Math Placement Letters APS

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I strongly disagree that Cogat should be the main driver. My kid took the test in 2nd or 3rd grade and a lot can happen in the interim between then and middle school that can really affect if they're ready for advanced math. My older one never even took a full version of Cogat because of COVID.

Last year kids didn't have Cogat scores because of COVID, so APS used SOL plus MAP. Kids had to be above 550 and above 236, respectively, to be placed in pre-algebra in 6th

There needs to be some measure of a kid's raw cognitive ability, reasoning skills, quantitative abilities taken into account. It's not all just showing you learned your math, which can be VERY coached and often is around here. Maybe the Cogat isn't it, but I can see why they use it as a factor.

I'm not sure I agree. If a kid who isn't super bright has prepped a ton to make sure they know what they need to know to get those scores and be ready for more advanced math, I suspect that they'd keep putting in the work to stay on that math track.

I'd be more worried about the smart but unfocused kid who didn't pay attention in 5th grade math enough to get a good score on the 5th grade SOL and who doesn't know enough math to get a good MAP score. They obviously have holes in their understanding and need to practice those base skills more first.

This is not how math works. No matter how hard you work most people hit a wall. Even a lot of the kids put in pre algebra in 6th grade will hit a wall. It should not be about prepping.

Umm no. This is not how school works in general. No one will “hit a wall”. There isn’t any sort of innate ability that can’t be overcome by working and studying hard. That is ridiculous. By the time kids get to highschool, if they don’t want to keep working/studying hard in math, they can stop. Once they’ve taken four math classes, they don’t have to keep going. So they can stop at ap calc and either graduate early or take classes they find more interesting.
I majored in engineering and applied math. I used to tutor people all throughout highschool and college, and there is no “hitting a wall”. It’s all just hard work. Some people got it easier than others, but there isn’t any reason why you can’t work hard and study and get better to master material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I strongly disagree that Cogat should be the main driver. My kid took the test in 2nd or 3rd grade and a lot can happen in the interim between then and middle school that can really affect if they're ready for advanced math. My older one never even took a full version of Cogat because of COVID.

Last year kids didn't have Cogat scores because of COVID, so APS used SOL plus MAP. Kids had to be above 550 and above 236, respectively, to be placed in pre-algebra in 6th

There needs to be some measure of a kid's raw cognitive ability, reasoning skills, quantitative abilities taken into account. It's not all just showing you learned your math, which can be VERY coached and often is around here. Maybe the Cogat isn't it, but I can see why they use it as a factor.

I'm not sure I agree. If a kid who isn't super bright has prepped a ton to make sure they know what they need to know to get those scores and be ready for more advanced math, I suspect that they'd keep putting in the work to stay on that math track.

I'd be more worried about the smart but unfocused kid who didn't pay attention in 5th grade math enough to get a good score on the 5th grade SOL and who doesn't know enough math to get a good MAP score. They obviously have holes in their understanding and need to practice those base skills more first.

This is not how math works. No matter how hard you work most people hit a wall. Even a lot of the kids put in pre algebra in 6th grade will hit a wall. It should not be about prepping.

Umm no. This is not how school works in general. No one will “hit a wall”. There isn’t any sort of innate ability that can’t be overcome by working and studying hard. That is ridiculous. By the time kids get to highschool, if they don’t want to keep working/studying hard in math, they can stop. Once they’ve taken four math classes, they don’t have to keep going. So they can stop at ap calc and either graduate early or take classes they find more interesting.
I majored in engineering and applied math. I used to tutor people all throughout highschool and college, and there is no “hitting a wall”. It’s all just hard work. Some people got it easier than others, but there isn’t any reason why you can’t work hard and study and get better to master material.

So your argument is innate cognitive ability does not matter in school and it’s all how hard a person works.

Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I strongly disagree that Cogat should be the main driver. My kid took the test in 2nd or 3rd grade and a lot can happen in the interim between then and middle school that can really affect if they're ready for advanced math. My older one never even took a full version of Cogat because of COVID.

Last year kids didn't have Cogat scores because of COVID, so APS used SOL plus MAP. Kids had to be above 550 and above 236, respectively, to be placed in pre-algebra in 6th

There needs to be some measure of a kid's raw cognitive ability, reasoning skills, quantitative abilities taken into account. It's not all just showing you learned your math, which can be VERY coached and often is around here. Maybe the Cogat isn't it, but I can see why they use it as a factor.

