University of Alabama - “ peak neo-antebellum white Southern culture” - NYT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We'd all share Cottom's outrage if she provided any evidence that this tiny number of teenagers are a lynchpin of white southern power in a way that isn't available to black teenagers. But Cottom doesn't even try to provide evidence of discrimination in the rush process. She also doesn't try to link these few hundred wannabe housewives (or are they part of the power machine, she can't seem to decide) to a controlling interest in southern society. Cottom only alludes darkly to white power structures and hopes we'll all agree.

Instead, Cottom focusses her anger on the fact that many of these few hundred teenagers are thin, white bottle blonds. Look, it's way past time to broaden our standards of beauty to include more colors and shapes. The bottle blond look isn't available to black women, but black sororities have their own beauty and behavior standards, make no mistake. Cottom mocking and excoriating white women for, basically, being white is another kettle of fish, and it's not camouflaged by the thin veneer of her unproven claim that these few hundred teenagers will allegedly go on to control southern white society.

She's a sigma gamma rho. You don't expect her to exercise introspection, do you?

DP. Are you serious? This woman is herself a sorority sister and has the nerve to criticize others - who are white? What an utter hypocrite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/22/opinion/bama-rush-tiktok-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Angry woman from NYT big mad that Bama girls are hot and also big mad that outsiders think the Bama girls are hot also.

“ Their Southern accents are the linguistic equivalent of pointing a ring light at their shiny hair and tasteful makeup. ”

“ that accent is seductive. It says these are ideal women from a regional culture that values traditional gender norms ”

“ these sororities’ annual viral juggernaut is counterprogramming to the Northeastern elite university brand. The Bama version is wholesome, nonthreatening, traditional femininity in Lululemon athleisure. ”

The whole article is a must read

No thoughts on the history of segregation and Greek life? On the role of the Machine? You're missing the point if you think this piece and other critiques of the system are directed at the "shiny hair and tasteful makeup."

NP: Here's my thought, as the parent of a DS who is the recruitment chair for his fraternity at an SEC university: the past is not the present. Past segregation is undeniably abhorrent. The CURRENT young men in any given fraternity in 2023 should not be assumed to be racist aholes.

My son's fraternity has a respectable representation of white, Asian (east and south) members. The representation of Hispanic members is consistent with the university as a whole (e.g, 11% :: 11%, or 18% :: 18%). There are a lot of men from the Middle East, too. But. They have great difficulty attracting Black pledges despite a lot of concerted and creative recruiting efforts. DS says he thinks they lose out to Alpha Phi Alpha.

While not excusing the past, I wish people wouldn't reflexively assume present Greek houses all hope to stay as white as the hack author imagines. To do so is dishonest.

I don't think she is saying that or blaming kids like your son. She is just pointing out the fact that by their very nature these organizations specifically the PR surrounding rush right now does uphold the white southern culture. I don't think that can be disputed. Try not to take it personally.

DP. Please tell us all about how the PR surrounding the Divine Nine upholds AA culture - which is fine. Here ya go:

Did Divine Nine ancestors own the ancestors of the Old Row Sororities and Fraternities? And did that antebellum culture perpetuate a black power structure that exists to this day? Not as far as I know. Her whole point is about power structures and how they are framed in Bama rush.

It doesn't make sense to me why people get so offended or feel they must deny what is so obvious as though it is something to take personally or as though they are threatened. It is not. You are not.

(former Tridelt here again.)

The power imbalance is, of course, the point that all of these triggered posters miss.

It reminds me of creepy guys claiming not to understand what’s wrong with catcalling women - to which the answer is easy: “Never say anything to a woman that you wouldn’t be comfortable hearing from a 350 pound man in a maximum security prison yard.”

Or translated to this case for the triggered OP: never celebrate a culture whose actions (genocide, normalized rape, and industrial scale cruelty for centuries in the case of antebellum southern culture) you wouldn’t want to be subject to.

OMG. Overreact much? Are you this concerned about all those black girls who pledge black sororities? “But the power imbalance!!” - clutches pearls -

Child: “Mom, why is there a Mother’s Day and a Father’s Day but no kids’ day!”

