MCPS Community COVID update

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have hoped that by now we would mention air ventilation, air filtration and masking as things that would actually help reduce transmission in the classrooms. Covid is Airborne, we fight it by concentrating on keeping it out of the air, diluting it, or removing it from the air.

If you want your kid to have more time in the classroom, think about masking at least some of the time during this uptick in cases, so it doesn't increase to a full surge.

Ask your schools to make sure their ventilation is bringing in fresh air. The CDC recommends 5 air changes an hour. Fans and open windows help. Air filters help when bringing in more fresh air is impossible.

We know the tools to keep kids healthy and in the classroom. We just need to use them

So open the windows and let the 100 degree air into the classroom?

.

Yes. Rooms are still air conditioned and windows only have to be opened a crack to improve ventilation.

You should review thermodynamics again.

If you're relying on opened windows to give you six air changes per hour, the AC certainly isn't going to be able to keep up during 90F+ days.

Just relying on better air exchange alone isn't going to help given the studies about how far airborne viruses can go. You need multiple levels of mitigation from air quality to masking to distancing, just as a start. For colds and flu, MCPS needs to do daily cleanings, especially in MS and HS where kids go between 7-8 classes a day and lunch plus extra activities.

Its stilly to argue about better ventilation when its not going to do anything when kids are sitting very close and the halls are jammed packed.

And that is when improved ventilation can have the biggest impact. Amazing isn’t it?

What on earth are you talking about? They cannot improve ventilation enough to stop covid given there is no social distancing, no masking and people send in their kids sick as they are too selfish to stay home and care for them. Please show us the studies where improved ventilation alone will stop covid. I have googled and cannot find any.

Too bad your google is broken.
Yes, improving ventilation stops covid transmission. Mcps knows this that is why they have spent millions to monitor indoor air. They just aren’t going to tell you what their data shows because Mcknight is not a fan of open communication.

Sounds like you should write a FOIA request. Until then, you look like a troll.

FOIA? Guess you are the troll. Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) provides the public the right to request access to records from any federal agency.

MCPS is not a federal agency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have hoped that by now we would mention air ventilation, air filtration and masking as things that would actually help reduce transmission in the classrooms. Covid is Airborne, we fight it by concentrating on keeping it out of the air, diluting it, or removing it from the air.

If you want your kid to have more time in the classroom, think about masking at least some of the time during this uptick in cases, so it doesn't increase to a full surge.

Ask your schools to make sure their ventilation is bringing in fresh air. The CDC recommends 5 air changes an hour. Fans and open windows help. Air filters help when bringing in more fresh air is impossible.

We know the tools to keep kids healthy and in the classroom. We just need to use them

So open the windows and let the 100 degree air into the classroom?

.

Yes. Rooms are still air conditioned and windows only have to be opened a crack to improve ventilation.

You should review thermodynamics again.

If you're relying on opened windows to give you six air changes per hour, the AC certainly isn't going to be able to keep up during 90F+ days.

Just relying on better air exchange alone isn't going to help given the studies about how far airborne viruses can go. You need multiple levels of mitigation from air quality to masking to distancing, just as a start. For colds and flu, MCPS needs to do daily cleanings, especially in MS and HS where kids go between 7-8 classes a day and lunch plus extra activities.

Its stilly to argue about better ventilation when its not going to do anything when kids are sitting very close and the halls are jammed packed.

And that is when improved ventilation can have the biggest impact. Amazing isn’t it?

What on earth are you talking about? They cannot improve ventilation enough to stop covid given there is no social distancing, no masking and people send in their kids sick as they are too selfish to stay home and care for them. Please show us the studies where improved ventilation alone will stop covid. I have googled and cannot find any.

Too bad your google is broken.
Yes, improving ventilation stops covid transmission. Mcps knows this that is why they have spent millions to monitor indoor air. They just aren’t going to tell you what their data shows because Mcknight is not a fan of open communication.

Sounds like you should write a FOIA request. Until then, you look like a troll.

FOIA? Guess you are the troll. Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) provides the public the right to request access to records from any federal agency.

MCPS is not a federal agency.

You’re being pedantic. It’s common to use FOIA as a general term for a public records request.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

The paid RW astroturfers with their antivax misinformation are always out in force here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have hoped that by now we would mention air ventilation, air filtration and masking as things that would actually help reduce transmission in the classrooms. Covid is Airborne, we fight it by concentrating on keeping it out of the air, diluting it, or removing it from the air.

If you want your kid to have more time in the classroom, think about masking at least some of the time during this uptick in cases, so it doesn't increase to a full surge.