I'm not sure I agree. If a kid who isn't super bright has prepped a ton to make sure they know what they need to know to get those scores and be ready for more advanced math, I suspect that they'd keep putting in the work to stay on that math track.

I'd be more worried about the smart but unfocused kid who didn't pay attention in 5th grade math enough to get a good score on the 5th grade SOL and who doesn't know enough math to get a good MAP score. They obviously have holes in their understanding and need to practice those base skills more first.

This is not how math works. No matter how hard you work most people hit a wall. Even a lot of the kids put in pre algebra in 6th grade will hit a wall. It should not be about prepping.

Umm no. This is not how school works in general. No one will “hit a wall”. There isn’t any sort of innate ability that can’t be overcome by working and studying hard. That is ridiculous. By the time kids get to highschool, if they don’t want to keep working/studying hard in math, they can stop. Once they’ve taken four math classes, they don’t have to keep going. So they can stop at ap calc and either graduate early or take classes they find more interesting.
I majored in engineering and applied math. I used to tutor people all throughout highschool and college, and there is no “hitting a wall”. It’s all just hard work. Some people got it easier than others, but there isn’t any reason why you can’t work hard and study and get better to master material.

So your argument is innate cognitive ability does not matter in school and it’s all how hard a person works.

Interesting.

Yes. That’s the American dream. Work hard and you’ll get where you want to be.
We are talking about an honors math class here. It may make sense for the initial sixth grade placement, but factoring in a iq test from second grade for which math class a kid takes in eighth grade or highschool or college is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I strongly disagree that Cogat should be the main driver. My kid took the test in 2nd or 3rd grade and a lot can happen in the interim between then and middle school that can really affect if they're ready for advanced math. My older one never even took a full version of Cogat because of COVID.

Last year kids didn't have Cogat scores because of COVID, so APS used SOL plus MAP. Kids had to be above 550 and above 236, respectively, to be placed in pre-algebra in 6th

There needs to be some measure of a kid's raw cognitive ability, reasoning skills, quantitative abilities taken into account. It's not all just showing you learned your math, which can be VERY coached and often is around here. Maybe the Cogat isn't it, but I can see why they use it as a factor.

I'm not sure I agree. If a kid who isn't super bright has prepped a ton to make sure they know what they need to know to get those scores and be ready for more advanced math, I suspect that they'd keep putting in the work to stay on that math track.

I'd be more worried about the smart but unfocused kid who didn't pay attention in 5th grade math enough to get a good score on the 5th grade SOL and who doesn't know enough math to get a good MAP score. They obviously have holes in their understanding and need to practice those base skills more first.

This is not how math works. No matter how hard you work most people hit a wall. Even a lot of the kids put in pre algebra in 6th grade will hit a wall. It should not be about prepping.

Umm no. This is not how school works in general. No one will “hit a wall”. There isn’t any sort of innate ability that can’t be overcome by working and studying hard. That is ridiculous. By the time kids get to highschool, if they don’t want to keep working/studying hard in math, they can stop. Once they’ve taken four math classes, they don’t have to keep going. So they can stop at ap calc and either graduate early or take classes they find more interesting.
I majored in engineering and applied math. I used to tutor people all throughout highschool and college, and there is no “hitting a wall”. It’s all just hard work. Some people got it easier than others, but there isn’t any reason why you can’t work hard and study and get better to master material.

So your argument is innate cognitive ability does not matter in school and it’s all how hard a person works.

Interesting.

I'm a different poster, but I think the vast majority of kids who are getting a 550 SOL score and a 126+ MAP score in 5th grade have the ability. It's not that cognitive ability doesn't matter at all, it's that getting those scores shows that a kid likely has the ability if they put in the work and get good instruction. Parents aren't prepping for 5th grade math standardized testing like AAP in Fairfax. It's just not that prepped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I strongly disagree that Cogat should be the main driver. My kid took the test in 2nd or 3rd grade and a lot can happen in the interim between then and middle school that can really affect if they're ready for advanced math. My older one never even took a full version of Cogat because of COVID.

Last year kids didn't have Cogat scores because of COVID, so APS used SOL plus MAP. Kids had to be above 550 and above 236, respectively, to be placed in pre-algebra in 6th

There needs to be some measure of a kid's raw cognitive ability, reasoning skills, quantitative abilities taken into account. It's not all just showing you learned your math, which can be VERY coached and often is around here. Maybe the Cogat isn't it, but I can see why they use it as a factor.

