GDS just dropped AP testing

[Anonymous]

Maybe there is no advantage for admissions but there is an advantage in terms of graduating early, picking up a minor, repeating a class without delaying graduation...

I also think in the world of no SATs and grade inflation, submitting lots of 5s in challenging APs is one of the few things left to show you can handle challenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They had dropped the AP courses a few years ago (collusion case successfully brought by DOJ as a result of this as we all remember).

Now GDS just announced that they are dropping AP testing

"Over the last year, our team has been in conversation with dozens of college admissions offices from small liberal arts colleges to large flagship state institutions. In each of these conversations, we have confirmed what we shared with families when GDS moved away from AP courses: For college admissions, there is no advantage to taking AP tests if you attend a high school that does not offer that coursework."

Is this statement true? How about the increasing # of kids who have been applying and matriculating at UK/Ireland/Canadian schools? How about schools like NYU that actually take AP testing in lieu of SAT/ACT (optional of course).

Something about this decision sits wrong with me...they are making it even harder for the subset of students who dont want to go to SLACs.

Also what about the college credit that some schools - esp. state flagships still offer for AP tests 4+

How's that for GDS equity mission?

Maybe the parents are too cowed to do anything, but this seems like a final straw. I have to believe there is a large group that can push back and just say that the effort required to just provide the test is so minimal that even if you are correct with admissions...we still want to take the tests. Heck, parents can even proctor. We just need the school to handle the administrative aspects.

[Anonymous]

What is GDS?

[Anonymous]

My kids go to a private HS with no AP classes, but they do administer many of the tests in May.

Because there are no AP classes, the parents Facebook page lights up every year: should my kids take these? what AP tests align with coursework taught? Pros and cons.

We also have a (super informative) senior parent to junior parent info night about college stuff. I've been through this twice. One of the standard questions to the panel, did your kid take APs, how many, did it matter. And the responses are pretty much 1/3 for each of these:

- Kid never took an AP test, we don't think it mattered one bit in apps. Glad we didn't waste time on that

- Kid took one AP test each year for classes that we heard line up. We were delighted/disappointed that college kid is going to this fall is accepting/not accepting. Wish we skipped/took more. But eh.

- Kid took no/one AP test and by fall of senior year realized they were interested in UK, School in Europe. And now kid has conditional acceptance in hand, but will have to take 3-5 AP tests in May of his senior year and get a 5 on each one. Super high stakes. OR Kid took no/one AP test and now realize school will take APs and having 4 of these would save us 50k or more (or kid doesn't want to take these 101 classes) and .. also now kid is also taking 4 tests for classes he took a year ago and they're pretty high stakes. Both parents: wish school had been clear about this earlier on.

So IMO, GDS is appealing to schools in category 1. Who are applying to US school and aren't too concerned with possibly getting a semester of credits, credited.

What a pain for people who end up in last group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD13 is starting 8th grade and we need to apply for high schools in January. She will go to university overseas as we cannot afford the US system. I knew GDS had stopped offering AP courses but didn’t know they were still doing AP testing. What difference does dropping the testing part make?

Because many overseas schools want to see AP scores for the subject your child intends to study. For example if the want to study physics the school would want to see high AP scores on physics and appropriate math exams at a minimum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They had dropped the AP courses a few years ago (collusion case successfully brought by DOJ as a result of this as we all remember).

Now GDS just announced that they are dropping AP testing

"Over the last year, our team has been in conversation with dozens of college admissions offices from small liberal arts colleges to large flagship state institutions. In each of these conversations, we have confirmed what we shared with families when GDS moved away from AP courses: For college admissions, there is no advantage to taking AP tests if you attend a high school that does not offer that coursework."

Is this statement true? How about the increasing # of kids who have been applying and matriculating at UK/Ireland/Canadian schools? How about schools like NYU that actually take AP testing in lieu of SAT/ACT (optional of course).

Something about this decision sits wrong with me...they are making it even harder for the subset of students who dont want to go to SLACs.

Also what about the college credit that some schools - esp. state flagships still offer for AP tests 4+

How's that for GDS equity mission?

They asked dozens of college admission offices.

