Options for opposing Connecticut Avenue changes?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

Oh what wicked webs we weave

The claimed 1,067% increase in bicycle commuting is the linchpin of the claims that there will only be 7,000+ extra vehicles on side streets and only an 8 minute increase in travel time. It is also the linchpin behind the claims that bicycling will replace driving instead of walking.

Both of the bolded items are lies that have been repeatedly debunked with citations in this thread.

No they haven't. Both of those things are directly from DDOT

The parsing of those numbers have been explained, in detail, in at least three places in this thread, yet in a Trumpian manner, continue to repeat the falsehood.

No it hasn't. You're projecting again.

By the way, DDOT's projections have threw key caveats that you're not mentioning. They don't happen until 2045. They assume 3,000 vehicles will be replaced by bicycles and only 200 by public transport. And they assume that no changes from 2019 happen. No huge development at Chevy Chase Lake and no changes to 14th, 16th, Georgia or Beach.

Wait, what doesn’t happen until 2045? The bike lanes? If that’s the case, why is anyone upset about them in 2022, a full 23 years in advance? If you mean the shift in mode from car to bike by 3,000 vehicles happens by then, sure, that seems plausible.

No, the supposed diversion in traffic to different north south roads. It basically says that north-south traffic will achieve homeostasis in 2045, assuming absolutely no changes are made to any other roads and there is no change in the underlying demographic/density mix in the region. Until then traffic will be a nightmare. It's also already out of date because of the changes made to 14th and 16th as well as the bus routes. It's a static model that assumes nothing changes or has changed since 2019.

In 20 years after the smoldering ashes of downtown DC finally cool following the upcoming recession, tax hikes, crime wave, and urban flight, someone will ask who thought it was a good idea to make it harder for high earning commuters and tourists to come to DC and spend their money. I hope all of you bike geniuses will step forward and take a bow.

You should consider writing sci fi scripts - you have quite the imagination.

We bike people wll be too busy bartering for rat meat on the open needle exchange that's accessed only by the cratered remnants of bike lanes that the Planet of the Apes has now taken over.

You bike people will be long gone by then. With no roots in the community you’ll be off to Tucson or Lincoln or whatever the cool new city is. It will be up to the homeowners and grownups to rebuild.

Because this is DC, a third of them will be off to the suburbs when their kids reach school age (and ironically blame the lack of bike infrastructure as the reason they are joining the legion of suburban drivers), another third will move back to their hometown and the last third will decamp to “the next cool place”.

Oh shoot. I missed that memo. I'm still living here and raising kids. Crap. You know so much about *everything* - what should I do?

I think you did miss the memo. It’s been the explicit economic development strategy of DC for the past several decades to cater to the childless singles, DINKs and retirees. Kids cost money in services.

So do I sell my home? Move the family even though the kids love where we live?

I should probably also tell my neighbors who are raising kids here, like to bike to work, etc. Maybe we can all leave together since it's what you're suggesting. Even though we're all doing well here.

I just counted, and families with kids are a third of the block and a lot of bicyclists within those. Seems like the memo needs to be broadcast much farther. Or, you're full of it.

You’re free to do what you want. Just know that the city will do everything in its power to make your life as a parent difficult so that you’ll leave.

I will do everything in my power to get a new mayor. Not effective yet, but...

Oh, and protected bike lanes, traffic calming, and other stuff like that HELPS my family. If you've ever booked with a kid on unprotected bike lanes you see just how useless they are. Protect them all.

But you've never experienced what it's like when part of Connecticut gets shut down for repairs. It is going to be an epic nightmare for years.

There are roads near me that are shut down and it sucks. So we need to adapt and work around it. Roads will sometimes be closed for repairs. So will metro. So what?

It's a vit different when it's the prinary north south route into the city and the clusterf* will last years.

Maybe you live south of Porter, we don't. All that extra traffic is going to go through our neighborhoods.

I live north of Porter and drive Connecticut all the time, including to things with my kids. And we already have constant cut-through traffic because we're right near Wisconsin, and people zoom through from Western or River to get there. But I still support these protected bike lanes even if they personally inconvenience me.

And despite being a bicyclist I am against permanently eliminating two lanes of Connecticut Ave and inconveniencing my neighbors.

At least we agree that it will cause a lot of traffic.

It's two lanes of parking most of the time, and it's only one lane that is going away for the bike lanes.

[Anonymous]

Connecticut Ave is at a steep uphill incline from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park — tough for casual bikers and commuters. I’m surprised there is the demand for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Connecticut Ave is at a steep uphill incline from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park — tough for casual bikers and commuters. I’m surprised there is the demand for this.

No its really not that steep - the steepest stretch is actually north of the Van Ness Metro but neither of the two climbs are that bad and both pale in comparison to the climb out of Rock Creek park and the climb on the 15th Street bike lane just north of U Street which is used by thousands of people on bikes every day.

Neither of my kids ever have had trouble biking up CT Ave from the time they started powering their own bikes.