I'm not sure I agree. If a kid who isn't super bright has prepped a ton to make sure they know what they need to know to get those scores and be ready for more advanced math, I suspect that they'd keep putting in the work to stay on that math track.

I'd be more worried about the smart but unfocused kid who didn't pay attention in 5th grade math enough to get a good score on the 5th grade SOL and who doesn't know enough math to get a good MAP score. They obviously have holes in their understanding and need to practice those base skills more first.

This is not how math works. No matter how hard you work most people hit a wall. Even a lot of the kids put in pre algebra in 6th grade will hit a wall. It should not be about prepping.

Umm no. This is not how school works in general. No one will “hit a wall”. There isn’t any sort of innate ability that can’t be overcome by working and studying hard. That is ridiculous. By the time kids get to highschool, if they don’t want to keep working/studying hard in math, they can stop. Once they’ve taken four math classes, they don’t have to keep going. So they can stop at ap calc and either graduate early or take classes they find more interesting.
I majored in engineering and applied math. I used to tutor people all throughout highschool and college, and there is no “hitting a wall”. It’s all just hard work. Some people got it easier than others, but there isn’t any reason why you can’t work hard and study and get better to master material.

So your argument is innate cognitive ability does not matter in school and it’s all how hard a person works.

Interesting.

Yes. That’s the American dream. Work hard and you’ll get where you want to be.
We are talking about an honors math class here. It may make sense for the initial sixth grade placement, but factoring in a iq test from second grade for which math class a kid takes in eighth grade or highschool or college is stupid.

Let's also note that 2nd grader aren't particularly reliable test takers and it's only taken once. It would be crazy to keep a 6th grader out of advanced math because of one test in 2nd grade when they have a interest in more challenging math and a track record of strong math scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I strongly disagree that Cogat should be the main driver. My kid took the test in 2nd or 3rd grade and a lot can happen in the interim between then and middle school that can really affect if they're ready for advanced math. My older one never even took a full version of Cogat because of COVID.

Last year kids didn't have Cogat scores because of COVID, so APS used SOL plus MAP. Kids had to be above 550 and above 236, respectively, to be placed in pre-algebra in 6th

There needs to be some measure of a kid's raw cognitive ability, reasoning skills, quantitative abilities taken into account. It's not all just showing you learned your math, which can be VERY coached and often is around here. Maybe the Cogat isn't it, but I can see why they use it as a factor.

I'm not sure I agree. If a kid who isn't super bright has prepped a ton to make sure they know what they need to know to get those scores and be ready for more advanced math, I suspect that they'd keep putting in the work to stay on that math track.

I'd be more worried about the smart but unfocused kid who didn't pay attention in 5th grade math enough to get a good score on the 5th grade SOL and who doesn't know enough math to get a good MAP score. They obviously have holes in their understanding and need to practice those base skills more first.

This is not how math works. No matter how hard you work most people hit a wall. Even a lot of the kids put in pre algebra in 6th grade will hit a wall. It should not be about prepping.

Umm no. This is not how school works in general. No one will “hit a wall”. There isn’t any sort of innate ability that can’t be overcome by working and studying hard. That is ridiculous. By the time kids get to highschool, if they don’t want to keep working/studying hard in math, they can stop. Once they’ve taken four math classes, they don’t have to keep going. So they can stop at ap calc and either graduate early or take classes they find more interesting.
I majored in engineering and applied math. I used to tutor people all throughout highschool and college, and there is no “hitting a wall”. It’s all just hard work. Some people got it easier than others, but there isn’t any reason why you can’t work hard and study and get better to master material.

So your argument is innate cognitive ability does not matter in school and it’s all how hard a person works.

Interesting.

I'm a different poster, but I think the vast majority of kids who are getting a 550 SOL score and a 126+ MAP score in 5th grade have the ability. It's not that cognitive ability doesn't matter at all, it's that getting those scores shows that a kid likely has the ability if they put in the work and get good instruction. Parents aren't prepping for 5th grade math standardized testing like AAP in Fairfax. It's just not that prepped.

More people than you think are supporting math at home and doing extra at home.

I think it’s reasonable to consider all the factors, which is what APS does.

