If teachers are leaving left and right, is it the principal's fault?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

You really, really don’t want to know what goes on behind the curtain. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

I know, but if the public found out, hopefully there would be an outcry and change. For starters, a completely different school board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

Oh wow. This is my experience, 100%, down to the chime.

I’m retiring from full time teaching a few years earlier than I had planned.

Are chimes the latest fad? When I was teaching it was behavior contracts. You had to write out a document with a list of things the student would agree to do, and then have them sign it. Like signing a document saying they wouldn't stand up and start dancing on their chair in the middle of class was actually going to have any effect on a student who would do that in the first place. And it didn't. But it wasted a whole lot of your time writing that thing up.

For us the chime is part of being a responsive classroom school.

Same.
Theoretically the students are supposed to stop what they are doing and listen to the teacher.

Yes - “theoretically.” Have you actually tried this in practice? After the first few times, the kids ignore it completely. But do go on about “responsive classroom” nonsense.
DP

PP here.
Yes, I have actually tried it. Over and over. I teach an ES grade. That’s why I wrote “theoretically”. It works for the teachers in the demo videos.

Gotta push back on the RC hate. I've used the chime for 15 years now and it works in high and low income situations when its normed school wide. Sorry it doesn't work for you

I don’t know what RC stands for, but you need to gain some perspective and empathy. I feel sorry for your colleagues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

You really, really don’t want to know what goes on behind the curtain. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

I know, but if the public found out, hopefully there would be an outcry and change. For starters, a completely different school board.

I don’t know. I feel like the whole management process needs to change with more teaching teachers having leadership roles or at least vetoes or “votes.” Yeah, rigged surveys don’t count. So many of the people we work for are so incompetent, it kills me. Too many Ed.D programs are 1. Nowhere near as rigorous as they should be and 2. are churning out some class act idiots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

You really, really don’t want to know what goes on behind the curtain. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

I know, but if the public found out, hopefully there would be an outcry and change. For starters, a completely different school board.

I don’t know. I feel like the whole management process needs to change with more teaching teachers having leadership roles or at least vetoes or “votes.” Yeah, rigged surveys don’t count. So many of the people we work for are so incompetent, it kills me. Too many Ed.D programs are 1. Nowhere near as rigorous as they should be and 2. are churning out some class act idiots.

This! I left teaching in public schools after 15 years of THIS! I couldn’t handle working for people whose entire purpose seemed to be making my job harder and less effective.

I now work in a private where administrative roles are shared among practicing teachers. It’s heaven. No more listening to “the latest and greatest” idea coming from someone who left the stress of the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

Oh wow. This is my experience, 100%, down to the chime.

I’m retiring from full time teaching a few years earlier than I had planned.

Are chimes the latest fad? When I was teaching it was behavior contracts. You had to write out a document with a list of things the student would agree to do, and then have them sign it. Like signing a document saying they wouldn't stand up and start dancing on their chair in the middle of class was actually going to have any effect on a student who would do that in the first place. And it didn't. But it wasted a whole lot of your time writing that thing up.

For us the chime is part of being a responsive classroom school.

Same.
Theoretically the students are supposed to stop what they are doing and listen to the teacher.

Yes - “theoretically.” Have you actually tried this in practice? After the first few times, the kids ignore it completely. But do go on about “responsive classroom” nonsense.
DP

PP here.
Yes, I have actually tried it. Over and over. I teach an ES grade. That’s why I wrote “theoretically”. It works for the teachers in the demo videos.

Gotta push back on the RC hate. I've used the chime for 15 years now and it works in high and low income situations when its normed school wide. Sorry it doesn't work for you

I was a PP who thinks chimes are silly, but I loved RC when I was teaching. Chimes were not a thing, then. It must be newer. However, I had another silent method of getting attention (I am a quiet talker with a small voice and just don't have whatever it takes to yell), and it worked well up until 6th grade, when nothing works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

Oh wow. This is my experience, 100%, down to the chime.

I’m retiring from full time teaching a few years earlier than I had planned.

