Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is odd that people would criticize the 911 caller, who was just trying to look out for the kids, regardless of whether he overestimated or underestimated their ages and abilities. It is really up to the police to determine whether anything inappropriate or neglectful was going on once they got there. If a random citizen is in doubt, they should contact the authorities and let the authorities deal with it from there.

I agree. There are many possibilities that could have been at play here. This gentleman called the people who knew more about handling such situations than he presumably did. Most of us are not social workers who have experience in working with children and families.

Yes. If only the people who know more about handling such situations had actually handled the situation properly.

Which you somehow think you are more expert at judging than they are.

If they think that kids walking home constitutes child neglect, then yes, I am more expert at judging than they are.

How the fuck was he supposed to know where they were going? He saw kids without adults around, he was concerned, he called 911.
He was more concerned about not doing something if there was a possible bad situation, than some idiots on the internet thinking he was wrong and should mind their own business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm starting to lose patience with really dumb questions. Really, really dumb. Of course there are adults around. But do you know those adults around? Are there 40 adults around, in which case we can figure at least some of them will notice something if it's unsafe for your kids? Or are there 2 adults around, one who looks drunk/high and the other is jogging with his earphones on and not paying any attention? Those are different scenarios. Of course day/night/populated/unpopulated makes a difference. As do a million other factors in the surroundings, the kids themselves, etc. And you know who's in a better place to judge that than random people on the internet? The actual people who were there. The caller. The cop. Seriously. This isn't that hard.

It just doesn't make sense to me. On the one hand, we're supposed to assume that anybody might be a predator out to get us. On the other hand, we're also supposed to assume that some random guy with a dog is a reasonable person who made a rational assessment of the situation.

Wow, you're dense. No one is saying the parents should leave the kids with this caller. We are saying the caller's observation is more meaningful than the speculation of internet posters who weren't there. NO one's saying remove custody due to the caller's observation. But DO follow up on his call and investigate. Which is what happened.

Has anybody said that the police shouldn't have followed up on his call?

Yes. People have said over and over again that they should have just asked the kids if they were on their way home and then left them alone. Or driven them home, right back to the very parents that put them in the situation that needs to be investigated. Duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm starting to lose patience with really dumb questions. Really, really dumb. Of course there are adults around. But do you know those adults around? Are there 40 adults around, in which case we can figure at least some of them will notice something if it's unsafe for your kids? Or are there 2 adults around, one who looks drunk/high and the other is jogging with his earphones on and not paying any attention? Those are different scenarios. Of course day/night/populated/unpopulated makes a difference. As do a million other factors in the surroundings, the kids themselves, etc. And you know who's in a better place to judge that than random people on the internet? The actual people who were there. The caller. The cop. Seriously. This isn't that hard.

It just doesn't make sense to me. On the one hand, we're supposed to assume that anybody might be a predator out to get us. On the other hand, we're also supposed to assume that some random guy with a dog is a reasonable person who made a rational assessment of the situation.

Wow, you're dense. No one is saying the parents should leave the kids with this caller. We are saying the caller's observation is more meaningful than the speculation of internet posters who weren't there. NO one's saying remove custody due to the caller's observation. But DO follow up on his call and investigate. Which is what happened.

Has anybody said that the police shouldn't have followed up on his call?

Yes. People have said over and over again that they should have just asked the kids if they were on their way home and then left them alone. Or driven them home, right back to the very parents that put them in the situation that needs to be investigated. Duh.

Yep, just like they did the first time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is odd that people would criticize the 911 caller, who was just trying to look out for the kids, regardless of whether he overestimated or underestimated their ages and abilities. It is really up to the police to determine whether anything inappropriate or neglectful was going on once they got there. If a random citizen is in doubt, they should contact the authorities and let the authorities deal with it from there.

I agree. There are many possibilities that could have been at play here. This gentleman called the people who knew more about handling such situations than he presumably did. Most of us are not social workers who have experience in working with children and families.

