Massive home addition causes confusion in Fairfax County neighborhood

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Greenbriar is a mess. Has anyone actually driven through it?! Shudders. One of DS's team mates lived there.

There is nothing wrong with the neighborhood. It isn’t shiny and new, but it isn’t “a mess”

I wouldn't call it a mess, but it looks like a middle middle class neighborhood filled with 1950s-1960s split levels, some of which are quite poorly maintained. People are melting down about architectural cohesion when the neighborhood architecture isn't even nice.

It was built in the late 60s-early 70s

What is wrong with a middle class neighborhood?

Are there some properties that aren’t well maintained? Sure. No HOA, remember?

Absolutely nothing wrong with it. I’d live there. But it’s extra weird to be shaken up about aesthetics when there aren’t many aesthetics to begin with. It’s not as though this is some luxe enclave with custom homes being totally ruined by an ugly addition (though I wouldn’t consider that a persuasive argument either).

Do you think only people who live in a “luxe enclave” deserve to not have out-of-character structures built in their neighborhood? Middle class people don’t deserve to live in a less crowded neighborhood if that’s their choice?

My point is that the neighborhood has no charm or “character” to begin with, so there’s nothing really to preserve. To clear, I don’t think the argument is a valid one either way. People who don’t live in an HOA aren’t owed some coherent aesthetic. And people definitely aren’t entitled to “uncrowded” neighborhoods.

I don’t think you understand what the zoning board means by referring to the character of a community. They’re not talking about charm. It refers to a sense of continuity and cohesiveness and whether a proposed project fits into a neighborhood in the same way other structures do. It has to do with a proposed structure not being of a totally different character than what is already there.

And, yes, the requirements for two off street parking spaces do go to how “crowded” a neighborhood can be. Suburban neighborhood streets are not super wide, and can be narrow. More cars parked on the streets can make it more difficult for two cars to pass each other safely. They can also make it less safe for children crossing streets, riding bikes, or even just playing in the street.

Zoning is about land use, not about aesthetics. Even accepting what you're saying as true, Fairfax County zoning laws consider three-story rectangular additions used for residential purposes sufficiently cohesive. This property satisfies parking minimums, so no right to challenge. There aren't resident minimums for a family related by blood/marriage, so the parking minimums aren't about "crowds."

Zoning used to be solely about land use. That's no longer the case. You are living in the past.

Do you dispute that three-floor, rectangular box addition six inches narrower than this person's would comply with all FFX county zoning ordinances despite not having the same "character" as the rest of the neighborhood?

Apparently, it's impossible to build that rectangular box without violating the setbacks. That's why we are here.

Do you have a cite for that? You're saying identical structure 6 inches narrower cannot be structurally sound and comply with relevant ordinances/codes?

There's no evidence of your proposed structure. Draw up some plans, and I will take a look.

So you have no basis for asserting that the addition can't be built without violating the setbacks? Other than that others on this thread have apparently said that?

Speculation by others does not constitue a set of drawings that don't violate a setback.

And the converse is also true. There is no reason to believe the same design couldn’t be six inches narrower.

So, show us some drawings.

DP. I really don't know what point either one of you is arguing. Obviously the addition as planned couldn't fit behind the setback- there simply isn't enough room on the lot. But also obviously, it could have been 6-12 inches narrower. I don't know what the interior layout looks like. Conceivably they might have needed to rearrange things, but I doubt it would have taken much.

The person you're responding to believes that, absent drawings from an architect and engineer, it wouldn't be possible to build this addition 6-12 inches narrower.

I don't believe anything. It needs to be proven that this design is compatible with the space. So far, we have a set of drawings that show it can't be done. Random speculation that it could fit based on "It's just 6 inches!" is just that; speculation.

Weird trolling.

The pot calling the kettle black. You can speculate all you want about the structure. Until it's a design on paper that can be reviewed, it's pointless speculation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one has posted explicitly anti-Asian content, but as an Asian myself, I can detect some dog-whistling in certain posts. Having lived in Caucasian-majority countries all my life, it's water off a duck's back for me at this point, and I don't really care... but just because I'm not offended doesn't mean it isn't there! There is an underlying subtext of "look at these lowly immigrants with no sense of decorum ruining the neighborhood" going on, and it's useless to deny it.