Exhausted mom: “Honey, every day is kids’ day.”

PP: “Why don’t critiques of people celebrating a violent genocidal past ALSO criticize the descendents of the victims? It’s not FAIR!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to pay to read it No thanks

This is dcum, the majority of people here sub to NYT

Dallas urban moms is that way ➡️

DP. Not me. I subscribe to the WSJ after ditching the WaPo.

Make sure you only read the opinion section.

LOL. Yes, the paper pilloried by journalists working in the straight news section for their bathsh-t crazy editorial section since the buyout.

DP. Anyone calling the WSJ editorial section “batshit crazy” is outing themselves as a complete LWNJ.

Nice try. Anyone arguing against that obvious assessment — agreed with by the overwhelming majority of the WSJ news staff and widely publicized in their very public criticism of the revamped editorial department after the Murdoch takeover — is a propagandist fighting a losing battle.

Also, anyone who would defend the media empire that employed and promoted noted white supremacist Tucker “White men don’t fight like that” Carlson is obviously not a serious person.

Don’t you have a MAGA rally to attend?

DP. Is that your idiotic response to anyone who disagrees with you? Very telling. One doesn’t have to be “MAGA” to think people like you are nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/22/opinion/bama-rush-tiktok-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Angry woman from NYT big mad that Bama girls are hot and also big mad that outsiders think the Bama girls are hot also.

“ Their Southern accents are the linguistic equivalent of pointing a ring light at their shiny hair and tasteful makeup. ”

“ that accent is seductive. It says these are ideal women from a regional culture that values traditional gender norms ”

“ these sororities’ annual viral juggernaut is counterprogramming to the Northeastern elite university brand. The Bama version is wholesome, nonthreatening, traditional femininity in Lululemon athleisure. ”

The whole article is a must read

No thoughts on the history of segregation and Greek life? On the role of the Machine? You're missing the point if you think this piece and other critiques of the system are directed at the "shiny hair and tasteful makeup."

NP: Here's my thought, as the parent of a DS who is the recruitment chair for his fraternity at an SEC university: the past is not the present. Past segregation is undeniably abhorrent. The CURRENT young men in any given fraternity in 2023 should not be assumed to be racist aholes.

My son's fraternity has a respectable representation of white, Asian (east and south) members. The representation of Hispanic members is consistent with the university as a whole (e.g, 11% :: 11%, or 18% :: 18%). There are a lot of men from the Middle East, too. But. They have great difficulty attracting Black pledges despite a lot of concerted and creative recruiting efforts. DS says he thinks they lose out to Alpha Phi Alpha.

While not excusing the past, I wish people wouldn't reflexively assume present Greek houses all hope to stay as white as the hack author imagines. To do so is dishonest.

I don't think she is saying that or blaming kids like your son. She is just pointing out the fact that by their very nature these organizations specifically the PR surrounding rush right now does uphold the white southern culture. I don't think that can be disputed. Try not to take it personally.

DP. Please tell us all about how the PR surrounding the Divine Nine upholds AA culture - which is fine. Here ya go:

Did Divine Nine ancestors own the ancestors of the Old Row Sororities and Fraternities? And did that antebellum culture perpetuate a black power structure that exists to this day? Not as far as I know. Her whole point is about power structures and how they are framed in Bama rush.

It doesn't make sense to me why people get so offended or feel they must deny what is so obvious as though it is something to take personally or as though they are threatened. It is not. You are not.

(former Tridelt here again.)

The power imbalance is, of course, the point that all of these triggered posters miss.

It reminds me of creepy guys claiming not to understand what’s wrong with catcalling women - to which the answer is easy: “Never say anything to a woman that you wouldn’t be comfortable hearing from a 350 pound man in a maximum security prison yard.”

Or translated to this case for the triggered OP: never celebrate a culture whose actions (genocide, normalized rape, and industrial scale cruelty for centuries in the case of antebellum southern culture) you wouldn’t want to be subject to.