Yes. If only the people who know more about handling such situations had actually handled the situation properly.

Which you somehow think you are more expert at judging than they are.

If they think that kids walking home constitutes child neglect, then yes, I am more expert at judging than they are.

How the fuck was he supposed to know where they were going? He saw kids without adults around, he was concerned, he called 911.
He was more concerned about not doing something if there was a possible bad situation, than some idiots on the internet thinking he was wrong and should mind their own business.

Yep. Exactly. He's a good person. These people want everyone to just ignore each others' kids and MYOB. That's how Relisha Rudd happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm starting to lose patience with really dumb questions. Really, really dumb. Of course there are adults around. But do you know those adults around? Are there 40 adults around, in which case we can figure at least some of them will notice something if it's unsafe for your kids? Or are there 2 adults around, one who looks drunk/high and the other is jogging with his earphones on and not paying any attention? Those are different scenarios. Of course day/night/populated/unpopulated makes a difference. As do a million other factors in the surroundings, the kids themselves, etc. And you know who's in a better place to judge that than random people on the internet? The actual people who were there. The caller. The cop. Seriously. This isn't that hard.

It just doesn't make sense to me. On the one hand, we're supposed to assume that anybody might be a predator out to get us. On the other hand, we're also supposed to assume that some random guy with a dog is a reasonable person who made a rational assessment of the situation.

Wow, you're dense. No one is saying the parents should leave the kids with this caller. We are saying the caller's observation is more meaningful than the speculation of internet posters who weren't there. NO one's saying remove custody due to the caller's observation. But DO follow up on his call and investigate. Which is what happened.

Has anybody said that the police shouldn't have followed up on his call?

Yes. People have said over and over again that they should have just asked the kids if they were on their way home and then left them alone. Or driven them home, right back to the very parents that put them in the situation that needs to be investigated. Duh.

Yep, just like they did the first time.

Yep, at which point the opened an investigation, investigated, and couldn't rule out neglect. Then they got another call about the kids. Would you just drive them home in that scenario? Or would you feel obligated to look into it more first? I sure would. I would feel morally obligated (not to mention legally) to make damn sure that I wasn't failing those kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is odd that people would criticize the 911 caller, who was just trying to look out for the kids, regardless of whether he overestimated or underestimated their ages and abilities. It is really up to the police to determine whether anything inappropriate or neglectful was going on once they got there. If a random citizen is in doubt, they should contact the authorities and let the authorities deal with it from there.

I agree. There are many possibilities that could have been at play here. This gentleman called the people who knew more about handling such situations than he presumably did. Most of us are not social workers who have experience in working with children and families.

Yes. If only the people who know more about handling such situations had actually handled the situation properly.

Which you somehow think you are more expert at judging than they are.

If they think that kids walking home constitutes child neglect, then yes, I am more expert at judging than they are.

How the fuck was he supposed to know where they were going? He saw kids without adults around, he was concerned, he called 911.
He was more concerned about not doing something if there was a possible bad situation, than some idiots on the internet thinking he was wrong and should mind their own business.

Yep. Exactly. He's a good person. These people want everyone to just ignore each others' kids and MYOB. That's how Relisha Rudd happens.

On the one hand, looking out for the kids by calling the police, who come and pick them up and hold them for 5 hours and potentially start an investigation by CPS; on the other hand, look the other way and then Relisha Rudd.

Or some middle-of-the-road third option, such as keeping an eye on the kids in case some unsavory person approaches them with ill intent, asking them where their parents/house is/are when they politely ask to pet a dog, stalking them for 10 more minutes back to their house, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is odd that people would criticize the 911 caller, who was just trying to look out for the kids, regardless of whether he overestimated or underestimated their ages and abilities. It is really up to the police to determine whether anything inappropriate or neglectful was going on once they got there. If a random citizen is in doubt, they should contact the authorities and let the authorities deal with it from there.

I agree. There are many possibilities that could have been at play here. This gentleman called the people who knew more about handling such situations than he presumably did. Most of us are not social workers who have experience in working with children and families.

