AAP - why not have it for all of FCPS?

[Anonymous]

AAP more aptly should be called Advanced Academic Parents. Academically oriented parents would give their children many enrichment activities outside of classroom from a very early age. Thus the kids end up with earlier reading and earlier math skills than their peers. General Ed would mean they are covering material that they have already covered.

Dont know the right solution. Maybe grade skipping is more popular and an easier option, there might be less incentive to go AAP route for these parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP more aptly should be called Advanced Academic Parents. Academically oriented parents would give their children many enrichment activities outside of classroom from a very early age. Thus the kids end up with earlier reading and earlier math skills than their peers. General Ed would mean they are covering material that they have already covered.

Dont know the right solution. Maybe grade skipping is more popular and an easier option, there might be less incentive to go AAP route for these parents.

Really? So are parents supposed to stop reading or playing games with their kids to make sure their kids aren't too far ahead?

The best solution would be to structure a LLIV program the way some schools already are doing. AAP kids + gen ed kids who are advanced in math take advanced math together. AAP kids + gen ed kids who are advanced at language arts take advanced language arts together. For science, social studies, homeroom, and all specials the classrooms would be mixed ability with a cluster of advanced kids receiving extensions. That way, there isn't such a stark AAP vs. not AAP divide, and talented gen ed kids can be flexibly grouped in with the AAP kids for subjects of strength.

[Anonymous]

Parents will do what is best for their child. Instead of complaining about parents who are involved in their kids education even before kindergarten, why don’t those parents spend 30 mins every day providing enrichment and involve in their kids education. It’s the personal choice and if you choose not to focus on your kids education then don’t blame the parents who sacrifice a lot for their kids education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our school, they use some of it for everyone but generally the AAP material ends up being used for the top groups in the gen ed class. For instance, the highest LA groups in each 4th grade class are doing Caesar’s English, in 6th grade GE only some of the groups are doing Jacob’s Ladder at all or doing one every week as opposed to taking a lot longer, GE kids can test into advanced math, etc. I think it strikes a good balance between AAP For Everyone and just assuming that the gen ed kids can’t handle it.

Seems to be a step forward - agree with you that kids should not be underestimated. Is AAP so exceptional? Don’t truly exceptional kids on either side of the spectrum still need differentiated teaching?

In terms of limited resources: how much time and resources are needed for AAP assessments each year? would that not be better allocated to teaching kids well and with better teacher:student class ratios?

Thanks. OP

any FCPS teachers' perspectives on this?

Their solution to this at the middle school level was to make honors open enrollment. It has been handled differently by each school (some allow anyone to move classes at any point in the year, some let you sign up for anything but then you're stuck there, some try to encourage more honors, some try to discourage it), so it's hard to make blanket statements. In my experience though, all kids want to say they are in honors, and all parents want their kid in honors to be around the kids they perceive to be more motivated/dedicated. That means I have kids who failed their 6th grade math SOL sitting in math 7 honors. Kids who failed their math 7 SOL sitting in algebra. They struggle all year because I cannot teach 2-3 years of math to them in a group setting in one year, and many of them end up repeating algebra in high school because they lack foundational understanding of the math concepts.

My peers who have been teaching longer than I have will tell you that AAP is what honors used to be and honors has been slowed to what gen ed used to be due to the open enrollment and pressure to not allow anyone to fail.

What is the best AAP ES-MS-HS pyramid in FCPS from a teacher’s opinion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our school, they use some of it for everyone but generally the AAP material ends up being used for the top groups in the gen ed class. For instance, the highest LA groups in each 4th grade class are doing Caesar’s English, in 6th grade GE only some of the groups are doing Jacob’s Ladder at all or doing one every week as opposed to taking a lot longer, GE kids can test into advanced math, etc. I think it strikes a good balance between AAP For Everyone and just assuming that the gen ed kids can’t handle it.

Seems to be a step forward - agree with you that kids should not be underestimated. Is AAP so exceptional? Don’t truly exceptional kids on either side of the spectrum still need differentiated teaching?

In terms of limited resources: how much time and resources are needed for AAP assessments each year? would that not be better allocated to teaching kids well and with better teacher:student class ratios?

Thanks. OP

any FCPS teachers' perspectives on this?

