23 Baltimore City Schools Have Zero Students Proficient in Math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as a case manager in DC and have worked in Baltimore city in the past.

A couple things:

1) DCUM always talks about how these kids are growing up in homes where parents are working two jobs. Uh no. The vast majority of these parents are not working and never have. Their parents never worked. Lets get real here. The kids coming from households where parents are working two job are actually THE SUCCESS stories.
They are very rare but those parents tend to be involved in the lives of their kids. It's not PC to talk about this but there are generations of kids born to parents who don't work, have never worked and make bad decision after bad decision. Almost every pregnancy (out of wed lock and to parents with no jobs) is purposeful. I work for a medicaid
plan in DC and one of our most often requested services for young women is IVF (which we don't pay for). A lot of people are in the hell of their own making. Really, really, really bad decision making. Some of it is just cultural, some of it is due to drug and alcohol use, some is due to low IQ. People who don't have one of these things
working against the usually rise out of poverty into the working class.

2)If you really want to help people rise above poverty then their first, second, and third need is housing. You need to give people free housing. It's the biggest obstacle to upward mobility in cities, especially cities like DC. Anyone who works with the poor in DC hears requests for housing at a rate of 10 times anything else. We hear it all day, every day. If we could fix housing, we could fix just about anything. But this is very, very expensive to house people, especially in DC. And it is super expensive to house people who don't work and who will never work (frankly who don't intend to work, have mental illness so they can't work, have 4, 5, 8, 12 children and can't work, etc). I mean, in DC it's $24k-48K per year, per household. It's very tricky because most of the people who work with the poor (as nurses, case workers, social workers, etc) can't even afford to live in DC themselves.

Anyway, some very complex issues that won't be solved in our generation. But housing would be a good start.

Do you think eliminating any and all benefits connected to kids and only supplying kids with food, clothes etc at school would solve the problem?

NP. Let’s incentive lower-SES parents to give a shit. For each child with at least a C-average and no more than 5 missed days of school during a semester, you get a check for $250. If your child is also in the top 25% of their class (and no more than 5 missed days), you get an extra $250. That’s per semester, so you can get up to $1,000 per kid per year for attendance + performance.

The majority of the students that are not proficient are actually receiving As and have GPAs that are well above passing. The schools are a celebration of dysfunction at every level. There are many stories of parents being confused because their child has a 4.0 but cannot read.

How do the parents know? Aren’t they the,selves illiterate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as a case manager in DC and have worked in Baltimore city in the past.

A couple things:

1) DCUM always talks about how these kids are growing up in homes where parents are working two jobs. Uh no. The vast majority of these parents are not working and never have. Their parents never worked. Lets get real here. The kids coming from households where parents are working two job are actually THE SUCCESS stories.
They are very rare but those parents tend to be involved in the lives of their kids. It's not PC to talk about this but there are generations of kids born to parents who don't work, have never worked and make bad decision after bad decision. Almost every pregnancy (out of wed lock and to parents with no jobs) is purposeful. I work for a medicaid
plan in DC and one of our most often requested services for young women is IVF (which we don't pay for). A lot of people are in the hell of their own making. Really, really, really bad decision making. Some of it is just cultural, some of it is due to drug and alcohol use, some is due to low IQ. People who don't have one of these things
working against the usually rise out of poverty into the working class.

2)If you really want to help people rise above poverty then their first, second, and third need is housing. You need to give people free housing. It's the biggest obstacle to upward mobility in cities, especially cities like DC. Anyone who works with the poor in DC hears requests for housing at a rate of 10 times anything else. We hear it all day, every day. If we could fix housing, we could fix just about anything. But this is very, very expensive to house people, especially in DC. And it is super expensive to house people who don't work and who will never work (frankly who don't intend to work, have mental illness so they can't work, have 4, 5, 8, 12 children and can't work, etc). I mean, in DC it's $24k-48K per year, per household. It's very tricky because most of the people who work with the poor (as nurses, case workers, social workers, etc) can't even afford to live in DC themselves.