Yes. If only the people who know more about handling such situations had actually handled the situation properly.

Which you somehow think you are more expert at judging than they are.

If they think that kids walking home constitutes child neglect, then yes, I am more expert at judging than they are.

How the fuck was he supposed to know where they were going? He saw kids without adults around, he was concerned, he called 911.
He was more concerned about not doing something if there was a possible bad situation, than some idiots on the internet thinking he was wrong and should mind their own business.

Yep. Exactly. He's a good person. These people want everyone to just ignore each others' kids and MYOB. That's how Relisha Rudd happens.

On the one hand, looking out for the kids by calling the police, who come and pick them up and hold them for 5 hours and potentially start an investigation by CPS; on the other hand, look the other way and then Relisha Rudd.

Or some middle-of-the-road third option, such as keeping an eye on the kids in case some unsavory person approaches them with ill intent, asking them where their parents/house is/are when they politely ask to pet a dog, stalking them for 10 more minutes back to their house, etc.

That sounds like he basically did that, only when he realized they weren't continuing on a path toward somewhere (taking a detour in parking lot and then behind a building) he really couldn't. Should he have followed them behind the building? I wouldn't. That's definitely marking yourself for accusations of creepiness. I don't think he felt comfortable asking where their parents were or where they lived because he didn't want to be accused of stalking them. But he followed from a distance because he was worried about them. If he were a creep, he wouldn't have called 911. I could see my DH doing something similar. As a man, you really kind of worry about approaching or questioning kids who are alone and who don't know you, even with pure intentions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just listened to the 911 tape and so glad that there are people like him in the community who was genuinely worried about these children and just called 911 to make sure they were ok. We should be giving him a hearty thank you instead of criticizing him.

.

Is there a link to the recording?

The recording is at the top of this article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/04/15/listen-to-the-911-call-that-led-cops-to-take-the-free-range-kids-into-custody/

Thank you. I listened to it and he sounds like a nice guy just trying to do the right thing. A couple times he says he didn't want to approach the kids because he didn't want to scare them. For seven minutes he is on the phone with the 911 dispatcher following the kids and relaying the basis for his concerns. People who are stalking kids do not do it while talking on the phone with the police department, so I'm not sure why people are referring to this man as stalking the two children. This man spent a lot of time on his Sunday afternoon making sure two children he didn't know were safe.

[Anonymous]

I think parents for the most part know their kids and what boundaries they need to set for them and when they can give them their space. I really don't think it does society or these kids any good to have busy bodies second-guessing the judgment of parents.

Clearly the kids were not in peril. The 911 operator who answered the call should have told the guy to call the local police department and to keep the line clear for real emergencies.

If given an opportunity to think this through I don't think anyone, including the guy who made the call, believes that these kids are safer or better off with CPS than with their parents.

Also, I wonder if the guy had known what was to come next - highly irresponsible actions on the part of the police and CPS to basically kidnap these kids - he would have actually made the call.

I hope the parents lawyer up and sue the county for unlawful imprisonment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think parents for the most part know their kids and what boundaries they need to set for them and when they can give them their space. I really don't think it does society or these kids any good to have busy bodies second-guessing the judgment of parents.

Clearly the kids were not in peril. The 911 operator who answered the call should have told the guy to call the local police department and to keep the line clear for real emergencies.

If given an opportunity to think this through I don't think anyone, including the guy who made the call, believes that these kids are safer or better off with CPS than with their parents.

Also, I wonder if the guy had known what was to come next - highly irresponsible actions on the part of the police and CPS to basically kidnap these kids - he would have actually made the call.

I hope the parents lawyer up and sue the county for unlawful imprisonment.

They did and they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think parents for the most part know their kids and what boundaries they need to set for them and when they can give them their space. I really don't think it does society or these kids any good to have busy bodies second-guessing the judgment of parents.

Clearly the kids were not in peril. The 911 operator who answered the call should have told the guy to call the local police department and to keep the line clear for real emergencies.

