The insane cost of elder care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My plan for when I hit retirement is to buy a small unit with lifetime continuing care in a retirement complex and a second house or condo somewhere either for winters (six months in Florida) or coastal New England (five months in spring to fall). When the time comes, I can sell the second property and upgrade the unit to a bigger 2-bedroom and live there full time. But I will have a foot in the door so they can't kick me out if I suddenly start declining, physically or cognitively. I am single, will always be single so no spouse to help take care of me. I want the guarantee of lifetime care no matter what happens. Yes, expensive, but I can make it happen. This plan is based on what good friends of my parents have done.

CCRCs are the way to go---good goal to be able to get in. If you can afford one, it's the best way to know you will be well taken care of. Paid entry fee to get my parents in (they have enough to qualify minus the entry fee). Best thing we ever did. They are a distance from us and refused to move closer. This way they are well taken care of and should they need more than independent living, it will seamlessly happen, and will not cost them (or us) a penny more---that's what the huge entry fee is for. Best part is, even if they "run out of money", the CCRC will still continue service---you are guaranteed to live your life there and they do NOT touch your monthly SS. Most who have run out of money are women over 95---there are 4 of them currently living there who pay nothing each month, husbands have long since died. 2 are still in independent living, the other 2 are in assisted living.

If you plan well it can happen---my parents are not wealthy. But made it happen.

Do you have any numbers to share? Which CCRCs are you talking about? What's the entrance fee? monthly cost? etc.

I'm not the PP you quoted, but I posted earlier, naming Collington in Bowie and Riderwood in Silver Spring.

There's a chart on this page with some sample pricing for Collington: https://collington.kendal.org/living-options/pricing-information/

They don't detail the "entrance fee." And you don't get all of that back. So, the monthly fee looks low because it isn't including a portion for the entrance fee.

Also, I noticed that the service level for "memory care" does not include assistance for daily grooming and toileting. That doesn't count as an amenity until you are in long term nursing care. The details on the website are lacking and of course they want you to think it's a good deal...to get you in the door.

If it diunds too good to be true, it probably is.

The entrance fees are on that chart.

My mom is currently in independent living there, so I don't yet have firsthand experience with the assisted living areas, but so far we are really happy with it. She wasn't to the point of needing help every day, but she would have recurring incidents (for instance, a UTI causing momentary dementia) that were hard for me to keep tabs on alone. Collington does things like wellness checks if you haven't opened your front door in 24 hours. Not to mention she's made tons of friends, who check in on her as well. The residents are well-educated (former) professionals for the most part, and there are tons of seminars and concerts and activities to keep people engaged. Very happy with it so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

We did not experience this. There was a small increase the second year.

Yes, there absolutely are places that are $3-5k per month for dementia.

Please provide a link to this place!

Here is one company

https://www.avalonresidentialliving.com/

There are companies like this all over the US. Numerous ones in the dmv. Half the price as larger places like Atria. You certainly don’t need to spend $10-12k per month.

These look awful. Are these Medicaid homes?

+1

Whoa. Someone bought up old homes and are claiming that they are a care plan? Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My plan for when I hit retirement is to buy a small unit with lifetime continuing care in a retirement complex and a second house or condo somewhere either for winters (six months in Florida) or coastal New England (five months in spring to fall). When the time comes, I can sell the second property and upgrade the unit to a bigger 2-bedroom and live there full time. But I will have a foot in the door so they can't kick me out if I suddenly start declining, physically or cognitively. I am single, will always be single so no spouse to help take care of me. I want the guarantee of lifetime care no matter what happens. Yes, expensive, but I can make it happen. This plan is based on what good friends of my parents have done.

CCRCs are the way to go---good goal to be able to get in. If you can afford one, it's the best way to know you will be well taken care of. Paid entry fee to get my parents in (they have enough to qualify minus the entry fee). Best thing we ever did. They are a distance from us and refused to move closer. This way they are well taken care of and should they need more than independent living, it will seamlessly happen, and will not cost them (or us) a penny more---that's what the huge entry fee is for. Best part is, even if they "run out of money", the CCRC will still continue service---you are guaranteed to live your life there and they do NOT touch your monthly SS. Most who have run out of money are women over 95---there are 4 of them currently living there who pay nothing each month, husbands have long since died. 2 are still in independent living, the other 2 are in assisted living.

