Entry into Student run Clubs at Ivy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I've recommended this book before -- The Years That Matter Most: How College Makes or Breaks Us, by Paul Tough. He explains how this is actually what the top colleges are: social incubators that require a certain amount of exclusivity.

The students who attend an Ivy ready to work really hard and get top grades don't get it when the rich kids who did none of the work get the plum internships upon recommendation of the professor after hanging out in office hours. Top colleges are about networking, they aren't a community college career training program. With that being the case, well, you don't let everyone into skull and bones.

Professors hate rich kids and don't have any motivation or incentive to recommend dumb rich kids for internships.

Def not true at some schools where the profs are in business/industry and know your CEO dad.

I can’t think of a single prof where this would even be applicable. Even the business profs are independent consultants, not working for two jobs. Maybe an adjunct but who the hell cares about an adjunct?

You must be living under the rock. It does happen on a regular basis. My DS is an athlete at an Ivy, and he provided free private tennis lessons for one of the professors. The professor recommended DS to one of his SVP buddies at an investment company for several internship opportunities. According to the professor, there were at least seven candidates who were more qualified for those internships, but DS got the nod because the professor appreciated DS took the time to train his kid. DS ended up with internships in his sophomore and junior year. He received a full-time offer to work there after graduation in May 2024.

"Top colleges are about networking, they aren't a community college career training program." is absolutely correct.

That is not networking that is quid pro quo.

Whatever you call it, it was a very smart move. It is going on everyday in the real world.

The irony is all the yelling at each other in the other threads abut Merit! Meritocracy! Tests! for these schools. Yet, indeed, this is how the real world works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've recommended this book before -- The Years That Matter Most: How College Makes or Breaks Us, by Paul Tough. He explains how this is actually what the top colleges are: social incubators that require a certain amount of exclusivity.

The students who attend an Ivy ready to work really hard and get top grades don't get it when the rich kids who did none of the work get the plum internships upon recommendation of the professor after hanging out in office hours. Top colleges are about networking, they aren't a community college career training program. With that being the case, well, you don't let everyone into skull and bones.

Professors hate rich kids and don't have any motivation or incentive to recommend dumb rich kids for internships.

Def not true at some schools where the profs are in business/industry and know your CEO dad.

Non-business school professors don't have any connections and can only help people with roles in academia. Unless you're going to Wharton or Stern, you won't be meeting any of them any time soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dc (entering freshman) was a little shocked by the student club culture. Every single club needs applications and interviews and most have a very low probability of acceptance. Seriously regretting the decision to go to an Ivy. This was hardly DC's idea of what college life would be. We were willy to not know about any of this stuff?

My kid realized this touring Columbia when she asked about a club she had led at her HS level. She was so turned off by the response about how it was very competitive to get into that she refused to apply there (and got into a higher ranked non-ivy where they aren’t so snobby about this). She had spent 5 years building a welcoming inclusive supportive environment for the club at the MS and HS level and was really turned off by the attitude that you would have to compete even to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've recommended this book before -- The Years That Matter Most: How College Makes or Breaks Us, by Paul Tough. He explains how this is actually what the top colleges are: social incubators that require a certain amount of exclusivity.

The students who attend an Ivy ready to work really hard and get top grades don't get it when the rich kids who did none of the work get the plum internships upon recommendation of the professor after hanging out in office hours. Top colleges are about networking, they aren't a community college career training program. With that being the case, well, you don't let everyone into skull and bones.

Professors hate rich kids and don't have any motivation or incentive to recommend dumb rich kids for internships.

Def not true at some schools where the profs are in business/industry and know your CEO dad.

Non-business school professors don't have any connections and can only help people with roles in academia. Unless you're going to Wharton or Stern, you won't be meeting any of them any time soon.

Dyson and Ross

Yes have experience with both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You must be living under the rock. It does happen on a regular basis. My DS is an athlete at an Ivy, and he provided free private tennis lessons for one of the professors. The professor recommended DS to one of his SVP buddies at an investment company for several internship opportunities. According to the professor, there were at least seven candidates who were more qualified for those internships, but DS got the nod because the professor appreciated DS took the time to train his kid. DS ended up with internships in his sophomore and junior year. He received a full-time offer to work there after graduation in May 2024.