If given an opportunity to think this through I don't think anyone, including the guy who made the call, believes that these kids are safer or better off with CPS than with their parents.

Also, I wonder if the guy had known what was to come next - highly irresponsible actions on the part of the police and CPS to basically kidnap these kids - he would have actually made the call.

I hope the parents lawyer up and sue the county for unlawful imprisonment.

Oh, well, if parents know best then I guess child neglect and abuse just don't exist and we should never investigate. It apparently wasn't clear to the caller, or the previous caller, or the police, or CPS that the kids were not in peril. It's clear to you, I guess, though you haven't investigated, didn't see any of it, and don't know them. I think I'm good with dismissing your POV then.
You also need to look up "kidnapping". Since the police and CPS had the authority to detain the kids under law, there's no kidnapping. Also, kidnappers don't usually call a couple hours later and return the kids. Except I guess in your la la land.

[Anonymous]

Agree this man was genuinely concerned and rightly so. He spent that much time of his afternoon trying to keep an eye on them out of concern for their safety.

It makes me so happy to know that there are such caring people out there. Imagine if something actually had happened to these kids while walking around for so long unaccompanied or if something could have happened to them if this man had not watched them and called the police. What if they never actually would have made it home? It's happened to plenty, these kids aren't immune to it.

Makes me shudder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think parents for the most part know their kids and what boundaries they need to set for them and when they can give them their space. I really don't think it does society or these kids any good to have busy bodies second-guessing the judgment of parents.

Clearly the kids were not in peril. The 911 operator who answered the call should have told the guy to call the local police department and to keep the line clear for real emergencies.

If given an opportunity to think this through I don't think anyone, including the guy who made the call, believes that these kids are safer or better off with CPS than with their parents.

Also, I wonder if the guy had known what was to come next - highly irresponsible actions on the part of the police and CPS to basically kidnap these kids - he would have actually made the call.

I hope the parents lawyer up and sue the county for unlawful imprisonment.

They did and they are.

Yep. I think they don't have a legal leg to stand on, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That kid doesn't look ten. My 11 year old is 5 feet tall.

A 6-year-old girl in the 97th percentile for height is about 49 inches tall. So is a 10-year-old girl in the 3rd percentile for height. If you saw a 97% six-year-old and a 3% ten-year-old standing next to each other, do you think you'd be able to figure out which girl was which? I sure hope you would.

No. And I have a tall 6 year old. Everyone thinks she's 8. She also talks like she's 10. And I'm certain a man with no kids might not be able to tell.

I have a small 10 year old, he gets mistaken for much younger all the time. He has a 7 year old brother, most people think they're twins. Even people with kids.

So I absolutely would not expect a childless man would be able to accurately guess a child's age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think parents for the most part know their kids and what boundaries they need to set for them and when they can give them their space. I really don't think it does society or these kids any good to have busy bodies second-guessing the judgment of parents.

Clearly the kids were not in peril. The 911 operator who answered the call should have told the guy to call the local police department and to keep the line clear for real emergencies.

If given an opportunity to think this through I don't think anyone, including the guy who made the call, believes that these kids are safer or better off with CPS than with their parents.

Also, I wonder if the guy had known what was to come next - highly irresponsible actions on the part of the police and CPS to basically kidnap these kids - he would have actually made the call.

I hope the parents lawyer up and sue the county for unlawful imprisonment.

Oh, well, if parents know best then I guess child neglect and abuse just don't exist and we should never investigate. It apparently wasn't clear to the caller, or the previous caller, or the police, or CPS that the kids were not in peril. It's clear to you, I guess, though you haven't investigated, didn't see any of it, and don't know them. I think I'm good with dismissing your POV then.
You also need to look up "kidnapping". Since the police and CPS had the authority to detain the kids under law, there's no kidnapping. Also, kidnappers don't usually call a couple hours later and return the kids. Except I guess in your la la land.

You're ridiculous and I don't give a shit if you dismiss my POV.