Compared Against Peers - T20 Admissions

[Anonymous]

This should be moved to the private school forum. It is not about college admissions generally. It’s about how private schools handle college admissions.

[Anonymous]

IMO brokering typically happens for waitlists and deferrals.

It’s in the CCO interest to get everyone placed at a place that is appropriate for them….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by “brokering”? Is that equivalent to promoting certain students over others to AO’s?

This has me really stressed. We have been watching and hoping this isn’t true but our kid felt steered away from certain schools and now found out many kids got in one of these schools last year so not sure why steered away. We are on pins and needles that the ed works out and we can feel better about process. They are having a big mental health meeting today and hopefully kids will talk about all these rumors which maybe are not true. It would be devastating to find out school was deciding to push certain kids and not others.

I think this happens everywhere. They generally push kids towards certain schools where they know they’ll have a better shot of getting in.

And they should I believe deter kids from applying or wasting a shot where they won’t have a realistic chance give me the rest of the applicant pool.

They are able to see all of the applicants and know who is a stronger applicant…they’d also have visibility on how many spots are available…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This should be moved to the private school forum. It is not about college admissions generally. It’s about how private schools handle college admissions.

Think most relevant to everyone, no?

[Anonymous]

I am sorry but this would make sense if you kid was not a strong student. If your kid is not a strong student then of course there should be buyer beware. In any event we will know a lot more in two weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the NYC privates and boarding schools have pull with admissions but the DC privates have very little with the top universities.

For our Big3 school the "line in the sand" for Duke is about a 3.9. I know several kids with a 3.8, legacy parents who were TOP donors at the high school who did not get into Duke over the past 2 years.
It's not something the high school can push through.

There are different lines in the sand because top universities recalculate GPA. This means a 3.9 isn’t really a 3.9 if there is not advanced classes. This is becoming a huge issue for top students who took hard classes and didn’t realize they were better situated and for those with 4.0 who really were not looked at favorable to colleges as they didn’t have enough advanced classes. It may be better to have to pay for private counselor to understand all this stuff. It is complicated.

At my kids' school most of the top kids have taken difficult classes. Maybe not to a person but there is a strong correlation between top GPAs and top classes.
These schools (the Big3) are almost 3 schools in one: the superstars, the hard worker/strong students who aren't superstars and the laggers/slackers.
The superstars who have GPAs above 3.85 or so (many above 3.9) generally take hard classes. The same thing that motivates a kid to do well all the hard general classes motivates them to take challenging electives.
Again, not to a person but in general.

I've seen all the admissions data for our school and the acceptances really mirror GPA and unfortunately, most of the top 20 universities don't take kids below a 3.80 or even 3.9 (and some of us didn't even know there was a cohort of kids at our school that had grades that high...lol). But they exist and they do well with admissions. Legacy will get a dip down maybe 0.1 or 0.2 from the non-legacy kids. But it's nothing like Duke taking a 3.5 instead of a 3.9.

But in this example, Duke might take a 3.7 or 3.75…..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the NYC privates and boarding schools have pull with admissions but the DC privates have very little with the top universities.

For our Big3 school the "line in the sand" for Duke is about a 3.9. I know several kids with a 3.8, legacy parents who were TOP donors at the high school who did not get into Duke over the past 2 years.
It's not something the high school can push through.

There are different lines in the sand because top universities recalculate GPA. This means a 3.9 isn’t really a 3.9 if there is not advanced classes. This is becoming a huge issue for top students who took hard classes and didn’t realize they were better situated and for those with 4.0 who really were not looked at favorable to colleges as they didn’t have enough advanced classes. It may be better to have to pay for private counselor to understand all this stuff. It is complicated.

At my kids' school most of the top kids have taken difficult classes. Maybe not to a person but there is a strong correlation between top GPAs and top classes.
These schools (the Big3) are almost 3 schools in one: the superstars, the hard worker/strong students who aren't superstars and the laggers/slackers.
The superstars who have GPAs above 3.85 or so (many above 3.9) generally take hard classes. The same thing that motivates a kid to do well all the hard general classes motivates them to take challenging electives.
Again, not to a person but in general.

