Options for opposing Connecticut Avenue changes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

What additional enforcement? The bike lanes will be protected - ie, there is a physical barrier between those and the car lanes. And since you claim traffic will be a nightmare, then there won't be more speeding. Voila.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

They won't be forced into overcrowded traffic lanes. They'll be forced to get off their bikes and walk around the delivery vans in the bike lane or to bike very slowly between the van and the edge of the bike lane, like they do already when cars block the bike lanes. And anyway, if the traffic lanes are as overcrowded as you fear, the bikes will be going as fast as the cars are, and it won't slow things down much.

Right. So after a few days of continuously having to start and stop on their bikes they will get back in their car.

Right because that's what already happens now when bike commuters encounter parked cars in bike lanes? No. They'll keep biking and being annoyed about it, and posting to the Twitter accounts that you seem to spend a lot of time looking at for someone who finds the very idea of commuting to work by bicycle to be absurd and/or offensive.

Yes, the 50 current bikers will do that. But the projected other 2950 will not.

It's not directly comparable, but the R street bike lane is showing strong ridership as well. That is an unprotected lane right next to car drivers on a one way road, so would get spray from rain and salt. Peak ridership on it is about a third higher than during the slower months, with the exception of the last and first week of the year where ridership drops to nearly nothing (hmm, I wonder why! Probably not the weather!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

Oh what wicked webs we weave

The claimed 1,067% increase in bicycle commuting is the linchpin of the claims that there will only be 7,000+ extra vehicles on side streets and only an 8 minute increase in travel time. It is also the linchpin behind the claims that bicycling will replace driving instead of walking.

Both of the bolded items are lies that have been repeatedly debunked with citations in this thread.

No they haven't. Both of those things are directly from DDOT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

They won't be forced into overcrowded traffic lanes. They'll be forced to get off their bikes and walk around the delivery vans in the bike lane or to bike very slowly between the van and the edge of the bike lane, like they do already when cars block the bike lanes. And anyway, if the traffic lanes are as overcrowded as you fear, the bikes will be going as fast as the cars are, and it won't slow things down much.

Right. So after a few days of continuously having to start and stop on their bikes they will get back in their car.

Right because that's what already happens now when bike commuters encounter parked cars in bike lanes? No. They'll keep biking and being annoyed about it, and posting to the Twitter accounts that you seem to spend a lot of time looking at for someone who finds the very idea of commuting to work by bicycle to be absurd and/or offensive.

Yes, the 50 current bikers will do that. But the projected other 2950 will not.

It's not directly comparable, but the R street bike lane is showing strong ridership as well. That is an unprotected lane right next to car drivers on a one way road, so would get spray from rain and salt. Peak ridership on it is about a third higher than during the slower months, with the exception of the last and first week of the year where ridership drops to nearly nothing (hmm, I wonder why! Probably not the weather!).

You need to post evidence. The DDOT hasn’t collected counter data for R Street since July 2020 and at that time it was at all time lows. So you’re just making up stats, which is pretty sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

Oh what wicked webs we weave

The claimed 1,067% increase in bicycle commuting is the linchpin of the claims that there will only be 7,000+ extra vehicles on side streets and only an 8 minute increase in travel time. It is also the linchpin behind the claims that bicycling will replace driving instead of walking.

Both of the bolded items are lies that have been repeatedly debunked with citations in this thread.

No they haven't. Both of those things are directly from DDOT

The parsing of those numbers have been explained, in detail, in at least three places in this thread, yet in a Trumpian manner, continue to repeat the falsehood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

They won't be forced into overcrowded traffic lanes. They'll be forced to get off their bikes and walk around the delivery vans in the bike lane or to bike very slowly between the van and the edge of the bike lane, like they do already when cars block the bike lanes. And anyway, if the traffic lanes are as overcrowded as you fear, the bikes will be going as fast as the cars are, and it won't slow things down much.

Right. So after a few days of continuously having to start and stop on their bikes they will get back in their car.

Right because that's what already happens now when bike commuters encounter parked cars in bike lanes? No. They'll keep biking and being annoyed about it, and posting to the Twitter accounts that you seem to spend a lot of time looking at for someone who finds the very idea of commuting to work by bicycle to be absurd and/or offensive.