What is tough about the hills is that you go slower no matter how experienced you are which makes riding in the road even more terrifying and when you are biking slowly you are a bit less stable which makes it a lot less safe for pedestrians if you are on the sidewalk and in the case of CT Ave north of Van Ness Street the sidewalk is only the standard 6 feet in width for most of the stretch outside of the two commercial areas so it is really awkward to have bikes and pedestrians sharing the space and not fair or safe for either group.

In any case as has been pointed out about 100 times in this thread not everyone is commuting on CT Ave to downtown - people will bike for trips in the corridor for myriad reasons, many of which will not necessarily even require biking up either of the CT Ave hills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Connecticut Ave is at a steep uphill incline from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park — tough for casual bikers and commuters. I’m surprised there is the demand for this.

That...isn't steep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Connecticut Ave is at a steep uphill incline from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park — tough for casual bikers and commuters. I’m surprised there is the demand for this.

E-bikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Connecticut Ave is at a steep uphill incline from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park — tough for casual bikers and commuters. I’m surprised there is the demand for this.

There isn't real demand. It's being pushed by proselytizers that want to use the power of the goverenment to induce demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Connecticut Ave is at a steep uphill incline from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park — tough for casual bikers and commuters. I’m surprised there is the demand for this.

There isn't real demand. It's being pushed by proselytizers that want to use the power of the goverenment to induce demand.

There is demand, as evidenced by the overwhelming votes of the ANC Commissioners who heard from their constituents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Connecticut Ave is at a steep uphill incline from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park — tough for casual bikers and commuters. I’m surprised there is the demand for this.

There isn't real demand. It's being pushed by proselytizers that want to use the power of the goverenment to induce demand.

There's no demand for traffic safety? That's news to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Connecticut Ave is at a steep uphill incline from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park — tough for casual bikers and commuters. I’m surprised there is the demand for this.

That...isn't steep.

Yeah, heading from Mt. P or Adams Morgan, it makes more sense to go up Connecticut from Calvert than to fight Porter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Connecticut Ave is at a steep uphill incline from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park — tough for casual bikers and commuters. I’m surprised there is the demand for this.

There isn't real demand. It's being pushed by proselytizers that want to use the power of the goverenment to induce demand.

There is demand, as evidenced by the overwhelming votes of the ANC Commissioners who heard from their constituents.

Not only that, all the Conn Ave ANCs picked the compromise to preserve parking and improve safety.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Lol, for a moment I thought that was Mayor Bowser and I almost had a stroke.

Can we have him as mayor of DC?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

Oh what wicked webs we weave

The claimed 1,067% increase in bicycle commuting is the linchpin of the claims that there will only be 7,000+ extra vehicles on side streets and only an 8 minute increase in travel time. It is also the linchpin behind the claims that bicycling will replace driving instead of walking.

Both of the bolded items are lies that have been repeatedly debunked with citations in this thread.

No they haven't. Both of those things are directly from DDOT

The parsing of those numbers have been explained, in detail, in at least three places in this thread, yet in a Trumpian manner, continue to repeat the falsehood.

No it hasn't. You're projecting again.

By the way, DDOT's projections have threw key caveats that you're not mentioning. They don't happen until 2045. They assume 3,000 vehicles will be replaced by bicycles and only 200 by public transport. And they assume that no changes from 2019 happen. No huge development at Chevy Chase Lake and no changes to 14th, 16th, Georgia or Beach.

Wait, what doesn’t happen until 2045? The bike lanes? If that’s the case, why is anyone upset about them in 2022, a full 23 years in advance? If you mean the shift in mode from car to bike by 3,000 vehicles happens by then, sure, that seems plausible.

No, the supposed diversion in traffic to different north south roads. It basically says that north-south traffic will achieve homeostasis in 2045, assuming absolutely no changes are made to any other roads and there is no change in the underlying demographic/density mix in the region. Until then traffic will be a nightmare. It's also already out of date because of the changes made to 14th and 16th as well as the bus routes. It's a static model that assumes nothing changes or has changed since 2019.

In 20 years after the smoldering ashes of downtown DC finally cool following the upcoming recession, tax hikes, crime wave, and urban flight, someone will ask who thought it was a good idea to make it harder for high earning commuters and tourists to come to DC and spend their money. I hope all of you bike geniuses will step forward and take a bow.

You should consider writing sci fi scripts - you have quite the imagination.

We bike people wll be too busy bartering for rat meat on the open needle exchange that's accessed only by the cratered remnants of bike lanes that the Planet of the Apes has now taken over.

You bike people will be long gone by then. With no roots in the community you’ll be off to Tucson or Lincoln or whatever the cool new city is. It will be up to the homeowners and grownups to rebuild.

Because this is DC, a third of them will be off to the suburbs when their kids reach school age (and ironically blame the lack of bike infrastructure as the reason they are joining the legion of suburban drivers), another third will move back to their hometown and the last third will decamp to “the next cool place”.

Oh shoot. I missed that memo. I'm still living here and raising kids. Crap. You know so much about *everything* - what should I do?

I think you did miss the memo. It’s been the explicit economic development strategy of DC for the past several decades to cater to the childless singles, DINKs and retirees. Kids cost money in services.

So do I sell my home? Move the family even though the kids love where we live?

