Income based fines for traffic camera tickets in DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Also pretty sure that the DMV couldn't FORCE someone to show them their tax return. But could you imagine? The DMV having records from everyone's tax returns? There are reasons these are impossible to get.

https://www.findlaw.com/tax/federal-taxes/tax-return-confidentiality-and-disclosure-laws.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is hilariously impractical. The city will find it all but impossible to verify people’s incomes.

The city will learn this the hard way

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Also pretty sure that the DMV couldn't FORCE someone to show them their tax return. But could you imagine? The DMV having records from everyone's tax returns? There are reasons these are impossible to get.

https://www.findlaw.com/tax/federal-taxes/tax-return-confidentiality-and-disclosure-laws.html

The DMV can FORCE you to show lots of things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just curious if you have heard about this new proposed law for DC. Basically if you were to receive a ticket from a traffic camera you would get a $100 fine. If you can prove that you have a lower Household income, the price you would have to pay would be on a sliding scale. My ticket could be $100, yours could be $20.

More controversially, Mayor Bowser wants to use more than a half-billion dollars worth of revenue from a planned expansion of traffic cameras — which target speeding, red light-running, stop sign violations, and more — to help close the four-year budget gap. Under a traffic safety plan approved by the D.C. Council, the number of cameras across the city is expected to leap from 140 now to almost 500 in the coming years. But Bowser is also creating a task force to consider options of how to mitigate the cost of steep traffic camera fines on low-income drivers (including a possible sliding scale of fines depending on income) ...

I am of the camp that says "do the crime, pay the time". Why should people that break the law be treated defiantly based on income?

Thoughts?

So law and punishment apply differently?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Also pretty sure that the DMV couldn't FORCE someone to show them their tax return. But could you imagine? The DMV having records from everyone's tax returns? There are reasons these are impossible to get.

https://www.findlaw.com/tax/federal-taxes/tax-return-confidentiality-and-disclosure-laws.html

The DMV can FORCE you to show lots of things.

NP but I have a feeling providing tax records to get a license will lead the city to be sued. I don’t think they can just ask for any personal records for the hell of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Also pretty sure that the DMV couldn't FORCE someone to show them their tax return. But could you imagine? The DMV having records from everyone's tax returns? There are reasons these are impossible to get.

https://www.findlaw.com/tax/federal-taxes/tax-return-confidentiality-and-disclosure-laws.html

The DMV can FORCE you to show lots of things.

NP but I have a feeling providing tax records to get a license will lead the city to be sued. I don’t think they can just ask for any personal records for the hell of it.

+1

Think about it: the DC DMV keeping personal income records. They have to keep income to have some method to accurately assess your fines. The security breaches would be massive. It’s laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Also pretty sure that the DMV couldn't FORCE someone to show them their tax return. But could you imagine? The DMV having records from everyone's tax returns? There are reasons these are impossible to get.

https://www.findlaw.com/tax/federal-taxes/tax-return-confidentiality-and-disclosure-laws.html

The DMV can FORCE you to show lots of things.

NP but I have a feeling providing tax records to get a license will lead the city to be sued. I don’t think they can just ask for any personal records for the hell of it.

Check this out: https://dmv.dc.gov/service/obtain-a-real-id-driver-license

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Imagine have a negative income in the millions, like say a certain ex-President. Are you going to challenge his stated income? Are you going to charge him $0 for a speeding ticket?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Also pretty sure that the DMV couldn't FORCE someone to show them their tax return. But could you imagine? The DMV having records from everyone's tax returns? There are reasons these are impossible to get.

https://www.findlaw.com/tax/federal-taxes/tax-return-confidentiality-and-disclosure-laws.html

The DMV can FORCE you to show lots of things.

NP but I have a feeling providing tax records to get a license will lead the city to be sued. I don’t think they can just ask for any personal records for the hell of it.

Check this out: https://dmv.dc.gov/service/obtain-a-real-id-driver-license

Those records aren’t just for the hell of it. They are to verify your identity and place of residence. If they wanted my W2 or fingerprints? That would be excessive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Also pretty sure that the DMV couldn't FORCE someone to show them their tax return. But could you imagine? The DMV having records from everyone's tax returns? There are reasons these are impossible to get.

https://www.findlaw.com/tax/federal-taxes/tax-return-confidentiality-and-disclosure-laws.html

The DMV can FORCE you to show lots of things.

NP but I have a feeling providing tax records to get a license will lead the city to be sued. I don’t think they can just ask for any personal records for the hell of it.

Check this out: https://dmv.dc.gov/service/obtain-a-real-id-driver-license

Those records aren’t just for the hell of it. They are to verify your identity and place of residence. If they wanted my W2 or fingerprints? That would be excessive.

And your tax records would be to verify your income.

[Anonymous]

There's widespread support for this idea in Canada, apparently.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/should-wealthy-drivers-pay-higher-fines-for-speeding-many-b-c-residents-think-so-1.6328745

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Also pretty sure that the DMV couldn't FORCE someone to show them their tax return. But could you imagine? The DMV having records from everyone's tax returns? There are reasons these are impossible to get.

https://www.findlaw.com/tax/federal-taxes/tax-return-confidentiality-and-disclosure-laws.html

The DMV can FORCE you to show lots of things.