Yes, the 50 current bikers will do that. But the projected other 2950 will not.

It's not directly comparable, but the R street bike lane is showing strong ridership as well. That is an unprotected lane right next to car drivers on a one way road, so would get spray from rain and salt. Peak ridership on it is about a third higher than during the slower months, with the exception of the last and first week of the year where ridership drops to nearly nothing (hmm, I wonder why! Probably not the weather!).

You need to post evidence. The DDOT hasn’t collected counter data for R Street since July 2020 and at that time it was at all time lows. So you’re just making up stats, which is pretty sad.

They have data on their tableau tool that is consistent from August 2019 through July of 2021. You are making an argument about seasonality in ridership. There are two winters in that data, both of which show only about a third of a drop in ridership relative to the autumn weather right before it. I would post a screenshot but I can't figure out how to. The 2019 winter was averaging about mid 500s per week day, compared to the 2019 summer of a out 850 per weekday. That is right at two thirds like I said. The 2020 winter was like mid to low 300s per weekday compared to the mid 500s in autumn right before it, which is 60%>. So no, you're just wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

They won't be forced into overcrowded traffic lanes. They'll be forced to get off their bikes and walk around the delivery vans in the bike lane or to bike very slowly between the van and the edge of the bike lane, like they do already when cars block the bike lanes. And anyway, if the traffic lanes are as overcrowded as you fear, the bikes will be going as fast as the cars are, and it won't slow things down much.

Right. So after a few days of continuously having to start and stop on their bikes they will get back in their car.

Right because that's what already happens now when bike commuters encounter parked cars in bike lanes? No. They'll keep biking and being annoyed about it, and posting to the Twitter accounts that you seem to spend a lot of time looking at for someone who finds the very idea of commuting to work by bicycle to be absurd and/or offensive.

Yes, the 50 current bikers will do that. But the projected other 2950 will not.

It's not directly comparable, but the R street bike lane is showing strong ridership as well. That is an unprotected lane right next to car drivers on a one way road, so would get spray from rain and salt. Peak ridership on it is about a third higher than during the slower months, with the exception of the last and first week of the year where ridership drops to nearly nothing (hmm, I wonder why! Probably not the weather!).

You need to post evidence. The DDOT hasn’t collected counter data for R Street since July 2020 and at that time it was at all time lows. So you’re just making up stats, which is pretty sad.

They have data on their tableau tool that is consistent from August 2019 through July of 2021. You are making an argument about seasonality in ridership. There are two winters in that data, both of which show only about a third of a drop in ridership relative to the autumn weather right before it. I would post a screenshot but I can't figure out how to. The 2019 winter was averaging about mid 500s per week day, compared to the 2019 summer of an out 850 per weekday. That is right at two thirds like I said. The 2020 winter was like mid to low 300s per weekday compared to the mid 500s in autumn right before it, which is 60%>. So no, you're just wrong.

They don’t have any bike counter data for R Street since July 2020. I’m not making any arguments about anything. I’m pointing out that you are making up data to support your arguments, aka lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

They won't be forced into overcrowded traffic lanes. They'll be forced to get off their bikes and walk around the delivery vans in the bike lane or to bike very slowly between the van and the edge of the bike lane, like they do already when cars block the bike lanes. And anyway, if the traffic lanes are as overcrowded as you fear, the bikes will be going as fast as the cars are, and it won't slow things down much.

Right. So after a few days of continuously having to start and stop on their bikes they will get back in their car.

Right because that's what already happens now when bike commuters encounter parked cars in bike lanes? No. They'll keep biking and being annoyed about it, and posting to the Twitter accounts that you seem to spend a lot of time looking at for someone who finds the very idea of commuting to work by bicycle to be absurd and/or offensive.

Yes, the 50 current bikers will do that. But the projected other 2950 will not.

It's not directly comparable, but the R street bike lane is showing strong ridership as well. That is an unprotected lane right next to car drivers on a one way road, so would get spray from rain and salt. Peak ridership on it is about a third higher than during the slower months, with the exception of the last and first week of the year where ridership drops to nearly nothing (hmm, I wonder why! Probably not the weather!).

