Shaw Middle School -- what's the plan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

The dual feed will be shut off soon, just like it was for Eaton. Especially since. the PK-8 models are being phased out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

Solving this does not require opening Shaw MS. Just send the SWW middle schoolers (SWW, Ross, and Thomson) to Cardozo along with Cleveland, Seaton, and Garrison. There's room, and it would allow more room at SWW for elementary students (including special ed classrooms and more PK, both of which are in huge demand).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

The dual feed will be shut off soon, just like it was for Eaton. Especially since. the PK-8 models are being phased out.

what schools would feed to shaw that produce a consistent and large cohort of high achieving students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

The dual feed will be shut off soon, just like it was for Eaton. Especially since. the PK-8 models are being phased out.

what schools would feed to shaw that produce a consistent and large cohort of high achieving students?

This thread has gotten far too long, and this is addressed earlier. All of these 5 schools have solid scores, some higher than others, but still a very solid group in terms of testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

The dual feed will be shut off soon, just like it was for Eaton. Especially since. the PK-8 models are being phased out.

what schools would feed to shaw that produce a consistent and large cohort of high achieving students?

If the SWW and Cardozo feeds were combined at Cardozo, you'd get a pretty good number. Using the grade audits from https://osse.dc.gov/page/2017-18-school-year-enrollment-audit-report-and-data and the results dc PARCC info (averaging the math and ELA scores of 4 or 5):

Cleveland: 31 5th graders, 33% proficiency = 10 proficient kids (note: some are in the dual-language program and also have rights to MacFarland)
Garrison: 24 5th graders, 13% proficiency = 3 proficient kids
Ross: 12 5th graders, 75% proficiency = 9 proficient kids (note: if Ross stopped being able to get away with not filling their testing-grades classes through the lottery, there might be a couple more here)
Seaton: 30 5th graders, 29% proficiency = 9 proficient kids
SWW: 44 5th graders, 49% proficiency = 22 proficient kids (note: if middle school left SWW, there'd be room for more 5th graders)
Thomson: 32 5th graders, 23 % proficiency = 7 proficient kids

60 proficient kids per grade with a right to attend is decent, even noting that some will choose charters, OOB, or private schools. I'm sure Deal and Hardy have more 5th graders at their feeder schools who are proficient, but this is a high enough number to offer advanced classes (especially given that my numbers average math and ELA...there may be may kids who'd qualify for advanced math but not ELA or vice versa) and for kids on or above grade level to have some peers. Is it going to work for a family that wants a Lake Wobegone school? No. But the families who send kids to these schools for 5th grade seem open to having a mix of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

Solving this does not require opening Shaw MS. Just send the SWW middle schoolers (SWW, Ross, and Thomson) to Cardozo along with Cleveland, Seaton, and Garrison. There's room, and it would allow more room at SWW for elementary students (including special ed classrooms and more PK, both of which are in huge demand).

The problem is that they won't send their kids there. The issue with Cadozo MS is that it's connected to a very low performing high school with a history of behavioral problems. It's scary for parents to think about sending their 10 year olds to that kind of environment, regardless of how separate the MS is from the HS. The appeal of a Shaw MS would that it would be a stand-alone, brand new MS. Parents would be more likely to take a chance on a new school than one with a history of low performance. I say this as someone without any kids, without a real stake in the issue, but as someone who had spent time in Cardozo HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

Solving this does not require opening Shaw MS. Just send the SWW middle schoolers (SWW, Ross, and Thomson) to Cardozo along with Cleveland, Seaton, and Garrison. There's room, and it would allow more room at SWW for elementary students (including special ed classrooms and more PK, both of which are in huge demand).

The problem is that they won't send their kids there. The issue with Cadozo MS is that it's connected to a very low performing high school with a history of behavioral problems. It's scary for parents to think about sending their 10 year olds to that kind of environment, regardless of how separate the MS is from the HS. The appeal of a Shaw MS would that it would be a stand-alone, brand new MS. Parents would be more likely to take a chance on a new school than one with a history of low performance. I say this as someone without any kids, without a real stake in the issue, but as someone who had spent time in Cardozo HS.

In addition to this, there is the obvious inconvenience that Cardozo is NOT IN SHAW. it's not walkable to the vast majority of kids who go to the Shaw feeder schools; the Shaw Middle School site is just a couple blocks from Seaton, Garrison and Cleveland, and just more tha half a mile from Ross and Thomson. That is the issue here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

Solving this does not require opening Shaw MS. Just send the SWW middle schoolers (SWW, Ross, and Thomson) to Cardozo along with Cleveland, Seaton, and Garrison. There's room, and it would allow more room at SWW for elementary students (including special ed classrooms and more PK, both of which are in huge demand).