I've seen all the admissions data for our school and the acceptances really mirror GPA and unfortunately, most of the top 20 universities don't take kids below a 3.80 or even 3.9 (and some of us didn't even know there was a cohort of kids at our school that had grades that high...lol). But they exist and they do well with admissions. Legacy will get a dip down maybe 0.1 or 0.2 from the non-legacy kids. But it's nothing like Duke taking a 3.5 instead of a 3.9.

Many above a 3.9? Aren’t you the same crowd whining about grade deflation in private schools? Looks pretty inflated to me.

Above 3.9 translates roughly into top 10 percent kids at Big 3 Privates.

yes, it depends on the school and the year. Top 10% is usually above a 3.9. Sometimes as low as a 3.85, sometimes as high as a 3.95. Grades have a been a bit inflated for seniors over the past 3 years due to the Covid (remote) grading. The first class back to all routine grading is the class of 2025 (current juniors).

Oh there you are again the crazy Big 3 mom obsessing over other kid’s grades. The schools don’t share this info… you are just cobbling it together. Just stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by “brokering”? Is that equivalent to promoting certain students over others to AO’s?

This has me really stressed. We have been watching and hoping this isn’t true but our kid felt steered away from certain schools and now found out many kids got in one of these schools last year so not sure why steered away. We are on pins and needles that the ed works out and we can feel better about process. They are having a big mental health meeting today and hopefully kids will talk about all these rumors which maybe are not true. It would be devastating to find out school was deciding to push certain kids and not others.

We are members of the same school community. Other than the list from College Kickstart, we’ve had no other communication with the CCO. They made no comment on our child’s ED1 decision, and we would have appreciated some feedback about it (mainly how many others were applying to same school and our child’s level of competitiveness). Based on the SCOIR data, kids with similar profiles have gotten into this school in the past but it sure would have been nice to have the input and encouragement/discouragement from CCO. If they are discouraging your kid, that likely means many others with stronger stats and profiles are applying too.

This is where the CCO can and should add value in my opinion and they aren’t. Particularly with regard to ED choices it would be nice to have some real-time guidance. Other schools provide such assistance and I don’t know why this school cannot do the same. It seems like many kids in this class are shooting for the moon in ED without having the required grades, rigor or test scores at a baseline and I’m surprised nothing has been said by CCO’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the NYC privates and boarding schools have pull with admissions but the DC privates have very little with the top universities.

For our Big3 school the "line in the sand" for Duke is about a 3.9. I know several kids with a 3.8, legacy parents who were TOP donors at the high school who did not get into Duke over the past 2 years.
It's not something the high school can push through.

There are different lines in the sand because top universities recalculate GPA. This means a 3.9 isn’t really a 3.9 if there is not advanced classes. This is becoming a huge issue for top students who took hard classes and didn’t realize they were better situated and for those with 4.0 who really were not looked at favorable to colleges as they didn’t have enough advanced classes. It may be better to have to pay for private counselor to understand all this stuff. It is complicated.

At my kids' school most of the top kids have taken difficult classes. Maybe not to a person but there is a strong correlation between top GPAs and top classes.
These schools (the Big3) are almost 3 schools in one: the superstars, the hard worker/strong students who aren't superstars and the laggers/slackers.
The superstars who have GPAs above 3.85 or so (many above 3.9) generally take hard classes. The same thing that motivates a kid to do well all the hard general classes motivates them to take challenging electives.
Again, not to a person but in general.

I've seen all the admissions data for our school and the acceptances really mirror GPA and unfortunately, most of the top 20 universities don't take kids below a 3.80 or even 3.9 (and some of us didn't even know there was a cohort of kids at our school that had grades that high...lol). But they exist and they do well with admissions. Legacy will get a dip down maybe 0.1 or 0.2 from the non-legacy kids. But it's nothing like Duke taking a 3.5 instead of a 3.9.

But in this example, Duke might take a 3.7 or 3.75…..

No. At our Big3 Duke did not admit below a 3.95 during the past 3 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the NYC privates and boarding schools have pull with admissions but the DC privates have very little with the top universities.

For our Big3 school the "line in the sand" for Duke is about a 3.9. I know several kids with a 3.8, legacy parents who were TOP donors at the high school who did not get into Duke over the past 2 years.
It's not something the high school can push through.

