Donnie Dumptruck says Mar-A-Lago's been searched by the FBI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Trump have the authority to “declassify” anything he wants?

If he follows the process of having it properly processed, inventoried, reviewed, cleared and remarked per IC, NARA etc then yes.

But if the question is can he at any time wave a magic wand over a box of documents and declare it declassified, then the answer is absolutely not.

The idea that a bunch of bean counters get to usurp presidential powers is absurd. How do you stop said bean counters from simply not following through deliberately?

I understand that you are trying to be provocative. Nonetheless, people who work for the U.S. government (bean counters) follow the directives given by superiors. It’s really not because they are afraid of jail, job loss, or other consequences. It’s because that generally they want to serve our country. They take very seriously their oath to defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. And if they feel they cannot carry out a directive, they will resign. If they feel the directive is illegal, they have a duty to report that to the IG.

So, there is no usurping the power of POTUS. Sometimes POTUS just doesn’t get to do what he wants. Because that is what is best for our country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two points just made on CNN that are worth noting.

1. When the FBI reviews these documents and materials, they will not just be reviewing the substance of the documents. They will likely be fingerprinting the documents to determine who may have viewed them.

2. The existence of the documents alone would not be enough to support a finding of probable cause under the Espionage Act, so this warrant probably signals that DOJ has other evidence (probably from a witness or a written communication they obtained) of intent to share this information in a way that is contrary to national security interests. The warrant itself is only the tip of the iceberg here.

The second paragraph doesn’t make sense. Probable cause can be established by a showing that materials subject to the Espionage Act were in the possession and control of a person but are now unaccounted for and not otherwise under positive control by NARA and/or those materials are known to be located at a specified unsecured location without legal authority. The FBI obtains warrants on this basis all the time when government employees or contractors are involved in mishandling classified or confidential material.

It’s also quite possible that there was a sudden sense of urgency triggered by information obtained through intelligence, surveillance or a witness/source.

Warrants, yes, but I doubt a random employee will be CHARGED with espionage if they mistakenly bring something home they shouldn't have, absent all other proof.
Now in this case, Trump knowingly brought these documents home. But doesn't a charge of espionage need evidence of disseminating it to others? Or intent of same?

Nobody said anything about mistakenly — which is near impodddible to do. That’s blatantly moving the goalposts. Go read 18 USC sec. 793. It is not hard to parse.

Right. My question is: Will Trump be charged with espionage even if law enforcement cannot find any proof he intended to share them? Is sole possession of these docs sufficient since he should have known it was illegal to do so?

Also, if fingerprints of his employees are found on them, will they be charged too?

I bet this brings down the whole Trump family, his legal team, everyone.

How many layers of fingerprints can be read on a single document do you think?

If the fingerprints of his employees belong to foreign nationals who aren’t just cheap summer labor but are actually intelligence from those other countries, yes, they’ll be locked up here or deported or whatever they do with those people.

Dear LORD

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/may/16/james-risch/does-president-have-ability-declassify-anything-an/

The article tries to spin it six ways from Sunday, but the fact is, the documents are unclassified. What Trump had with him down there were documents about Russia-gate with names. The DOJ quietly gave Klinesmith the ability to practice law back. He had lost it due to altering an email used to get the FISAs re: spying at Trump tower. This is why the warrant was so darn broad. What the DOJ/FBI probably wants are documents that could potentially implicate them, because they know the mid-terms could be hell for them politically and that there would be resulting investigations by a Republican House.

But you can't declassify documents after leaving office because then you're not the President. Plus it doesn't matter if he declassified them because he broke the law either way. He's a private citizen now.

The narrative is he did it after leaving office. That's not true. He didn't break the law if the documents were declassified.

False. They were still government documents he didn't own and wasn't entitled to keep. Law broken.

This. You don’t get to keep government property, period. They easier for it back and he refused, and it so happens some of it was probably highly valuable information that out enemies would love to have. And he kept them at the private club where people pay to have access to him. Not dangerous at all right? No need to retrieve it.

God you people.

And they were actively cooperating with giving back what was wanted back, like every other past administration.

No they were not. The reason the FBI had to get a warrant and seize the stuff is because they were NOT cooperating.

They had full range through MAL in June.

More lies

[Anonymous]

[twitter] https://mobile.twitter.com/KT_So_It_Goes/status/1558291305406599169?cxt=HHwWgsC4tfTrlKArAAAA[/twitter]

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Trump have the authority to “declassify” anything he wants?

If he follows the process of having it properly processed, inventoried, reviewed, cleared and remarked per IC, NARA etc then yes.

But if the question is can he at any time wave a magic wand over a box of documents and declare it declassified, then the answer is absolutely not.