Ask your schools to make sure their ventilation is bringing in fresh air. The CDC recommends 5 air changes an hour. Fans and open windows help. Air filters help when bringing in more fresh air is impossible.

We know the tools to keep kids healthy and in the classroom. We just need to use them

So open the windows and let the 100 degree air into the classroom?

.

Yes. Rooms are still air conditioned and windows only have to be opened a crack to improve ventilation.

You should review thermodynamics again.

If you're relying on opened windows to give you six air changes per hour, the AC certainly isn't going to be able to keep up during 90F+ days.

Just relying on better air exchange alone isn't going to help given the studies about how far airborne viruses can go. You need multiple levels of mitigation from air quality to masking to distancing, just as a start. For colds and flu, MCPS needs to do daily cleanings, especially in MS and HS where kids go between 7-8 classes a day and lunch plus extra activities.

Its stilly to argue about better ventilation when its not going to do anything when kids are sitting very close and the halls are jammed packed.

And that is when improved ventilation can have the biggest impact. Amazing isn’t it?

What on earth are you talking about? They cannot improve ventilation enough to stop covid given there is no social distancing, no masking and people send in their kids sick as they are too selfish to stay home and care for them. Please show us the studies where improved ventilation alone will stop covid. I have googled and cannot find any.

Too bad your google is broken.
Yes, improving ventilation stops covid transmission. Mcps knows this that is why they have spent millions to monitor indoor air. They just aren’t going to tell you what their data shows because Mcknight is not a fan of open communication.

Sounds like you should write a FOIA request. Until then, you look like a troll.

FOIA? Guess you are the troll. Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) provides the public the right to request access to records from any federal agency.

MCPS is not a federal agency.

That's right. If you want to sue MCPS, pursue an MPIA.

I also need to correct the person who made the statement:
"What on earth are you talking about? They cannot improve ventilation enough to stop covid given there is no social distancing, no masking and people send in their kids sick as they are too selfish to stay home and care for them. Please show us the studies where improved ventilation alone will stop covid. I have googled and cannot find any."

DP. Improved ventilation alone will not stop covid. Ex.
"While HEPA filters can significantly reduce the viral load in room air, this does not lead to reduced COVID-19 prevalence in the selected kindergartens in Germany. It is known that contagion mainly occurs via direct face-to-face air exchange during play and that the contaminated air does not necessarily pass through the filter prior to air exchange between children. "
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/13/7/e072284

Viruses work on physics and the keyword here is "viral load". The higher the concentration of virus in the air, the more the body's natural immune system has to fight, and the less time it has to generate white blood cells before the viral load (replication rate) overwhelms the immune system's ability to keep up. Both N95 masking and air filtration at high MERV levels helps reduce, not eliminate, exposure and reduces your body's viral load accumulation. The trick is to reduce the amount of exposure long enough for your own body to detect the covid virus on it's own, then generate enough white blood cells to eliminate a serious infection / buildup of the virus.

"The layout and design of a building, as well as occupancy and type of heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC) system, can all impact potential airborne spread of the virus."
https://www.epa.gov/coronavirus/indoor-air-and-coronavirus-covid-19

"This cohort study suggests that having incident SARS-CoV-2 G614 infection was associated with a rapid viral load peak followed by slower decay. COVID-19 symptom onset generally coincided with peak viral load, which correlated positively with symptom severity."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2787768

"Slight reduction in SARS-CoV-2 exposure viral load due to masking results in a significant reduction in transmission with widespread implementation."
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-91338-5#:~:text=Slight%20reduction%20in%20SARS%2DCoV,Scientific%20Reports

Although there was one study (that was a bit hokey) disputing these generalizations, the majority of the evidence is consistent. Ex.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8926507/
https://www.vcuhealth.org/news/covid-19/breakthrough-infections-viral-load-what-does-this-mean-to-you
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00822-w
https://sites.manchester.ac.uk/covid19-national-project/2023/01/09/how-we-know-that-hepa-filter-based-air-cleaners-are-likely-to-be-beneficial-for-reducing-transmission-of-respiratory-infections/

However wearing an ineffective mask (e.g. not sealed over the mouth and nose, less than N95 level, etc.), which I've seen a number of teachers and students do, is an ineffective protection measure. Most importantly, anyone coughing must wear a mask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

DP.
From a purely technical perspective:
Pre-infection proactive measures that limit transmission / re-transmission, include masking or air purification
Pre-infection proactive measures that reduce post-infection duration and increase immunity to fight infections, include vaccination.
Reactive, post-infection measures, include being treated with anti-viral drugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

If this is limited transmission, what would unlimited transmission look like?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

The paid RW astroturfers with their antivax misinformation are always out in force here.