And you know what? They have no sense of decorum!!! I take offense at that, on their poor neighbor's behalf. Also I'm not happy that someone who looks Asian is bolstering anti-Asian sentiment and helping racists think their immigration notions are rooted in reality. What did Stephen Miller say? Even immigrants' kids are tainted? Racists only need one example to vilify and mistreat an entire ethnic group...

I disagree. In my rural county, we had a local named "Randy" who kept adding mobile homes to his property for each of this kids. He eventually accumulated five trailers on a 1.5 acre lot. The county board and his neighbors were pissed, but you couldn't do anything since zoning allowed essentially a DIY trailer park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has posted explicitly anti-Asian content, but as an Asian myself, I can detect some dog-whistling in certain posts. Having lived in Caucasian-majority countries all my life, it's water off a duck's back for me at this point, and I don't really care... but just because I'm not offended doesn't mean it isn't there! There is an underlying subtext of "look at these lowly immigrants with no sense of decorum ruining the neighborhood" going on, and it's useless to deny it.

And you know what? They have no sense of decorum!!! I take offense at that, on their poor neighbor's behalf. Also I'm not happy that someone who looks Asian is bolstering anti-Asian sentiment and helping racists think their immigration notions are rooted in reality. What did Stephen Miller say? Even immigrants' kids are tainted? Racists only need one example to vilify and mistreat an entire ethnic group...

I disagree. In my rural county, we had a local named "Randy" who kept adding mobile homes to his property for each of this kids. He eventually accumulated five trailers on a 1.5 acre lot. The county board and his neighbors were pissed, but you couldn't do anything since zoning allowed essentially a DIY trailer park.

I would watch Randy's reality show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friend lived in an Ashley and did a major Reno that basically turned it into a colonial with 5 brs.

Did they have to do major foundation work to create the full second level?

[Anonymous]

The thing people are missing is this is clearly elder abuse. The older parents own the home. Not that son in the news. He is not a neighbor, homeowner or anything. He is just a mooch who is somehow tore apart that home into a ugly mess and left his parents with a ton of legal issues, unwanted publicity, angry neighbors and for now a unsellable house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing people are missing is this is clearly elder abuse. The older parents own the home. Not that son in the news. He is not a neighbor, homeowner or anything. He is just a mooch who is somehow tore apart that home into a ugly mess and left his parents with a ton of legal issues, unwanted publicity, angry neighbors and for now a unsellable house.

The ownership has switched back and forth between son and parents several times. Unclear why, but I certainly wouldn’t say this situation is indicative of elder abuse.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you do a search on Ashley Greenbriar Fairfax you can see many great houses with additions and modifications. Those homes are quite different in expansion potential than typical Arlington teardowns.

One neighborhood in ARL has a large number of teardowns and renos with additions. Teardowns were 2-3 bd and 1 -2 baths. 1200 sq feet or less. No garage. Renos changed rooflines, kept garages. Large new builds on teardown sites either did attached narrow lot line with 1 car garage or a free standing.

I don't see a lot of Ashley models with significant modifications. The most significant one is 4214 Plaza Ln. I think that's pretty well done, but those bedrooms are awfully small. The dormers help, but reallocating space to upstairs from one bedroom to create a hallway makes both original rooms quite small.

I mean, how big does a bedroom need to be? Most people just sleep in their bedrooms but spend most of their day in the rest of the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing people are missing is this is clearly elder abuse. The older parents own the home. Not that son in the news. He is not a neighbor, homeowner or anything. He is just a mooch who is somehow tore apart that home into a ugly mess and left his parents with a ton of legal issues, unwanted publicity, angry neighbors and for now a unsellable house.

The ownership has switched back and forth between son and parents several times. Unclear why, but I certainly wouldn’t say this situation is indicative of elder abuse.

So would you go to your MIL or FIL and ask for house to be put in your name for free?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing people are missing is this is clearly elder abuse. The older parents own the home. Not that son in the news. He is not a neighbor, homeowner or anything. He is just a mooch who is somehow tore apart that home into a ugly mess and left his parents with a ton of legal issues, unwanted publicity, angry neighbors and for now a unsellable house.

The ownership has switched back and forth between son and parents several times. Unclear why, but I certainly wouldn’t say this situation is indicative of elder abuse.

