Who leaked the MCPS attendance documents to the Washington Post?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else bothered by Jennifer Webster's quote by the post that attendance doesn't matter as long as the grade is good? Her example was if a child can go to class 40% of the time and earn a B.

As a parent, I wonder the value of the classroom instruction if a child can be absent 60% of the time and earn a B. Is the material challenging enough or is the problem children are skating through without merrit? Or both problems?

It's scary that Central Office staff doesn’t view the attendance numbers as a problem or something that needs addressing.

This. school needs to be challenging enough that you will be impacted if you miss too many days. Also, my kids go to a title 1 school and none of the students are working at the family restaurant. It is usually the father with the job at night but in these cases, the mother is at home. There isnt the pressure to go to school, esp. since the end goal is to just graduate. and if you can do that and skip school all the time, then why show up?
You should not be able to graduate if you don't meet attendance goals. showing up is a life skill and if you can't be bothered to do that, you fail. As a child of immigrant parents we would travel home during the summer. even though it was more expensive because my parents did not want us to miss.school. They worked crazy hours but took our education seriously. That seems to be lacking with many of today's families, rich, poor, immigrant, non immigrant.

I agree with the principle.

In reality, the schools are judged by stats like graduation rate. So I don't blame them for being not strict on this. And the important thing is, it does not matter. Nowadays people do not treat HS diploma as something useful. To be competent you really need to go to colleges or higher. So why don't we just consider that as some kind of "social welfare".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.

I think both a reasonable amount of family vacation and a cousin's funeral should be excused. If the student can make up the work and learn the material, a trip to a foreign country is absolutely an educational experience. Families should try to schedule so as not to impact school. But if there is a wedding, funeral, or other celebration abroad that requires missing some school, I think those are legitimate reasons to be absent. I went to school back when the policy was 5 unexcused absences and you fail, and my mom jumped through a lot of hoops to get a senior trip with my grandparents excused. And you know what? It really was educational and more worthwhile than another week of high school.

Except if you allow family vacations, there will still be disrupted learning communities. Do we want to pretend that Karla missing 5 days the week before PARCC is no more detrimental than Larla missing just Monday after Thanksgiving?

Let’s just convert all secondary schools to self-paced, online learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.

I think both a reasonable amount of family vacation and a cousin's funeral should be excused. If the student can make up the work and learn the material, a trip to a foreign country is absolutely an educational experience. Families should try to schedule so as not to impact school. But if there is a wedding, funeral, or other celebration abroad that requires missing some school, I think those are legitimate reasons to be absent. I went to school back when the policy was 5 unexcused absences and you fail, and my mom jumped through a lot of hoops to get a senior trip with my grandparents excused. And you know what? It really was educational and more worthwhile than another week of high school.

Even if you're categorizing turtles in the Galapagos in Spanish, a vacation is a vacation. Schools don't have the resources to assess the educational content of your vacation. And it's true that it's unfair that some kids get marked as absent, while other pushier parents get excused absences because they know how to work the system.

[Anonymous]

Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.

Stop deflecting. Neither a funeral or a week at Disney would add up to 47 unexcused absences.

47 days is 9 weeks. 9 weeks. Who goes on vacation or goes to a funeral for 9 weeks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There should be sometime of modified high school diploma that a kid who does some work but does not meet all requirements can obtain. Kids with 47 unexcused absences who fail to make them up in summer school should not be receiving the same diploma as their peers that didn't skip all their classes. Teachers should not be pressured to pass kids along and should start giving Fs if the kid is actually failing.

Right now all the faux diplomas in MCPS are ONLY helping the administrators appear that they are serving lower performing kids by achieving high graduation numbers.

There is a certificate track. But if kids can meet the academic requirements for a HS diploma, they don’t qualify. Also that limits what a graduate can do in that many jobs require a HS diploma and, of course college admission requires a HS diploma.

Problem with an attendance requirement is that kids who have illnesses that result in substantial missed time from school would not qualify for a HS diploma even if they could meet the academic requirements. Also, parents would have to pay a lot closer attention to errors. As was discussed earlier in the thread, there are frequent errors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.

Stop deflecting. Neither a funeral or a week at Disney would add up to 47 unexcused absences.

47 days is 9 weeks. 9 weeks. Who goes on vacation or goes to a funeral for 9 weeks?

Not straight, but I have a student who has tacked 2-3 days onto every 3 day weekend or holiday so far this year. She is sick, of course. The family goes somewhere sunny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.