The idea that a bunch of bean counters get to usurp presidential powers is absurd. How do you stop said bean counters from simply not following through deliberately?

I understand that you are trying to be provocative. Nonetheless, people who work for the U.S. government (bean counters) follow the directives given by superiors. It’s really not because they are afraid of jail, job loss, or other consequences. It’s because that generally they want to serve our country. They take very seriously their oath to defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. And if they feel they cannot carry out a directive, they will resign. If they feel the directive is illegal, they have a duty to report that to the IG.

So, there is no usurping the power of POTUS. Sometimes POTUS just doesn’t get to do what he wants. Because that is what is best for our country.

Thats a very precious description of how it works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Trump have the authority to “declassify” anything he wants?

If he follows the process of having it properly processed, inventoried, reviewed, cleared and remarked per IC, NARA etc then yes.

But if the question is can he at any time wave a magic wand over a box of documents and declare it declassified, then the answer is absolutely not.

The idea that a bunch of bean counters get to usurp presidential powers is absurd. How do you stop said bean counters from simply not following through deliberately?

Said bean counters are staffers with clearance. They are there to make the Executive Branch function as a TEAM, and they provide guardrails. The President is not a monarch, and doesn't get to do things unilaterally just because he or she says so!

This is just inaccurate. Not only the president, but also many political appointees and some senior SESs have unilateral authority to declassify. There are boundaries around that authority and the use of it can be challenged. But no, presidents dont have to ask a GS-9 for review and approval.

Your point is moot, because taking declassified documents is not always lawful, see the code above you, section (d). Documents DO NOT HAVE TO BE CLASSIFIED to be illegal to take, retain and use.
Also, the President cannot simply declare something declassified for it to become so. If you use that line of argument, Biden could just as easily claim they are all reclassified, and get Trump in trouble. He won't do that, because that's not how documents are classified and declassified.
Again, Presidents act according to law, rules and an understanding of the actions they take in the context of their office. Trump has never had that understanding, and his supporters think he has all the power to misuse as he thinks fit. That is false.

Both things can be true. It can be true that his statement that he declared the documents declassified is correct, and that he is also not authorized to keep the documents at his residence. But neither point is moot because the severity of the violation partially hinges on the sensitivity of the information.

I disagree that any President can, by a simple statement, declassify something.


If the documents are about Macron's make-up bills (there was a brouhaha in France about that during his first term as President!), and all Trump wanted was to compare his make-up and Macron's, sure, there might not be any charges coming down the pipe

But you REALLY think that the DOJ would have risked such a political storm for something frivolous?

No reasonable person can think so. There is something serious afoot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Trump have the authority to “declassify” anything he wants?

If he follows the process of having it properly processed, inventoried, reviewed, cleared and remarked per IC, NARA etc then yes.

But if the question is can he at any time wave a magic wand over a box of documents and declare it declassified, then the answer is absolutely not.

The idea that a bunch of bean counters get to usurp presidential powers is absurd. How do you stop said bean counters from simply not following through deliberately?

I understand that you are trying to be provocative. Nonetheless, people who work for the U.S. government (bean counters) follow the directives given by superiors. It’s really not because they are afraid of jail, job loss, or other consequences. It’s because that generally they want to serve our country. They take very seriously their oath to defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. And if they feel they cannot carry out a directive, they will resign. If they feel the directive is illegal, they have a duty to report that to the IG.

So, there is no usurping the power of POTUS. Sometimes POTUS just doesn’t get to do what he wants. Because that is what is best for our country.

Thats a very precious description of how it works.

It's generally true. Most people are decent people.

[Anonymous]

If Trump could declassify stuff in his mind, the Biden could reclassify them in his mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Trump could declassify stuff in his mind, the Biden could reclassify them in his mind.

A point many people have made. The declassification argument used by Trump's Kash Patel has no standing. Anyway, the crimes that are being investigated do NOT need documents to be classified. It is a crime to retain documents that endanger the national security of the USA. Not just to share them, or sell them. It's a crime JUST TO HAVE THEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Trump have the authority to “declassify” anything he wants?

If he follows the process of having it properly processed, inventoried, reviewed, cleared and remarked per IC, NARA etc then yes.

But if the question is can he at any time wave a magic wand over a box of documents and declare it declassified, then the answer is absolutely not.

The idea that a bunch of bean counters get to usurp presidential powers is absurd. How do you stop said bean counters from simply not following through deliberately?

Do you really believe that it would be OK for our national security to be so completely vulnerable that one POTUS has the power to completely do-in the country? Our system of government never put that much power in the hands of a single individual such that a treacherous and traitorous person in office could do whatever he wanted and sabotage us all.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't it not even matter if the docs were classified or not?
From the NY Times:
"But even if Mr. Trump declassified the information before he left office, none of the three potential crimes cited by the department in seeking the warrant depend on whether a mishandled document has been deemed classified.