OMG. Overreact much? Are you this concerned about all those black girls who pledge black sororities? “But the power imbalance!!” - clutches pearls -

Child: “Mom, why is there a Mother’s Day and a Father’s Day but no kids’ day!”

Exhausted mom: “Honey, every day is kids’ day.”

PP: “Why don’t critiques of people celebrating a violent genocidal past ALSO criticize the descendents of the victims? It’s not FAIR!”

DP. You have serious issues. No one is “celebrating a violent genocidal past,” you utter dolt. Find somewhere else to spread your race-baiting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/22/opinion/bama-rush-tiktok-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Angry woman from NYT big mad that Bama girls are hot and also big mad that outsiders think the Bama girls are hot also.

“ Their Southern accents are the linguistic equivalent of pointing a ring light at their shiny hair and tasteful makeup. ”

“ that accent is seductive. It says these are ideal women from a regional culture that values traditional gender norms ”

“ these sororities’ annual viral juggernaut is counterprogramming to the Northeastern elite university brand. The Bama version is wholesome, nonthreatening, traditional femininity in Lululemon athleisure. ”

The whole article is a must read

No thoughts on the history of segregation and Greek life? On the role of the Machine? You're missing the point if you think this piece and other critiques of the system are directed at the "shiny hair and tasteful makeup."

And the Devine nine don’t segregate? Please, enough with this garbage.

+1
Amazing that actual segregated sororities get a pass from this author (and DCUM’s finest LWNJs), but all other sororities do not. And I’m not a fan of the Greek system in any iteration, but this author is so transparent.

Until white supremacy has been completely dismantled, there will always been a need for affinity groups and safe spaces for marginalized people. I know this bothers white people so much, in the same way you are not allowed to use the N word, while Black people do because a primary tenet of white culture is that no one can tell you what you can't do ever (see 2nd Amendment). White folks built an entire society and systems of exclusion and discrimination that has only been successfully challenged in the past 70 years (for kicks, picking 1954 the year of Brown v Board, though the decision did not lead truly integrated schools...) and now, the organizations that Blacks built to uplift themselves are somehow problematic? This is akin to the big bully wanting the little kid he beat up to be forced to apologize to him too.

Way to miss the point. No one has a problem with black Greek organizations. But it’s pretty damn hypocritical to excoriate other sororities for their traditions when black sororities do THE SAME THINGS. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We'd all share Cottom's outrage if she provided any evidence that this tiny number of teenagers are a lynchpin of white southern power in a way that isn't available to black teenagers. But Cottom doesn't even try to provide evidence of discrimination in the rush process. She also doesn't try to link these few hundred wannabe housewives (or are they part of the power machine, she can't seem to decide) to a controlling interest in southern society. Cottom only alludes darkly to white power structures and hopes we'll all agree.

Instead, Cottom focusses her anger on the fact that many of these few hundred teenagers are thin, white bottle blonds. Look, it's way past time to broaden our standards of beauty to include more colors and shapes. The bottle blond look isn't available to black women, but black sororities have their own beauty and behavior standards, make no mistake. Cottom mocking and excoriating white women for, basically, being white is another kettle of fish, and it's not camouflaged by the thin veneer of her unproven claim that these few hundred teenagers will allegedly go on to control southern white society.

yep. also ironic to criticize women who chose to perform their gender in a certain way, when progressives are supposed to be all about supporting gender expression. if this was a sorority of trans women glamming it up, there would be fawning NPR segments about it …

EXACTLY. “Progressives” are so transparently hypocritical. “It’s great to express yourself! But only if it’s in as alternative way as possible!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/22/opinion/bama-rush-tiktok-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Angry woman from NYT big mad that Bama girls are hot and also big mad that outsiders think the Bama girls are hot also.

“ Their Southern accents are the linguistic equivalent of pointing a ring light at their shiny hair and tasteful makeup. ”

“ that accent is seductive. It says these are ideal women from a regional culture that values traditional gender norms ”

“ these sororities’ annual viral juggernaut is counterprogramming to the Northeastern elite university brand. The Bama version is wholesome, nonthreatening, traditional femininity in Lululemon athleisure. ”

The whole article is a must read

No thoughts on the history of segregation and Greek life? On the role of the Machine? You're missing the point if you think this piece and other critiques of the system are directed at the "shiny hair and tasteful makeup."

