do you let friends stay at your second home?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And beyond the cleaning fee. There are other fees: electricity, water, gas. Paper products and other consumables need to be refreshed. Heating a pool is very expensive so what if your friends decide to turn that feature on? There is a house manager that needs to check on the home to make sure everything is stocked up and put away for the next set of renters, and locked up. It’s stressful!

People who don’t have a second home, do not know!

I do have a second home and we do let friends stay there. We don't rent it out. If I am crying over electricity, water and gas, I would not have bought a second home. Sometimes, we don't use our house for months. I knew that going in. I am not going to stress over a property. If you can't really afford a second home, don't buy one.

I'm confused. If you actually do own a second home (which I doubt) why are you so worried about what other people who own second homes are doing? Did you antagonize them in a way that they will no longer invite you, or something?

I don't expect anyone with a second home to invite me or not invite me. You seem to be pouting, and trying to dictate what you want them to do. How is that working for you? I don't know anyone with a second home who pouts over what their buddies with second homes do or don't do. Peculiar behavior for an adult, really.

Do you present people who come to dinner at your (first or second) home with a bill at the end of the meal, too?
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If they ask to come over without being invited and bring nothing to the table I might.

+1

That's the difference. When I invite people to my primary home or my second home, they are my guests. I make them comfortable, provide the food, and would certainly never ask them to pitch in. If someone asked to come to my primary home or my second home when I am not there, they no longer feel like friends or guests. They feel like someone who wants to use my stuff, but also doesn't want to be a paying customer. No matter how much money or property I have, I don't see why I would randomly share it with people who are treating me as a useful person to know after I've treated them as a friend. Real friends come for the company, not for the house. And I don't need fake friends.

Some of us like to share what we have with our friends. You don't. That's fine.

Do you also require that people stay and entertain you for an hour if they need to borrow a cup of sugar?

I'm the poster you're responding to. I haven't actually had someone ask to use my home when I'm not there -- presumably because I have lovely friends who wouldn't ask such a thing because they do want to be with me and not my house! -- but my point is simply that I would feel differently about a friend if they did ask because it makes the whole relationship seem transactional. Maybe some people are comfortable with transactional relationships but it's not my thing so I would steer clear of someone if I got that vibe. It's hard to see the connection between borrowing a cup of sugar and borrowing a house on a ski slope but, yes, it would be a little weird if someone came by and asked for sugar and didn't engage in the normal chit-chat because that is what friends do.

+1. This was a mature, dignified response (not full of expectation and inquisition).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So many people on DCUM just assume that others have bad intentions, including their close friends. That's weird to me. It's clear that OP doesn't want to let her friends stay there because she perceives that they're asking for a monetary gift (which I don't see, but whatever), and will dig her heels in farther and farther any time there is pushback. So you do you, OP. I think it will be awkward this way, but you seem prepared to deal with that.

I think the friends made it awkward.

+1 Same. You can tell who does not own a second home, by their responses. For instance, cleaning fees alone, during season are about $500. (no, I won't divulge where). This may be difficult for non-owners to grasp, especially since some people are of the "Robin Hood" mindset. It beats paying full rental price, but takers don't see it that way.

We get it. We have second homes. We just don't mind paying a few hundred dollars for our friends to use our house. You do you.

You don't get it, because it is well over a thousand dollars not a few hundred dollars (by the time you pay the professional cleaning company plus professional caretaker for their visits, etc.). It is not some podunk town, it is on the beach. So no, you don't get it.

There is no way it is over a thousand dollars. Only people that don’t have beach houses would believe you. We have a house on Martha’s Vineyard. We pay our caretaker monthly and the water and electricity is on. So that makes a cleaning fee, which is less than what I pay here. And we have enough money that the cleaning fee isn’t a big deal for us to pay for the few people that use our house. But we also don’t rent our house out because we don’t need the money and don’t want strangers in our house. So I’m guessing you need to rent your Dewy Beach/Rehoboth house just to afford it. You don’t want to say where it is, because everyone will know you are just making things up.

I'm not telling you where our beach house is, because you are obviously unstable enough to concoct an argument with an internet stranger. Stay mad.

= my house is in Dewey and I need to rent it out to even afford it

[Anonymous]

FWIW why do people like Delaware beaches? Why not Cape Cod if you must go North? Maine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW why do people like Delaware beaches? Why not Cape Cod if you must go North? Maine?

Stay on topic, please.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So many people on DCUM just assume that others have bad intentions, including their close friends. That's weird to me. It's clear that OP doesn't want to let her friends stay there because she perceives that they're asking for a monetary gift (which I don't see, but whatever), and will dig her heels in farther and farther any time there is pushback. So you do you, OP. I think it will be awkward this way, but you seem prepared to deal with that.

