Donnie Dumptruck says Mar-A-Lago's been searched by the FBI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh god. Stop the gaslighting. Please.

A former president was mishandling top secret/sci documents and storing them (illegally) in his private club where lots of people, including potentially interested foreign parties, continually walk through.

From the warrant we know this is what was being searched for and from the receipts, we know this was what was found.

This alone that we know is just terrible behavior and worthy of a search warrant.

But if the (unconfirmed) reporting that the docs are about nuclear matters, does it not send a chill down your spine? Who are you people that aren’t alarmed by this and look for conspiracy theories to blame the DoJ instead?

I don’t even know if there was any intent behind the man child who used to be president. He reminds me of that Fitzgerald quote: “They were careless people, Tom and Daisy- they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”

Of course there was. He is a malignancy.

[Anonymous]

Latest Trump defense (as of Fri, 8/12, 9:45pm)

"He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified. The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated by the President, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

[Anonymous]

Remember that he constantly re-uses the same ideas.

Apparently his MAIN obsession is to stay in power. So he probably meant to use some of this information as leverage to buy the support of influential people, domestic and foreign. It's the "do me a favor" all over again, because that's how he's always operated.

Why did the Saudis pay Kushner $2B6 months after the family left the White House? This was an MBS decision, over-riding his counselors' investment advice. Was MBS going to receive something from Trump that would cement his own hold over the kingdom?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So Garland and the FBI didn't foresee the likelihood that Trump would claim they planted evidence and come out of this appealing to even more voters?
I sure hope they had a good and credible reasons for the raid. Waiting with bated breath to hear what it was

Please tell me you're a nitwit without using the word nitwit...

hey, I said I'm waiting with bated breath to hear the credible reasons for the raid. If it's there, I'll be 100% on the FBI's side. Surprising to me though that Trump is the one advocating most loudly for release of the warrant.

Garland prefers not to say, but probably what happened is that there was a recent realization, perhaps due to a tip-off, that ultra-sensitive nuclear docs were held at Mar-a-lago. That set off an urgent process to recover them before any more harm could be done - harm, meaning our most secret nuclear tech info (US or foreign) used by enemies or potential enemies of the state. You understand that the first entity Trump shares or sells it to can then turn around and sell it to someone else. Once it's out, it's out. Even though Trump had this since he left the WH, the DOJ cannot say "oh it's been so long, what's another few months!". No, as soon as they know, it's the topmost national security priority to recover the docs. They have no choice.

You've got to accept that the LAST thing DOJ wants to do is piss off the MAGA set and set off a political firestorm before the mid terms. DOJ HAD NO CHOICE WHEN THEY REALIZED THE DANGER.

This isn't a little game of owning the right, or owning the left. It's gone beyond the political domestic sphere. We are now at DEFCON 1 in terms of global threat, if all this is indeed true and very sensitive nuclear information has fallen into the wrong hands.

I want to point out here that the public may perhaps never have the full picture, given the sensitive nature of the information. Perhaps a foreign country already has the info, but the American public will never know. Our current and future presidents will have to deal with the fallout of the cursed Trump presidency and post-presidency. Trump himself, if this is really what happened, must be neutralized at all costs. He is a clear and present danger to the USA, our allies (whose nuclear info may have been stolen), and indeed the whole world order.

Again, the public is not the best judge of all of this for now. It's difficult to trust our institutions given the political climate, but I am convinced they are working to defend us.

If it was an urgent process, why wait three days from signature to execute?

It’s called the weekend.

Search warrants can be executed on weekends. More likely there were strategic reasons to wait a few days, such as needing to fully briefs the agents who would be executing the raid on what they are looking for, putting together a plan for where they were to search to make sure no areas were overlooked, the number of other people who would be on the premises at the time (if DOJ was trying to keep this low profile and there are far fewer guests/club members at Mar-a-Lago on a Monday than a Saturday, that could make Monday preferable to execute).

The warrant covers all documents for all four years. I don't think that's specific enough to require two weeks.

What are you talking about?

My suggestion is to get caught up

I am caught up. Are you talking about the judge giving two weeks for the warrant to be executed? That's not unusual at all so I don't know what you think is suspicious there.

In matters of extreme national security, which is what's being used to justify the raid, it would be highly unusual to wait.

But they didn't wait two weeks so your comment still doesn't make sense.

Three days is a long time when the security of the nation is in grave danger.

Well, Trump was in New Jersey all weekend.

[Anonymous]

From the NYT, in response to Trump claiming docs were declassified:

"Mr. Trump has offered no details, but if he is saying he made a blanket, oral invocation that all the files he took to Mar-a-Lago were unclassified, without making any formal, written record, that would be difficult to prove or disprove. Even if there is no evidence that Mr. Trump followed normal procedures for declassifying certain types of information, his lawyers could argue that he was not constitutionally bound to obey such rules.

But in any case, such a claim would not settle the matter. For one thing, two of the laws that a search warrant executed at Mar-a-Lago this week referred to — Sections 1519 and 2071 of Title 18 of the United States Code — make the taking or concealment of government records a crime regardless of whether they had anything to do with national security.

For another, laws against taking or hoarding material with restricted national-security information, which generally carry heavier penalties than theft of ordinary documents, do not always line up with whether the files are technically classified.