You need to post evidence. The DDOT hasn’t collected counter data for R Street since July 2020 and at that time it was at all time lows. So you’re just making up stats, which is pretty sad.

They have data on their tableau tool that is consistent from August 2019 through July of 2021. You are making an argument about seasonality in ridership. There are two winters in that data, both of which show only about a third of a drop in ridership relative to the autumn weather right before it. I would post a screenshot but I can't figure out how to. The 2019 winter was averaging about mid 500s per week day, compared to the 2019 summer of a out 850 per weekday. That is right at two thirds like I said. The 2020 winter was like mid to low 300s per weekday compared to the mid 500s in autumn right before it, which is 60%>. So no, you're just wrong.

Was there anything else going on from 8/19 to 7/21? Oh, I know, I life threatening respiratory virus that kept people off public transportation. Let’s see what happens to the data post booster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

They won't be forced into overcrowded traffic lanes. They'll be forced to get off their bikes and walk around the delivery vans in the bike lane or to bike very slowly between the van and the edge of the bike lane, like they do already when cars block the bike lanes. And anyway, if the traffic lanes are as overcrowded as you fear, the bikes will be going as fast as the cars are, and it won't slow things down much.

Right. So after a few days of continuously having to start and stop on their bikes they will get back in their car.

Right because that's what already happens now when bike commuters encounter parked cars in bike lanes? No. They'll keep biking and being annoyed about it, and posting to the Twitter accounts that you seem to spend a lot of time looking at for someone who finds the very idea of commuting to work by bicycle to be absurd and/or offensive.

Yes, the 50 current bikers will do that. But the projected other 2950 will not.

It's not directly comparable, but the R street bike lane is showing strong ridership as well. That is an unprotected lane right next to car drivers on a one way road, so would get spray from rain and salt. Peak ridership on it is about a third higher than during the slower months, with the exception of the last and first week of the year where ridership drops to nearly nothing (hmm, I wonder why! Probably not the weather!).

You need to post evidence. The DDOT hasn’t collected counter data for R Street since July 2020 and at that time it was at all time lows. So you’re just making up stats, which is pretty sad.

There are plenty of other non-protected bike lanes that have data after 2022. The Columbia Road bike counter registered about 18,000 riders in October 2019 and about 17,000 in February 2020, which doesn't seem to represent much of a seasonal dropoff.

Ridership did drop during 2020 for some odd reason.

But December 2021 saw about 8,000 riders, and then January 2022 about 5,000 and February 2022 about 6,000.

So are there fewer riders in the dead of winter than there are in the fall or summer? Yes. But do people simply cease riding bikes altogether if they're at risk of getting road salt sprayed on them or whatever? No, clearly not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

They won't be forced into overcrowded traffic lanes. They'll be forced to get off their bikes and walk around the delivery vans in the bike lane or to bike very slowly between the van and the edge of the bike lane, like they do already when cars block the bike lanes. And anyway, if the traffic lanes are as overcrowded as you fear, the bikes will be going as fast as the cars are, and it won't slow things down much.

Right. So after a few days of continuously having to start and stop on their bikes they will get back in their car.

Right because that's what already happens now when bike commuters encounter parked cars in bike lanes? No. They'll keep biking and being annoyed about it, and posting to the Twitter accounts that you seem to spend a lot of time looking at for someone who finds the very idea of commuting to work by bicycle to be absurd and/or offensive.

Yes, the 50 current bikers will do that. But the projected other 2950 will not.

It's not directly comparable, but the R street bike lane is showing strong ridership as well. That is an unprotected lane right next to car drivers on a one way road, so would get spray from rain and salt. Peak ridership on it is about a third higher than during the slower months, with the exception of the last and first week of the year where ridership drops to nearly nothing (hmm, I wonder why! Probably not the weather!).

You need to post evidence. The DDOT hasn’t collected counter data for R Street since July 2020 and at that time it was at all time lows. So you’re just making up stats, which is pretty sad.

There are plenty of other non-protected bike lanes that have data after 2022. The Columbia Road bike counter registered about 18,000 riders in October 2019 and about 17,000 in February 2020, which doesn't seem to represent much of a seasonal dropoff.

