GDS just dropped AP testing

[Anonymous]

So maybe just maybe the GDS kids were not doing consistently well enough on the AP exams to justify the school seeming to say you will be prepared for AP exams via our rigorous non-AP courses?

[Anonymous]

My sense is much of the frustration in this issue has to do with the pact that various schools had struck in 2018. As you can see below, all the schools listed said they were doing away with AP classes, but would still offer the tests. It would appear that in fact a number of the schools actually backtracked on even getting rid of the classes and it would now appear that GDS is the only school unwilling to offer the test.

"The other schools dropping AP are Sidwell Friends, Georgetown Day, National Cathedral and St. Albans in the District of Columbia, as well as Landon in Bethesda and Potomac in McLean, Va. Maret School in the District, which has never offered AP classes, joined in the anti-AP statement. All eight serve largely affluent families who can afford pricey tuition. Students will still be able to take AP tests after the private schools phase out their affiliation with the brand."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My sense is much of the frustration in this issue has to do with the pact that various schools had struck in 2018. As you can see below, all the schools listed said they were doing away with AP classes, but would still offer the tests. It would appear that in fact a number of the schools actually backtracked on even getting rid of the classes and it would now appear that GDS is the only school unwilling to offer the test.

"The other schools dropping AP are Sidwell Friends, Georgetown Day, National Cathedral and St. Albans in the District of Columbia, as well as Landon in Bethesda and Potomac in McLean, Va. Maret School in the District, which has never offered AP classes, joined in the anti-AP statement. All eight serve largely affluent families who can afford pricey tuition. Students will still be able to take AP tests after the private schools phase out their affiliation with the brand."

You are right. Though let’s remember two reasons why some schools backtracked. First was that DOJ found these schools all culpable of collusion but chose not to prosecute since they reached this decision during COVID. This probably scared some of the schools.

Second, facts on the ground changed with respect to SAT/AP and grade inflation at many public schools during pandemic and it became clear to smart CC offices at some of these schools that keeping some objective measures like AP could help some of the kids. So why not keep offering some AP classes and testing. GDS went to the doctrinaire opposite extreme because certain elements of the administration believe in equality of outcome over equality of opportunity. I’m a parent and have heard this directly. As in these words quoted.

These same elements of administration explicitly do not believe in standardized testing. Perhaps they always held these views but 2020 and its aftermath allowed them to articulate and then to implement this at GDS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So maybe just maybe the GDS kids were not doing consistently well enough on the AP exams to justify the school seeming to say you will be prepared for AP exams via our rigorous non-AP courses?

False. CC office published last year that a very high percent of GDS test taker scored 4+ in 2022. In fact the fact that they published this year after they said they were dropping AP courses and just keeping testing pissed off many parents. So inconsistent. They would downplay in October whether kids should even sign up and which kids should sign up for tests.

So instead of keeping testing and improving communication to parents but dropping advertising of the test results in their college profile, they dropped testing outright. So now the 10-15 Kids a year who apply to UK schools are scrambling

I know one parent who has called 18 schools in DMV and none will take outside kids for testing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, what GDS is saying is something that I’ve always known to be true and the college admissions counselors have said over and over again is true but that DCUM simply refuses to accept: AP scores don’t matter for college admissions. They just don’t. They only matter for college credit. What’s important to college admissions officials at the top colleges is that you generally take the toughest courses available to you in high school, and in public schools and many privates those courses are AP. But it’s the courses that count, not the scores on the AP exams. After all, most students take more AP courses their senior year than any other year, and colleges won’t even see the AP exam scores into after they have already made their admissions decisions.

Every time I see a “chance my kid” post here where somebody talks about their kid having all 5s I roll my eyes for this reason. They just don’t get it.

I think it’s safe to assume that a school as prestigious and successful in college admissions as GDS knows better about what is important to college admissions than the likes of you.

I think it's the exact opposite. They won't be accepted as college credit at a lot of schools, but the grades and test scores matter b/c they are more objective in the era of grade inflation.

Just look at how the UC system handles it. AP classes and 4s and 5s are a nationally accepted sign of rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, what GDS is saying is something that I’ve always known to be true and the college admissions counselors have said over and over again is true but that DCUM simply refuses to accept: AP scores don’t matter for college admissions. They just don’t. They only matter for college credit. What’s important to college admissions officials at the top colleges is that you generally take the toughest courses available to you in high school, and in public schools and many privates those courses are AP. But it’s the courses that count, not the scores on the AP exams. After all, most students take more AP courses their senior year than any other year, and colleges won’t even see the AP exam scores into after they have already made their admissions decisions.

Every time I see a “chance my kid” post here where somebody talks about their kid having all 5s I roll my eyes for this reason. They just don’t get it.

I think it’s safe to assume that a school as prestigious and successful in college admissions as GDS knows better about what is important to college admissions than the likes of you.

I think it's the exact opposite. They won't be accepted as college credit at a lot of schools, but the grades and test scores matter b/c they are more objective in the era of grade inflation.

Just look at how the UC system handles it. AP classes and 4s and 5s are a nationally accepted sign of rigor.