Anyway, some very complex issues that won't be solved in our generation. But housing would be a good start.

Do you think eliminating any and all benefits connected to kids and only supplying kids with food, clothes etc at school would solve the problem?

NP. Let’s incentive lower-SES parents to give a shit. For each child with at least a C-average and no more than 5 missed days of school during a semester, you get a check for $250. If your child is also in the top 25% of their class (and no more than 5 missed days), you get an extra $250. That’s per semester, so you can get up to $1,000 per kid per year for attendance + performance.

The majority of the students that are not proficient are actually receiving As and have GPAs that are well above passing. The schools are a celebration of dysfunction at every level. There are many stories of parents being confused because their child has a 4.0 but cannot read.

How do the parents know? Aren’t they the,selves illiterate?

Why would their parents be illiterate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I should buy a house there so my high achieving kid can get into Harvard.

I'm sure your white/Asian kid will greatly appreciate spending their childhood in one of America's most violent, dangerous schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work as a case manager in DC and have worked in Baltimore city in the past.

A couple things:

1) DCUM always talks about how these kids are growing up in homes where parents are working two jobs. Uh no. The vast majority of these parents are not working and never have. Their parents never worked. Lets get real here. The kids coming from households where parents are working two job are actually THE SUCCESS stories.
They are very rare but those parents tend to be involved in the lives of their kids. It's not PC to talk about this but there are generations of kids born to parents who don't work, have never worked and make bad decision after bad decision. Almost every pregnancy (out of wed lock and to parents with no jobs) is purposeful. I work for a medicaid
plan in DC and one of our most often requested services for young women is IVF (which we don't pay for). A lot of people are in the hell of their own making. Really, really, really bad decision making. Some of it is just cultural, some of it is due to drug and alcohol use, some is due to low IQ. People who don't have one of these things
working against the usually rise out of poverty into the working class.

2)If you really want to help people rise above poverty then their first, second, and third need is housing. You need to give people free housing. It's the biggest obstacle to upward mobility in cities, especially cities like DC. Anyone who works with the poor in DC hears requests for housing at a rate of 10 times anything else. We hear it all day, every day. If we could fix housing, we could fix just about anything. But this is very, very expensive to house people, especially in DC. And it is super expensive to house people who don't work and who will never work (frankly who don't intend to work, have mental illness so they can't work, have 4, 5, 8, 12 children and can't work, etc). I mean, in DC it's $24k-48K per year, per household. It's very tricky because most of the people who work with the poor (as nurses, case workers, social workers, etc) can't even afford to live in DC themselves.

Anyway, some very complex issues that won't be solved in our generation. But housing would be a good start.

Do you think eliminating any and all benefits connected to kids and only supplying kids with food, clothes etc at school would solve the problem?

NP. Let’s incentive lower-SES parents to give a shit. For each child with at least a C-average and no more than 5 missed days of school during a semester, you get a check for $250. If your child is also in the top 25% of their class (and no more than 5 missed days), you get an extra $250. That’s per semester, so you can get up to $1,000 per kid per year for attendance + performance.

The majority of the students that are not proficient are actually receiving As and have GPAs that are well above passing. The schools are a celebration of dysfunction at every level. There are many stories of parents being confused because their child has a 4.0 but cannot read.

How do the parents know? Aren’t they the,selves illiterate?

Why would their parents be illiterate?

DP. This was a point made several times upthread.

[Anonymous]

I understand that some students might be better served going into trade school. But I think some of you don’t realize that most trades still require intelligence, work ethic, and functional level of reading and math. You think kids who constantly skip school are going to be put in the work to get into a trade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand that some students might be better served going into trade school. But I think some of you don’t realize that most trades still require intelligence, work ethic, and functional level of reading and math. You think kids who constantly skip school are going to be put in the work to get into a trade?

military is a really great option for people have no discipline and structure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last one, now that I have learned to post pictures. These are all from the MD state released items/practice test 3rd grade Math test:



I think it is tricky, for a third grader. Yes, of course, I think it would be wonderful for all third graders to be able to answer a question like this that shows they are truly able to understand the application of math. Instead of just asking a simple question: "What is the area of this rectangle?"