So would you go to your MIL or FIL and ask for house to be put in your name for free?

Have you heard of inheritance? In any case, maybe they wanted to switch off who had tax liability.

Anything about elder abuse is pure speculation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you do a search on Ashley Greenbriar Fairfax you can see many great houses with additions and modifications. Those homes are quite different in expansion potential than typical Arlington teardowns.

One neighborhood in ARL has a large number of teardowns and renos with additions. Teardowns were 2-3 bd and 1 -2 baths. 1200 sq feet or less. No garage. Renos changed rooflines, kept garages. Large new builds on teardown sites either did attached narrow lot line with 1 car garage or a free standing.

I don't see a lot of Ashley models with significant modifications. The most significant one is 4214 Plaza Ln. I think that's pretty well done, but those bedrooms are awfully small. The dormers help, but reallocating space to upstairs from one bedroom to create a hallway makes both original rooms quite small.

I mean, how big does a bedroom need to be? Most people just sleep in their bedrooms but spend most of their day in the rest of the house.

Think about the situation here. There won't be as many living spaces relative to residents as a typical house. The bigger the household, the more people will use their bedrooms- especially among teens and adults. You're generally going to want room for a bed (full or queen for the adults), nightstand, desk, 1-2 dressers, TV, and probably a chair of some sort. At least two of these rooms need to be suitable for a pair of adults.

The bedrooms in 4214 Plaza Ln don't end up very functional for anyone but kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing people are missing is this is clearly elder abuse. The older parents own the home. Not that son in the news. He is not a neighbor, homeowner or anything. He is just a mooch who is somehow tore apart that home into a ugly mess and left his parents with a ton of legal issues, unwanted publicity, angry neighbors and for now a unsellable house.

The ownership has switched back and forth between son and parents several times. Unclear why, but I certainly wouldn’t say this situation is indicative of elder abuse.

So would you go to your MIL or FIL and ask for house to be put in your name for free?

Have you heard of inheritance? In any case, maybe they wanted to switch off who had tax liability.

Anything about elder abuse is pure speculation.

That's a bad look for immigrants when everyone is watching them about coming here and milking the system, getting benefits, etc. Optics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing people are missing is this is clearly elder abuse. The older parents own the home. Not that son in the news. He is not a neighbor, homeowner or anything. He is just a mooch who is somehow tore apart that home into a ugly mess and left his parents with a ton of legal issues, unwanted publicity, angry neighbors and for now a unsellable house.

The ownership has switched back and forth between son and parents several times. Unclear why, but I certainly wouldn’t say this situation is indicative of elder abuse.

My guess would be that it was related to refinancing the mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing people are missing is this is clearly elder abuse. The older parents own the home. Not that son in the news. He is not a neighbor, homeowner or anything. He is just a mooch who is somehow tore apart that home into a ugly mess and left his parents with a ton of legal issues, unwanted publicity, angry neighbors and for now a unsellable house.

The ownership has switched back and forth between son and parents several times. Unclear why, but I certainly wouldn’t say this situation is indicative of elder abuse.

So would you go to your MIL or FIL and ask for house to be put in your name for free?

Have you heard of inheritance? In any case, maybe they wanted to switch off who had tax liability.

Anything about elder abuse is pure speculation.

That's a bad look for immigrants when everyone is watching them about coming here and milking the system, getting benefits, etc. Optics.

There it is!

[Anonymous]

Where are the 3 families going to park their cars?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing people are missing is this is clearly elder abuse. The older parents own the home. Not that son in the news. He is not a neighbor, homeowner or anything. He is just a mooch who is somehow tore apart that home into a ugly mess and left his parents with a ton of legal issues, unwanted publicity, angry neighbors and for now a unsellable house.

The ownership has switched back and forth between son and parents several times. Unclear why, but I certainly wouldn’t say this situation is indicative of elder abuse.

So would you go to your MIL or FIL and ask for house to be put in your name for free?

Have you heard of inheritance? In any case, maybe they wanted to switch off who had tax liability.

Anything about elder abuse is pure speculation.

That's a bad look for immigrants when everyone is watching them about coming here and milking the system, getting benefits, etc. Optics.

It’s not “milking benefits” if it’s a legitimate transfer. This is run of the mill rich white people tax minimization behavior.