what makes someone a sociopath besides abuse/trauma in childhood?

[Anonymous]

just curious. any mental health professionals out there? i am thinking, of course, of casey anthony. let's assume that her family is as normal as they appear to be and that there was no abuse from her dad. what would cause a person to be such a pathological liar and a murderer?

caveat: this is just a thought question. she is innocent until proven guilty etc and so forth. that is not what i am focusing on here. i am really just curious as to what leads to a pathology like this outside of abuse and trauma? was she just born that way?

[Anonymous]

I think it has to do with the failure of part of the brain to develop correctly -- people who are psychopathic can not feel for other people. They see people as objects to meet their needs. They can't put themselves in the position of another and understand how it would feel to be someone else.

There are parts of the brain that deal with emotional processing and empathy -- these areas must not be working.

[Anonymous]

First of all, Casey Anthony is not necessarily a sociopath. True sociopaths are very rare. Just because someone lies and murders does not mean they have no conscience and no ability to feel guilty. You're talking about an extremely rare case when you discuss a sociopath. Even pathological liars are not necessarily sociopaths.

As a lawyer I can tell you that prosecuting attorneys will always be able to find a psychiatrist to describe a defendant as having sociopathic tendencies. Many people who are later found to be absolutely innocent have been described that way. I'm NOT saying that Anthony is innocent, I'm just saying that having a paid gun of a shrink describe someone as a sociopath is pretty meaningless.

And it is a disservice to abuse survivors to state that an abusive childhood causes sociopathy. There is really no one answer that question. Mental illness strikes people from all backgrounds.

[Anonymous]

I read two books about this recently. Th Sociopath Next Door, and , Without Conscience. Fascinating, and chilling.

I think basically some people (up to one out of 25!) are just born that way. Nurture can intensify or mitigate some of the outward manifestations of anti social behavior. Not all sociopaths are murderers. Not all murderers are sociopaths. It's a very unique thing - the inability to have empathy for others.

[Anonymous]

To PP, don't you mean that a defense atty will always be able to hire someone to say that their client has some sort of mental illness? You are correct if that is what you meant. The prosecutor wouldn't want to define the defendant as mentally ill as it may eliminate culpability.

And I agree that abuse does not make someone a sociopath. If that were the case, at least 50% of the population (if not more) would be sociopathic.

To the OP, if you're looking for an explanation of why a mother would kill her child, you aren't going to find a satisfying answer. We have a tendency to want to define something, to put it in a controlled/understandable box so that the world isn't as unpredictable as it seems to be. It makes us feel safer. But, it isn't reality. "Normal" people do bad things. Everyone is capable of doing bad things under some circumstances. We like to separate the world into "good" and "bad." But, the truth is, we all have "bad" in us. Fortunately, the vast majority of us are able to make choices that override our impulses for bad. I always hate when people say "I know Joe, and he would never ..." You NEVER know what a person is capable of doing under certain pressures or circumstances. People are unpredictable in stressful situations.

There is no good explanation for why a mother would kill her child.... but it happens.

[Anonymous]

OP, look around at the behaviors you see every day. Those who are supposedly "oblivious" to others. This area is full of sociopaths in one form or another. They never learned, nor do they care how to treat others. In goes beyond merely being inconsiderate. It is a passive aggressive series of behaviors that they deny. In addition, they are delusional about how important they think they are. I could go on, but we will leave it at that for now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To PP, don't you mean that a defense atty will always be able to hire someone to say that their client has some sort of mental illness? You are correct if that is what you meant. The prosecutor wouldn't want to define the defendant as mentally ill as it may eliminate culpability.

And I agree that abuse does not make someone a sociopath. If that were the case, at least 50% of the population (if not more) would be sociopathic.

To the OP, if you're looking for an explanation of why a mother would kill her child, you aren't going to find a satisfying answer. We have a tendency to want to define something, to put it in a controlled/understandable box so that the world isn't as unpredictable as it seems to be. It makes us feel safer. But, it isn't reality. "Normal" people do bad things. Everyone is capable of doing bad things under some circumstances. We like to separate the world into "good" and "bad." But, the truth is, we all have "bad" in us. Fortunately, the vast majority of us are able to make choices that override our impulses for bad. I always hate when people say "I know Joe, and he would never ..." You NEVER know what a person is capable of doing under certain pressures or circumstances. People are unpredictable in stressful situations.

There is no good explanation for why a mother would kill her child.... but it happens.

agree. but there is kill your child and then there is kill her, bury her, party for a month, blame it on a babysitter, lie endlessly to everyone in your family and police, and then blame it on your dad. kwim?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, Casey Anthony is not necessarily a sociopath. True sociopaths are very rare. Just because someone lies and murders does not mean they have no conscience and no ability to feel guilty. You're talking about an extremely rare case when you discuss a sociopath. Even pathological liars are not necessarily sociopaths.

As a lawyer I can tell you that prosecuting attorneys will always be able to find a psychiatrist to describe a defendant as having sociopathic tendencies. Many people who are later found to be absolutely innocent have been described that way. I'm NOT saying that Anthony is innocent, I'm just saying that having a paid gun of a shrink describe someone as a sociopath is pretty meaningless.