But - the fact that many students aren't able to answer questions like this doesn't mean they are learning nothing in math. Just that these questions are pretty tricky for them to understand.

I think it's important to point out that a lot of these word problems were made because of allegations from marxists that math is somehow racist against black people - that they can't understand abstract concepts (which is in itself an extremely racist viewpoint but one pushed by many black civil rights advocates). But of course they will understand things like "tyrone has five mixtapes and lost two" or "uncle jim is painting a garage." It is, however, ironic that the black kids in baltimore schools cannot even answer the contextualized questions that the education marxists have forced into the curriculum

Dude, you need to brush up on your Marxism before you open your mouth. Karl Marx did not give a crap about math - or its influence on black people. Geez.

No, "dude," YOU need to brush up. Critical theory, which has spawned ideas like intersectionality and other racial justice theories, originates to a large extent in marxist thought. I said marxist because people like you have no idea what critical social theory is

And you clearly don't understand it at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand that some students might be better served going into trade school. But I think some of you don’t realize that most trades still require intelligence, work ethic, and functional level of reading and math. You think kids who constantly skip school are going to be put in the work to get into a trade?

They will when they see a realistic path. Look kids aren't stupid. They realize they aren't going to use most of the stuff taught in a traditional high school in their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last one, now that I have learned to post pictures. These are all from the MD state released items/practice test 3rd grade Math test:



I think it is tricky, for a third grader. Yes, of course, I think it would be wonderful for all third graders to be able to answer a question like this that shows they are truly able to understand the application of math. Instead of just asking a simple question: "What is the area of this rectangle?"

But - the fact that many students aren't able to answer questions like this doesn't mean they are learning nothing in math. Just that these questions are pretty tricky for them to understand.

I think it's important to point out that a lot of these word problems were made because of allegations from marxists that math is somehow racist against black people - that they can't understand abstract concepts (which is in itself an extremely racist viewpoint but one pushed by many black civil rights advocates). But of course they will understand things like "tyrone has five mixtapes and lost two" or "uncle jim is painting a garage." It is, however, ironic that the black kids in baltimore schools cannot even answer the contextualized questions that the education marxists have forced into the curriculum

This question is somewhat elitist. How many people have garages or paint the floors? I can see why kids can't relate to these problems. They don't make sense.

Noce try -- but no. the problem isn't that some kids don't have garages or paint floors.

I'm the teacher who posted the questions and said that they were too word dependent and convoluted.

I tried the above word problem out on my third grade ESOL students today, individually. These students are pretty good students, academically, IMO.

None of them were able to correctly answer the area of the garage floor question. They didn't understand what was being asked. When I asked "what does the amount of space" mea? Point to that part of the picture ... they pointed to the sides of the rectangle.

But unfortunately they also didn't know how to calculate the area of the square, even when I explained - I said "The question is asking you - what's the area of the rectangle? can you tell that from the lenth of the sides?"

No they could not.

They could finally do it, when I drew all the squares in as a grid, and showed them how to count them all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last one, now that I have learned to post pictures. These are all from the MD state released items/practice test 3rd grade Math test:



I think it is tricky, for a third grader. Yes, of course, I think it would be wonderful for all third graders to be able to answer a question like this that shows they are truly able to understand the application of math. Instead of just asking a simple question: "What is the area of this rectangle?"

But - the fact that many students aren't able to answer questions like this doesn't mean they are learning nothing in math. Just that these questions are pretty tricky for them to understand.

I think it's important to point out that a lot of these word problems were made because of allegations from marxists that math is somehow racist against black people - that they can't understand abstract concepts (which is in itself an extremely racist viewpoint but one pushed by many black civil rights advocates). But of course they will understand things like "tyrone has five mixtapes and lost two" or "uncle jim is painting a garage." It is, however, ironic that the black kids in baltimore schools cannot even answer the contextualized questions that the education marxists have forced into the curriculum

This question is somewhat elitist. How many people have garages or paint the floors? I can see why kids can't relate to these problems. They don't make sense.