Are chimes the latest fad? When I was teaching it was behavior contracts. You had to write out a document with a list of things the student would agree to do, and then have them sign it. Like signing a document saying they wouldn't stand up and start dancing on their chair in the middle of class was actually going to have any effect on a student who would do that in the first place. And it didn't. But it wasted a whole lot of your time writing that thing up.

For us the chime is part of being a responsive classroom school.

Same.
Theoretically the students are supposed to stop what they are doing and listen to the teacher.

Yes - “theoretically.” Have you actually tried this in practice? After the first few times, the kids ignore it completely. But do go on about “responsive classroom” nonsense.
DP

PP here.
Yes, I have actually tried it. Over and over. I teach an ES grade. That’s why I wrote “theoretically”. It works for the teachers in the demo videos.

Gotta push back on the RC hate. I've used the chime for 15 years now and it works in high and low income situations when its normed school wide. Sorry it doesn't work for you

I don’t know what RC stands for, but you need to gain some perspective and empathy. I feel sorry for your colleagues.

Responsive Classroom. It is an approach to behavior management that is supposed to pay more attention to student emotional needs and put less emphasis on bribes, threats, and punishments. It works very well as long as teachers can accept that the goal is not to completely control student behavior. The main issue is that it's a philosophy and a culture, and forcing teachers to check all the boxes without having buy-in for or understanding of the whole philosophy means that it won't be as effective and many teachers won't be able to use it effectively because they don't really know what it is RC is supposed to be doing. Like everything else in education, it's a great idea that can still have poor implementation at the school level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

Oh wow. This is my experience, 100%, down to the chime.

I’m retiring from full time teaching a few years earlier than I had planned.

Are chimes the latest fad? When I was teaching it was behavior contracts. You had to write out a document with a list of things the student would agree to do, and then have them sign it. Like signing a document saying they wouldn't stand up and start dancing on their chair in the middle of class was actually going to have any effect on a student who would do that in the first place. And it didn't. But it wasted a whole lot of your time writing that thing up.

For us the chime is part of being a responsive classroom school.

Same.
Theoretically the students are supposed to stop what they are doing and listen to the teacher.

Yes - “theoretically.” Have you actually tried this in practice? After the first few times, the kids ignore it completely. But do go on about “responsive classroom” nonsense.
DP

PP here.
Yes, I have actually tried it. Over and over. I teach an ES grade. That’s why I wrote “theoretically”. It works for the teachers in the demo videos.

Gotta push back on the RC hate. I've used the chime for 15 years now and it works in high and low income situations when its normed school wide. Sorry it doesn't work for you

I don’t know what RC stands for, but you need to gain some perspective and empathy. I feel sorry for your colleagues.

Responsive Classroom. It is an approach to behavior management that is supposed to pay more attention to student emotional needs and put less emphasis on bribes, threats, and punishments. It works very well as long as teachers can accept that the goal is not to completely control student behavior. The main issue is that it's a philosophy and a culture, and forcing teachers to check all the boxes without having buy-in for or understanding of the whole philosophy means that it won't be as effective and many teachers won't be able to use it effectively because they don't really know what it is RC is supposed to be doing. Like everything else in education, it's a great idea that can still have poor implementation at the school level.

Yes. We are RC but me and many others have never been formally trained. And a huge piece of it is teacher language and it’s a huge shift in thinking and I hear non RC all the time in our school so a school has to be serious about getting people on board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

I've been expose-ing fcps on this board since I quit 10 years ago. It's pointless. The system is so broken there. Parents have no idea, and the county likes it that way. If you read through these forums you'll see many many teachers posting the same things I have been saying. It's not a secret. But it's so bureaucratic that nothing can be changed. The whole top-down structure where all the decisions are made by people who are basically politicians and haven't been in a classroom in 30 years, and teachers are powerless.

Not sure why you are targeting RC though - it's just one of a million programs that gets adopted for a while and then replaced with something new a few years later. It's one of the better programs FCPS has, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

Oh wow. This is my experience, 100%, down to the chime.

I’m retiring from full time teaching a few years earlier than I had planned.

Are chimes the latest fad? When I was teaching it was behavior contracts. You had to write out a document with a list of things the student would agree to do, and then have them sign it. Like signing a document saying they wouldn't stand up and start dancing on their chair in the middle of class was actually going to have any effect on a student who would do that in the first place. And it didn't. But it wasted a whole lot of your time writing that thing up.