And it is a disservice to abuse survivors to state that an abusive childhood causes sociopathy. There is really no one answer that question. Mental illness strikes people from all backgrounds.

I agree with you, but Casey's actions, possibly killing her daughter or at the least, knowing she was dead and going about her daily life unfettered, signals some deep mental issues that are likely very rare. And her pattern of lies and deception...it was chilling hearing the details she went into of blatant lies. So you are right she may not be a sociopath but clearly there is something very serious and rare going on to drive this pattern of behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read two books about this recently. Th Sociopath Next Door, and , Without Conscience. Fascinating, and chilling.

I think basically some people (up to one out of 25!) are just born that way. Nurture can intensify or mitigate some of the outward manifestations of anti social behavior. Not all sociopaths are murderers. Not all murderers are sociopaths. It's a very unique thing - the inability to have empathy for others.

ITA, This is what I have read too.

Baby they are born that way. IMO Casey Anthony is a great example. I don't think it's a mental illness in that sociopaths cannot be responsible for their actions. They know right from wrong, they just don't care. Quite a shitty hand to be dealt as a parent.

[Anonymous]

I don't think she's a true sociopath because she has shown some emotion on the stand. The tears appear to be real, and if they are I believe she is crying for herself. I do not understand how anyone could just throw their own child away like garbage. It's so bizarre to see all those smiling photos of the 2 of them, looking honestly happy and having fun. To know she could just turn like that, when she decided she didn't want to have the responsibility any more. Even in my worst moments of frustration with my child, I just can't fathom this. And yet it happens. Why didn't she just ask her parents to take over? Killing her own kid was better than living with them judging her for being a bad parent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, Casey Anthony is not necessarily a sociopath. True sociopaths are very rare. Just because someone lies and murders does not mean they have no conscience and no ability to feel guilty. You're talking about an extremely rare case when you discuss a sociopath. Even pathological liars are not necessarily sociopaths.

As a lawyer I can tell you that prosecuting attorneys will always be able to find a psychiatrist to describe a defendant as having sociopathic tendencies. Many people who are later found to be absolutely innocent have been described that way. I'm NOT saying that Anthony is innocent, I'm just saying that having a paid gun of a shrink describe someone as a sociopath is pretty meaningless.

And it is a disservice to abuse survivors to state that an abusive childhood causes sociopathy. There is really no one answer that question. Mental illness strikes people from all backgrounds.

I am not following the CA trial and have no idea what stage it is in. However, in the sentencing phase of a trial, prosecutors almost always call an expert to testify that the defendant is a sociopath and has no conscience. This is different from introducing evidence of mental illness/imcompetence. It is meant to show a lack of remorse that triggers a higher standard of punishment -- i.e., the death penalty.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why they want to call to the stand that known criminal who has been in jail for kidnapping before, who supposedly called Mr. Anthony's cell phone? Are they going to say, well, if you don't believe the drowning in the pool story, how about this other story?

[Anonymous]

I don't mean to defed the garden variety sociopath, but, one of the books I read raised the question - if sociopaths are biologically incapable of having a conscience, should they be held to the same standards as the rest of us?

Sociopaths can be taught to behave like the rest of us. They understand they have to act normal or life becomes uncomfortable FOR THEM. They just don't feel for others the way we do. So in those pictures, Casey can appear to be a loving, normal mother, because she is able to mimic the behavior she's seen. She just doesn't really FEEL the intense love and empathy the rest of us do. That is exactly why she is able to dispose of her child like she was another one of her possessions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read two books about this recently. Th Sociopath Next Door, and , Without Conscience. Fascinating, and chilling.

I think basically some people (up to one out of 25!) are just born that way. Nurture can intensify or mitigate some of the outward manifestations of anti social behavior. Not all sociopaths are murderers. Not all murderers are sociopaths. It's a very unique thing - the inability to have empathy for others.

ITA, my father is a psychopath. He is not physically dangerous, but leaves a path of emotional destruction in his wake. MOST psychopaths and sociopaths are not murderous, in fact, it is very rare when they are.

He was born that way-all of them are. If you have a child who is a psychopath it is important to identify early and try to manage. They do NOT respond to negative concequences, but only respond to positive stimuli (ie, if I do this, then I will get that, NOT if I do this, then I will get in trouble). Psychopaths do whatever pleases them without regard to how they are harming others, which might be the case for Casey...daughter got in her way and she removed the object. Psychopaths are pathalogical liars, which Casey obviously is.

It is great that you have read these books. I can pick a psychopath out pretty fast. It is very important to be able to identify one when you encounter one, as to not get sucked into their charm and self promoting lies. They are EVERYWHERE.

Personally, I do not think it is a mental illness AT ALL. They are quite happy with themselves and think unusually quite highly of themselves. Their self confidence and arrogance is unparalleled.

[Anonymous]

Brain chemistry. Sometimes sociopaths have suffered no known abuse/trauma in childhood. There is something wrong at birth with brain development or a brain injury.