2 Year Old Dragged into Water by Gator at Disney Resort

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, how often do you go to the beach? Are there signs warning you that there is dangerous wildlife in the ocean?

NP. I can't believe there are people who are still trying to press this point. There is a distinction between going to the ocean, where everyone understands that they are willingly entering the natural habitat of marine life and calculate risk accordingly, and going to DISNEY WORLD.

Disney is known to be a controlled environment where nothing is left to chance and everything is meticulously planned and run. Disney LIKES this reputation and has purposely cultivated it over its 40 years of operations. That's a major part of its appeal to tourists. No one is suggesting that people should abandon all common sense because "nothing bad can ever happen to you at Disney" but a reasonable person could certainly assume that, given that there aren't even mosquitoes at Disney because they spray so aggressively, there won't be dangerous, child-eating wildlife running around on Disney property without adequate warning.

Like many PP's have said, not everyone is from FL. Not everyone knows basic gator safety or really anything about gators, because they are a complete non-issue where we live. I'm a completely functioning, cautious, and educated person and had no idea prior to this thread that (1) it's a safe assumption that any freshwater in FL = gators; (2) gators feed at night; (3) gators hunt in shallow water and are confident to come up all the way to the shoreline - or pretty much any of the other gator-related information that has come up. I knew that they lived in Florida, but honestly had no idea that they were as common as they are. Without any warning about it, it would literally never occur to me that gators could be in a lagoon on Disney property. If it even did occur to me, I'd assume that Disney either figured out a way of removing/killing them all or blocked them from entering in the first place. Because I have no idea about FL wildlife laws or that this lagoon feeds into other water or that alligators climb through pipes. BECAUSE I'M NOT FROM FL OR ANYWHERE GATORS LIVE.

That's the point. People from all over the country and all over the world come to Disney. I would guess that most of these people are not from places where gators live, and therefore many of these people have little to no knowledge about gators. So putting up a sign for these people's benefit, especially considering that many/most visitors to Disney have young children, is the smart and responsible thing to do.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

[Anonymous]

Well said, PP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, how often do you go to the beach? Are there signs warning you that there is dangerous wildlife in the ocean?

NP. I can't believe there are people who are still trying to press this point. There is a distinction between going to the ocean, where everyone understands that they are willingly entering the natural habitat of marine life and calculate risk accordingly, and going to DISNEY WORLD.

Disney is known to be a controlled environment where nothing is left to chance and everything is meticulously planned and run. Disney LIKES this reputation and has purposely cultivated it over its 40 years of operations. That's a major part of its appeal to tourists. No one is suggesting that people should abandon all common sense because "nothing bad can ever happen to you at Disney" but a reasonable person could certainly assume that, given that there aren't even mosquitoes at Disney because they spray so aggressively, there won't be dangerous, child-eating wildlife running around on Disney property without adequate warning.

Like many PP's have said, not everyone is from FL. Not everyone knows basic gator safety or really anything about gators, because they are a complete non-issue where we live. I'm a completely functioning, cautious, and educated person and had no idea prior to this thread that (1) it's a safe assumption that any freshwater in FL = gators; (2) gators feed at night; (3) gators hunt in shallow water and are confident to come up all the way to the shoreline - or pretty much any of the other gator-related information that has come up. I knew that they lived in Florida, but honestly had no idea that they were as common as they are. Without any warning about it, it would literally never occur to me that gators could be in a lagoon on Disney property. If it even did occur to me, I'd assume that Disney either figured out a way of removing/killing them all or blocked them from entering in the first place. Because I have no idea about FL wildlife laws or that this lagoon feeds into other water or that alligators climb through pipes. BECAUSE I'M NOT FROM FL OR ANYWHERE GATORS LIVE.

That's the point. People from all over the country and all over the world come to Disney. I would guess that most of these people are not from places where gators live, and therefore many of these people have little to no knowledge about gators. So putting up a sign for these people's benefit, especially considering that many/most visitors to Disney have young children, is the smart and responsible thing to do.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

Because they were at a resort surrounded by miles of natural Florida habitat. They were not in a concrete paved theme park. Duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Because they were at a resort surrounded by miles of natural Florida habitat. They were not in a concrete paved theme park. Duh.