The problem is that they won't send their kids there. The issue with Cadozo MS is that it's connected to a very low performing high school with a history of behavioral problems. It's scary for parents to think about sending their 10 year olds to that kind of environment, regardless of how separate the MS is from the HS. The appeal of a Shaw MS would that it would be a stand-alone, brand new MS. Parents would be more likely to take a chance on a new school than one with a history of low performance. I say this as someone without any kids, without a real stake in the issue, but as someone who had spent time in Cardozo HS.

People send their 3 year olds to schools with 8th graders (some of whom have behavioral problems). Ballou and Roosevelt parents send their kids to school in the same building as adults in the STAY program. Even a stand-alone middle school will have older siblings, parents, and others--some with behavior problems--coming into or waiting outside the building. With so many open DCPS middle school seats, I don't think there's any need to open another school for the few parents who'd be ok with Shaw but have ruled out Cardozo.

But here's another option, probably politically unpalatable to Banneker families and offered too late in the planning process but that would work just as well: open Shaw as a middle school. Send all the kids currently routed to SWW and Cardozo there. And put Banneker in the middle school space at Cardozo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

The dual feed will be shut off soon, just like it was for Eaton. Especially since. the PK-8 models are being phased out.

what schools would feed to shaw that produce a consistent and large cohort of high achieving students?

If the SWW and Cardozo feeds were combined at Cardozo, you'd get a pretty good number. Using the grade audits from https://osse.dc.gov/page/2017-18-school-year-enrollment-audit-report-and-data and the results dc PARCC info (averaging the math and ELA scores of 4 or 5):

Cleveland: 31 5th graders, 33% proficiency = 10 proficient kids (note: some are in the dual-language program and also have rights to MacFarland)
Garrison: 24 5th graders, 13% proficiency = 3 proficient kids
Ross: 12 5th graders, 75% proficiency = 9 proficient kids note: if Ross stopped being able to get away with not filling their testing-grades classes through the lottery, there might be a couple more here)
Seaton: 30 5th graders, 29% proficiency = 9 proficient kids
SWW: 44 5th graders, 49% proficiency = 22 proficient kids (note: if middle school left SWW, there'd be room for more 5th graders)
Thomson: 32 5th graders, 23 % proficiency = 7 proficient kids

60 proficient kids per grade with a right to attend is decent, even noting that some will choose charters, OOB, or private schools. I'm sure Deal and Hardy have more 5th graders at their feeder schools who are proficient, but this is a high enough number to offer advanced classes (especially given that my numbers average math and ELA...there may be may kids who'd qualify for advanced math but not ELA or vice versa) and for kids on or above grade level to have some peers. Is it going to work for a family that wants a Lake Wobegone school? No. But the families who send kids to these schools for 5th grade seem open to having a mix of kids.

Outcome of the 2014 boundary review for each of these schools was that families will have a right to attend the middle school they are currently assigned to "until Shaw MS reopens." Doubt this will be revisited until the next boundary review (scheduled for 2022).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

Solving this does not require opening Shaw MS. Just send the SWW middle schoolers (SWW, Ross, and Thomson) to Cardozo along with Cleveland, Seaton, and Garrison. There's room, and it would allow more room at SWW for elementary students (including special ed classrooms and more PK, both of which are in huge demand).

The problem is that they won't send their kids there. The issue with Cadozo MS is that it's connected to a very low performing high school with a history of behavioral problems. It's scary for parents to think about sending their 10 year olds to that kind of environment, regardless of how separate the MS is from the HS. The appeal of a Shaw MS would that it would be a stand-alone, brand new MS. Parents would be more likely to take a chance on a new school than one with a history of low performance. I say this as someone without any kids, without a real stake in the issue, but as someone who had spent time in Cardozo HS.

In addition to this, there is the obvious inconvenience that Cardozo is NOT IN SHAW. it's not walkable to the vast majority of kids who go to the Shaw feeder schools; the Shaw Middle School site is just a couple blocks from Seaton, Garrison and Cleveland, and just more tha half a mile from Ross and Thomson. That is the issue here.

The Shaw Middle School site is large --- ANC commisioner Alex Padro wants to request that the city put both Banneker and the Shaw Middle School on that site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

Solving this does not require opening Shaw MS. Just send the SWW middle schoolers (SWW, Ross, and Thomson) to Cardozo along with Cleveland, Seaton, and Garrison. There's room, and it would allow more room at SWW for elementary students (including special ed classrooms and more PK, both of which are in huge demand).

