call it what it is - increase in taxes nobody wants. It doesn’t matter how long or short - we don’t want new or increase in taxes. Manage and lead better and prioritize.

[jvmorgan]

Anonymous wrote:
You can't think of any good reasons why someone would vote against a tax? Perhaps you should think harder.

I can think of hypothetical scenarios in which I would not support diversifying the Fairfax County tax revenue base. For example, if Alexandria, Arlington, City of Fairfax, Falls Church, Herndon, Leesburg, Manassas, Manassas Park, Prince William County, and Town of Vienna started to rethink, maybe even repeal their meals taxes, then I would question the wisdom of adopting a meals tax. Also, if I had seen poor growth rates in meals away from home expenditures when looking at jurisdictions in Northern Virginia, I’d be more worried about possible harmful industry effects from a meals tax. But I haven’t seen any neighboring jurisdictions consider rolling back their meals taxes. I’m not even aware of any lobbying efforts to change our neighbors’ meals tax status quos. And the growth rate in meals away from home expenditures turns out to be about a percentage higher than the growth rate in real estate assessments, despite the theoretical consequences of a meals tax. So no, I haven’t seen good evidence, a good reason, for opposing a Fairfax County meals tax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the lottery money was supposed to be for schools. what happened to that?

don't forget everyone's favorite-the car tax.

Still not enough?

Meal tax and then what? Hiking the meal tax? No. We are not voting for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ffxnow.com/2024/08/01/fairfax-county-school-boards-new-budget-chair-suggests-change-in-approach-to-funding-challenges/

Just saw this and had to laugh. They must be smoking something if they think they’re going to have the public on their side for the meals tax or increased budget after detrimentally pressing reset on the boundaries.

If anything, the FCPS SB is doing everything that it can to get vouchers in Virginia.

Ppl asking for more taxes won’t understand those who don’t have anymore to give. This is sad.

[jvmorgan]

Anonymous wrote:Rents are as high as the market will bear, raising taxes does not give landlord room to raise rents. Conversely, raising taxes or not, if landlord thought they could raise rent, they would.

When real estate taxes go up, increasing the cost of renting out properties, the supply curve will tend to be pushed up and to the left, which will mean that unless there is some change to the demand curve, prices will be pushed upwards. This is supported empirically (https://www.k-state.edu/economics/about/staff/websites/turner/tsoodleturner.pdf). I am unaware of there being any shock to the demand curve for residential rental properties in Fairfax County that would give renters market power to force landlords to eat real estate tax increases. Commercial renters might have more bargaining power, although I believe at least some, if not most, commercial leases already have an explicit provision for passing real estate taxes through to the renter.

Getting off-topic from the meals tax, but I think the best way to give renters more bargaining power and to help push down rental costs is to just make it easier to create more living units, whether through building new properties or making it easier to create units in existing units. I even spoke out in support of efforts by the Board of Supervisors to loosen zoning restrictions (including on accessory living units). https://youtu.be/-bzJB1KJ7WY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jvmorgan wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“A meals tax would save Fairfax County residents money compared with raising the same revenues through real estate taxes, thanks largely to the fact that 30% of meals tax revenues would be expected to come from visitors to Fairfax County.”

LOL, give it up.

As an engaged citizen of Fairfax County who wants to see its government adopt smart policies, I am happy to engage in public discussion on matters such as a meals tax where I have something useful to contribute. I am sure that opponents of a meals tax, who really don’t have a good argument against raising revenues in a manner that costs Fairfax County residents less than it would cost them to raise the same revenues through real estate taxes, would be happy for me to shut up with all the facts and logic. But I don’t want to disengage simply because some people, perhaps driven by ideology rather than by any sort of objective analysis, don’t want to hear why a meals tax in Fairfax County makes a lot sense. I am proud to show my support for improving our local government tax base through diversification of revenues which would increase the expected growth in the tax base (food away from home expenditures in Northern Virginia grow about a percentage point higher than real estate assessments), would increase the expected stability of tax revenues (growth in food away from home expenditures in Northern Virginia are poorly correlated with growth in real estate assessments), and that would cost Fairfax County residents less (about 50% for lower-income households and about 25% for higher-income households) than real estate taxes in order to raise equivalent revenues.

Taxes are the price we pay for civilization, and I am happy to help improve how we raise tax revenues. Frankly, I don’t know any good reasons why any supervisor would vote against raising at least some revenues through a meals tax. The only reason I can think of is that it might be good politics to oppose a meals tax, thus placating those who oppose a meals tax, even if it might cost them more because visitors to Fairfax County aren’t contributing 30% to a stream of tax revenue like they would through a meals tax. Then again, good politics does not always correlate with good leadership.

You can't think of anygood reasons why someone would vote against a tax? Perhaps you should think harder.

Also, since you are in favor of higher taxes for schools, have you donated money to FCPS? Why wait for a new tax policy? You should be sending all your extra money to FCPS now.

I'm sure they'll spend it wisely.

Agreed. Long winded explanation to support let’s call it what it is - increase in taxes nobody wants. It doesn’t matter how long or short - we don’t want new or increase in taxes. Manage and lead better and prioritize.


[/quote


1+ Manage with the existing budget. No newbtaxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My expectation is that they will add a Meals tax and will not lower the Real Estate tax. Taxes never go down, only up.

This is why FFX home owners will vote no on a meals tax. You will continue to raise our property taxes every single year and not use the meals tax as an offset to doing that.
This will be a tax in addition to. My property taxes have increased 50% since 2015 on my little 1200 sq ft house.

No vote from homeowners is required to do a meals tax.

This. It will probably feature prominently in state wide adds if the council imposes a meals tax a few years after residents say no. Locally, it won't impact anything. State wide, it might swing elections

What council? Do you even live in Fairfax? The vote would be by the Board of Supervisors. I hope they add a meals tax. It’s ridiculous that almost all neighboring areas have a meals tax and we don’t. I eat in many of those areas and support their schools and services. I want people who eat in Fairfax to contribute to pur quality of life, too.