The warrant said the agents would be searching for material as they investigated potential violations of the Espionage Act, which outlaws the unauthorized retention of defense-related information that could harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary — a standard that was written by Congress before the creation of the modern classification system."Files Seized From Trump Are Part of Espionage Act Inquiry https://nyti.ms/3pj9VD4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Trump have the authority to “declassify” anything he wants?

If he follows the process of having it properly processed, inventoried, reviewed, cleared and remarked per IC, NARA etc then yes.

But if the question is can he at any time wave a magic wand over a box of documents and declare it declassified, then the answer is absolutely not.

The idea that a bunch of bean counters get to usurp presidential powers is absurd. How do you stop said bean counters from simply not following through deliberately?

Do you really believe that it would be OK for our national security to be so completely vulnerable that one POTUS has the power to completely do-in the country? Our system of government never put that much power in the hands of a single individual such that a treacherous and traitorous person in office could do whatever he wanted and sabotage us all.

Otherwise we could just have gone on being British under a monarchy, you know.

The troll needs to troll better. He's totally lame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't it not even matter if the docs were classified or not?
From the NY Times:
"But even if Mr. Trump declassified the information before he left office, none of the three potential crimes cited by the department in seeking the warrant depend on whether a mishandled document has been deemed classified.

The warrant said the agents would be searching for material as they investigated potential violations of the Espionage Act, which outlaws the unauthorized retention of defense-related information that could harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary — a standard that was written by Congress before the creation of the modern classification system."Files Seized From Trump Are Part of Espionage Act Inquiry https://nyti.ms/3pj9VD4

No it does not matter. The debate is just one of the Trump distractions. The info has to be related to national defense, closely held, and could be used to injure the US or aid a foreign power. Obviously a lot of classified info meets this (but not all) and some unclassified info could too. There’s been at least one conviction under 793 for unclassified info. When the indictment comes down, the word classified won’t be in there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two points just made on CNN that are worth noting.

1. When the FBI reviews these documents and materials, they will not just be reviewing the substance of the documents. They will likely be fingerprinting the documents to determine who may have viewed them.

2. The existence of the documents alone would not be enough to support a finding of probable cause under the Espionage Act, so this warrant probably signals that DOJ has other evidence (probably from a witness or a written communication they obtained) of intent to share this information in a way that is contrary to national security interests. The warrant itself is only the tip of the iceberg here.

The second paragraph doesn’t make sense. Probable cause can be established by a showing that materials subject to the Espionage Act were in the possession and control of a person but are now unaccounted for and not otherwise under positive control by NARA and/or those materials are known to be located at a specified unsecured location without legal authority. The FBI obtains warrants on this basis all the time when government employees or contractors are involved in mishandling classified or confidential material.

It’s also quite possible that there was a sudden sense of urgency triggered by information obtained through intelligence, surveillance or a witness/source.

Warrants, yes, but I doubt a random employee will be CHARGED with espionage if they mistakenly bring something home they shouldn't have, absent all other proof.
Now in this case, Trump knowingly brought these documents home. But doesn't a charge of espionage need evidence of disseminating it to others? Or intent of same?

Nobody said anything about mistakenly — which is near impodddible to do. That’s blatantly moving the goalposts. Go read 18 USC sec. 793. It is not hard to parse.

Right. My question is: Will Trump be charged with espionage even if law enforcement cannot find any proof he intended to share them? Is sole possession of these docs sufficient since he should have known it was illegal to do so?

Also, if fingerprints of his employees are found on them, will they be charged too?

I bet this brings down the whole Trump family, his legal team, everyone.

How many layers of fingerprints can be read on a single document do you think?

If the fingerprints of his employees belong to foreign nationals who aren’t just cheap summer labor but are actually intelligence from those other countries, yes, they’ll be locked up here or deported or whatever they do with those people.

Dear LORD

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/may/16/james-risch/does-president-have-ability-declassify-anything-an/

The article tries to spin it six ways from Sunday, but the fact is, the documents are unclassified. What Trump had with him down there were documents about Russia-gate with names. The DOJ quietly gave Klinesmith the ability to practice law back. He had lost it due to altering an email used to get the FISAs re: spying at Trump tower. This is why the warrant was so darn broad. What the DOJ/FBI probably wants are documents that could potentially implicate them, because they know the mid-terms could be hell for them politically and that there would be resulting investigations by a Republican House.

But you can't declassify documents after leaving office because then you're not the President. Plus it doesn't matter if he declassified them because he broke the law either way. He's a private citizen now.