The problem is that they won't send their kids there. The issue with Cadozo MS is that it's connected to a very low performing high school with a history of behavioral problems. It's scary for parents to think about sending their 10 year olds to that kind of environment, regardless of how separate the MS is from the HS. The appeal of a Shaw MS would that it would be a stand-alone, brand new MS. Parents would be more likely to take a chance on a new school than one with a history of low performance. I say this as someone without any kids, without a real stake in the issue, but as someone who had spent time in Cardozo HS.

So you'll end up with the same problem as Capitol Hill has--the high-performing elementary schools there feed to three different middle schools and it's hard to get a critical mass of kids at or above grade level, thus limited middle-class buy-in. These six schools are all headed to Cardozo for HS anyway; might as well group the kids together ASAP and have a middle school big enough for good extracurriculars and differentiated classes.
In addition to this, there is the obvious inconvenience that Cardozo is NOT IN SHAW. it's not walkable to the vast majority of kids who go to the Shaw feeder schools; the Shaw Middle School site is just a couple blocks from Seaton, Garrison and Cleveland, and just more tha half a mile from Ross and Thomson. That is the issue here.

The Shaw Middle School site is large --- ANC commisioner Alex Padro wants to request that the city put both Banneker and the Shaw Middle School on that site.

[Anonymous]

If any of this even happens, it will take years and will be too late for most of us who already have kids in elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

Solving this does not require opening Shaw MS. Just send the SWW middle schoolers (SWW, Ross, and Thomson) to Cardozo along with Cleveland, Seaton, and Garrison. There's room, and it would allow more room at SWW for elementary students (including special ed classrooms and more PK, both of which are in huge demand).

The problem is that they won't send their kids there. The issue with Cadozo MS is that it's connected to a very low performing high school with a history of behavioral problems. It's scary for parents to think about sending their 10 year olds to that kind of environment, regardless of how separate the MS is from the HS. The appeal of a Shaw MS would that it would be a stand-alone, brand new MS. Parents would be more likely to take a chance on a new school than one with a history of low performance. I say this as someone without any kids, without a real stake in the issue, but as someone who had spent time in Cardozo HS.

In addition to this, there is the obvious inconvenience that Cardozo is NOT IN SHAW. it's not walkable to the vast majority of kids who go to the Shaw feeder schools; the Shaw Middle School site is just a couple blocks from Seaton, Garrison and Cleveland, and just more tha half a mile from Ross and Thomson. That is the issue here.

The Shaw Middle School site is large --- ANC commisioner Alex Padro wants to request that the city put both Banneker and the Shaw Middle School on that site.

DCPS wants to expand Banneker to take another 150-200 students, so co-location probably isn't an optin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If any of this even happens, it will take years and will be too late for most of us who already have kids in elementary school.

They can go to a newly renovated Banneker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP nailed it. What would a Shaw middle school offer to make it different from Cardozo? You need a critical mass of high achieving students to turn a middle school around.

Shaw MS would have a different group of feeder schools than Cardozo that potentially do in fact have a critical mass of high achieving students. Right now this cluster of schools is divided for the temporary feeder system with two of the schools going to SWW.

The dual feed will be shut off soon, just like it was for Eaton. Especially since. the PK-8 models are being phased out.

what schools would feed to shaw that produce a consistent and large cohort of high achieving students?

If the SWW and Cardozo feeds were combined at Cardozo, you'd get a pretty good number. Using the grade audits from https://osse.dc.gov/page/2017-18-school-year-enrollment-audit-report-and-data and the results dc PARCC info (averaging the math and ELA scores of 4 or 5):

Cleveland: 31 5th graders, 33% proficiency = 10 proficient kids (note: some are in the dual-language program and also have rights to MacFarland)
Garrison: 24 5th graders, 13% proficiency = 3 proficient kids
Ross: 12 5th graders, 75% proficiency = 9 proficient kids (note: if Ross stopped being able to get away with not filling their testing-grades classes through the lottery, there might be a couple more here)
Seaton: 30 5th graders, 29% proficiency = 9 proficient kids
SWW: 44 5th graders, 49% proficiency = 22 proficient kids (note: if middle school left SWW, there'd be room for more 5th graders)
Thomson: 32 5th graders, 23 % proficiency = 7 proficient kids

60 proficient kids per grade with a right to attend is decent, even noting that some will choose charters, OOB, or private schools. I'm sure Deal and Hardy have more 5th graders at their feeder schools who are proficient, but this is a high enough number to offer advanced classes (especially given that my numbers average math and ELA...there may be may kids who'd qualify for advanced math but not ELA or vice versa) and for kids on or above grade level to have some peers. Is it going to work for a family that wants a Lake Wobegone school? No. But the families who send kids to these schools for 5th grade seem open to having a mix of kids.

There is the obvious problem that the proposed middle school would need to do tracking. And DCPS is anti-tracking. At least that is what failed Brookland middle.