You're asking DCUM.

Who might have the better information on this?

[Anonymous]

Strange. I was told with inflated GPAs these days Kids scoring 5s are looked at preferentially.

I was also told by AOs abs college counselor that part of a HS rigor is the profile of AP scores from the college board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe there is no advantage for admissions but there is an advantage in terms of graduating early, picking up a minor, repeating a class without delaying graduation...

I also think in the world of no SATs and grade inflation, submitting lots of 5s in challenging APs is one of the few things left to show you can handle challenge.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe there is no advantage for admissions but there is an advantage in terms of graduating early, picking up a minor, repeating a class without delaying graduation...

I also think in the world of no SATs and grade inflation, submitting lots of 5s in challenging APs is one of the few things left to show you can handle challenge.

The top schools don't give all that much credit because literally all of the kids are coming in with "college" credit. It probably helps at other colleges.

Examples
https://registrar.fas.harvard.edu/test-scores-advanced-standing#advancedstanding

Advanced Placement examinations, the International Baccalaureate diploma, and international credentials will no longer be recognized for Harvard College credit toward the degree beginning with the students who enter the College in Fall 2020.

https://cce.caltech.edu/undergraduate/ugrad-admissions

Please note that we do not grant credit for AP, IB, A Level, Pre-U, or college courses taken prior to enrollment.

https://www.amherst.edu/academiclife/registrar/for-students/course-registration

If a student has taken International Baccalaureate, Advanced Placement or college courses during secondary school, we view this as significant evidence of academic accomplishment and preparation. In addition, some Amherst departments will allow a student to forego introductory level courses in areas in which rigorous work has already been completed. However, we do not accept such courses for credit or advanced standing.[/QUOTE}

[Anonymous]

Look, what GDS is saying is something that I’ve always known to be true and the college admissions counselors have said over and over again is true but that DCUM simply refuses to accept: AP scores don’t matter for college admissions. They just don’t. They only matter for college credit. What’s important to college admissions officials at the top colleges is that you generally take the toughest courses available to you in high school, and in public schools and many privates those courses are AP. But it’s the courses that count, not the scores on the AP exams. After all, most students take more AP courses their senior year than any other year, and colleges won’t even see the AP exam scores into after they have already made their admissions decisions.

Every time I see a “chance my kid” post here where somebody talks about their kid having all 5s I roll my eyes for this reason. They just don’t get it.

I think it’s safe to assume that a school as prestigious and successful in college admissions as GDS knows better about what is important to college admissions than the likes of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, what GDS is saying is something that I’ve always known to be true and the college admissions counselors have said over and over again is true but that DCUM simply refuses to accept: AP scores don’t matter for college admissions. They just don’t. They only matter for college credit. What’s important to college admissions officials at the top colleges is that you generally take the toughest courses available to you in high school, and in public schools and many privates those courses are AP. But it’s the courses that count, not the scores on the AP exams. After all, most students take more AP courses their senior year than any other year, and colleges won’t even see the AP exam scores into after they have already made their admissions decisions.

Every time I see a “chance my kid” post here where somebody talks about their kid having all 5s I roll my eyes for this reason. They just don’t get it.

I think it’s safe to assume that a school as prestigious and successful in college admissions as GDS knows better about what is important to college admissions than the likes of you.

NYU at least will accept 3 AP scores in lieu of SATs or ACTs

https://www.nyu.edu/admissions/undergraduate-admissions/how-to-apply/standardized-tests.html

BC uses them in admission

https://www.bc.edu/content/bc-web/admission/apply/test-optional.html

Same with CWU

https://case.edu/admission/apply/requirements-enhancements

and Dartmouth

https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/glossary-question/2028-applicants-what-does-test-optional-class-2028-mean

Duke make be most explicit
"We value those scores when available as demonstrations of subject mastery to complement your academic transcripts. You should self-report these scores in your application."
https://admissions.duke.edu/faqs/

Rice is similar to Duke

https://admission.rice.edu/apply/first-year-domestic-applicants

Hopkins wants them

https://apply.jhu.edu/how-to-apply/application-deadlines-requirements/standardized-testing/