There's no need to be a jerk. Disney literally micromanages every nanosecond of a visitor's experience. It's unthinkable to me that they didn't see fit to warn guests that there are alligators in the water and/or have staff stop patrons from wading. (I'm not the PP you are responding to.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because they were at a resort surrounded by miles of natural Florida habitat. They were not in a concrete paved theme park. Duh.

There's no need to be a jerk. Disney literally micromanages every nanosecond of a visitor's experience. It's unthinkable to me that they didn't see fit to warn guests that there are alligators in the water and/or have staff stop patrons from wading. (I'm not the PP you are responding to.)

Then that is on you, not them.

[Anonymous]

Agree with PP but rather that installing gator warnings they should put permanent barriers preventing anyone from getting into that lagoon as previous posters already suggested - why have this artificial zero depth entrance that no one is supposed to use? Apart from the beaches at Grand Floridian, Polinesian and Contemporary I haven't seen similar easy water access in other harboring places (are there any others?)

Maintaining those open "beach-like" water entries after the gators became in issue was tge real mistake IMHO. You can still potentially fall into the lagoon after climbing the barrier wall - but this is a different matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP but rather that installing gator warnings they should put permanent barriers preventing anyone from getting into that lagoon as previous posters already suggested - why have this artificial zero depth entrance that no one is supposed to use? Apart from the beaches at Grand Floridian, Polinesian and Contemporary I haven't seen similar easy water access in other harboring places (are there any others?)

Maintaining those open "beach-like" water entries after the gators became in issue was tge real mistake IMHO. You can still potentially fall into the lagoon after climbing the barrier wall - but this is a different matter.

+1

I think Disney needs to and will redesign the beaches -- I've seen sandy areas that do not connect directly to water in other places, they can still have a beach atmosphere without allowing children or adults to go down directly to the water. The area will need to be significantly redesigned, if not closed outright. By adding a rocky barrier, that may be sufficient. Disney needs to change the area somehow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, how often do you go to the beach? Are there signs warning you that there is dangerous wildlife in the ocean?

NP. I can't believe there are people who are still trying to press this point. There is a distinction between going to the ocean, where everyone understands that they are willingly entering the natural habitat of marine life and calculate risk accordingly, and going to DISNEY WORLD.

Disney is known to be a controlled environment where nothing is left to chance and everything is meticulously planned and run. Disney LIKES this reputation and has purposely cultivated it over its 40 years of operations. That's a major part of its appeal to tourists. No one is suggesting that people should abandon all common sense because "nothing bad can ever happen to you at Disney" but a reasonable person could certainly assume that, given that there aren't even mosquitoes at Disney because they spray so aggressively, there won't be dangerous, child-eating wildlife running around on Disney property without adequate warning.

Like many PP's have said, not everyone is from FL. Not everyone knows basic gator safety or really anything about gators, because they are a complete non-issue where we live. I'm a completely functioning, cautious, and educated person and had no idea prior to this thread that (1) it's a safe assumption that any freshwater in FL = gators; (2) gators feed at night; (3) gators hunt in shallow water and are confident to come up all the way to the shoreline - or pretty much any of the other gator-related information that has come up. I knew that they lived in Florida, but honestly had no idea that they were as common as they are. Without any warning about it, it would literally never occur to me that gators could be in a lagoon on Disney property. If it even did occur to me, I'd assume that Disney either figured out a way of removing/killing them all or blocked them from entering in the first place. Because I have no idea about FL wildlife laws or that this lagoon feeds into other water or that alligators climb through pipes. BECAUSE I'M NOT FROM FL OR ANYWHERE GATORS LIVE.