"Top colleges are about networking, they aren't a community college career training program." is absolutely correct.

That is not networking that is quid pro quo.

Please tell me why it is a quid pro quo. Professors can recommend internships to their former colleagues any students they like. It happens all the time in the real world.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard has 13 a capella troupes. If Dingleberry investment club is full, form Dongleberry investment club. Admin will give you a grant.

Agree. It is easy to start clubs at ivies and it is also easy to join one of the hundreds that are open to all. This thread is just fear-mongering as usual: bash the ivies and convince people they are super competitive and cutthroat (or on other threads filled with—the horror—geeks!). For any real parents who are interested, ask people in real life that go there. Most privates and magnet schools have handful or more every year: this is how ours picked the ivy: the reviews from current students were all great

+1 my two kids at Ivies are quite normal DMV kids yet between the two of them they have been (1) campus tour guide, (2) club team captain, (3) literary mag chair, (4) Shakespeare club director, (5) leading parts in campus plays.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not being accepted to the Princeton Tiddlywinks Club could be a career wrecker.

New poster: you’re a jerk. Some clubs have a real impact on the future. An EMT club gets you certified, credit hours and clinical hours for med school apps. A law related fraternity gets you guest speakers for connections and info, jobs placement bumps, and special study materials and tutoring for the LSAT.

No one needs a law related fraternity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not being accepted to the Princeton Tiddlywinks Club could be a career wrecker.

New poster: you’re a jerk. Some clubs have a real impact on the future. An EMT club gets you certified, credit hours and clinical hours for med school apps. A law related fraternity gets you guest speakers for connections and info, jobs placement bumps, and special study materials and tutoring for the LSAT.

No one needs a law related fraternity.

You could say that for absolutely any club:

No one needs to be a recruited athlete, musician, actor, etc. who said “need?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard has 13 a capella troupes. If Dingleberry investment club is full, form Dongleberry investment club. Admin will give you a grant.

Agree. It is easy to start clubs at ivies and it is also easy to join one of the hundreds that are open to all. This thread is just fear-mongering as usual: bash the ivies and convince people they are super competitive and cutthroat (or on other threads filled with—the horror—geeks!). For any real parents who are interested, ask people in real life that go there. Most privates and magnet schools have handful or more every year: this is how ours picked the ivy: the reviews from current students were all great

+1 my two kids at Ivies are quite normal DMV kids yet between the two of them they have been (1) campus tour guide, (2) club team captain, (3) literary mag chair, (4) Shakespeare club director, (5) leading parts in campus plays.

+1000

My freshman student #1 at an Ivy got rejected from twelve different clubs. My sophomore student also got rejected from ten different clubs.

[Anonymous]

^^ sophomore at another Ivy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard has 13 a capella troupes. If Dingleberry investment club is full, form Dongleberry investment club. Admin will give you a grant.

Agree. It is easy to start clubs at ivies and it is also easy to join one of the hundreds that are open to all. This thread is just fear-mongering as usual: bash the ivies and convince people they are super competitive and cutthroat (or on other threads filled with—the horror—geeks!). For any real parents who are interested, ask people in real life that go there. Most privates and magnet schools have handful or more every year: this is how ours picked the ivy: the reviews from current students were all great

+1 my two kids at Ivies are quite normal DMV kids yet between the two of them they have been (1) campus tour guide, (2) club team captain, (3) literary mag chair, (4) Shakespeare club director, (5) leading parts in campus plays.

Not as a freshman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard has 13 a capella troupes. If Dingleberry investment club is full, form Dongleberry investment club. Admin will give you a grant.

Agree. It is easy to start clubs at ivies and it is also easy to join one of the hundreds that are open to all. This thread is just fear-mongering as usual: bash the ivies and convince people they are super competitive and cutthroat (or on other threads filled with—the horror—geeks!). For any real parents who are interested, ask people in real life that go there. Most privates and magnet schools have handful or more every year: this is how ours picked the ivy: the reviews from current students were all great

+1 my two kids at Ivies are quite normal DMV kids yet between the two of them they have been (1) campus tour guide, (2) club team captain, (3) literary mag chair, (4) Shakespeare club director, (5) leading parts in campus plays.