If you plan well it can happen---my parents are not wealthy. But made it happen.

Do you have any numbers to share? Which CCRCs are you talking about? What's the entrance fee? monthly cost? etc.

I'm not the PP you quoted, but I posted earlier, naming Collington in Bowie and Riderwood in Silver Spring.

There's a chart on this page with some sample pricing for Collington: https://collington.kendal.org/living-options/pricing-information/

They don't detail the "entrance fee." And you don't get all of that back. So, the monthly fee looks low because it isn't including a portion for the entrance fee.

Also, I noticed that the service level for "memory care" does not include assistance for daily grooming and toileting. That doesn't count as an amenity until you are in long term nursing care. The details on the website are lacking and of course they want you to think it's a good deal...to get you in the door.

If it diunds too good to be true, it probably is.

The entrance fees are on that chart.

My mom is currently in independent living there, so I don't yet have firsthand experience with the assisted living areas, but so far we are really happy with it. She wasn't to the point of needing help every day, but she would have recurring incidents (for instance, a UTI causing momentary dementia) that were hard for me to keep tabs on alone. Collington does things like wellness checks if you haven't opened your front door in 24 hours. Not to mention she's made tons of friends, who check in on her as well. The residents are well-educated (former) professionals for the most part, and there are tons of seminars and concerts and activities to keep people engaged. Very happy with it so far.

If you have two parents sharing a 2bd, for example, would you have to pay just one entry fee for the unit and two service packages? Or two entry fees even though sharing a unit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

We did not experience this. There was a small increase the second year.

Yes, there absolutely are places that are $3-5k per month for dementia.

Please provide a link to this place!

Here is one company

https://www.avalonresidentialliving.com/

There are companies like this all over the US. Numerous ones in the dmv. Half the price as larger places like Atria. You certainly don’t need to spend $10-12k per month.

These look awful. Are these Medicaid homes?

+1

Whoa. Someone bought up old homes and are claiming that they are a care plan? Wow.

They are well maintained homes and a great option. I researched a bunch of options in and around DC. I visited large facilities and individual homes. If money were truly no object, I’d pick the $12k a month facility. But if money IS an object, there’s really nothing wrong with some of these individual homes.

One thing I learned is that a lot of the individual homes have had the same employees for many years. They seem to be able to pay their staff better than a large corporation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

We did not experience this. There was a small increase the second year.

Yes, there absolutely are places that are $3-5k per month for dementia.

Please provide a link to this place!

Here is one company

https://www.avalonresidentialliving.com/

There are companies like this all over the US. Numerous ones in the dmv. Half the price as larger places like Atria. You certainly don’t need to spend $10-12k per month.

These look awful. Are these Medicaid homes?

+1

Whoa. Someone bought up old homes and are claiming that they are a care plan? Wow.

“Someone” didn’t buy up old homes. The individual homes are run just like any other care facility. In fact, it can be a better option for some dementia patients to have fewer staff and residents. The qualifications of the staff are the same as at large facilities. They have medical care on-site, daily activities and meals are cooked on-site.

You’re passing a lot of judgement and likely have never visited one of these places or done any research. I’m so glad there are options for someone not wanting to spend $10k a month to an Atria like facility.

A lot of people are throwing around 9-12k figures for monthly care. It doesn’t make sense that care should cost this month! Especially the corporate owned facilities paying close to minimum wage. This is a highly profitable business. You don’t have to spend that kind of money if you don’t want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

That is a lot of money.

$4000x12=$48000 for just one year

Yes, and much more than the typical SS check.

The average person is in this type of care for 2 years max. Regardless it’s a fraction of the insane amounts some are spending. If you go to a facility owned by a large corporation it’s $$$$$

Do you actually have a parent in this situation?

My dad has Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. He needs around the clock care. He is in and out of the hospital and has been in and out of rehab centers.

The LTC facilities paid by Medicare are awful places. These elderly people are left there in soiled diapers for hours.

My dad gets around 40 hours of homecare from Medicaid and my mom and brother are taking care of my dad. It is a lot and they are close to their breaking point.