Their solution to this at the middle school level was to make honors open enrollment. It has been handled differently by each school (some allow anyone to move classes at any point in the year, some let you sign up for anything but then you're stuck there, some try to encourage more honors, some try to discourage it), so it's hard to make blanket statements. In my experience though, all kids want to say they are in honors, and all parents want their kid in honors to be around the kids they perceive to be more motivated/dedicated. That means I have kids who failed their 6th grade math SOL sitting in math 7 honors. Kids who failed their math 7 SOL sitting in algebra. They struggle all year because I cannot teach 2-3 years of math to them in a group setting in one year, and many of them end up repeating algebra in high school because they lack foundational understanding of the math concepts.

My peers who have been teaching longer than I have will tell you that AAP is what honors used to be and honors has been slowed to what gen ed used to be due to the open enrollment and pressure to not allow anyone to fail.

What is the best AAP ES-MS-HS pyramid in FCPS?

LIII and Advanced Math in grade 3 for a good math program in ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents will do what is best for their child. Instead of complaining about parents who are involved in their kids education even before kindergarten, why don’t those parents spend 30 mins every day providing enrichment and involve in their kids education. It’s the personal choice and if you choose not to focus on your kids education then don’t blame the parents who sacrifice a lot for their kids education.

This is absolutely what needs to happen but it can't because there are parents who aren't able to. This delays learning from an early age and snowballs from there throughout lower elementary then FCPS is playing catch up. Instead of addressing that head-on, they're re-arranging AAP to lower standards instead of fixing the actual problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will do what is best for their child. Instead of complaining about parents who are involved in their kids education even before kindergarten, why don’t those parents spend 30 mins every day providing enrichment and involve in their kids education. It’s the personal choice and if you choose not to focus on your kids education then don’t blame the parents who sacrifice a lot for their kids education.

This is absolutely what needs to happen but it can't because there are parents who aren't able to. This delays learning from an early age and snowballs from there throughout lower elementary then FCPS is playing catch up. Instead of addressing that head-on, they're re-arranging AAP to lower standards instead of fixing the actual problem.

More LLIV will make schools with more parent focus become better than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents will do what is best for their child. Instead of complaining about parents who are involved in their kids education even before kindergarten, why don’t those parents spend 30 mins every day providing enrichment and involve in their kids education. It’s the personal choice and if you choose not to focus on your kids education then don’t blame the parents who sacrifice a lot for their kids education.

There is doing what is best for your child vs. gaming the system (test prep, outside testing, being friends with AART). There is no problem supplementing, encouraging reading, etc.

[Anonymous]

School Choice solves all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP more aptly should be called Advanced Academic Parents. Academically oriented parents would give their children many enrichment activities outside of classroom from a very early age. Thus the kids end up with earlier reading and earlier math skills than their peers. General Ed would mean they are covering material that they have already covered.

Dont know the right solution. Maybe grade skipping is more popular and an easier option, there might be less incentive to go AAP route for these parents.

I'd more or less agree but phrase it differently: some parents will pace their children's education at a rate they consider comfortable, which may be at odds with gen ed's (unreasonably slow) pacing. As a result, these kids will feel held back by their schools, which creates an unhealthy academic atmosphere. Keep in mind that the "advanced" pacing we talk about here is ordinary pacing in some other countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP more aptly should be called Advanced Academic Parents. Academically oriented parents would give their children many enrichment activities outside of classroom from a very early age. Thus the kids end up with earlier reading and earlier math skills than their peers. General Ed would mean they are covering material that they have already covered.

Dont know the right solution. Maybe grade skipping is more popular and an easier option, there might be less incentive to go AAP route for these parents.

I'd more or less agree but phrase it differently: some parents will pace their children's education at a rate they consider comfortable, which may be at odds with gen ed's (unreasonably slow) pacing. As a result, these kids will feel held back by their schools, which creates an unhealthy academic atmosphere. Keep in mind that the "advanced" pacing we talk about here is ordinary pacing in some other countries.

good pacing is better than grade skipping for kids who want to join outside activities and sports with classmates in the same age group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:School Choice solves all of this.