That's the point. People from all over the country and all over the world come to Disney. I would guess that most of these people are not from places where gators live, and therefore many of these people have little to no knowledge about gators. So putting up a sign for these people's benefit, especially considering that many/most visitors to Disney have young children, is the smart and responsible thing to do.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

Listen PP, if someone from Texas dies by running off the road in an unexpected ice storm in Vermont is Vermont liable for not having warned him about ice storms? If someone from Florida dies from hypothermia in Aspen because they don't know anything about cold weather is their resort responsible for letting them go out in the cold? If someone at a mountain spa in California gets mauled by a mountain lion is the spa responsible for not warning people there are mountain lions in California? How about someone at a resort in Arizona getting bit by a Rattlesnake? Or Montana by a bear?

I agree people have an assumption that Disney is safe. That's because Disney IS safe. This has never happened before at a resort smack dab in the middle of Florida. It was a freak accident. I just cannot understand you people wanting someone to hang for something that was a freak accident of nature.

Sometimes horrible shit happens and its legitimately not anyone's fault. And I'm not even sure why you people care so much about making this point because

1) Disney is going to pay them anyway
2) They will probably up their alligator control by about 7000% even though their previous alligator control was effective for 30 years
3) There will now (absofreakinglutely) be a shitload of signs all over that park next to bodies of water warning people about alligators and most importantly
4) Everyone in the entire country now knows that there are dangerous alligators in Florida waters

[Anonymous]

Have they found the alligator that attacked the child yet? And is it known how far into the water this little boy actually was?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP but rather that installing gator warnings they should put permanent barriers preventing anyone from getting into that lagoon as previous posters already suggested - why have this artificial zero depth entrance that no one is supposed to use? Apart from the beaches at Grand Floridian, Polinesian and Contemporary I haven't seen similar easy water access in other harboring places (are there any others?)

Maintaining those open "beach-like" water entries after the gators became in issue was tge real mistake IMHO. You can still potentially fall into the lagoon after climbing the barrier wall - but this is a different matter.

+1

I think Disney needs to and will redesign the beaches -- I've seen sandy areas that do not connect directly to water in other places, they can still have a beach atmosphere without allowing children or adults to go down directly to the water. The area will need to be significantly redesigned, if not closed outright. By adding a rocky barrier, that may be sufficient. Disney needs to change the area somehow.

I agree with this point too. Having the beach like water entrance is sort of an invitation, not to swim, but that it's ok to wade and have your feet there and for kids to gather water there. If this was a danger zone, it should have been designed differently and not necessarily called a "beach".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, how often do you go to the beach? Are there signs warning you that there is dangerous wildlife in the ocean?

NP. I can't believe there are people who are still trying to press this point. There is a distinction between going to the ocean, where everyone understands that they are willingly entering the natural habitat of marine life and calculate risk accordingly, and going to DISNEY WORLD.

Disney is known to be a controlled environment where nothing is left to chance and everything is meticulously planned and run. Disney LIKES this reputation and has purposely cultivated it over its 40 years of operations. That's a major part of its appeal to tourists. No one is suggesting that people should abandon all common sense because "nothing bad can ever happen to you at Disney" but a reasonable person could certainly assume that, given that there aren't even mosquitoes at Disney because they spray so aggressively, there won't be dangerous, child-eating wildlife running around on Disney property without adequate warning.

Like many PP's have said, not everyone is from FL. Not everyone knows basic gator safety or really anything about gators, because they are a complete non-issue where we live. I'm a completely functioning, cautious, and educated person and had no idea prior to this thread that (1) it's a safe assumption that any freshwater in FL = gators; (2) gators feed at night; (3) gators hunt in shallow water and are confident to come up all the way to the shoreline - or pretty much any of the other gator-related information that has come up. I knew that they lived in Florida, but honestly had no idea that they were as common as they are. Without any warning about it, it would literally never occur to me that gators could be in a lagoon on Disney property. If it even did occur to me, I'd assume that Disney either figured out a way of removing/killing them all or blocked them from entering in the first place. Because I have no idea about FL wildlife laws or that this lagoon feeds into other water or that alligators climb through pipes. BECAUSE I'M NOT FROM FL OR ANYWHERE GATORS LIVE.