Ridership did drop during 2020 for some odd reason.

But December 2021 saw about 8,000 riders, and then January 2022 about 5,000 and February 2022 about 6,000.

So are there fewer riders in the dead of winter than there are in the fall or summer? Yes. But do people simply cease riding bikes altogether if they're at risk of getting road salt sprayed on them or whatever? No, clearly not.

I have no idea what you are arguing about now. You claimed that utilization of R Street has increased lately, which is something that you made up because there is no data to back it up. So you’re a liar. I don’t care about seasonality or whatever else you are taking about. You’re just trying to save face from being exposed.

BTW, from September 2021 to September 2023 MBT has lost two-thirds of its riders. So if you build it apparently they come and then immediately leave.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

They won't be forced into overcrowded traffic lanes. They'll be forced to get off their bikes and walk around the delivery vans in the bike lane or to bike very slowly between the van and the edge of the bike lane, like they do already when cars block the bike lanes. And anyway, if the traffic lanes are as overcrowded as you fear, the bikes will be going as fast as the cars are, and it won't slow things down much.

Right. So after a few days of continuously having to start and stop on their bikes they will get back in their car.

Right because that's what already happens now when bike commuters encounter parked cars in bike lanes? No. They'll keep biking and being annoyed about it, and posting to the Twitter accounts that you seem to spend a lot of time looking at for someone who finds the very idea of commuting to work by bicycle to be absurd and/or offensive.

Yes, the 50 current bikers will do that. But the projected other 2950 will not.

It's not directly comparable, but the R street bike lane is showing strong ridership as well. That is an unprotected lane right next to car drivers on a one way road, so would get spray from rain and salt. Peak ridership on it is about a third higher than during the slower months, with the exception of the last and first week of the year where ridership drops to nearly nothing (hmm, I wonder why! Probably not the weather!).

You need to post evidence. The DDOT hasn’t collected counter data for R Street since July 2020 and at that time it was at all time lows. So you’re just making up stats, which is pretty sad.

There are plenty of other non-protected bike lanes that have data after 2022. The Columbia Road bike counter registered about 18,000 riders in October 2019 and about 17,000 in February 2020, which doesn't seem to represent much of a seasonal dropoff.

Ridership did drop during 2020 for some odd reason.

But December 2021 saw about 8,000 riders, and then January 2022 about 5,000 and February 2022 about 6,000.

So are there fewer riders in the dead of winter than there are in the fall or summer? Yes. But do people simply cease riding bikes altogether if they're at risk of getting road salt sprayed on them or whatever? No, clearly not.

I have no idea what you are arguing about now. You claimed that utilization of R Street has increased lately, which is something that you made up because there is no data to back it up. So you’re a liar. I don’t care about seasonality or whatever else you are taking about. You’re just trying to save face from being exposed.

BTW, from September 2021 to September 2023 MBT has lost two-thirds of its riders. So if you build it apparently they come and then immediately leave.

No, I was a different poster than the one you accused of lying. You were talking about seasonality. Which this data shows isn’t a major issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

They won't be forced into overcrowded traffic lanes. They'll be forced to get off their bikes and walk around the delivery vans in the bike lane or to bike very slowly between the van and the edge of the bike lane, like they do already when cars block the bike lanes. And anyway, if the traffic lanes are as overcrowded as you fear, the bikes will be going as fast as the cars are, and it won't slow things down much.

Right. So after a few days of continuously having to start and stop on their bikes they will get back in their car.

Right because that's what already happens now when bike commuters encounter parked cars in bike lanes? No. They'll keep biking and being annoyed about it, and posting to the Twitter accounts that you seem to spend a lot of time looking at for someone who finds the very idea of commuting to work by bicycle to be absurd and/or offensive.

Yes, the 50 current bikers will do that. But the projected other 2950 will not.

It's not directly comparable, but the R street bike lane is showing strong ridership as well. That is an unprotected lane right next to car drivers on a one way road, so would get spray from rain and salt. Peak ridership on it is about a third higher than during the slower months, with the exception of the last and first week of the year where ridership drops to nearly nothing (hmm, I wonder why! Probably not the weather!).