94% in Montgomery county have had two shots. It it stopped transmission why are so many vaccinated getting it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

The paid RW astroturfers with their antivax misinformation are always out in force here.

94% in Montgomery county have had two shots. It it stopped transmission why are so many vaccinated getting it?

Is this a good example of Whataboutery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

The paid RW astroturfers with their antivax misinformation are always out in force here.

94% in Montgomery county have had two shots. It it stopped transmission why are so many vaccinated getting it?

Is this a good example of Whataboutery?

In this case it’s pretty valid. It’s clear you’re not going to stop transmission. Significantly reducing transmission requires extraordinary measures that cannot be maintained. As we’ve always done with other common endemic diseases, we just need to accept that being part of civilization means we’ll get covid every year so, knowing that acquired immunity provides strong protection against severe illness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

The paid RW astroturfers with their antivax misinformation are always out in force here.

94% in Montgomery county have had two shots. It it stopped transmission why are so many vaccinated getting it?

Is this a good example of Whataboutery?

In this case it’s pretty valid. It’s clear you’re not going to stop transmission. Significantly reducing transmission requires extraordinary measures that cannot be maintained. As we’ve always done with other common endemic diseases, we just need to accept that being part of civilization means we’ll get covid every year so, knowing that acquired immunity provides strong protection against severe illness.

Measles, for example. Polio. Chickenpox. RSV. Diphtheria. Whooping cough. Mumps. Smallpox! We just need to accept that being part of civilization means we'll get sick a lot from infectious diseases we could prevent getting sick from, if we wanted to, but apparently we don't want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

The paid RW astroturfers with their antivax misinformation are always out in force here.

94% in Montgomery county have had two shots. It it stopped transmission why are so many vaccinated getting it?

Is this a good example of Whataboutery?

In this case it’s pretty valid. It’s clear you’re not going to stop transmission. Significantly reducing transmission requires extraordinary measures that cannot be maintained. As we’ve always done with other common endemic diseases, we just need to accept that being part of civilization means we’ll get covid every year so, knowing that acquired immunity provides strong protection against severe illness.

Measles, for example. Polio. Chickenpox. RSV. Diphtheria. Whooping cough. Mumps. Smallpox! We just need to accept that being part of civilization means we'll get sick a lot from infectious diseases we could prevent getting sick from, if we wanted to, but apparently we don't want to.

Right. When those were endemic, did society go to employ disruptive, universal mitigations in an empty to minimize their spread? Or did we largely treat them as acceptable risks until vaccines offering durable immunity came along?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

The paid RW astroturfers with their antivax misinformation are always out in force here.

94% in Montgomery county have had two shots. It it stopped transmission why are so many vaccinated getting it?

Is this a good example of Whataboutery?

In this case it’s pretty valid. It’s clear you’re not going to stop transmission. Significantly reducing transmission requires extraordinary measures that cannot be maintained. As we’ve always done with other common endemic diseases, we just need to accept that being part of civilization means we’ll get covid every year so, knowing that acquired immunity provides strong protection against severe illness.

Measles, for example. Polio. Chickenpox. RSV. Diphtheria. Whooping cough. Mumps. Smallpox! We just need to accept that being part of civilization means we'll get sick a lot from infectious diseases we could prevent getting sick from, if we wanted to, but apparently we don't want to.

Right. When those were endemic, did society go to employ disruptive, universal mitigations in an empty to minimize their spread? Or did we largely treat them as acceptable risks until vaccines offering durable immunity came along?

Have you heard about polio?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

To be fair, I think some of this can be blamed on how the vaccines were initially marketed. The companies were touting the effectiveness at preventing illness altogether. There wasn't a great discussion, aimed at laypeople anyway, about how virus mutations would change the effectiveness of illness prevention. If it had been marketed more akin to a flu vaccine, maybe there would have been less backlash. The expectations were just too high.

And mandates? Lectures from the president about how you are risking the lives of those around you, etc. No controlled studies and no serious tracking of adverse reactions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless my kid is exhibiting symptoms, my kid going to school. At this point, it's no worse than the flu, and we should treat it as such.

It is no worse than influenza except for when it is worse than influenza.

For the vast vast majority of people, it is not worse than the flu.

If you didn't quarantine for 5 days after being exposed to the flu but had no symptoms, then you don't need to with covid.

Every year, some people die from complications from the flu, yet we didn't force kids to quarantine for just being exposed.

I get that we needed to quarantine when covid first hit because we didn't know enough about the virus, and also we did not have a vax, but we do now, and it's no worse than the flu.

Except for the people for whom it is worse than influenza.