Swarthmore warns that they can help or hurt
"AP, IB, and other examination scores are optional in our process. Please think carefully on whether you want to share these results with us in your application. You will not have the option to suppress AP, IB, and other examination scores, so if you submit them, we may use them in our review process."
https://www.swarthmore.edu/admissions-aid/standardized-testing-policy

So while PP is correct that some schools don't use them, plenty do

[Anonymous]

So who did NYU talk to? My guess the schools that took most of their kids
tufts
Wesleyan
Middlebury
Bowdoin
Etc etc etc

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, what GDS is saying is something that I’ve always known to be true and the college admissions counselors have said over and over again is true but that DCUM simply refuses to accept: AP scores don’t matter for college admissions. They just don’t. They only matter for college credit. What’s important to college admissions officials at the top colleges is that you generally take the toughest courses available to you in high school, and in public schools and many privates those courses are AP. But it’s the courses that count, not the scores on the AP exams. After all, most students take more AP courses their senior year than any other year, and colleges won’t even see the AP exam scores into after they have already made their admissions decisions.

Every time I see a “chance my kid” post here where somebody talks about their kid having all 5s I roll my eyes for this reason. They just don’t get it.

I think it’s safe to assume that a school as prestigious and successful in college admissions as GDS knows better about what is important to college admissions than the likes of you.

NYU at least will accept 3 AP scores in lieu of SATs or ACTs

https://www.nyu.edu/admissions/undergraduate-admissions/how-to-apply/standardized-tests.html

BC uses them in admission

https://www.bc.edu/content/bc-web/admission/apply/test-optional.html

Same with CWU

https://case.edu/admission/apply/requirements-enhancements

and Dartmouth

https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/glossary-question/2028-applicants-what-does-test-optional-class-2028-mean

Duke make be most explicit
"We value those scores when available as demonstrations of subject mastery to complement your academic transcripts. You should self-report these scores in your application."
https://admissions.duke.edu/faqs/

Rice is similar to Duke

https://admission.rice.edu/apply/first-year-domestic-applicants

Hopkins wants them

https://apply.jhu.edu/how-to-apply/application-deadlines-requirements/standardized-testing/

Swarthmore warns that they can help or hurt
"AP, IB, and other examination scores are optional in our process. Please think carefully on whether you want to share these results with us in your application. You will not have the option to suppress AP, IB, and other examination scores, so if you submit them, we may use them in our review process."
https://www.swarthmore.edu/admissions-aid/standardized-testing-policy

So while PP is correct that some schools don't use them, plenty do

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They had dropped the AP courses a few years ago (collusion case successfully brought by DOJ as a result of this as we all remember).

Now GDS just announced that they are dropping AP testing

"Over the last year, our team has been in conversation with dozens of college admissions offices from small liberal arts colleges to large flagship state institutions. In each of these conversations, we have confirmed what we shared with families when GDS moved away from AP courses: For college admissions, there is no advantage to taking AP tests if you attend a high school that does not offer that coursework."

Is this statement true? How about the increasing # of kids who have been applying and matriculating at UK/Ireland/Canadian schools? How about schools like NYU that actually take AP testing in lieu of SAT/ACT (optional of course).

Something about this decision sits wrong with me...they are making it even harder for the subset of students who dont want to go to SLACs.

Also what about the college credit that some schools - esp. state flagships still offer for AP tests 4+

How's that for GDS equity mission?

They asked dozens of college admission offices.

You're asking DCUM.

Who might have the better information on this?

Do you need to ask? DCUM of course.

[Anonymous]

As PP showed, many schools still use them in admissions if they are submitted. And while Harvard and Caltech may not give credit, the vast majority of schools - including top schools - do. This decision is just creating hassle for the students who are still going to take AP exams despite the koolaid peddled by the administration. Now they have to waste time figuring out where to sit for the exams and then going there to take the exams. Unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD13 is starting 8th grade and we need to apply for high schools in January. She will go to university overseas as we cannot afford the US system. I knew GDS had stopped offering AP courses but didn’t know they were still doing AP testing. What difference does dropping the testing part make?

You can afford college if you can afford private school.