The narrative is he did it after leaving office. That's not true. He didn't break the law if the documents were declassified.

False. They were still government documents he didn't own and wasn't entitled to keep. Law broken.

This. You don’t get to keep government property, period. They easier for it back and he refused, and it so happens some of it was probably highly valuable information that out enemies would love to have. And he kept them at the private club where people pay to have access to him. Not dangerous at all right? No need to retrieve it.

God you people.

And they were actively cooperating with giving back what was wanted back, like every other past administration.

No they were not. The reason the FBI had to get a warrant and seize the stuff is because they were NOT cooperating.

They had full range through MAL in June.

More lies

Does signing false statements attesting they gave back all the documents marked classified count as cooperating? This lawyer is going to go through some things. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/13/us/politics/trump-classified-material-fbi.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two points just made on CNN that are worth noting.

1. When the FBI reviews these documents and materials, they will not just be reviewing the substance of the documents. They will likely be fingerprinting the documents to determine who may have viewed them.

2. The existence of the documents alone would not be enough to support a finding of probable cause under the Espionage Act, so this warrant probably signals that DOJ has other evidence (probably from a witness or a written communication they obtained) of intent to share this information in a way that is contrary to national security interests. The warrant itself is only the tip of the iceberg here.

The second paragraph doesn’t make sense. Probable cause can be established by a showing that materials subject to the Espionage Act were in the possession and control of a person but are now unaccounted for and not otherwise under positive control by NARA and/or those materials are known to be located at a specified unsecured location without legal authority. The FBI obtains warrants on this basis all the time when government employees or contractors are involved in mishandling classified or confidential material.

It’s also quite possible that there was a sudden sense of urgency triggered by information obtained through intelligence, surveillance or a witness/source.

Warrants, yes, but I doubt a random employee will be CHARGED with espionage if they mistakenly bring something home they shouldn't have, absent all other proof.
Now in this case, Trump knowingly brought these documents home. But doesn't a charge of espionage need evidence of disseminating it to others? Or intent of same?

Nobody said anything about mistakenly — which is near impodddible to do. That’s blatantly moving the goalposts. Go read 18 USC sec. 793. It is not hard to parse.

Right. My question is: Will Trump be charged with espionage even if law enforcement cannot find any proof he intended to share them? Is sole possession of these docs sufficient since he should have known it was illegal to do so?

Also, if fingerprints of his employees are found on them, will they be charged too?

I bet this brings down the whole Trump family, his legal team, everyone.

How many layers of fingerprints can be read on a single document do you think?

If the fingerprints of his employees belong to foreign nationals who aren’t just cheap summer labor but are actually intelligence from those other countries, yes, they’ll be locked up here or deported or whatever they do with those people.

Dear LORD

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/may/16/james-risch/does-president-have-ability-declassify-anything-an/

The article tries to spin it six ways from Sunday, but the fact is, the documents are unclassified. What Trump had with him down there were documents about Russia-gate with names. The DOJ quietly gave Klinesmith the ability to practice law back. He had lost it due to altering an email used to get the FISAs re: spying at Trump tower. This is why the warrant was so darn broad. What the DOJ/FBI probably wants are documents that could potentially implicate them, because they know the mid-terms could be hell for them politically and that there would be resulting investigations by a Republican House.

But you can't declassify documents after leaving office because then you're not the President. Plus it doesn't matter if he declassified them because he broke the law either way. He's a private citizen now.

The narrative is he did it after leaving office. That's not true. He didn't break the law if the documents were declassified.

False. They were still government documents he didn't own and wasn't entitled to keep. Law broken.

This. You don’t get to keep government property, period. They easier for it back and he refused, and it so happens some of it was probably highly valuable information that out enemies would love to have. And he kept them at the private club where people pay to have access to him. Not dangerous at all right? No need to retrieve it.

God you people.

And they were actively cooperating with giving back what was wanted back, like every other past administration.

No they were not. The reason the FBI had to get a warrant and seize the stuff is because they were NOT cooperating.

They had full range through MAL in June.

More lies

Does signing false statements attesting they gave back all the documents marked classified count as cooperating? This lawyer is going to go through some things. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/13/us/politics/trump-classified-material-fbi.html

All I can say is that given how all the investigation are marching forward, I hope none of Trump's current staff is lying on his behalf. They should know he's tainted, will keep doing illegal things, and they will be thrown under the bus at the earliest opportunity. So honesty is really the best policy here. Apparently half a dozen people close to Trump were interviewed before this week's search at Mar-a-Lago, and among those were at least one witness who pointed them in the right direction. Let's hope none of them cover up for him. It will reduce consequences for them.