I don’t agree with the idea that anyone can master genuinely higher math (calculus+) if they just work hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I also have a kid in HS who was placed in math 6-7-8 in 6th by his elementary. My impression was they looked at everything and it was a holistic review, not a hard cutoff for any one test. My kid actually had an oddly low score on one standardized assessment, but the school still placed him in the higher class anyways. I didn't have to parent place him. Things may have changed since, but I appreciated that they didn't gatekeep based on one low score. FWIW, it was the right placement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I also have a kid in HS who was placed in math 6-7-8 in 6th by his elementary. My impression was they looked at everything and it was a holistic review, not a hard cutoff for any one test. My kid actually had an oddly low score on one standardized assessment, but the school still placed him in the higher class anyways. I didn't have to parent place him. Things may have changed since, but I appreciated that they didn't gatekeep based on one low score. FWIW, it was the right placement.

Elementary schools don't participate in placement decisions. It's done at the APS central office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I also have a kid in HS who was placed in math 6-7-8 in 6th by his elementary. My impression was they looked at everything and it was a holistic review, not a hard cutoff for any one test. My kid actually had an oddly low score on one standardized assessment, but the school still placed him in the higher class anyways. I didn't have to parent place him. Things may have changed since, but I appreciated that they didn't gatekeep based on one low score. FWIW, it was the right placement.

Elementary schools don't participate in placement decisions. It's done at the APS central office.

This could be a lie but the letter does say this:

Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher
recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for
mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I also have a kid in HS who was placed in math 6-7-8 in 6th by his elementary. My impression was they looked at everything and it was a holistic review, not a hard cutoff for any one test. My kid actually had an oddly low score on one standardized assessment, but the school still placed him in the higher class anyways. I didn't have to parent place him. Things may have changed since, but I appreciated that they didn't gatekeep based on one low score. FWIW, it was the right placement.

Elementary schools don't participate in placement decisions. It's done at the APS central office.

This could be a lie but the letter does say this:

Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher
recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for
mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations.

You can ask your 5th grade teacher, but ours told us she never has a chance to provide input. The elementary school math coach and teacher have said many times that they aren't part of the placement process.

[Anonymous]

To the person who posted that they don’t think you can master math just by working hard — how far did you get in math in college?

I was an aerospace engineer at a big state school and there were so many of my classmates that were bad at math. Like very very bad at math. These are enlisted kids that were coming back to school under the gi bill, kids that didn’t even go to college the first round. Or kids that were coming in from community college. They still eeked out passing grades past calculus (multi variable calculus, diff eq, linear algebra, etc). They had to go get extra help, but it was set up that if you did the homework (and studied the homework), you would pass. There’s nothing that can’t be overcome with hard work. Will you get an a, probably not. Will it be more work for you? Sure, but if you’re up for the challenge why not.

I wonder if you would say the same thing about writing— are there kids that shouldn’t take English in college because they didn’t score above a 120 as a second grader on the verbal section of the cogat? That’s ridiculous!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I also have a kid in HS who was placed in math 6-7-8 in 6th by his elementary. My impression was they looked at everything and it was a holistic review, not a hard cutoff for any one test. My kid actually had an oddly low score on one standardized assessment, but the school still placed him in the higher class anyways. I didn't have to parent place him. Things may have changed since, but I appreciated that they didn't gatekeep based on one low score. FWIW, it was the right placement.

Elementary schools don't participate in placement decisions. It's done at the APS central office.

This could be a lie but the letter does say this:

Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher
recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for
mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations.

You can ask your 5th grade teacher, but ours told us she never has a chance to provide input. The elementary school math coach and teacher have said many times that they aren't part of the placement process.

Yes, that’s what ours told us as well. It’s all test scores, unless a parent complains.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our math placement letter with a description of the various math classes for 6th grade is in parentvue.

Can someone please share the cutoffs they're using for 6th grade placement?

There are 3 math classes for 6th grade this year: Math 6, Math 6 Advanced, and Pre-Algebra for 6th Graders. The letter specifies "minimum score indicating a student might be ready for a 2-year compacted curriculum in grade 6." My read is that this refers to Math 6 Advanced. These minimum scores are:
Sol 5: 466+
CogAT Quantitative: 126+
CogAT Nonverbal: 126+
CogAT Composite: 126+
NWEA MAP Achievement Percentile: 90th+

126+ was the Cogat cutoff for pre-algebra for 6th graders last year. It's strange they're using that for the cutoff for Math 6 Advanced.