Stop deflecting. Neither a funeral or a week at Disney would add up to 47 unexcused absences.

47 days is 9 weeks. 9 weeks. Who goes on vacation or goes to a funeral for 9 weeks?


Not straight, but I have a student who has tacked 2-3 days onto every 3 day weekend or holiday so far this year. She is sick, of course. The family goes somewhere sunny.

And this still wouldn't add up to 47 days.

I don't support people taking kids out for a vacation but you know that this isn't the issue here. 47 days or more is truancy. The kids skipping school for this amount of time are not completing the material or passing the tests. They are truant, failing and teachers are pressured to pass them anyway so they can get a diploma. Don't lesson how bad this is or try to build some false comparison.

[Anonymous]

It was not 47 days of school. It was 47 periods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.

Stop deflecting. Neither a funeral or a week at Disney would add up to 47 unexcused absences.

47 days is 9 weeks. 9 weeks. Who goes on vacation or goes to a funeral for 9 weeks?

47 unexcused absences is 47 classes. My kid's high school has 7 classes per day. So 7 days of school. Not 9 weeks of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.


Stop deflecting. Neither a funeral or a week at Disney would add up to 47 unexcused absences.

47 days is 9 weeks. 9 weeks. Who goes on vacation or goes to a funeral for 9 weeks?


47 unexcused absences is 47 classes. My kid's high school has 7 classes per day. So 7 days of school. Not 9 weeks of school.

The article HEADLINE is missing 47 DAYS OF ENGLISH. This is 9 weeks of a core class. Do you really think that these kids are hustling it in for math on those days? No.

This isn't about trips and it isn't happening at wealthy schools. It isn't a front office staff typing something in incorrectly. Einstein is failing large numbers of kids and hiding it to keep their numbers up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.


Stop deflecting. Neither a funeral or a week at Disney would add up to 47 unexcused absences.

47 days is 9 weeks. 9 weeks. Who goes on vacation or goes to a funeral for 9 weeks?


47 unexcused absences is 47 classes. My kid's high school has 7 classes per day. So 7 days of school. Not 9 weeks of school.

The article HEADLINE is missing 47 DAYS OF ENGLISH. This is 9 weeks of a core class. Do you really think that these kids are hustling it in for math on those days? No.

This isn't about trips and it isn't happening at wealthy schools. It isn't a front office staff typing something in incorrectly. Einstein is failing large numbers of kids and hiding it to keep their numbers up.

1 student missed 47 days of English.

Here's what the piece says:

Records from Einstein High provide telling details about what students miss: One senior skipped algebra 36 times last spring. Another racked up 47 unexcused absences in English. Still another was gone for more than half a semester of chemistry.

Roughly 40 percent of Einstein’s Class of 2018 missed large chunks of instruction last school year, not showing up for some classes 10 to more than 50 times in a semester, documents show.

It would be useful if they told us how many students missed how many classes, but they don't. Nonetheless, I infer that if lots of students had missed that many classes, the article would say so, rather than singling out the 1 student on the extreme end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.


Stop deflecting. Neither a funeral or a week at Disney would add up to 47 unexcused absences.

47 days is 9 weeks. 9 weeks. Who goes on vacation or goes to a funeral for 9 weeks?


47 unexcused absences is 47 classes. My kid's high school has 7 classes per day. So 7 days of school. Not 9 weeks of school.

The article HEADLINE is missing 47 DAYS OF ENGLISH. This is 9 weeks of a core class. Do you really think that these kids are hustling it in for math on those days? No.

This isn't about trips and it isn't happening at wealthy schools. It isn't a front office staff typing something in incorrectly. Einstein is failing large numbers of kids and hiding it to keep their numbers up.

1 student missed 47 days of English.

Here's what the piece says:

Records from Einstein High provide telling details about what students miss: One senior skipped algebra 36 times last spring. Another racked up 47 unexcused absences in English. Still another was gone for more than half a semester of chemistry.

Roughly 40 percent of Einstein’s Class of 2018 missed large chunks of instruction last school year, not showing up for some classes 10 to more than 50 times in a semester, documents show.

It would be useful if they told us how many students missed how many classes, but they don't. Nonetheless, I infer that if lots of students had missed that many classes, the article would say so, rather than singling out the 1 student on the extreme end.

Good headlines come from the extreme end, not the average.

[Anonymous]

This the equity MCPS wants to achieve: all students will gratuate from its high schools, no matter they are from rich or poor families, no matter they learned Math and English or not. Equal outcome for evry student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.