From my research, LTC costa 6-12k. DH earns a lot so we can afford to pay it but my dad does not want to go and says he would rather die at home. He is like a small child scared and not wanting to go to a nursing home even though he really should go.

I will probably chip in the money to get my dad care for the rest of the time. I don’t know how that will mess up the home aid hours he receives from Medicare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

That is a lot of money.

$4000x12=$48000 for just one year

Yes, and much more than the typical SS check.

The average person is in this type of care for 2 years max. Regardless it’s a fraction of the insane amounts some are spending. If you go to a facility owned by a large corporation it’s $$$$$

My mother is in a nonprofit facility. She's needed high level care for 3.5 years now. Needs help dressing, walking, transferring, toileting, bathing. No heroic measures have been taken, unless you consider preparing her food, changing her clothes, getting her in and out of bed, and getting her to the toilet to be "heroic." (Actually, I do think her caregivers are heroic, but that's not what one generally means when one talks about "heroic measures.") $3-5k/month? LMAO.

Avalon is between 4-5k
https://www.avalonresidentialliving.com/services

I do feel bad you paid much more than this. If you’re panicking I can see how you’d think you need to spend $10-12k per month.

It’s like claiming you have to spend $70k on private college. No, you can attend community college and it’s a fraction of the cost. There are people on this forum who will swear you need $450k to educate your child. There are plenty of people who don’t spend anything close to this. Similar story with elder care. Most people don’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on eldercare.

You are confusing assisted living with nursing care.

My dad needs help getting up and cannot go to the bathroom alone. He doesn’t just need 3 meals and someone to check on him and make sure he takes his meds. He needs 24/7 care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

That is a lot of money.

$4000x12=$48000 for just one year

Yes, and much more than the typical SS check.

The average person is in this type of care for 2 years max. Regardless it’s a fraction of the insane amounts some are spending. If you go to a facility owned by a large corporation it’s $$$$$

Do you actually have a parent in this situation?

My dad has Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. He needs around the clock care. He is in and out of the hospital and has been in and out of rehab centers.

The LTC facilities paid by Medicare are awful places. These elderly people are left there in soiled diapers for hours.

My dad gets around 40 hours of homecare from Medicaid and my mom and brother are taking care of my dad. It is a lot and they are close to their breaking point.

From my research, LTC costa 6-12k. DH earns a lot so we can afford to pay it but my dad does not want to go and says he would rather die at home. He is like a small child scared and not wanting to go to a nursing home even though he really should go.

I will probably chip in the money to get my dad care for the rest of the time. I don’t know how that will mess up the home aid hours he receives from Medicare.

Yes. My mom had Alzheimer’s. Advanced stage for about 2 years. We paid around $55k per year outside of DC at an individual care home which was perfectly fine.

I know you’re going to argue with me that there was something wrong with the facility or it’s not possible, but it was perfectly fine. When we toured the more expensive facilities, they looked nicer but I’m not sure the care was any better. At this point I don’t think my mom would have even been aware she was at a fancy facility. The majority of $ for the more expensive facilities are going to real estate and corporate earning. They are not paying their staff any more.

I’m very fortunate we did our homework and found a lower cost option. The good news for others is that there are options out there. You really do NOT need to spend up to 12k per month unless you have the money and it’s NBD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

That is a lot of money.

$4000x12=$48000 for just one year

Yes, and much more than the typical SS check.

The average person is in this type of care for 2 years max. Regardless it’s a fraction of the insane amounts some are spending. If you go to a facility owned by a large corporation it’s $$$$$

My mother is in a nonprofit facility. She's needed high level care for 3.5 years now. Needs help dressing, walking, transferring, toileting, bathing. No heroic measures have been taken, unless you consider preparing her food, changing her clothes, getting her in and out of bed, and getting her to the toilet to be "heroic." (Actually, I do think her caregivers are heroic, but that's not what one generally means when one talks about "heroic measures.") $3-5k/month? LMAO.

Avalon is between 4-5k
https://www.avalonresidentialliving.com/services

I do feel bad you paid much more than this. If you’re panicking I can see how you’d think you need to spend $10-12k per month.