Noce try -- but no. the problem isn't that some kids don't have garages or paint floors.

I'm the teacher who posted the questions and said that they were too word dependent and convoluted.

I tried the above word problem out on my third grade ESOL students today, individually. These students are pretty good students, academically, IMO.

None of them were able to correctly answer the area of the garage floor question. They didn't understand what was being asked. When I asked "what does the amount of space" mea? Point to that part of the picture ... they pointed to the sides of the rectangle.

But unfortunately they also didn't know how to calculate the area of the square, even when I explained - I said "The question is asking you - what's the area of the rectangle? can you tell that from the lenth of the sides?"

No they could not.

They could finally do it, when I drew all the squares in as a grid, and showed them how to count them all.

Just think of all these questions--if you have to process them in another language than your own, remember what things like "garage floors" are if you've never had one, connect that the word "space" should connect to a formula for calculating area, and then calculate it. And then do question after question on that? For over an hour at a time. The tests are often not written the best because it's hard to design tests that serve different age groups/cultural backgrounds, have decent psychometric properties etc. The level that is considered "proficient" is often arbitrary and has been frequently changed (in VA for instance, the SOL bar was considerably raised in the past decade making people think scores have gone down when actually the measure went up in difficulty). Students may not be motivated to perform on a test that has absolutely zero impact on them individually--they don't receive a grade for it or any kind of credit--schools are not allowed to do that. A fundamental analysis of motivation would say--a ton of kids might rather not try at all so then they can say if they got a low score that they just wrote in whatever. Better than working hard on something that has no credit and then doing poorly on it. Basic work-saving and face-saving 101.

Yet people blithely assume that the tests are telling something "true" about proficiency. I'd rather look at their ongoing classwork and trust teachers' judgment. But people think somehow they are going to get "objective" data by these testing means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last one, now that I have learned to post pictures. These are all from the MD state released items/practice test 3rd grade Math test:



I think it is tricky, for a third grader. Yes, of course, I think it would be wonderful for all third graders to be able to answer a question like this that shows they are truly able to understand the application of math. Instead of just asking a simple question: "What is the area of this rectangle?"

But - the fact that many students aren't able to answer questions like this doesn't mean they are learning nothing in math. Just that these questions are pretty tricky for them to understand.

I think it's important to point out that a lot of these word problems were made because of allegations from marxists that math is somehow racist against black people - that they can't understand abstract concepts (which is in itself an extremely racist viewpoint but one pushed by many black civil rights advocates). But of course they will understand things like "tyrone has five mixtapes and lost two" or "uncle jim is painting a garage." It is, however, ironic that the black kids in baltimore schools cannot even answer the contextualized questions that the education marxists have forced into the curriculum

This question is somewhat elitist. How many people have garages or paint the floors? I can see why kids can't relate to these problems. They don't make sense.

Noce try -- but no. the problem isn't that some kids don't have garages or paint floors.

I'm the teacher who posted the questions and said that they were too word dependent and convoluted.

I tried the above word problem out on my third grade ESOL students today, individually. These students are pretty good students, academically, IMO.

None of them were able to correctly answer the area of the garage floor question. They didn't understand what was being asked. When I asked "what does the amount of space" mea? Point to that part of the picture ... they pointed to the sides of the rectangle.

But unfortunately they also didn't know how to calculate the area of the square, even when I explained - I said "The question is asking you - what's the area of the rectangle? can you tell that from the lenth of the sides?"

No they could not.

They could finally do it, when I drew all the squares in as a grid, and showed them how to count them all.