And the Devine nine don’t segregate? Please, enough with this garbage.

+1
Amazing that actual segregated sororities get a pass from this author (and DCUM’s finest LWNJs), but all other sororities do not. And I’m not a fan of the Greek system in any iteration, but this author is so transparent.

Until white supremacy has been completely dismantled, there will always been a need for affinity groups and safe spaces for marginalized people. I know this bothers white people so much, in the same way you are not allowed to use the N word, while Black people do because a primary tenet of white culture is that no one can tell you what you can't do ever (see 2nd Amendment). White folks built an entire society and systems of exclusion and discrimination that has only been successfully challenged in the past 70 years (for kicks, picking 1954 the year of Brown v Board, though the decision did not lead truly integrated schools...) and now, the organizations that Blacks built to uplift themselves are somehow problematic? This is akin to the big bully wanting the little kid he beat up to be forced to apologize to him too.

DP. I agree that affinity groups are helpful. But it's still self-segregation, and that actually undermines Cottom's argument that the White sororities are excluding Blacks.

So you need to decide: which is it, are Blacks self-segregating in their own sororities, or are White sororities excluding them as Cottom is claiming? If the latter, you need to prove with data (not just assert) that Black people who actually want to get into these White sororities are being discriminated against. You don't even try to prove this, and Cotton doesn't try to prove this either.

Also, grow the eff up. Accusing posters who disagree with you of wanting to use the N word and carry guns is really childish.

+ a million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We'd all share Cottom's outrage if she provided any evidence that this tiny number of teenagers are a lynchpin of white southern power in a way that isn't available to black teenagers. But Cottom doesn't even try to provide evidence of discrimination in the rush process. She also doesn't try to link these few hundred wannabe housewives (or are they part of the power machine, she can't seem to decide) to a controlling interest in southern society. Cottom only alludes darkly to white power structures and hopes we'll all agree.

Instead, Cottom focusses her anger on the fact that many of these few hundred teenagers are thin, white bottle blonds. Look, it's way past time to broaden our standards of beauty to include more colors and shapes. The bottle blond look isn't available to black women, but black sororities have their own beauty and behavior standards, make no mistake. Cottom mocking and excoriating white women for, basically, being white is another kettle of fish, and it's not camouflaged by the thin veneer of her unproven claim that these few hundred teenagers will allegedly go on to control southern white society.

I just posted a snarky response agreeing with you before I actually read the article. Cottom is a cultural critic - so as much as David Brooks can write about a sandwich as representing something (a sandwich that I actually just ate btw) Cottom can write about Bama Rush (and she does in a better and more informed way). She’s also commenting on Bama Rush as a new pop culture phenomenon via Tik Toks. As far as race goes she observes the lack of diversity but has very interesting things to say about how to interpret that. Anyways Cottom does in other of her pieces/interviews indulge in dime-store reliance on the reified concept of “whiteness” which I really dislike but she doesn’t do it here. She has a much broader range examining economics, gender, class, & pop culture. I’m glad to see her on the pages of the NYT.

You can think that both Brooks and Cottom are idiots, and I do. I'm no fan of the greeks, but if Cottom were really making a point about the greek system in general, I'd have more respect for her if she took down black frats too. She asserts various things about diversity and discrimination in the sororities, but she doesn't provide any evidence (at least Brooks occasionally serves up a fact, but he's still an idiot). Cottom's piece basically slams a pretty much irrelevant group of white women for doing white things. This doesn't advance racial awareness, instead it just drives more readers into the arms of Trump and his ilk.

black sororities are an entirely different cultural and historical phenomenon than white sororoties! for one, there is no Tik Tok trend of black sorority rushing. To demand that Cottom treat them equally out of some kind of belief that they are symmetric phenomena is to ENTIRELY miss the point.