+1000

My freshman student #1 at an Ivy got rejected from twelve different clubs. My sophomore student also got rejected from ten different clubs.

So don't apply to Ivies then.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My son at an Ivy hasn’t run into this.

He made the Club sport team and joined the club he wanted.

Same. My kid is unhooked. He has found lots of friends, joined club and a sports team and is having fun.

I guess it depends on the Ivy.

+1

Same. Club sports team he made is competitive though. Rolling cuts over 3 days of tryouts. 100 kids for 4 Freshman spots. He got one of them. But, club travels and plays other colleges- flys to championships, etc. This one plays nearly year round. Most colleges certain sports are very competitive to make the teams. Very large schools near impossible.

There are intramural teams for kids not on the Varsity or Club teams.

This. One at an Ivy and one at UVA. The Ivy kid has had much more opportunity--easily gotten into clubs he wanted. Not wealthy, not hooked, etc. The culture at UVA was much harder to get into things. And club sports were even more like a rush than talent and the sheer numbers coming out for the popular sports made it impossible.

And my UVA had nary a problem. She joined the Jefferson Society (debate), a political club, worked for Larry Sabato's Crystal ball, worked on school newspaper, had great friends and never even set foot in a Greek house. And you are wrong about club sports. UVA has over 700 clubs and all
have tables out each year in the fall welcoming new members. It is a public, after all. Often it's just the kid ....

Have kids at UVA and club sports are SUPER competitive.

But to be fair, UVA is nothing compared to
Harvard, where I went. There are no finals clubs, no dining clubs, no Porc. There are over 700 clubs that all students can apply to. Every fall, the clubs out tables in Alderman
and have reps meet with students. It's also easy to start your own. There are sone competitive Business Clubs and some competitive sports clubs. And the student Honors club. But the two social ones that one must compete for - the most elite a capella groups (UVA has something like 20 a cappella groups, which all perform on the lawn before Christmas) and the Jefferson Society (oldest debating society in America) are audition by talent competitions. The rest -including many more singing groups, the political clubs and ecen the student newspaper, are open to everyone. If you can't find some clubs to suit your interests you aren't trying

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a secret club at Penn for billionaire kids..

All ivies have one, some have 2-3. UVA has secret rich people clubs. This is not a novelty

No, it doesn't. Please read the wiki page on "University of Virginia Secret societies". UVA secret seven (and the many other secret societies listed in the wiki) are PHILANTHROPIC. They are unique to UVA and a source of great pride for the University. The clubs give millions to the University every year. It is an honor to be tapped for one of them but expect a lifetime of philanthropic giving. For some of the societies, membership isn't even revealed until death when a floral display is delivered to the funeral home ... because anonymous giving is the greatest form of philanthropy. In that way, UVA's secret societies are a great teaching tool. Are some of the members rich? Yes. One group gave $1 million for the new gym. You can't do that out of dust as an undergrad. But other secret societies give simple white roses to those on campus perceived to be grieving. Other groups exist to honor greatness in faculty or student and require no great outlay of cash to present plaques. There is a wide difference in levels of philanthropic giving amongst the societies, so, no, you don't have to be rich to be tapped by some of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a secret club at Penn for billionaire kids..

All ivies have one, some have 2-3. UVA has secret rich people clubs. This is not a novelty

No, it doesn't. Please read the wiki page on "University of Virginia Secret societies". UVA secret seven (and the many other secret societies listed in the wiki) are PHILANTHROPIC. They are unique to UVA and a source of great pride for the University. The clubs give millions to the University every year. It is an honor to be tapped for one of them but expect a lifetime of philanthropic giving. For some of the societies, membership isn't even revealed until death when a floral display is delivered to the funeral home ... because anonymous giving is the greatest form of philanthropy. In that way, UVA's secret societies are a great teaching tool. Are some of the members rich? Yes. One group gave $1 million for the new gym. You can't do that out of dust as an undergrad. But other secret societies give simple white roses to those on campus perceived to be grieving. Other groups exist to honor greatness in faculty or student and require no great outlay of cash to present plaques. There is a wide difference in levels of philanthropic giving amongst the societies, so, no, you don't have to be rich to be tapped by some of them.

Sounds a lot like the rich kid clubs at other schools