Just think of all these questions--if you have to process them in another language than your own, remember what things like "garage floors" are if you've never had one, connect that the word "space" should connect to a formula for calculating area, and then calculate it. And then do question after question on that? For over an hour at a time. The tests are often not written the best because it's hard to design tests that serve different age groups/cultural backgrounds, have decent psychometric properties etc. The level that is considered "proficient" is often arbitrary and has been frequently changed (in VA for instance, the SOL bar was considerably raised in the past decade making people think scores have gone down when actually the measure went up in difficulty). Students may not be motivated to perform on a test that has absolutely zero impact on them individually--they don't receive a grade for it or any kind of credit--schools are not allowed to do that. A fundamental analysis of motivation would say--a ton of kids might rather not try at all so then they can say if they got a low score that they just wrote in whatever. Better than working hard on something that has no credit and then doing poorly on it. Basic work-saving and face-saving 101.

Yet people blithely assume that the tests are telling something "true" about proficiency. I'd rather look at their ongoing classwork and trust teachers' judgment. But people think somehow they are going to get "objective" data by these testing means.

The majority of the students are not foreign. They were born here to parents born here.

And even for those that are, you’re not making a case for easier exams. You’re actually making a case for separating out the immigrant kids until they have adequate language skills, the same as they do in places like Germany.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last one, now that I have learned to post pictures. These are all from the MD state released items/practice test 3rd grade Math test:



I think it is tricky, for a third grader. Yes, of course, I think it would be wonderful for all third graders to be able to answer a question like this that shows they are truly able to understand the application of math. Instead of just asking a simple question: "What is the area of this rectangle?"

But - the fact that many students aren't able to answer questions like this doesn't mean they are learning nothing in math. Just that these questions are pretty tricky for them to understand.

I think it's important to point out that a lot of these word problems were made because of allegations from marxists that math is somehow racist against black people - that they can't understand abstract concepts (which is in itself an extremely racist viewpoint but one pushed by many black civil rights advocates). But of course they will understand things like "tyrone has five mixtapes and lost two" or "uncle jim is painting a garage." It is, however, ironic that the black kids in baltimore schools cannot even answer the contextualized questions that the education marxists have forced into the curriculum

This question is somewhat elitist. How many people have garages or paint the floors? I can see why kids can't relate to these problems. They don't make sense.

Noce try -- but no. the problem isn't that some kids don't have garages or paint floors.

I'm the teacher who posted the questions and said that they were too word dependent and convoluted.

I tried the above word problem out on my third grade ESOL students today, individually. These students are pretty good students, academically, IMO.

None of them were able to correctly answer the area of the garage floor question. They didn't understand what was being asked. When I asked "what does the amount of space" mea? Point to that part of the picture ... they pointed to the sides of the rectangle.

But unfortunately they also didn't know how to calculate the area of the square, even when I explained - I said "The question is asking you - what's the area of the rectangle? can you tell that from the lenth of the sides?"

No they could not.

They could finally do it, when I drew all the squares in as a grid, and showed them how to count them all.

Just think of all these questions--if you have to process them in another language than your own, remember what things like "garage floors" are if you've never had one, connect that the word "space" should connect to a formula for calculating area, and then calculate it. And then do question after question on that? For over an hour at a time. The tests are often not written the best because it's hard to design tests that serve different age groups/cultural backgrounds, have decent psychometric properties etc. The level that is considered "proficient" is often arbitrary and has been frequently changed (in VA for instance, the SOL bar was considerably raised in the past decade making people think scores have gone down when actually the measure went up in difficulty). Students may not be motivated to perform on a test that has absolutely zero impact on them individually--they don't receive a grade for it or any kind of credit--schools are not allowed to do that. A fundamental analysis of motivation would say--a ton of kids might rather not try at all so then they can say if they got a low score that they just wrote in whatever. Better than working hard on something that has no credit and then doing poorly on it. Basic work-saving and face-saving 101.

Yet people blithely assume that the tests are telling something "true" about proficiency. I'd rather look at their ongoing classwork and trust teachers' judgment. But people think somehow they are going to get "objective" data by these testing means.

The majority of the students are not foreign. They were born here to parents born here.