Unauthorized disclosure of tax information is a felony. If the DMV was somehow able to force people to produce a tax return (would never happen) and the DMV employee somehow indicated to anyone maybe someone sitting nearby what your income is, they could go to prison for five years. We would be asking DMV employees to take a massive amount of legal risk.

I love how this plan is being pushed by people who haven’t bothered to learn the first thing about tax or income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Also pretty sure that the DMV couldn't FORCE someone to show them their tax return. But could you imagine? The DMV having records from everyone's tax returns? There are reasons these are impossible to get.

https://www.findlaw.com/tax/federal-taxes/tax-return-confidentiality-and-disclosure-laws.html

The DMV can FORCE you to show lots of things.

Unauthorized disclosure of tax information is a felony. If the DMV was somehow able to force people to produce a tax return (would never happen) and the DMV employee somehow indicated to anyone maybe someone sitting nearby what your income is, they could go to prison for five years. We would be asking DMV employees to take a massive amount of legal risk.

I love how this plan is being pushed by people who haven’t bothered to learn the first thing about tax or income.

It wouldn't be an unauthorized disclosure. It would be an authorized disclosure. You would have the choice to not disclose. A driver's license is a privilege, not a right.

Unauthorized disclosure of a Social Security number is also against the law, yet federal law required me to provide proof of my Social Security number at the DMV, in order to get my Real ID.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also no, it's not a commuter tax. Commuters who drive and obey traffic laws don't get traffic tickets. Commuters who walk, bike, ride a scooter, take the bus, or take Metro also don't get traffic tickets. The only people who get traffic tickets are drivers who disobey traffic laws.

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

Cringe.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Please help me understand your logic. If I am ticketed for speeding, I should receive a fine. If you are ticketed for the same violation, you should receive a fine. All good on that logic? Now if I make $100K a year and get a fine of $1000 and you make $50K a year and pay $500 for the same exact traffic violation, is that fair?

BTW, the District of Columbia’s Revised Criminal Code Act of 2022 was ridiculous at best. Even President Biden said he would veto DC's crime bill.

According to the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, carjackings in the District have increased by 76% compared to this time last year. Total property crime is up 24%. And homicides are up 17%. In fact, D.C. is currently on track to have the most homicides since 1995.

The D.C. Council’s legislation eliminates almost all of the mandatory minimum sentencing requirements for violent crimes while drastically reducing the maximum penalties allowable to the courts.

BUT, the DC Counsel is considering a sliding scale of fines (based on Income/wealth) for simple speeding tickets caught on city cameras? At the same time DC is saying (basically) take it easy on the really bad guys? I just don't understand...

If you get a fine that's 1% of your income, and I get a fine that's 1% of my income for the exact same violation, then yes, that's fair.

If I get a fine that's 1% of my income, and you get a fine for the exact same violation that's only 0.5% of your income, is that fair?

No. It is not fair. If you break the law, you get a fine for minor violations or misdemeanors. Obviously, fines and jail time go up for felony convictions. The law should be blind on all accounts. Same fines for all and same jail sentences to those who commit equal crimes.

They are the same fines: 1% of the person's income.

How would the DMV get information on the person's income?

By requiring the person to provide it, with documentation. How does the DMV get information on a person's identity?

This is crazy. People who work at the DMV are not friggin accountants.

Right, they are people who check required documents to make sure the documents provide the information that is required. Nobody is asking them to be accountants.

And yet they are — that’s the problem. Determining someone’s income is hard. People have complicated situations. It’s hard for the IRS. It will be impossible for the DMV.

Also pretty sure that the DMV couldn't FORCE someone to show them their tax return. But could you imagine? The DMV having records from everyone's tax returns? There are reasons these are impossible to get.

https://www.findlaw.com/tax/federal-taxes/tax-return-confidentiality-and-disclosure-laws.html

The DMV can FORCE you to show lots of things.

Unauthorized disclosure of tax information is a felony. If the DMV was somehow able to force people to produce a tax return (would never happen) and the DMV employee somehow indicated to anyone maybe someone sitting nearby what your income is, they could go to prison for five years. We would be asking DMV employees to take a massive amount of legal risk.

I love how this plan is being pushed by people who haven’t bothered to learn the first thing about tax or income.

It wouldn't be an unauthorized disclosure. It would be an authorized disclosure. You would have the choice to not disclose. A driver's license is a privilege, not a right.

Unauthorized disclosure of a Social Security number is also against the law, yet federal law required me to provide proof of my Social Security number at the DMV, in order to get my Real ID.

The confidentiality rules around tax returns are off the charts strict and of course it would be unauthorized. No one agreed to disclose their income to some stranger who happened to overhear a conversation. This whole is idea is so silly it’s hard to believe anyone takes it seriously. DC government and policy is so bush league.