As for Brooks v Cottom, if there is any justice, she’ll get his spot in the NYTimes when he retires. I’ve been following her for over 10 yrs and she has a lot of interesting things to say.

Are you absolutely sure about that?

https://www.tiktok.com/@iamthelaurenelise/video/6997219218303372550
https://www.tiktok.com/@thesassyguru/video/7131832704986942766
https://app-va.tiktokv.com/redirect/?redirect_url=snssdk1233%3A%2F%2Faweme%2Fpush_detail%3Faction%3Dvideo%26cold%3Dfeed%26gd_label%3Dclick_wap_keyword_expansion_video%26gids%3D7132575151954136363%26hot%3Dfeed%26params_url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.tiktok.com%252Fdiscover%252Fbama-rush-historically-black-sorority-divine-9-tiktok-aka-documentary%26refer%3Dweb%26needlaunchlog%3D1%26ug_medium%3Dfe_component%26page_name%3Dkeyword_bama-rush-historically-black-sorority-divine-9-tiktok-aka-documentary%26wid%3D7272812950363244074%26awedp_require_login%3Dnormal&dl=https%3A%2F%2Fsnssdk1233.onelink.me%2FbIdt%3Fdomain_source%3Dtiktok%26af_dp%3Dsnssdk1233%253A%252F%252Faweme%252Fpush_detail%253Faction%253Dvideo%2526cold%253Dfeed%2526gd_label%253Dclick_wap_keyword_expansion_video%2526gids%253D7132575151954136363%2526hot%253Dfeed%2526params_url%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.tiktok.com%25252Fdiscover%25252Fbama-rush-historically-black-sorority-divine-9-tiktok-aka-documentary%2526refer%253Dweb%2526needlaunchlog%253D1%2526ug_medium%253Dfe_component%2526page_name%253Dkeyword_bama-rush-historically-black-sorority-divine-9-tiktok-aka-documentary%2526wid%253D7272812950363244074%2526awedp_require_login%253Dnormal%26pid%3Dtiktokkeywordsseo%26af_adset%3Dorganic%26af_siteid%3Dmobile%26af_ad_id%3Dgoogle%26c%3Dkeyword_bama-rush-historically-black-sorority-divine-9-tiktok-aka-documentary%26af_ad%3Dvideo%26wid%3D7272812950363244074%26canonical%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.tiktok.com%252Fdiscover%252Fbama-rush-historically-black-sorority-divine-9-tiktok-aka-documentary&decode_once=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/22/opinion/bama-rush-tiktok-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Angry woman from NYT big mad that Bama girls are hot and also big mad that outsiders think the Bama girls are hot also.

“ Their Southern accents are the linguistic equivalent of pointing a ring light at their shiny hair and tasteful makeup. ”

“ that accent is seductive. It says these are ideal women from a regional culture that values traditional gender norms ”

“ these sororities’ annual viral juggernaut is counterprogramming to the Northeastern elite university brand. The Bama version is wholesome, nonthreatening, traditional femininity in Lululemon athleisure. ”

The whole article is a must read

No thoughts on the history of segregation and Greek life? On the role of the Machine? You're missing the point if you think this piece and other critiques of the system are directed at the "shiny hair and tasteful makeup."

And the Devine nine don’t segregate? Please, enough with this garbage.

+1
Amazing that actual segregated sororities get a pass from this author (and DCUM’s finest LWNJs), but all other sororities do not. And I’m not a fan of the Greek system in any iteration, but this author is so transparent.

Until white supremacy has been completely dismantled, there will always been a need for affinity groups and safe spaces for marginalized people. I know this bothers white people so much, in the same way you are not allowed to use the N word, while Black people do because a primary tenet of white culture is that no one can tell you what you can't do ever (see 2nd Amendment). White folks built an entire society and systems of exclusion and discrimination that has only been successfully challenged in the past 70 years (for kicks, picking 1954 the year of Brown v Board, though the decision did not lead truly integrated schools...) and now, the organizations that Blacks built to uplift themselves are somehow problematic? This is akin to the big bully wanting the little kid he beat up to be forced to apologize to him too.

the more important point is that there is no black sorority Tik Tok trend.

anyway, I don’t think any white DCUM person who knows any black people in DC fails to understand the role of Jack & Jill, HBCUs, black sororities/frats, or vacations to Oak Bluffs. I’m sure Cottom would have equally interesting things to say about them as elite institutions.