That is because some criminal laws enacted by Congress to protect certain national-security information operate separately from the executive branch’s system of classifying documents — created by presidents using executive orders — as “confidential,” “secret” or “top secret.”

In particular, a third law the warrant references was Section 793, which carries a penalty of up to 10 years in prison per offense. Better known as the Espionage Act, it was enacted by Congress during World War I, decades before President Harry S. Truman issued an executive order creating the modern classification system for the executive branch.

As a result, the Espionage Act makes no reference to whether a document has been deemed classified. Instead, it makes it a crime to retain, without authorization, documents related to the national defense that could be used to harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latest Trump defense (as of Fri, 8/12, 9:45pm)

"He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified. The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated by the President, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

People, tell me none of you are falling for this. Is this how you would want Biden to run the White House?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latest Trump defense (as of Fri, 8/12, 9:45pm)

"He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified. The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated by the President, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

LOL, Trump is so stupid. Garland is playing chess and Trump still thinks it's tic-tac-toe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latest Trump defense (as of Fri, 8/12, 9:45pm)

"He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified. The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated by the President, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

Do these people just keep making up $hit as they go along?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latest Trump defense (as of Fri, 8/12, 9:45pm)

"He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified. The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated by the President, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

Do these people just keep making up $hit as they go along?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latest Trump defense (as of Fri, 8/12, 9:45pm)

"He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified. The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated by the President, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

This makes no sense. If they were documents important enough they needed to be at MAL to allow him to work then why would he declassify them?

he is just making things up as he goes along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latest Trump defense (as of Fri, 8/12, 9:45pm)

"He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified. The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated by the President, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

People, tell me none of you are falling for this. Is this how you would want Biden to run the White House?

This is not how I want ANYONE to run the White House. And no one has in modern memory. This is utterly ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latest Trump defense (as of Fri, 8/12, 9:45pm)

"He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified. The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated by the President, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

This makes no sense. If they were documents important enough they needed to be at MAL to allow him to work then why would he declassify them?

he is just making things up as he goes along.

It's also stupid because none of the statutes cited in the warrant documents require that the documents at issue be classified. There are similar criminal statutes governing classified documents that are not included in the warrant, which strongly suggests Garland planned i this way to avoid a fight with Trump's team about whether the seized documents were classified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to know if the hand written letter the seized was his love letter from Rocket Man.

The Post reported in February that that was among the documents.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Two points just made on CNN that are worth noting.

1. When the FBI reviews these documents and materials, they will not just be reviewing the substance of the documents. They will likely be fingerprinting the documents to determine who may have viewed them.

2. The existence of the documents alone would not be enough to support a finding of probable cause under the Espionage Act, so this warrant probably signals that DOJ has other evidence (probably from a witness or a written communication they obtained) of intent to share this information in a way that is contrary to national security interests. The warrant itself is only the tip of the iceberg here.

The second paragraph doesn’t make sense. Probable cause can be established by a showing that materials subject to the Espionage Act were in the possession and control of a person but are now unaccounted for and not otherwise under positive control by NARA and/or those materials are known to be located at a specified unsecured location without legal authority. The FBI obtains warrants on this basis all the time when government employees or contractors are involved in mishandling classified or confidential material.

It’s also quite possible that there was a sudden sense of urgency triggered by information obtained through intelligence, surveillance or a witness/source.

Warrants, yes, but I doubt a random employee will be CHARGED with espionage if they mistakenly bring something home they shouldn't have, absent all other proof.
Now in this case, Trump knowingly brought these documents home. But doesn't a charge of espionage need evidence of disseminating it to others? Or intent of same?

Nobody said anything about mistakenly — which is near impodddible to do. That’s blatantly moving the goalposts. Go read 18 USC sec. 793. It is not hard to parse.

Right. My question is: Will Trump be charged with espionage even if law enforcement cannot find any proof he intended to share them? Is sole possession of these docs sufficient since he should have known it was illegal to do so?

Also, if fingerprints of his employees are found on them, will they be charged too?

I bet this brings down the whole Trump family, his legal team, everyone.

note who in the GOP is defending this and who is finally turning into an actual patriot

Who?

I haven't heard any Republicans denouncing him publicly on TV or in the papers.

There were a few GOP house members who made statements that essentially said “if true, this is a big deal.” When was Chris Stewart who’s an Air Force veteran on the Intel committee. Another was Michael McCaul who is a former federal prosecutor. Also Brian Fitzpatrick who’s a former FBI agent.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I can't keep up. They removed all these boxes- has anyone confirmed the boxes actually contain the nuclear documents?

Only the FBI and DOJ are in a position to conclusively verify this and they’re not in the business of trying cases in the court of public opinion or discussing ongoing investigations:

So the answer is 'um, yeah, yeah they do but we can't tell you!'

Do you have an issue with a presumption of innocence and Miranda rights?

Everyone here fully supports a criminal trial for Trump.

Not the trash can patriots who seem to think Trump is entitled to special treatment and that they, being uniquely special, are entitled to explanations from DOJ akin to participation trophies.

He has already received special treatment. Anyone else on the planet would have been detained 17 months ago.

“Detained” is a fun way of saying “would be at the bottom of a dark hole awaiting a trial that’s moving at a glacial pace.”

A trial for a regular Joe who did this would be very fast.