How so? You look at places that have school choice and it doesn’t seem to be the case at all. Who do you think would get into the top schools? The same parents scrambling to get their kids in AAP. But if you can point out where this has worked...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP more aptly should be called Advanced Academic Parents. Academically oriented parents would give their children many enrichment activities outside of classroom from a very early age. Thus the kids end up with earlier reading and earlier math skills than their peers. General Ed would mean they are covering material that they have already covered.

Dont know the right solution. Maybe grade skipping is more popular and an easier option, there might be less incentive to go AAP route for these parents.

Really? So are parents supposed to stop reading or playing games with their kids to make sure their kids aren't too far ahead?

The best solution would be to structure a LLIV program the way some schools already are doing. AAP kids + gen ed kids who are advanced in math take advanced math together. AAP kids + gen ed kids who are advanced at language arts take advanced language arts together. For science, social studies, homeroom, and all specials the classrooms would be mixed ability with a cluster of advanced kids receiving extensions. That way, there isn't such a stark AAP vs. not AAP divide, and talented gen ed kids can be flexibly grouped in with the AAP kids for subjects of strength.

“Extensions” won’t happen. Come on now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP more aptly should be called Advanced Academic Parents. Academically oriented parents would give their children many enrichment activities outside of classroom from a very early age. Thus the kids end up with earlier reading and earlier math skills than their peers. General Ed would mean they are covering material that they have already covered.

Dont know the right solution. Maybe grade skipping is more popular and an easier option, there might be less incentive to go AAP route for these parents.

Really? So are parents supposed to stop reading or playing games with their kids to make sure their kids aren't too far ahead?

The best solution would be to structure a LLIV program the way some schools already are doing. AAP kids + gen ed kids who are advanced in math take advanced math together. AAP kids + gen ed kids who are advanced at language arts take advanced language arts together. For science, social studies, homeroom, and all specials the classrooms would be mixed ability with a cluster of advanced kids receiving extensions. That way, there isn't such a stark AAP vs. not AAP divide, and talented gen ed kids can be flexibly grouped in with the AAP kids for subjects of strength.

“Extensions” won’t happen. Come on now.

+1 and don’t forget about all the special Ed kids who will slow the class down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP more aptly should be called Advanced Academic Parents. Academically oriented parents would give their children many enrichment activities outside of classroom from a very early age. Thus the kids end up with earlier reading and earlier math skills than their peers. General Ed would mean they are covering material that they have already covered.

Dont know the right solution. Maybe grade skipping is more popular and an easier option, there might be less incentive to go AAP route for these parents.

Really? So are parents supposed to stop reading or playing games with their kids to make sure their kids aren't too far ahead?

The best solution would be to structure a LLIV program the way some schools already are doing. AAP kids + gen ed kids who are advanced in math take advanced math together. AAP kids + gen ed kids who are advanced at language arts take advanced language arts together. For science, social studies, homeroom, and all specials the classrooms would be mixed ability with a cluster of advanced kids receiving extensions. That way, there isn't such a stark AAP vs. not AAP divide, and talented gen ed kids can be flexibly grouped in with the AAP kids for subjects of strength.

“Extensions” won’t happen. Come on now.

+1 and don’t forget about all the special Ed kids who will slow the class down.

I was one of the special ed kids who slowed the class down. I earned my Doctorate at 30 partially because I was in a mainstream classroom and expected to meet those standards. There is a fine line you walk between writing kids off and putting them in remedial classes and excepting that things might move at a slower pace for some kids. I took Algebra in 9th, Algebra 2 in 10th and Geometry in 11th. I did not take math in 12th. I taught myself Calculus and Matrix Algebra in Grad school, enough to go on and teach Statistics and Game Theory.

There are other kids like me out there and there are kids who were not given that oppertunity who could have been like me.

My son is very bright and does not have my learning issues. I want AAP and similar programs for kids like him because he legit needs that challenge to stay interested in school. But I am not going to write off the kids who are struggling because many of them can do better then what many people think. I don’t think that kids who are disruptive, throwing things and fighting in class and taking all the Teachers attention should be in a mainstream classroom but I don’t think that you exclude kids who are struggling and have been identified as Special Ed because they hold the class back. We should be able to devise a system that meets many kids needs and not throw away the kids who are struggling in order to promote the kids who are bored.