Do you think all the TikTok viewers are watching because they admire these sisters? Seriously? Probably most viewers are hate-watching and laughing. Also, you dodged the question about self-segregation contradicting Cottom's thesis about discrimination.

What is her “thesis about discrimination”? I don’t think you read the article. If your thesis is that white sororities in Alabama is exactly the same thing as say Howard University, I think you’re being willfully obtuse.

In any event her piece has almost as much to do with gender & class as race. Sure it would be interesting if she wrote about Black elite institutions… but they are not a pop cultural phenom at the moment and Cottom is a *cultural critic.*

DP. I’m imagining the outrage had a white *cultural critic* had the nerve to write a critical piece about black sororities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We'd all share Cottom's outrage if she provided any evidence that this tiny number of teenagers are a lynchpin of white southern power in a way that isn't available to black teenagers. But Cottom doesn't even try to provide evidence of discrimination in the rush process. She also doesn't try to link these few hundred wannabe housewives (or are they part of the power machine, she can't seem to decide) to a controlling interest in southern society. Cottom only alludes darkly to white power structures and hopes we'll all agree.

Instead, Cottom focusses her anger on the fact that many of these few hundred teenagers are thin, white bottle blonds. Look, it's way past time to broaden our standards of beauty to include more colors and shapes. The bottle blond look isn't available to black women, but black sororities have their own beauty and behavior standards, make no mistake. Cottom mocking and excoriating white women for, basically, being white is another kettle of fish, and it's not camouflaged by the thin veneer of her unproven claim that these few hundred teenagers will allegedly go on to control southern white society.

I just posted a snarky response agreeing with you before I actually read the article. Cottom is a cultural critic - so as much as David Brooks can write about a sandwich as representing something (a sandwich that I actually just ate btw) Cottom can write about Bama Rush (and she does in a better and more informed way). She’s also commenting on Bama Rush as a new pop culture phenomenon via Tik Toks. As far as race goes she observes the lack of diversity but has very interesting things to say about how to interpret that. Anyways Cottom does in other of her pieces/interviews indulge in dime-store reliance on the reified concept of “whiteness” which I really dislike but she doesn’t do it here. She has a much broader range examining economics, gender, class, & pop culture. I’m glad to see her on the pages of the NYT.

You can think that both Brooks and Cottom are idiots, and I do. I'm no fan of the greeks, but if Cottom were really making a point about the greek system in general, I'd have more respect for her if she took down black frats too. She asserts various things about diversity and discrimination in the sororities, but she doesn't provide any evidence (at least Brooks occasionally serves up a fact, but he's still an idiot). Cottom's piece basically slams a pretty much irrelevant group of white women for doing white things. This doesn't advance racial awareness, instead it just drives more readers into the arms of Trump and his ilk.

This is exactly why MLK said that moderates were also part of the problem. The year has changed, but the sentiment is the same. White moderates are the driving power force behind white supremacy. Constantly telling the other side to tone down their rhetoric because it will alienate conservatives and prevent advancement is a farce. The conservatives were against the progress from the start and will never be convinced otherwise. It is the moderates themselves who don't like the rhetoric because it makes THEM uncomfortable. This is all about white comfort. White people must never be made to feel badly, or sit in the discomfort of knowing that many of the things they love are harmful and problematic.

DP. I can’t even. You and your “white supremacy”… let me guess, you also think math is “racist.” No wonder no one takes progressives seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We'd all share Cottom's outrage if she provided any evidence that this tiny number of teenagers are a lynchpin of white southern power in a way that isn't available to black teenagers. But Cottom doesn't even try to provide evidence of discrimination in the rush process. She also doesn't try to link these few hundred wannabe housewives (or are they part of the power machine, she can't seem to decide) to a controlling interest in southern society. Cottom only alludes darkly to white power structures and hopes we'll all agree.