You need to post evidence. The DDOT hasn’t collected counter data for R Street since July 2020 and at that time it was at all time lows. So you’re just making up stats, which is pretty sad.

There are plenty of other non-protected bike lanes that have data after 2022. The Columbia Road bike counter registered about 18,000 riders in October 2019 and about 17,000 in February 2020, which doesn't seem to represent much of a seasonal dropoff.

Ridership did drop during 2020 for some odd reason.

But December 2021 saw about 8,000 riders, and then January 2022 about 5,000 and February 2022 about 6,000.

So are there fewer riders in the dead of winter than there are in the fall or summer? Yes. But do people simply cease riding bikes altogether if they're at risk of getting road salt sprayed on them or whatever? No, clearly not.

I have no idea what you are arguing about now. You claimed that utilization of R Street has increased lately, which is something that you made up because there is no data to back it up. So you’re a liar. I don’t care about seasonality or whatever else you are taking about. You’re just trying to save face from being exposed.

BTW, from September 2021 to September 2023 MBT has lost two-thirds of its riders. So if you build it apparently they come and then immediately leave.

No, I was a different poster than the one you accused of lying. You were talking about seasonality. Which this data shows isn’t a major issue.

You’re arguing with someone else.

But if you do want to discuss YoY changes you need to be ready to discuss the massive drop off in MBT utilization in just one year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

Oh what wicked webs we weave

The claimed 1,067% increase in bicycle commuting is the linchpin of the claims that there will only be 7,000+ extra vehicles on side streets and only an 8 minute increase in travel time. It is also the linchpin behind the claims that bicycling will replace driving instead of walking.

Both of the bolded items are lies that have been repeatedly debunked with citations in this thread.

No they haven't. Both of those things are directly from DDOT

The parsing of those numbers have been explained, in detail, in at least three places in this thread, yet in a Trumpian manner, continue to repeat the falsehood.

No it hasn't. You're projecting again.

By the way, DDOT's projections have threw key caveats that you're not mentioning. They don't happen until 2045. They assume 3,000 vehicles will be replaced by bicycles and only 200 by public transport. And they assume that no changes from 2019 happen. No huge development at Chevy Chase Lake and no changes to 14th, 16th, Georgia or Beach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

Oh what wicked webs we weave

The claimed 1,067% increase in bicycle commuting is the linchpin of the claims that there will only be 7,000+ extra vehicles on side streets and only an 8 minute increase in travel time. It is also the linchpin behind the claims that bicycling will replace driving instead of walking.

Both of the bolded items are lies that have been repeatedly debunked with citations in this thread.

No they haven't. Both of those things are directly from DDOT

The parsing of those numbers have been explained, in detail, in at least three places in this thread, yet in a Trumpian manner, continue to repeat the falsehood.

No it hasn't. You're projecting again.

By the way, DDOT's projections have threw key caveats that you're not mentioning. They don't happen until 2045. They assume 3,000 vehicles will be replaced by bicycles and only 200 by public transport. And they assume that no changes from 2019 happen. No huge development at Chevy Chase Lake and no changes to 14th, 16th, Georgia or Beach.

Wait, what doesn’t happen until 2045? The bike lanes? If that’s the case, why is anyone upset about them in 2022, a full 23 years in advance? If you mean the shift in mode from car to bike by 3,000 vehicles happens by then, sure, that seems plausible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

But that’s exactly why the bike lanes won’t work. Adding bike lanes will require ADDITIONAL enforcement. And, as you correctly note, DC can’t enforce what it already has. Just scroll through the bike mafia Twitter accounts and you’ll see daily hysterical posts about cars, delivery trucks, Ubers, emergency vehicles all parked in bike lines, protected and unprotected. What’s CT going to be like when 3000 bikes a day are forced into overcrowded traffic lanes because four Amazon vans are parked with their blinkers going across several blocks. So many things have to go right for this not to be a total cluster.

What additional enforcement? The bike lanes will be protected - ie, there is a physical barrier between those and the car lanes. And since you claim traffic will be a nightmare, then there won't be more speeding. Voila.

Any theories on how these UPS trucks keep ending up in the “protected” lanes?