I don't think these are hard lines. My child exceeded most of these scores and was placed in pre-algebra. The letter also says: "Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations." The one "hard line" I am aware of is the new state law that all students scoring in the top 25% of the 5th grade SOL be placed in an advanced math class in 6th grade. But both Math 6 Advanced and Pre-Algebra could as advanced, for the state's purposes. It will be interesting to see the number of students enrolled in each of these classes when APS enrollment data comes out in the fall.

Can you share the SOL and MAP cutoffs for 6th grade pre-algebra this year?

The placement letter only shares the cut offs listed above.

It's interesting it's a black box between Math 6 Advanced vs Pre-algebra placement. Last year they wanted a 550 SOL score for pre-algebra and that seemed to be a hard cutoff.

Anyone receive this year's SOL cutoffs for Pre-Algebra in their letter? Or have other years to compare to besides last? Is it always around 550?

My son is in high school and I THINK in years past they didn't even use the SOL? It was the COGAT and the old math inventory they used to give them. But I am not certain and could be wrong.

I can see the COGAT should be a main driver. SOL scores can be very dependent on a teacher and how much they drill/review with them.

I also have a kid in HS who was placed in math 6-7-8 in 6th by his elementary. My impression was they looked at everything and it was a holistic review, not a hard cutoff for any one test. My kid actually had an oddly low score on one standardized assessment, but the school still placed him in the higher class anyways. I didn't have to parent place him. Things may have changed since, but I appreciated that they didn't gatekeep based on one low score. FWIW, it was the right placement.

Elementary schools don't participate in placement decisions. It's done at the APS central office.

This could be a lie but the letter does say this:

Additional information that can be used to determine mathematics course placement includes: teacher
recommendations based on classroom performance, parent recommendations, student interest and preference for
mathematical challenge, and demonstrated aptitude through grades, portfolios, or classroom observations.

That’s a copy and paste for all the grades. I do think that they factor in grades for 7th and 8th grade, but probably not for sixth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the person who posted that they don’t think you can master math just by working hard — how far did you get in math in college?

I was an aerospace engineer at a big state school and there were so many of my classmates that were bad at math. Like very very bad at math. These are enlisted kids that were coming back to school under the gi bill, kids that didn’t even go to college the first round. Or kids that were coming in from community college. They still eeked out passing grades past calculus (multi variable calculus, diff eq, linear algebra, etc). They had to go get extra help, but it was set up that if you did the homework (and studied the homework), you would pass. There’s nothing that can’t be overcome with hard work. Will you get an a, probably not. Will it be more work for you? Sure, but if you’re up for the challenge why not.

I wonder if you would say the same thing about writing— are there kids that shouldn’t take English in college because they didn’t score above a 120 as a second grader on the verbal section of the cogat? That’s ridiculous!

I have a STEM degree and generally agree. I'll also note that we're not talking about any student, but students who have top 10% math test scores in APS 5th grade. That cuts out the students with significant LDs or other serious math struggles. These are students who've already shown they are pretty good at math by getting top math scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the person who posted that they don’t think you can master math just by working hard — how far did you get in math in college?

I was an aerospace engineer at a big state school and there were so many of my classmates that were bad at math. Like very very bad at math. These are enlisted kids that were coming back to school under the gi bill, kids that didn’t even go to college the first round. Or kids that were coming in from community college. They still eeked out passing grades past calculus (multi variable calculus, diff eq, linear algebra, etc). They had to go get extra help, but it was set up that if you did the homework (and studied the homework), you would pass. There’s nothing that can’t be overcome with hard work. Will you get an a, probably not. Will it be more work for you? Sure, but if you’re up for the challenge why not.

I wonder if you would say the same thing about writing— are there kids that shouldn’t take English in college because they didn’t score above a 120 as a second grader on the verbal section of the cogat? That’s ridiculous!

I don't agree with the statement "There's nothing that can't be overcome with hard work." My opinion is some people are smarter than other people and there are environments where the content is too hard or moves too fast and some people just won't be able to keep up and do the work. (Not saying that is this APS math class...but as a general concept.) And no I don't take comfort in knowing there are a bunch of aerospace engineers out there who are very very bad at math and barely got out of college in the major.

To bring it back to math placement in 6th grade - APS is trying to funnel the kids into prealgebra in 6th grade who are not likely to be very bad at math, now or in the future, so one teacher can serve up to 30 students and move through 3 years of material in 1 year. The very bad at math kid is going to slow everyone else down, take up a lot of teacher time, and probably have quite a bad time along the way, even if they work really hard. I don't blame APS for trying to gatekeep the class.