Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it odd that we still don’t know the identity of the third helicopter passenger?

Might not have located that person yet

[Anonymous]

I feel like every pilot landing at DCA will now be asking ATC if there are any helicopters around proactively. This crash is so unsettling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it odd that we still don’t know the identity of the third helicopter passenger?

I find it odd. Certainly all the families have been contacted by now.

The military rule is that names, rank and other information is not released for 24 hours after families have been notified. Hegseth broke that by releasing rank of crew members this morning because he obviously knows nothing.

Not to give him credit, he doesn't deserve it, but I think Army helicopter pilots are always Warrant Officers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it odd that we still don’t know the identity of the third helicopter passenger?

Might not have located that person yet

The Army knows who was on the helicopter, is not as if the people got on without that info being recorded somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why were they flowing 200 feet above the maxixmum altitude. And on top of that not seeing a plane that is descending right in front of them. Seems the helicopter did so many things wrong. Doesn’t really make sense.

One question my spouse and I were just discussing is that we should find out how often helicopters flying that route along the Potomac violate the 200 ft limit for that route.

Meaning: was this helicopter doing something very out of the ordinary OR was it engaging in typical behavior (even if not prescribed behavior for helicopters on that route), and enough other stuff went on that the mistake was fatal.

I wonder if all the things that "went wrong" in this situation actually go wrong all the time, and it's just that they all went wrong at once. Which is scary because that seems like an inevitability.

This is the most common scenario for air crashes. I took a course on this in grad school, and after studying the investigation records of many air accidents, this is the common theme. It takes a very unlikely and specific combination of things going wrong to cause an air crash, but they happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now hearing that the ATC scopes showed a Collision Avoidance alarm for 16 seconds before impact. Count that out. And the. Ask if having half the number of controllers is a good idea.

I saw that video and was not sure if it was real so did not mention it. But, if it’s real, it’s upsetting.

My buddy crash landed a Cessna. (No injuries; plane wrecked ) Former military.
He forgot to lower the landing gear, and ignored the beeping, with a passenger present.
People get so locked in to what they think is happen, that they ignore what is happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why were they flowing 200 feet above the maxixmum altitude. And on top of that not seeing a plane that is descending right in front of them. Seems the helicopter did so many things wrong. Doesn’t really make sense.

Watch the video shared above. It’ll help you understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like every pilot landing at DCA will now be asking ATC if there are any helicopters around proactively. This crash is so unsettling.

Yeah runway 33 has a Bad Reputation now.
Even for small regional jets who can best handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it odd that we still don’t know the identity of the third helicopter passenger?

I find it odd. Certainly all the families have been contacted by now.

The military rule is that names, rank and other information is not released for 24 hours after families have been notified. Hegseth broke that by releasing rank of crew members this morning because he obviously knows nothing.

The family needs time to process and to notify other family members. Their family member died. You can wait 24 hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why were they flowing 200 feet above the maxixmum altitude. And on top of that not seeing a plane that is descending right in front of them. Seems the helicopter did so many things wrong. Doesn’t really make sense.

One question my spouse and I were just discussing is that we should find out how often helicopters flying that route along the Potomac violate the 200 ft limit for that route.

Meaning: was this helicopter doing something very out of the ordinary OR was it engaging in typical behavior (even if not prescribed behavior for helicopters on that route), and enough other stuff went on that the mistake was fatal.

I wonder if all the things that "went wrong" in this situation actually go wrong all the time, and it's just that they all went wrong at once. Which is scary because that seems like an inevitability.

Good point. I still think it's crazy to think all the factors had to line up just right for the two to crash. The plane banking to go to the new runway for landing, the Blackhawk flying higher than allowed, and then just the sheer 3D geometry of it. What are the chances they actually crash into each other instead of them having a near miss?

PP here and yes, it is so painful to think about because of the tragic loss of life. I did not know any one who died but I find myself engaging in the same thinking I have engaged in when a loved one died in a car accident. I had a close friend die many years ago when a driver of another car had a stroke behind the wheel and his car crossed the median and ran into her head on. Just a tragic freak accident that was no one's fault and so many things had to line up for her to die that day. I spent years thinking about that, and that's exactly how I feel today. I know it's a grief response (bargaining or denial or both, variously anger too) but that doesn't make it any harder to stop your mind from doing it.

This is not a healthy fixation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it odd that we still don’t know the identity of the third helicopter passenger?

“Still”?

No, not odd. Chill TF out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why were they flowing 200 feet above the maxixmum altitude. And on top of that not seeing a plane that is descending right in front of them. Seems the helicopter did so many things wrong. Doesn’t really make sense.

Watch the video shared above. It’ll help you understand.

Videos here do not help “understand” “why” the black hawk was significantly at the wrong altitude.

The videos did suggest maybe all three crew members never saw the regional jet ordered to land at 33. Or why they didn’t hover, or why the RJ didn’t abort the landing (both of these imply they saw the other aircraft, registered something totally wrong going on, and acted immediately).

Ooda loop. Biased towards action.

Neither of these situational awareness attributes happened in either crew.
Even ATC didn’t really sound a horn: Helo drop alt, bank left now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This administration will be slow to blame the helicopter pilot, cuz military, and also he was a white male.

But I don’t envision a scenario where the Black Hawk crew was not at fault.

No one here is disclosing the name of the reservist who was flying the helicopter. Most responsible for altitude and path. Maybe on Friday or Saturday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why were they flowing 200 feet above the maxixmum altitude. And on top of that not seeing a plane that is descending right in front of them. Seems the helicopter did so many things wrong. Doesn’t really make sense.

Watch the video shared above. It’ll help you understand.

DP, I watched the video and it’s excellent however it does not answer the question WHY the helicopter was 200 feet above the maximum altitude Recommend recommended for that area of the flightpath.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why were they flowing 200 feet above the maxixmum altitude. And on top of that not seeing a plane that is descending right in front of them. Seems the helicopter did so many things wrong. Doesn’t really make sense.

Watch the video shared above. It’ll help you understand.

DP, I watched the video and it’s excellent however it does not answer the question WHY the helicopter was 200 feet above the maximum altitude Recommend recommended for that area of the flightpath.

One of the comments on the YouTube was from another pilot who says he overhears the ATC telling helicopters at DCA they’re too high all the time.