It’s like claiming you have to spend $70k on private college. No, you can attend community college and it’s a fraction of the cost. There are people on this forum who will swear you need $450k to educate your child. There are plenty of people who don’t spend anything close to this. Similar story with elder care. Most people don’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on eldercare.

You are confusing assisted living with nursing care.

My dad needs help getting up and cannot go to the bathroom alone. He doesn’t just need 3 meals and someone to check on him and make sure he takes his meds. He needs 24/7 care.

No, I’m not. My mother had Alzheimer’s and required assistance with basic tasks. She could not under any circumstances care for herself. My dad couldn’t even care for her because she would run away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

We did not experience this. There was a small increase the second year.

Yes, there absolutely are places that are $3-5k per month for dementia.

Please provide a link to this place!

Here is one company

https://www.avalonresidentialliving.com/

There are companies like this all over the US. Numerous ones in the dmv. Half the price as larger places like Atria. You certainly don’t need to spend $10-12k per month.

These look awful. Are these Medicaid homes?

+1

Whoa. Someone bought up old homes and are claiming that they are a care plan? Wow.

“Someone” didn’t buy up old homes. The individual homes are run just like any other care facility. In fact, it can be a better option for some dementia patients to have fewer staff and residents. The qualifications of the staff are the same as at large facilities. They have medical care on-site, daily activities and meals are cooked on-site.

You’re passing a lot of judgement and likely have never visited one of these places or done any research. I’m so glad there are options for someone not wanting to spend $10k a month to an Atria like facility.

A lot of people are throwing around 9-12k figures for monthly care. It doesn’t make sense that care should cost this month! Especially the corporate owned facilities paying close to minimum wage. This is a highly profitable business. You don’t have to spend that kind of money if you don’t want to.

This is probably the equivalent of an in home daycare vs sending your kid to a large daycare or preschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My plan for when I hit retirement is to buy a small unit with lifetime continuing care in a retirement complex and a second house or condo somewhere either for winters (six months in Florida) or coastal New England (five months in spring to fall). When the time comes, I can sell the second property and upgrade the unit to a bigger 2-bedroom and live there full time. But I will have a foot in the door so they can't kick me out if I suddenly start declining, physically or cognitively. I am single, will always be single so no spouse to help take care of me. I want the guarantee of lifetime care no matter what happens. Yes, expensive, but I can make it happen. This plan is based on what good friends of my parents have done.

CCRCs are the way to go---good goal to be able to get in. If you can afford one, it's the best way to know you will be well taken care of. Paid entry fee to get my parents in (they have enough to qualify minus the entry fee). Best thing we ever did. They are a distance from us and refused to move closer. This way they are well taken care of and should they need more than independent living, it will seamlessly happen, and will not cost them (or us) a penny more---that's what the huge entry fee is for. Best part is, even if they "run out of money", the CCRC will still continue service---you are guaranteed to live your life there and they do NOT touch your monthly SS. Most who have run out of money are women over 95---there are 4 of them currently living there who pay nothing each month, husbands have long since died. 2 are still in independent living, the other 2 are in assisted living.

If you plan well it can happen---my parents are not wealthy. But made it happen.

Do you have any numbers to share? Which CCRCs are you talking about? What's the entrance fee? monthly cost? etc.

I'm not the PP you quoted, but I posted earlier, naming Collington in Bowie and Riderwood in Silver Spring.

There's a chart on this page with some sample pricing for Collington: https://collington.kendal.org/living-options/pricing-information/

They don't detail the "entrance fee." And you don't get all of that back. So, the monthly fee looks low because it isn't including a portion for the entrance fee.

Also, I noticed that the service level for "memory care" does not include assistance for daily grooming and toileting. That doesn't count as an amenity until you are in long term nursing care. The details on the website are lacking and of course they want you to think it's a good deal...to get you in the door.

If it diunds too good to be true, it probably is.

The entrance fees are on that chart.

My mom is currently in independent living there, so I don't yet have firsthand experience with the assisted living areas, but so far we are really happy with it. She wasn't to the point of needing help every day, but she would have recurring incidents (for instance, a UTI causing momentary dementia) that were hard for me to keep tabs on alone. Collington does things like wellness checks if you haven't opened your front door in 24 hours. Not to mention she's made tons of friends, who check in on her as well. The residents are well-educated (former) professionals for the most part, and there are tons of seminars and concerts and activities to keep people engaged. Very happy with it so far.