I should probably also tell my neighbors who are raising kids here, like to bike to work, etc. Maybe we can all leave together since it's what you're suggesting. Even though we're all doing well here.

I just counted, and families with kids are a third of the block and a lot of bicyclists within those. Seems like the memo needs to be broadcast much farther. Or, you're full of it.

You’re free to do what you want. Just know that the city will do everything in its power to make your life as a parent difficult so that you’ll leave.

I will do everything in my power to get a new mayor. Not effective yet, but...

Oh, and protected bike lanes, traffic calming, and other stuff like that HELPS my family. If you've ever booked with a kid on unprotected bike lanes you see just how useless they are. Protect them all.

But you've never experienced what it's like when part of Connecticut gets shut down for repairs. It is going to be an epic nightmare for years.

There are roads near me that are shut down and it sucks. So we need to adapt and work around it. Roads will sometimes be closed for repairs. So will metro. So what?

It's a vit different when it's the prinary north south route into the city and the clusterf* will last years.

Maybe you live south of Porter, we don't. All that extra traffic is going to go through our neighborhoods.

I live north of Porter and drive Connecticut all the time, including to things with my kids. And we already have constant cut-through traffic because we're right near Wisconsin, and people zoom through from Western or River to get there. But I still support these protected bike lanes even if they personally inconvenience me.

And despite being a bicyclist I am against permanently eliminating two lanes of Connecticut Ave and inconveniencing my neighbors.

At least we agree that it will cause a lot of traffic.

People driving will cause lots of traffic. Many of us have other options.

Good for you. That doesn't help my family and neighbors.

Living in an urban environment involves trade offs if you want a car-centric lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

Oh what wicked webs we weave

The claimed 1,067% increase in bicycle commuting is the linchpin of the claims that there will only be 7,000+ extra vehicles on side streets and only an 8 minute increase in travel time. It is also the linchpin behind the claims that bicycling will replace driving instead of walking.

Both of the bolded items are lies that have been repeatedly debunked with citations in this thread.

No they haven't. Both of those things are directly from DDOT

The parsing of those numbers have been explained, in detail, in at least three places in this thread, yet in a Trumpian manner, continue to repeat the falsehood.

No it hasn't. You're projecting again.

By the way, DDOT's projections have threw key caveats that you're not mentioning. They don't happen until 2045. They assume 3,000 vehicles will be replaced by bicycles and only 200 by public transport. And they assume that no changes from 2019 happen. No huge development at Chevy Chase Lake and no changes to 14th, 16th, Georgia or Beach.

Wait, what doesn’t happen until 2045? The bike lanes? If that’s the case, why is anyone upset about them in 2022, a full 23 years in advance? If you mean the shift in mode from car to bike by 3,000 vehicles happens by then, sure, that seems plausible.

No, the supposed diversion in traffic to different north south roads. It basically says that north-south traffic will achieve homeostasis in 2045, assuming absolutely no changes are made to any other roads and there is no change in the underlying demographic/density mix in the region. Until then traffic will be a nightmare. It's also already out of date because of the changes made to 14th and 16th as well as the bus routes. It's a static model that assumes nothing changes or has changed since 2019.

In 20 years after the smoldering ashes of downtown DC finally cool following the upcoming recession, tax hikes, crime wave, and urban flight, someone will ask who thought it was a good idea to make it harder for high earning commuters and tourists to come to DC and spend their money. I hope all of you bike geniuses will step forward and take a bow.

You should consider writing sci fi scripts - you have quite the imagination.

We bike people wll be too busy bartering for rat meat on the open needle exchange that's accessed only by the cratered remnants of bike lanes that the Planet of the Apes has now taken over.

You bike people will be long gone by then. With no roots in the community you’ll be off to Tucson or Lincoln or whatever the cool new city is. It will be up to the homeowners and grownups to rebuild.

Because this is DC, a third of them will be off to the suburbs when their kids reach school age (and ironically blame the lack of bike infrastructure as the reason they are joining the legion of suburban drivers), another third will move back to their hometown and the last third will decamp to “the next cool place”.

Oh shoot. I missed that memo. I'm still living here and raising kids. Crap. You know so much about *everything* - what should I do?

I think you did miss the memo. It’s been the explicit economic development strategy of DC for the past several decades to cater to the childless singles, DINKs and retirees. Kids cost money in services.

So do I sell my home? Move the family even though the kids love where we live?

I should probably also tell my neighbors who are raising kids here, like to bike to work, etc. Maybe we can all leave together since it's what you're suggesting. Even though we're all doing well here.

I just counted, and families with kids are a third of the block and a lot of bicyclists within those. Seems like the memo needs to be broadcast much farther. Or, you're full of it.

You’re free to do what you want. Just know that the city will do everything in its power to make your life as a parent difficult so that you’ll leave.

Comedy gold

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Connecticut Ave is at a steep uphill incline from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park — tough for casual bikers and commuters. I’m surprised there is the demand for this.

That hill from Adams Morgan to Cleveland Park may be tough for casual bikers, but it isn't for commuters — the first time or two, it's a surprise, and then it gets easier.