For us the chime is part of being a responsive classroom school.

Same.
Theoretically the students are supposed to stop what they are doing and listen to the teacher.

Yes - “theoretically.” Have you actually tried this in practice? After the first few times, the kids ignore it completely. But do go on about “responsive classroom” nonsense.
DP

PP here.
Yes, I have actually tried it. Over and over. I teach an ES grade. That’s why I wrote “theoretically”. It works for the teachers in the demo videos.

Gotta push back on the RC hate. I've used the chime for 15 years now and it works in high and low income situations when its normed school wide. Sorry it doesn't work for you

I don’t know what RC stands for, but you need to gain some perspective and empathy. I feel sorry for your colleagues.

Responsive Classroom. It is an approach to behavior management that is supposed to pay more attention to student emotional needs and put less emphasis on bribes, threats, and punishments. It works very well as long as teachers can accept that the goal is not to completely control student behavior. The main issue is that it's a philosophy and a culture, and forcing teachers to check all the boxes without having buy-in for or understanding of the whole philosophy means that it won't be as effective and many teachers won't be able to use it effectively because they don't really know what it is RC is supposed to be doing. Like everything else in education, it's a great idea that can still have poor implementation at the school level.

Yes. We are RC but me and many others have never been formally trained. And a huge piece of it is teacher language and it’s a huge shift in thinking and I hear non RC all the time in our school so a school has to be serious about getting people on board.

Yes, that's the problem in a nutshell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

You really, really don’t want to know what goes on behind the curtain. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

I know, but if the public found out, hopefully there would be an outcry and change. For starters, a completely different school board.

The school board has nothing to do with it. I don't even think they know what's going on in the schools. It's Central Administration that is the problem and always has been. This is not a new problem - I taught through several different school boards and saw the political parties and ideologies change, and none of that filters down even the tiniest bit to the classroom. Look elsewhere. Not everything is about politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

I just popped on this thread and read the last 10 posts. Oh my goodness! Teachers, I feel so bad fir you that you are desling with this kind of hell. Damn. No one wants to work under those kinds of circumstances. It makes me very angry that good teachers are being run out of the profession.

Question: instead of leaving teaching altogether, would your job change for the better if you moved to a different/higher income school? I ask b/c my kids (HS) do not see that kind of disruption and disrespect in their classes at one of the HS that has a smaller number of needy kids. I know that in the HS where we used to live (also FCPS, but more diverse), I heard multiple reports that you MUST avoid the reg level classes b/c the the majority of kids in them don't want to learn, and they literally harass and terrorize the teachers. In some cases, running multiple teachers out by xmas break. So, my impression is that the job can vary significantly in different high schools.

Could you change schools and stay in the profession?

That claim is far overblown. Poorer schools in FCPS have their own unique issues but they are absolutely not the hellscape they are slandered to be. Most of my colleagues who are ESOL teachers love working with that demographic and would not consider teaching outside of ESOL. Of course, everyone's personal experience is different.

You can check posted vacancies for yourself as proof that the diverse schools aren't disproportionately in need of teachers. MVHS, Justice, and Falls Church don't even have a single vacancy as of this moment.

I've said this 100 times on this board and will say it again. I was an ESOL teacher in a high poverty school. The problem was not the kids and not the parents. I loved my students - or at least most of them. The problem was the county and the administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

I just popped on this thread and read the last 10 posts. Oh my goodness! Teachers, I feel so bad fir you that you are desling with this kind of hell. Damn. No one wants to work under those kinds of circumstances. It makes me very angry that good teachers are being run out of the profession.

Question: instead of leaving teaching altogether, would your job change for the better if you moved to a different/higher income school? I ask b/c my kids (HS) do not see that kind of disruption and disrespect in their classes at one of the HS that has a smaller number of needy kids. I know that in the HS where we used to live (also FCPS, but more diverse), I heard multiple reports that you MUST avoid the reg level classes b/c the the majority of kids in them don't want to learn, and they literally harass and terrorize the teachers. In some cases, running multiple teachers out by xmas break. So, my impression is that the job can vary significantly in different high schools.