C’mon. You know we’re talking about the vast vast majority of people. Why do you keep saying that?

I guess you don’t drive either. Because driving is relatively safe - most people don’t die in an accident. I know I know - except for the people who have died in a car accident

Do you use seatbelts? Airbags? Drive the speed limit? Obey traffic lights? Use car seats? Layered mitigation does wonders. We are g doing the same for covid

Part of layered mitigation, for covid, is staying home when you're sick, to reduce the possibilities of infecting other people with an infectious disease. Masks are another part of layered mitigation, especially in health care settings.

High-quality masks are used as personal protective equipment to protect staff from acquiring illnesses from patients known to have highly infectious diseases.

There wasn’t universal masking in health care settings before covid, and there isn’t now. If you’re worried, wear a mask to protect yourself— just like doctors and nurses who did so while directly treating unmasked patients with covid.

There's a lot more now, and it really ought to be standard, just like gloves are standard in health care settings. As you know, masks are more effective when everyone is wearing a mask.

Gloves aren’t standard in every health care setting or interaction. And there certainly isn't universal "gloving" for providers and patients. Like masks, gloves are primarily personal protective equipment to protect health care workers from acquiring infections from bodily fluids.

Are masks more effective at preventing transmissions when everyone wears them? Intuitively you would expect so, but there really isn't good data demonstrating a practical effect at reducing transmissions in real-world settings. Even if we assume there is a benefit, we very regularly make choices that are less than the best available protection. Did you install a five-point harness in your car for yourself, or do you continue to use a three-point seat belt?

I'm really, really tired of the argument that we should accept easily-mitigable risks in health care, on grounds that we accept uniquely (compared to other wealthy countries) high risks in driving.

At the basis of all of these arguments against masks, in limited settings, to prevent transmission of communicable things, is: "I don't wanna wear a mask." Which, ok, you don't wanna wear a mask. So say so. Don't dress it up. We know that masks would work, if people would wear them.

no we do not know that masks would work in a classroom of kindergarteners. nobody is going to put 5 year olds in fit-tested n95s that stay on 100% of the day. and we also know that covering up kindergarteners and their teacher’s faces has repercussions on learning and socializing. and we also know that covid is low risk now. ignoring all this and insisting that “masks work!!!” is idiotic.

A teacher masking in a classroom is just fine. Covid is not low risk for many. It may be low risk for you, but not for the rest of us.

It is a fact that the population that is at risk of severe consequences is in fact the minority, and not the majority. You cut into your credibility and message when you pretend otherwise.

Despite being in the numerical minority, I think my life is important enough that other people should GAF. Same goes for the life of the teacher.

Sorry, but you don’t make policies based on the numerical minority. Public health doesn’t work that way.

LOL hey how many people ever got polio? You might want to check those numbers.

The vaccine was developed so no one would get polio. It wasn’t developed to protect a few who were most vulnerable. That’s the whole point of vaccines.

Neither were the covid vaccines. We just got lucky with the polio vaccines. Vaccines that are effective at reducing severity of illness are still vaccines.

Lucky? Polio was around a long time before a successful vaccine was developed. The polio virus is also a different type of virus than the one that causes covid.

Agreed, we also got lucky with the covid vaccines, and it's ironic (and depressing) that so many vaccinated people are all ho-hum about them. To say nothing about the vaccine deniers.

You need to stop hiding behind these vaccines. They are not stopping transmission and the only way to stop this is with a better vaccine or behavior.

Yes actually vaccines limit transmission. You are spreading misinformation.

The paid RW astroturfers with their antivax misinformation are always out in force here.

94% in Montgomery county have had two shots. It it stopped transmission why are so many vaccinated getting it?

Is this a good example of Whataboutery?

In this case it’s pretty valid. It’s clear you’re not going to stop transmission. Significantly reducing transmission requires extraordinary measures that cannot be maintained. As we’ve always done with other common endemic diseases, we just need to accept that being part of civilization means we’ll get covid every year so, knowing that acquired immunity provides strong protection against severe illness.

Measles, for example. Polio. Chickenpox. RSV. Diphtheria. Whooping cough. Mumps. Smallpox! We just need to accept that being part of civilization means we'll get sick a lot from infectious diseases we could prevent getting sick from, if we wanted to, but apparently we don't want to.

Right. When those were endemic, did society go to employ disruptive, universal mitigations in an empty to minimize their spread? Or did we largely treat them as acceptable risks until vaccines offering durable immunity came along?

Have you heard about polio?

Exactly. That’s a good example of what I was talking about. What did we do before the polio vaccine when it was spreading at endemic levels?