There are different lines in the sand because top universities recalculate GPA. This means a 3.9 isn’t really a 3.9 if there is not advanced classes. This is becoming a huge issue for top students who took hard classes and didn’t realize they were better situated and for those with 4.0 who really were not looked at favorable to colleges as they didn’t have enough advanced classes. It may be better to have to pay for private counselor to understand all this stuff. It is complicated.

At my kids' school most of the top kids have taken difficult classes. Maybe not to a person but there is a strong correlation between top GPAs and top classes.
These schools (the Big3) are almost 3 schools in one: the superstars, the hard worker/strong students who aren't superstars and the laggers/slackers.
The superstars who have GPAs above 3.85 or so (many above 3.9) generally take hard classes. The same thing that motivates a kid to do well all the hard general classes motivates them to take challenging electives.
Again, not to a person but in general.

I've seen all the admissions data for our school and the acceptances really mirror GPA and unfortunately, most of the top 20 universities don't take kids below a 3.80 or even 3.9 (and some of us didn't even know there was a cohort of kids at our school that had grades that high...lol). But they exist and they do well with admissions. Legacy will get a dip down maybe 0.1 or 0.2 from the non-legacy kids. But it's nothing like Duke taking a 3.5 instead of a 3.9.

Many above a 3.9? Aren’t you the same crowd whining about grade deflation in private schools? Looks pretty inflated to me.

Above 3.9 translates roughly into top 10 percent kids at Big 3 Privates.

yes, it depends on the school and the year. Top 10% is usually above a 3.9. Sometimes as low as a 3.85, sometimes as high as a 3.95. Grades have a been a bit inflated for seniors over the past 3 years due to the Covid (remote) grading. The first class back to all routine grading is the class of 2025 (current juniors).

Oh there you are again the crazy Big 3 mom obsessing over other kid’s grades. The schools don’t share this info… you are just cobbling it together. Just stop.

no--they have the top 20% society and every year it's easy to figure out what the GPA cut-off is if you have a senior and your kids knows seniors, etc. Last year it was about 3.91.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a great thread - in a few months parents will be freaking because their 1500 plus 4.5 student (or whatever) is shut out of the top 20. Having been through this process a few times at both public and private high schools, it is clear that class rank is the number one indicator of admission all other things being about equal - it's not guaranteed of course, and does not apply for URM or Athletic admissions - but lots of high stats kids are in the top 10 percent of the class, but well below the top 10 candidates in the ranking. You need to have a good grasp of your rank AND your competition to choose ED and RD wisely.

Totally agree which is why the endless threads focusing only on gpa and test scores miss the mark.

[Anonymous]

Without getting into detail. My child should not have been discouraged and we can leave it at that. We too looked at SCOIR. There is also no communication about how these school discussions will go. I am not sure how the school will handle conversations about rigor. I am not sure about anything. We are hoping everything works out but so many rumors. My kid is hoping it all works out and that is what we are going with currently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am confused as to why this is more of an issue at private schools. At public schools, dozens of kids apply to the same competitive schools and the chips fall where they may. There isn’t the same level of ownership over the process. Everyone knows they have zero control and they have a “might as well try” attitude.

It isn’t, public school kids are also competing against their class mates. This is where the inflated grades are often exposed, because kids can have super impressive sounding grades and not be in top 5 percent of class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IMO brokering typically happens for waitlists and deferrals.

It’s in the CCO interest to get everyone placed at a place that is appropriate for them….

I think the brokering also largely happens in the counselor letter parents aren’t allowed to see. To quote Bill Clinton, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is is”. Counselors can nuance their verbiage in their letters to come across as strong or neutral as they want about a student and that will strongly influence admission. You can only hope they are fair and objective and not just pro big donors and other VIP’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Without getting into detail. My child should not have been discouraged and we can leave it at that. We too looked at SCOIR. There is also no communication about how these school discussions will go. I am not sure how the school will handle conversations about rigor. I am not sure about anything. We are hoping everything works out but so many rumors. My kid is hoping it all works out and that is what we are going with currently.

I am just curious what “rumors” you are hearing-my kid keeps a low profile and doesn’t discuss this at school so I’m not sure what the overall vibe is right now.

SCOIR is helpful to a certain extent-but it doesn’t give any info on rigor, legacy, athletic recruit, minority status etc so very difficult to chance yourself based on this alone. Some say their schools remove all the “hooked” students too from SCOIR and I don’t know if our school does that. So many things they could have explained to parents and failed to do so!