I partially agree with you

-Yes to AP coursework and test scores signaling rigor. It does. The people on DCUM who claim it doesnt are wrong. As is the GDS CC office. Perhaps teh GDS stalwarts of Tufts, Middlebury, and Bowdoin (all great schools BTW) dont care or maybe they say they dont care about AP courses or tests signaling rigor. But many others do

-But no on acceptance of 4s and 5s on AP tests by colleges to bypass intro or required classes

Here are just a few of the top 10 US News

Princeton
-accepts AP test scores to bypass language, and some engineering and pre-med requirements
https://advising.princeton.edu/placement/advanced-placement

Harvard
-accepted for placement
https://registrar.fas.harvard.edu/test-scores-advanced-standing

Yale
-english, foreign language, math, physics acceleration
https://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/table-of-acceleration-credit/

UPenn
-credits awarded mostly for 5s
https://www.college.upenn.edu/ap-equivalence

MIT
-grants credit for 5s
https://firstyear.mit.edu/academics-exploration/ap-transfer-credit/advanced-placement/

I know for a fact that BC, NYU and the rest of the top 30 are in most cases even more generous in allowing 4s and 5s on AP tests to let kids bypass 101 level classes.

[Anonymous]

Public school parents get a win on this one. Really is upsetting. AP scores HELPED my GDS kid get into his new school. I am really upset because I have 1 more still there. I called around and and not getting calls back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So maybe just maybe the GDS kids were not doing consistently well enough on the AP exams to justify the school seeming to say you will be prepared for AP exams via our rigorous non-AP courses?

Nope. According to GDS, in May 2021, 114 GDS kids sat for 174 AP exams.

41% earned 5s
73% earned 4 or 5
91% earned 3 or above

https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1636400955/gdsorg/ciq4lvx8wbgfzccyswox/2021-22GDSHSProfile.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public school parents get a win on this one. Really is upsetting. AP scores HELPED my GDS kid get into his new school. I am really upset because I have 1 more still there. I called around and and not getting calls back.

Odd comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school parents get a win on this one. Really is upsetting. AP scores HELPED my GDS kid get into his new school. I am really upset because I have 1 more still there. I called around and and not getting calls back.

Odd comment.

I agree. This has nothing to do with public school parents.

[Anonymous]

Why are you the GDS parent calling the other schools about AP testing? Shouldn’t GDS upper school administration work out a deal with a neighboring school? What are you parents paying for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They had dropped the AP courses a few years ago (collusion case successfully brought by DOJ as a result of this as we all remember).

Now GDS just announced that they are dropping AP testing

"Over the last year, our team has been in conversation with dozens of college admissions offices from small liberal arts colleges to large flagship state institutions. In each of these conversations, we have confirmed what we shared with families when GDS moved away from AP courses: For college admissions, there is no advantage to taking AP tests if you attend a high school that does not offer that coursework."

Is this statement true? How about the increasing # of kids who have been applying and matriculating at UK/Ireland/Canadian schools? How about schools like NYU that actually take AP testing in lieu of SAT/ACT (optional of course).

Something about this decision sits wrong with me...they are making it even harder for the subset of students who dont want to go to SLACs.

Also what about the college credit that some schools - esp. state flagships still offer for AP tests 4+

How's that for GDS equity mission?

I read this as, it is only beneficial for those to take the test if they are taking a corresponding AP level class. So dumb to have eliminated the AP classes. parents have swallowed up the whole DEI initiative and now their kids are going to be harmed by it. The thought process is “ we are already so privileged so let’s get rid on the AP classes to ensure equal outcomes for those less privileged”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public school parents get a win on this one. Really is upsetting. AP scores HELPED my GDS kid get into his new school. I am really upset because I have 1 more still there. I called around and and not getting calls back.

You need to seriously chill out. DCPS only started this week and their own students' schedules will be in flux for another few weeks at a minimum---my kid's friends haven't even been placed into the correct classes yet (for instance, my neighbor has no language, no math
on his current schedule).

Once JR has their own kids actually placed into AP classes then maybe they can think about accommodating outside kids. For the next month the school will have no idea what they're dealing with. My kids are at STA/NCS and they haven't even started the school year yet. Again, they have no idea how many internal AP exams they will need to proctor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So maybe just maybe the GDS kids were not doing consistently well enough on the AP exams to justify the school seeming to say you will be prepared for AP exams via our rigorous non-AP courses?

Nope. According to GDS, in May 2021, 114 GDS kids sat for 174 AP exams.

41% earned 5s
73% earned 4 or 5
91% earned 3 or above

https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1636400955/gdsorg/ciq4lvx8wbgfzccyswox/2021-22GDSHSProfile.pdf

If you're coming from a prep school, 5s are what's expected. Our private high school (competitive admission) says don't put anything but 5s on your transcript. This school doesn't even offer AP classes - these kids are self studying. Our school's college counselor also routinely tells kids to retake the SAT if their score is a 1480 or 1500. Again, this is not a school with a diverse academic profile, they had to be high performers to get in. A 4 on any AP is kinda like a 1400 on the SAT .. those are not impressive scores for this population. I don't think the GDS scores above are impressive at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So maybe just maybe the GDS kids were not doing consistently well enough on the AP exams to justify the school seeming to say you will be prepared for AP exams via our rigorous non-AP courses?

Nope. According to GDS, in May 2021, 114 GDS kids sat for 174 AP exams.

41% earned 5s
73% earned 4 or 5
91% earned 3 or above

https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1636400955/gdsorg/ciq4lvx8wbgfzccyswox/2021-22GDSHSProfile.pdf

If you're coming from a prep school, 5s are what's expected. Our private high school (competitive admission) says don't put anything but 5s on your transcript. This school doesn't even offer AP classes - these kids are self studying. Our school's college counselor also routinely tells kids to retake the SAT if their score is a 1480 or 1500. Again, this is not a school with a diverse academic profile, they had to be high performers to get in. A 4 on any AP is kinda like a 1400 on the SAT .. those are not impressive scores for this population. I don't think the GDS scores above are impressive at all.

Way to go off-topic...this was not meant to be a brag but just to respond to a stupid comment that GDS kids can't pass the AP test.