If you have two parents sharing a 2bd, for example, would you have to pay just one entry fee for the unit and two service packages? Or two entry fees even though sharing a unit?

That's a good question, and I'm sorry, I don't know the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and his brothers pay for non-licensed aides to take care of their mother round the clock in her own apartment. She has always said she did not wish to go to a nursing home. They looked for aides from her own community, speaking her own language and cooking her cuisine. They are cheaper than
"official" senior aides because they have practically no education (not sure they even graduated high school), but after a decade of shopping for my MIL, cooking, cleaning, giving massages, and helping with very complex medication needs and increasing toileting needs, they have proved themselves very caring and trustworthy people. They are supervised, of course, by the son who lives nearby.

So in the end it comes to less than 5K a month, for an advanced Parkinson's patient owning her own apartment and with one child able to physically visit once every two days.

On my side of the family, I have a relative who paid for her in-laws with dementia to stay in their own home with round the clock aides, and she mentioned that it cost less than a nursing home. It also made them happier.

so less than $7 per hour. how generous of you.

They must be paying off the books with cash

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

We did not experience this. There was a small increase the second year.

Yes, there absolutely are places that are $3-5k per month for dementia.

Please provide a link to this place!

Here is one company

https://www.avalonresidentialliving.com/

There are companies like this all over the US. Numerous ones in the dmv. Half the price as larger places like Atria. You certainly don’t need to spend $10-12k per month.

These look awful. Are these Medicaid homes?

+1

Whoa. Someone bought up old homes and are claiming that they are a care plan? Wow.

“Someone” didn’t buy up old homes. The individual homes are run just like any other care facility. In fact, it can be a better option for some dementia patients to have fewer staff and residents. The qualifications of the staff are the same as at large facilities. They have medical care on-site, daily activities and meals are cooked on-site.

You’re passing a lot of judgement and likely have never visited one of these places or done any research. I’m so glad there are options for someone not wanting to spend $10k a month to an Atria like facility.

A lot of people are throwing around 9-12k figures for monthly care. It doesn’t make sense that care should cost this month! Especially the corporate owned facilities paying close to minimum wage. This is a highly profitable business. You don’t have to spend that kind of money if you don’t want to.

Yes it’s a lot of money, but considering many parents are paying $2500+ for ~ 45-50 hour/ week of daycare which often doesn’t even include meals, 9-12k for 24/7 care including room and board doesn’t seem unreasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know I shouldn’t be shocked but the cost of care for the elderly is insane. I’m researching assisted living places. In addition to the rent, which is significant, there are extra costs for medication administration and “level 1-4 care” which is from $400-$2500 extra per month on top of rent. There are special programs for people who suffer from memory issues (not a memory care facility but a group), and other types of extra group programs. These range from $1000-$1500 more a month.

Seriously looking at $9k-$11k per month. How do people afford that??

How do you not know this? When I was 25, I asked my parents (at 50 and 51) to buy long term care insurance. I knew they had not saved enough for retirement. They did not but it. My mom has Parkinson’s. We are now screwed.

I was maxing my retirement at 21. You can easily outlive your money. This should not be news to an adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I shouldn’t be shocked but the cost of care for the elderly is insane. I’m researching assisted living places. In addition to the rent, which is significant, there are extra costs for medication administration and “level 1-4 care” which is from $400-$2500 extra per month on top of rent. There are special programs for people who suffer from memory issues (not a memory care facility but a group), and other types of extra group programs. These range from $1000-$1500 more a month.

Seriously looking at $9k-$11k per month. How do people afford that??

LTC is for the rich. The rich afford it because they have a lot of money. The rest of the population doesn't afford it. They either die or they have strong family bonds and live with family members who care for them.

My LMC parents purchased LTC because they didn't want to be a burden for the kids. They never made more than $40K total as a family. But they made it a priority. You do not have to be rich....in fact the rich dont' need it. It's the MC/LMC who need it.

This. It is the middle class that needs LTC insurance. It is not crazy expensive. Rich don’t need it.