Instead, Cottom focusses her anger on the fact that many of these few hundred teenagers are thin, white bottle blonds. Look, it's way past time to broaden our standards of beauty to include more colors and shapes. The bottle blond look isn't available to black women, but black sororities have their own beauty and behavior standards, make no mistake. Cottom mocking and excoriating white women for, basically, being white is another kettle of fish, and it's not camouflaged by the thin veneer of her unproven claim that these few hundred teenagers will allegedly go on to control southern white society.

I just posted a snarky response agreeing with you before I actually read the article. Cottom is a cultural critic - so as much as David Brooks can write about a sandwich as representing something (a sandwich that I actually just ate btw) Cottom can write about Bama Rush (and she does in a better and more informed way). She’s also commenting on Bama Rush as a new pop culture phenomenon via Tik Toks. As far as race goes she observes the lack of diversity but has very interesting things to say about how to interpret that. Anyways Cottom does in other of her pieces/interviews indulge in dime-store reliance on the reified concept of “whiteness” which I really dislike but she doesn’t do it here. She has a much broader range examining economics, gender, class, & pop culture. I’m glad to see her on the pages of the NYT.

You can think that both Brooks and Cottom are idiots, and I do. I'm no fan of the greeks, but if Cottom were really making a point about the greek system in general, I'd have more respect for her if she took down black frats too. She asserts various things about diversity and discrimination in the sororities, but she doesn't provide any evidence (at least Brooks occasionally serves up a fact, but he's still an idiot). Cottom's piece basically slams a pretty much irrelevant group of white women for doing white things. This doesn't advance racial awareness, instead it just drives more readers into the arms of Trump and his ilk.

black sororities are an entirely different cultural and historical phenomenon than white sororoties! for one, there is no Tik Tok trend of black sorority rushing. To demand that Cottom treat them equally out of some kind of belief that they are symmetric phenomena is to ENTIRELY miss the point.

As for Brooks v Cottom, if there is any justice, she’ll get his spot in the NYTimes when he retires. I’ve been following her for over 10 yrs and she has a lot of interesting things to say.

Exactly, besides, why would Cottom turns a lens on something that she is a part of? Besides, everyone knows that the divine nine have an open bid process and take all comers and then welcome them into sisterhood with no hazing at all. It's totally different

OMG - this is such BS. Of course they have a selective bid process.

https://www.watchtheyard.com/opinion/incoming-freshmans-guide-how-to-join-a-black-fraternitysorority/

[Anonymous]

https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4158660-bamarush-shows-whats-wrong-with-public-higher-ed/

Syncs with the other thread on why people go to oos state unis

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/22/opinion/bama-rush-tiktok-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Angry woman from NYT big mad that Bama girls are hot and also big mad that outsiders think the Bama girls are hot also.

“ Their Southern accents are the linguistic equivalent of pointing a ring light at their shiny hair and tasteful makeup. ”

“ that accent is seductive. It says these are ideal women from a regional culture that values traditional gender norms ”

“ these sororities’ annual viral juggernaut is counterprogramming to the Northeastern elite university brand. The Bama version is wholesome, nonthreatening, traditional femininity in Lululemon athleisure. ”

The whole article is a must read

No thoughts on the history of segregation and Greek life? On the role of the Machine? You're missing the point if you think this piece and other critiques of the system are directed at the "shiny hair and tasteful makeup."

And the Devine nine don’t segregate? Please, enough with this garbage.

+1
Amazing that actual segregated sororities get a pass from this author (and DCUM’s finest LWNJs), but all other sororities do not. And I’m not a fan of the Greek system in any iteration, but this author is so transparent.