Stop deflecting. Neither a funeral or a week at Disney would add up to 47 unexcused absences.

47 days is 9 weeks. 9 weeks. Who goes on vacation or goes to a funeral for 9 weeks?


47 unexcused absences is 47 classes. My kid's high school has 7 classes per day. So 7 days of school. Not 9 weeks of school.

The article HEADLINE is missing 47 DAYS OF ENGLISH. This is 9 weeks of a core class. Do you really think that these kids are hustling it in for math on those days? No.

This isn't about trips and it isn't happening at wealthy schools. It isn't a front office staff typing something in incorrectly. Einstein is failing large numbers of kids and hiding it to keep their numbers up.

The heck it's not. It is just students and parents at wealthy schools (and UMC students in general) know how to play the game and write excused notes all the time. I have kids that are routinely absent one or two days per week the entire year. (That'll add up to more than 40.) Strangely, they seem to fall on days of big quizzes and tests. Or there are the students who are doing to many activities and routinely take a day or two off every couple of weeks to catch up. And there are the kids who feel a little stressed out by school and find that they can get their friends to tell them what happened in class and do enough self-studying while they are home to keep up. The biggest problem I have with the Washington Post article is that it misses the actual scope of the problem by not including excused absences, and ignores the data that came out with the Maryland school report cards that shows the extent of chronic absences (which only includes full days).

Our current system of high school and awarding high school diplomas was based on a model of school attendance to gain access to information that could not readily be obtained elsewhere from last century. Ever since the internet and the readily available information on everything, the actual need to go to school to learn has been reduced. I can't believe one of our own board members said "It seems incongruous that you could pass high school math and not be there". Clearly she has never heard about Khan Academy.

We are really at the point where we need different types of diplomas that match the learning needs and desires of students. Some need a more traditional approach for a college ready educational experience. Some would do better with a self paced, online, demonstration of mastery process. And some would do best with a minimal, just meeting the graduation requirements diploma (22.5 credits only, thank you). Getting hung up on attendance accounting right now is missing the bigger, overall problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Start by demanding that family vacations are not excused regardless of the socioeconomic status of the family. Write letters to the BOE and Smith on this issue specifically. Ask why a week at Disney is an educational experience, but attending the funeral of a cousin is an excused absence.


Stop deflecting. Neither a funeral or a week at Disney would add up to 47 unexcused absences.

47 days is 9 weeks. 9 weeks. Who goes on vacation or goes to a funeral for 9 weeks?


47 unexcused absences is 47 classes. My kid's high school has 7 classes per day. So 7 days of school. Not 9 weeks of school.

The article HEADLINE is missing 47 DAYS OF ENGLISH. This is 9 weeks of a core class. Do you really think that these kids are hustling it in for math on those days? No.

This isn't about trips and it isn't happening at wealthy schools. It isn't a front office staff typing something in incorrectly. Einstein is failing large numbers of kids and hiding it to keep their numbers up.

The heck it's not. It is just students and parents at wealthy schools (and UMC students in general) know how to play the game and write excused notes all the time. I have kids that are routinely absent one or two days per week the entire year. (That'll add up to more than 40.) Strangely, they seem to fall on days of big quizzes and tests. Or there are the students who are doing to many activities and routinely take a day or two off every couple of weeks to catch up. And there are the kids who feel a little stressed out by school and find that they can get their friends to tell them what happened in class and do enough self-studying while they are home to keep up. The biggest problem I have with the Washington Post article is that it misses the actual scope of the problem by not including excused absences, and ignores the data that came out with the Maryland school report cards that shows the extent of chronic absences (which only includes full days).

Our current system of high school and awarding high school diplomas was based on a model of school attendance to gain access to information that could not readily be obtained elsewhere from last century. Ever since the internet and the readily available information on everything, the actual need to go to school to learn has been reduced. I can't believe one of our own board members said "It seems incongruous that you could pass high school math and not be there". Clearly she has never heard about Khan Academy.

We are really at the point where we need different types of diplomas that match the learning needs and desires of students. Some need a more traditional approach for a college ready educational experience. Some would do better with a self paced, online, demonstration of mastery process. And some would do best with a minimal, just meeting the graduation requirements diploma (22.5 credits only, thank you). Getting hung up on attendance accounting right now is missing the bigger, overall problem.

There’s a lot of truth in that post. I’m an educator and actually don’t have a problem with kids occasionally taking a mental health day or a day to catch up. They’re people, just like us. But I agree that it’s the UMC families who know how to work the system.