That's the point. People from all over the country and all over the world come to Disney. I would guess that most of these people are not from places where gators live, and therefore many of these people have little to no knowledge about gators. So putting up a sign for these people's benefit, especially considering that many/most visitors to Disney have young children, is the smart and responsible thing to do.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

Listen PP, if someone from Texas dies by running off the road in an unexpected ice storm in Vermont is Vermont liable for not having warned him about ice storms? If someone from Florida dies from hypothermia in Aspen because they don't know anything about cold weather is their resort responsible for letting them go out in the cold? If someone at a mountain spa in California gets mauled by a mountain lion is the spa responsible for not warning people there are mountain lions in California? How about someone at a resort in Arizona getting bit by a Rattlesnake? Or Montana by a bear?

I agree people have an assumption that Disney is safe. That's because Disney IS safe. This has never happened before at a resort smack dab in the middle of Florida. It was a freak accident. I just cannot understand you people wanting someone to hang for something that was a freak accident of nature.

Sometimes horrible shit happens and its legitimately not anyone's fault. And I'm not even sure why you people care so much about making this point because

1) Disney is going to pay them anyway
2) They will probably up their alligator control by about 7000% even though their previous alligator control was effective for 30 years
3) There will now (absofreakinglutely) be a shitload of signs all over that park next to bodies of water warning people about alligators and most importantly
4) Everyone in the entire country now knows that there are dangerous alligators in Florida waters

Agree PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. Disney bears zero responsibility. This was a wild animal in its natural habitat doing what it does. The signs clearly said no swimming and the kid was in the water at dark.

2. The parents bear very little responsibility. The child was not in deep water, presumably they were keeping their eye on him, they just didn't know about the gator. That is a safe assumption given the attacks are so so so incredibly rare as to not be a really reasonable fear.

3. That said, of course Disney writes a check for PR reasons and institutes preventive policies going forward for PR reasons. Might be a good deal on a new pair of boots coming up with all of the gators that are going to be harvested!

This was not its natural habitat. This was a Disney create vignette. A set to create a mood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Disney bears zero responsibility. This was a wild animal in its natural habitat doing what it does. The signs clearly said no swimming and the kid was in the water at dark.

2. The parents bear very little responsibility. The child was not in deep water, presumably they were keeping their eye on him, they just didn't know about the gator. That is a safe assumption given the attacks are so so so incredibly rare as to not be a really reasonable fear.

3. That said, of course Disney writes a check for PR reasons and institutes preventive policies going forward for PR reasons. Might be a good deal on a new pair of boots coming up with all of the gators that are going to be harvested!

This was not its natural habitat. This was a Disney create vignette. A set to create a mood.

Gators show up in swimming pools, ditches, canals, etc. Their natural habitat is water, any water.

The same is true for ducks, turtles, frogs, lizards, snakes, etc. They go everywhere, but are usually harmless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What I object to is the idea that Disney doesn't value safety. As someone who grew up in Florida and has gone there since it opened, I don't find that to be true at all. Just look at their ride warning signs, which are certainly over cautious.

Other than River Country and some swimming at the Fort Wilderness campground on the neighboring Bay Lake decades ago, I don't recall WDW pushing the lakes for swimming. It has been a watersports lake. I've taken Jet Skis out on it (this would have been the 80s) and other boats. This is routine in Florida -- even at the picture some have posted about the neighboring resorts, the "No swimming -- alligators" sign is nestled among the canoes and other watercraft.

The idea that any Florida resort can bottle up nature is ridiculous.

Exactly. Disney even used to have a water park at the Fort Wilderness campground. They didn't close it because of alligators. There are watersports on the lakes. It is a man made beach at Grand Floridian. Kids go out there all the time to watch the fireworks there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP but rather that installing gator warnings they should put permanent barriers preventing anyone from getting into that lagoon as previous posters already suggested - why have this artificial zero depth entrance that no one is supposed to use? Apart from the beaches at Grand Floridian, Polinesian and Contemporary I haven't seen similar easy water access in other harboring places (are there any others?)

Maintaining those open "beach-like" water entries after the gators became in issue was tge real mistake IMHO. You can still potentially fall into the lagoon after climbing the barrier wall - but this is a different matter.

Beach Club Villas and Boardwalk Village also have these Disney created white sand beaches. Not sure about the Swan.