Until white supremacy has been completely dismantled, there will always been a need for affinity groups and safe spaces for marginalized people. I know this bothers white people so much, in the same way you are not allowed to use the N word, while Black people do because a primary tenet of white culture is that no one can tell you what you can't do ever (see 2nd Amendment). White folks built an entire society and systems of exclusion and discrimination that has only been successfully challenged in the past 70 years (for kicks, picking 1954 the year of Brown v Board, though the decision did not lead truly integrated schools...) and now, the organizations that Blacks built to uplift themselves are somehow problematic? This is akin to the big bully wanting the little kid he beat up to be forced to apologize to him too.

the more important point is that there is no black sorority Tik Tok trend.

anyway, I don’t think any white DCUM person who knows any black people in DC fails to understand the role of Jack & Jill, HBCUs, black sororities/frats, or vacations to Oak Bluffs. I’m sure Cottom would have equally interesting things to say about them as elite institutions.

Do you think all the TikTok viewers are watching because they admire these sisters? Seriously? Probably most viewers are hate-watching and laughing. Also, you dodged the question about self-segregation contradicting Cottom's thesis about discrimination.

What is her “thesis about discrimination”? I don’t think you read the article. If your thesis is that white sororities in Alabama is exactly the same thing as say Howard University, I think you’re being willfully obtuse.

In any event her piece has almost as much to do with gender & class as race. Sure it would be interesting if she wrote about Black elite institutions… but they are not a pop cultural phenom at the moment and Cottom is a *cultural critic.*

There's absolutely a white patriarchy in Alabama, and it needs to be dismantled now or yesterday. Fraternities and sororities also probably need to be dismantled.

Going after a handful of white teenagers by mocking their looks and bodies is the wrong way to go about it, though. So yes, I agree with you, that it's about gender. It's about white women, specifically. That's Cottom's beat--she dislikes white women. To the point where she's willing to allude to discrimination (you're right, Cottom has no clear thesis because she has no data to back it up, and pp with the self-segregation is busy undermining Cottom too) as some sort of thin cover for her misogyny.

Nobody ever equated white sororities in Alabama to Howard U. You're the one being obtuse. We all agree there's a history there, and nobody wants to go back to the days of deb balls. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about rushing in 2024.

Hopefully that leads to the NYT and UNC parting ways with her. If this same article was written about the appearance of black women, she would have already written her apology and been fired, but it's ok to attack white women based on appearance.

+1
And it’s especially ok for a black woman to attack white women. Never would a white woman dare to write this kind of garbage about black women, and if she did, the NYT would NEVER publish it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We'd all share Cottom's outrage if she provided any evidence that this tiny number of teenagers are a lynchpin of white southern power in a way that isn't available to black teenagers. But Cottom doesn't even try to provide evidence of discrimination in the rush process. She also doesn't try to link these few hundred wannabe housewives (or are they part of the power machine, she can't seem to decide) to a controlling interest in southern society. Cottom only alludes darkly to white power structures and hopes we'll all agree.

Instead, Cottom focusses her anger on the fact that many of these few hundred teenagers are thin, white bottle blonds. Look, it's way past time to broaden our standards of beauty to include more colors and shapes. The bottle blond look isn't available to black women, but black sororities have their own beauty and behavior standards, make no mistake. Cottom mocking and excoriating white women for, basically, being white is another kettle of fish, and it's not camouflaged by the thin veneer of her unproven claim that these few hundred teenagers will allegedly go on to control southern white society.

She's a sigma gamma rho. You don't expect her to exercise introspection, do you?

DP. Are you serious? This woman is herself a sorority sister and has the nerve to criticize others - who are white? What an utter hypocrite.

Sororities like Sigma Gamma Rho are integrating quicker than the Deep South sororities. Sigma Gamma Rho is still mostly Black members but do have White members, Latino and mixed race. And they are all shapes and sizes.

There’s a lot to ridicule about Univ of Alabama and the sorority in the documentary . Politically Southern states are going backwards allowing people to be more comfortable with exclusion based on color or looks.

It wasn’t too long ago that Univ of Alabama wouldn’t allow Black students through the door until they were forced by the military. The South drags their feet with any hint of progressiveness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not seeing the mocking described here. I am seeing a straightforward description of the culture/phenomenon that actually leans into the patriarchy too.

Sure, sure. And you’d say the same thing if the subject of this dumb piece was black sorority girls, amirite?