I think the friends made it awkward.

+1 Same. You can tell who does not own a second home, by their responses. For instance, cleaning fees alone, during season are about $500. (no, I won't divulge where). This may be difficult for non-owners to grasp, especially since some people are of the "Robin Hood" mindset. It beats paying full rental price, but takers don't see it that way.

We get it. We have second homes. We just don't mind paying a few hundred dollars for our friends to use our house. You do you.

You don't get it, because it is well over a thousand dollars not a few hundred dollars (by the time you pay the professional cleaning company plus professional caretaker for their visits, etc.). It is not some podunk town, it is on the beach. So no, you don't get it.

There is no way it is over a thousand dollars. Only people that don’t have beach houses would believe you. We have a house on Martha’s Vineyard. We pay our caretaker monthly and the water and electricity is on. So that makes a cleaning fee, which is less than what I pay here. And we have enough money that the cleaning fee isn’t a big deal for us to pay for the few people that use our house. But we also don’t rent our house out because we don’t need the money and don’t want strangers in our house. So I’m guessing you need to rent your Dewy Beach/Rehoboth house just to afford it. You don’t want to say where it is, because everyone will know you are just making things up.

I'm not telling you where our beach house is, because you are obviously unstable enough to concoct an argument with an internet stranger. Stay mad.

= my house is in Dewey and I need to rent it out to even afford it

(The last posts were different posters)

[Anonymous]

I don't have a second home. I post on anonymous boards and whine about people that don't invite me.

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting thread because like everything on DCUM -it comes down to social class and money. People that rent their second house out feel offended when asked - almost like someone is being tacky and asking for a loan (when the person asking clearly doesn’t even need it). They, rightly so, think of this in monetary terms. People with enough money to have a second home (that they don't rent out) do not think of it this way. They generally have enough money that a cleaning fee isn’t a big deal. They also tend to be friends with people that have a similar socioeconomic status. So an empty house and a cleaning fee aren’t anything between friends. While this isn’t the case for us, I think it falls into the way wealthy people operate - you stay at my ACK house and hopefully when junior needs an internship/ applies to Georgetown you will remember us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting thread because like everything on DCUM -it comes down to social class and money. People that rent their second house out feel offended when asked - almost like someone is being tacky and asking for a loan (when the person asking clearly doesn’t even need it). They, rightly so, think of this in monetary terms. People with enough money to have a second home (that they don't rent out) do not think of it this way. They generally have enough money that a cleaning fee isn’t a big deal. They also tend to be friends with people that have a similar socioeconomic status. So an empty house and a cleaning fee aren’t anything between friends. While this isn’t the case for us, I think it falls into the way wealthy people operate - you stay at my ACK house and hopefully when junior needs an internship/ applies to Georgetown you will remember us.

The wealthy people I know stay wealthy by not giving things away. I would never ask to use someone's house, but if they offered, the $1500. + cleaning/maintenance, plus property rental tax (imposed in some jurisdictions, can be quite high), in addition to whatever fees would be in their venmo before I locked the door to leave, and every last rule would be abided by, to the letter, and the place would be spotless, and look better than when I arrived, AND there would be a gift of some sort on top of it. You need the lawn mowed and some repairs while we are there? Sure! But not everyone is handy, and not everyone is grateful. You have to show that you are grateful, not that you have your hands out. People who have not grown up around wealthy people are less privy to the intricacies of those relationships - it is respect, more than favors.

I know some people who have a rental and they have the same renters every year for this reason. Plus, at least one of them brings their grandfather, a contractor, who does small jobs in addition to paying full rent. They don't have their hands out - they appreciate the rental. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no great mystery to how it works. They respect that the owner worked hard, nothing was given to them (they have gotten to know each other over the years), and that this is their home. Their home means a lot to them. The home also mean a lot to the renters, who have created years of family memories there (in the same house). The relationship, their hard work and their home deserve respect - it becomes mutual when the renters go out of their way for them, because it is not a big deal for the renters. If it is a big deal to you, don't participate. Why are you trying to make it something it is not? Do you do this often?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We have a lake home that we rent out and ppl rent it year round but not so much in the winter.
We were scheduled to go a couple weeks ago but it was really bad weather so we didn't go. We had invited our friends to go with us. They do go with us several times in the summer.
We are not in town (or the state for that matter) this weekend and our friends want to go up and stay, without us.
We feel funny about it. We haven't received any rental inquiries for this weekend so I doubt it will be rented.
But, I would never ask someone this.
Is it odd?

This is an investment property, not a second home. You need the money you make from it, so that's fine if you don't want to let friends use it for free.

BTW, OP, if you do let friends or family use this property you will need to report those days on your Federal income tax as "personal use" days. There is no such thing as a "free" lunch nor are there "freebies" when it comes to using someone else's rental property.