And even for those that are, you’re not making a case for easier exams. You’re actually making a case for separating out the immigrant kids until they have adequate language skills, the same as they do in places like Germany.

I'm not making the case for anything except for the claim that I don't trust these tests as a measure of proficiency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last one, now that I have learned to post pictures. These are all from the MD state released items/practice test 3rd grade Math test:



I think it is tricky, for a third grader. Yes, of course, I think it would be wonderful for all third graders to be able to answer a question like this that shows they are truly able to understand the application of math. Instead of just asking a simple question: "What is the area of this rectangle?"

But - the fact that many students aren't able to answer questions like this doesn't mean they are learning nothing in math. Just that these questions are pretty tricky for them to understand.

I think it's important to point out that a lot of these word problems were made because of allegations from marxists that math is somehow racist against black people - that they can't understand abstract concepts (which is in itself an extremely racist viewpoint but one pushed by many black civil rights advocates). But of course they will understand things like "tyrone has five mixtapes and lost two" or "uncle jim is painting a garage." It is, however, ironic that the black kids in baltimore schools cannot even answer the contextualized questions that the education marxists have forced into the curriculum

This question is somewhat elitist. How many people have garages or paint the floors? I can see why kids can't relate to these problems. They don't make sense.

Noce try -- but no. the problem isn't that some kids don't have garages or paint floors.

I'm the teacher who posted the questions and said that they were too word dependent and convoluted.

I tried the above word problem out on my third grade ESOL students today, individually. These students are pretty good students, academically, IMO.

None of them were able to correctly answer the area of the garage floor question. They didn't understand what was being asked. When I asked "what does the amount of space" mea? Point to that part of the picture ... they pointed to the sides of the rectangle.

But unfortunately they also didn't know how to calculate the area of the square, even when I explained - I said "The question is asking you - what's the area of the rectangle? can you tell that from the lenth of the sides?"

No they could not.

They could finally do it, when I drew all the squares in as a grid, and showed them how to count them all.

Just think of all these questions--if you have to process them in another language than your own, remember what things like "garage floors" are if you've never had one, connect that the word "space" should connect to a formula for calculating area, and then calculate it. And then do question after question on that? For over an hour at a time. The tests are often not written the best because it's hard to design tests that serve different age groups/cultural backgrounds, have decent psychometric properties etc. The level that is considered "proficient" is often arbitrary and has been frequently changed (in VA for instance, the SOL bar was considerably raised in the past decade making people think scores have gone down when actually the measure went up in difficulty). Students may not be motivated to perform on a test that has absolutely zero impact on them individually--they don't receive a grade for it or any kind of credit--schools are not allowed to do that. A fundamental analysis of motivation would say--a ton of kids might rather not try at all so then they can say if they got a low score that they just wrote in whatever. Better than working hard on something that has no credit and then doing poorly on it. Basic work-saving and face-saving 101.

Yet people blithely assume that the tests are telling something "true" about proficiency. I'd rather look at their ongoing classwork and trust teachers' judgment. But people think somehow they are going to get "objective" data by these testing means.

The majority of the students are not foreign. They were born here to parents born here.

And even for those that are, you’re not making a case for easier exams. You’re actually making a case for separating out the immigrant kids until they have adequate language skills, the same as they do in places like Germany.

I'm not making the case for anything except for the claim that I don't trust these tests as a measure of proficiency.

How many people who were born here have garage floors? I was born here, but I never had one and I wouldn't think you would be painting one if I did. If I were in 3rd grade, half my brain would be wondering why someone would be painting the floor their car drives on and then forget the question. And I have a math degree!

[Anonymous]

I feel that if these students want to become proficient in Math, then they can be helped. If they don't care then they are lost cause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel that if these students want to become proficient in Math, then they can be helped. If they don't care then they are lost cause.

I think you have to help students want to become proficient in math--help them see its relevance and their own potential. There are tons of good examples where this has been done. I also don't think this test tells you whether or not they are proficient in math.