Could you change schools and stay in the profession?

That claim is far overblown. Poorer schools in FCPS have their own unique issues but they are absolutely not the hellscape they are slandered to be. Most of my colleagues who are ESOL teachers love working with that demographic and would not consider teaching outside of ESOL. Of course, everyone's personal experience is different.

You can check posted vacancies for yourself as proof that the diverse schools aren't disproportionately in need of teachers. MVHS, Justice, and Falls Church don't even have a single vacancy as of this moment.

I've said this 100 times on this board and will say it again. I was an ESOL teacher in a high poverty school. The problem was not the kids and not the parents. I loved my students - or at least most of them. The problem was the county and the administration.

Yeah, well teaching ESOL is not a bad gig. Also ten years ago, the kids were better behaved. Teaching SPED or GenEd these days is a beast. Still, I agree that the county and the administration are the worst parts of the job. My experience with the bloated administration at FCPS - these people generate useless work, come up with bullshit initiatives that never work, court the favor of the parents like the politicians they are, and micromanage people much more skilled and knowledgeable and useful (and sometimes much more educated) than they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

You really, really don’t want to know what goes on behind the curtain. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

I know, but if the public found out, hopefully there would be an outcry and change. For starters, a completely different school board.

The school board has nothing to do with it. I don't even think they know what's going on in the schools. It's Central Administration that is the problem and always has been. This is not a new problem - I taught through several different school boards and saw the political parties and ideologies change, and none of that filters down even the tiniest bit to the classroom. Look elsewhere. Not everything is about politics.

Yeah, I agree. If the Board saw fit to do a thorough audit of practices at Gatehouse, that would be a game changer, but I imagine no one wants to shake the tree to see what falls out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

I just popped on this thread and read the last 10 posts. Oh my goodness! Teachers, I feel so bad fir you that you are desling with this kind of hell. Damn. No one wants to work under those kinds of circumstances. It makes me very angry that good teachers are being run out of the profession.

Question: instead of leaving teaching altogether, would your job change for the better if you moved to a different/higher income school? I ask b/c my kids (HS) do not see that kind of disruption and disrespect in their classes at one of the HS that has a smaller number of needy kids. I know that in the HS where we used to live (also FCPS, but more diverse), I heard multiple reports that you MUST avoid the reg level classes b/c the the majority of kids in them don't want to learn, and they literally harass and terrorize the teachers. In some cases, running multiple teachers out by xmas break. So, my impression is that the job can vary significantly in different high schools.

Could you change schools and stay in the profession?

That claim is far overblown. Poorer schools in FCPS have their own unique issues but they are absolutely not the hellscape they are slandered to be. Most of my colleagues who are ESOL teachers love working with that demographic and would not consider teaching outside of ESOL. Of course, everyone's personal experience is different.

You can check posted vacancies for yourself as proof that the diverse schools aren't disproportionately in need of teachers. MVHS, Justice, and Falls Church don't even have a single vacancy as of this moment.

I've said this 100 times on this board and will say it again. I was an ESOL teacher in a high poverty school. The problem was not the kids and not the parents. I loved my students - or at least most of them. The problem was the county and the administration.

And that is YOUR experience, sometimes the parents and/or kids’ behavior is why some teacher dread going into work. One bad parent can ruin the year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

You really, really don’t want to know what goes on behind the curtain. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

I know, but if the public found out, hopefully there would be an outcry and change. For starters, a completely different school board.

I don’t know. I feel like the whole management process needs to change with more teaching teachers having leadership roles or at least vetoes or “votes.” Yeah, rigged surveys don’t count. So many of the people we work for are so incompetent, it kills me. Too many Ed.D programs are 1. Nowhere near as rigorous as they should be and 2. are churning out some class act idiots.

This! I left teaching in public schools after 15 years of THIS! I couldn’t handle working for people whose entire purpose seemed to be making my job harder and less effective.

I now work in a private where administrative roles are shared among practicing teachers. It’s heaven. No more listening to “the latest and greatest” idea coming from someone who left the stress of the classroom.

DP. This sounds fantastic.