Great point!

I can’t understand why people want to go through the hassle of having an out of town investment property just to use it 14 days a year.

Seems like timeshares were made for these types of people.

But then again, I guess it makes you sound more superior on dcum to say you have a “second home” rather than a timeshare (which sounds trashy to the dcum striver set).

But owning an investment vacation property vs paying 100k for a timeshare doesn’t seem to be all that different.

A time share? I doubt there is one in my entire state. We use the house 60 days a year I bet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:We have a lake home that we rent out and ppl rent it year round but not so much in the winter.
We were scheduled to go a couple weeks ago but it was really bad weather so we didn't go. We had invited our friends to go with us. They do go with us several times in the summer.
We are not in town (or the state for that matter) this weekend and our friends want to go up and stay, without us.
We feel funny about it. We haven't received any rental inquiries for this weekend so I doubt it will be rented.
But, I would never ask someone this.
Is it odd?

This is an investment property, not a second home. You need the money you make from it, so that's fine if you don't want to let friends use it for free.

BTW, OP, if you do let friends or family use this property you will need to report those days on your Federal income tax as "personal use" days. There is no such thing as a "free" lunch nor are there "freebies" when it comes to using someone else's rental property.

Great point!

I can’t understand why people want to go through the hassle of having an out of town investment property just to use it 14 days a year.

Seems like timeshares were made for these types of people.

But then again, I guess it makes you sound more superior on dcum to say you have a “second home” rather than a timeshare (which sounds trashy to the dcum striver set).

But owning an investment vacation property vs paying 100k for a timeshare doesn’t seem to be all that different.

A time share? I doubt there is one in my entire state. We use the house 60 days a year I bet.

This is actually a good point. There are many areas that have a set up where everything must be reported to the HOA, and all rentals go through the HOA. So, if the owner is not at their house, but someone else is, there are huge fines for not reporting it as a rental, and for the money not being processed through the proper authorities. There is a full accounting of who is where when, and all monies must change hands a certain way. There are no freebies, because there is a % rental time and amount that has to be met.

It is astonishing how naive people are about money - especially other people's money LOL.

[Anonymous]

OP, what is it you want from people? What do you think people owe you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, what is it you want from people? What do you think people owe you?

Not OP, but really? I think OP just doesn't want "friends" to treat her as a useful source of free stuff, and is uncomfortable at being placed in an awkward position. Why do you think OP is bound to make her stuff freely available to all takers? By that logic, aren't we all essentially awful people for locking our doors at night?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting thread because like everything on DCUM -it comes down to social class and money. People that rent their second house out feel offended when asked - almost like someone is being tacky and asking for a loan (when the person asking clearly doesn’t even need it). They, rightly so, think of this in monetary terms. People with enough money to have a second home (that they don't rent out) do not think of it this way. They generally have enough money that a cleaning fee isn’t a big deal. They also tend to be friends with people that have a similar socioeconomic status. So an empty house and a cleaning fee aren’t anything between friends. While this isn’t the case for us, I think it falls into the way wealthy people operate - you stay at my ACK house and hopefully when junior needs an internship/ applies to Georgetown you will remember us.

I don't think it is purely a rich/poor thing but also what your relationships are like. If you are "generously" making your ACK house available to build up chits so your kid gets an internship later, you aren't being any less stingy than the person who is concerned about rent and cleaning fees. You're just playing a longer game with different currency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, what is it you want from people? What do you think people owe you?

The minute someone asks this of us, after we’ve invited them several times a year anyway, and they know we rent it, puts us in a very awkward position. If we say yes I’m gonna worry if they’ll leave it in rentable condition, if they’ll ask again and again, if they think we somehow owe them a free stay.
If we say no then what?
I’d rather not be in that position with my friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP, what is it you want from people? What do you think people owe you?

The minute someone asks this of us, after we’ve invited them several times a year anyway, and they know we rent it, puts us in a very awkward position. If we say yes I’m gonna worry if they’ll leave it in rentable condition, if they’ll ask again and again, if they think we somehow owe them a free stay.
If we say no then what?
I’d rather not be in that position with my friends.

You can tell from the responses who is truly in this position and who is not. Well said, PP, thank you. Also wondering why people are so cocky as to 1.) count other people's pennies and 2.) expect stuff from people, whether or not you are close.

It is also important that both members of the couple like you, not just one. So, if one finds you untrustworthy, or cocky or even gross (just examples, of course), you ain't getting into any of their homes unattended. Presumably, you would also want to bring other people (given the PPs) - in which case, does the owner know or like them? Or would they be there to judge what they don't have?

Some PPs want to make this about the owner, but it is clearly most about who will be in the house. Some people have their own key - some never in a million years.