What is Middle Class....Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

No one is debating that the COL is high in DC and other major metro areas. The fact still remains that 180k is still not poor/lower middle like some would suggest on these boards.

You can define middle class but hhi or by lifestyle. That's where the confusion is. Both answers are correct

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area.

If you're unable to separate income from class, then I can't argue. If you're willing to do a little research on social class, then we can debate.

Living in a city is almost a prerequisite to being middle class. Being a millionaire farmer means being a prole, despite the wealth. Being a well known professor at Georgetown is upper middle class (assuming that the person doesn't ignore the social cues).

Sean Spicer is SES and showed his prole upbringing by not knowing how a suit should fit or appropriate colors and styles. He's getting educated on how to look and act upper middle class.

A firefighter married to an executive secretary are not middle class, even if their HHI is well over $100k.

Maybe reading Pride and Prejudice and reflecting on how little class has changed behind the scenes would help..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

You choose bad housing and crap schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

You choose bad housing and crap schools.

Really? My entire family is happy with Oyster (especially my bilingual--soon to be trilingual children). They will attend a private high school in DC. We are also very happy with our single family detached home in Woodley Park. If we weren't, we would move...to any neighborhood we want. That's because we have options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

You choose bad housing and crap schools.

Really? My entire family is happy with Oyster (especially my bilingual--soon to be trilingual children). They will attend a private high school in DC. We are also very happy with our single family detached home in Woodley Park. If we weren't, we would move...to any neighborhood we want. That's because we have options.

OP here, and thank you. You seem to get what so many in your income bracket fail to appreciate - that living in a single-family house in a major city, being able to afford private schools for children, enjoying international vacations, and so forth, is NOT a middle-class lifestyle. This attitude I keep hearing (after I pay for my million-dollar house and the private school bills, I can't afford to fly first-class to Europe, so I am therefore living a middle-class life) is completely deluded thinking - and insulting to people who are truly in the middle-class and can barely afford a week at the beach in a modest rental (if that).

My main point was that the aforementioned HHI earners who not only insist that $350K provides only for a middle-class lifestyle but - even worse - insist that someone with a $100,000 salary is poor (or lower class) are alienating the majority of American voters. It's so, well....entitled. I had someone tell me that he gives extra large tips to waitresses because....wait for it.....they probably only make $100,000 a year, and that's pretty hard to get by on. Hello? In NO world is $100,00 hard to get by on (that's for a single) if you are willing to live in the suburbs and buy a moderate place. It is not poor. (It's actually leaning toward the high end of middle.)

This deluded thinking seems much more prevalent among Democrats. They are now proudly proclaim themselves party of the educated "elite" while making disparaging remarks about flyover country - while Republicans are seen as caring for the "working man." You can see this via the campaign styles. Hillary isolated herself from middle-America, choosing instead to hobknob will Hollywood elites at $10,000/plate fundraisers, while Trump whooped it up with the steelworkers in PA. (Why was Hillary spending time in CA at all? She already had that state. But I digress.....)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

You choose bad housing and crap schools.

Really? My entire family is happy with Oyster (especially my bilingual--soon to be trilingual children). They will attend a private high school in DC. We are also very happy with our single family detached home in Woodley Park. If we weren't, we would move...to any neighborhood we want. That's because we have options.

You're an idiot. Why would you provide so much identifying information? Do you really think the struggling people in flyover, or anywhere for that matter, really give a damn that you think that you're wealthy? Are they going to applaud your "honesty?" How does it help them? To a person making 20k in Kansas, someone else making 50k in DC still looks wealthier on paper even if they have the same lifestyle. They will resent the townie for making more, but still whining and being generally "out of touch." This thread is merely provocative and designed to incite class warfare, just like the endless wohm vs. sahm debates. OP, are you writing an article or book about out of touch assholes in dc who got the Republicans elected? What got them elected was the cunning of their party and the bumbling incompetence of the Democrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

You choose bad housing and crap schools.

Really? My entire family is happy with Oyster (especially my bilingual--soon to be trilingual children). They will attend a private high school in DC. We are also very happy with our single family detached home in Woodley Park. If we weren't, we would move...to any neighborhood we want. That's because we have options.

You're an idiot. Why would you provide so much identifying information? Do you really think the struggling people in flyover, or anywhere for that matter, really give a damn that you think that you're wealthy? Are they going to applaud your "honesty?" How does it help them? To a person making 20k in Kansas, someone else making 50k in DC still looks wealthier on paper even if they have the same lifestyle. They will resent the townie for making more, but still whining and being generally "out of touch." This thread is merely provocative and designed to incite class warfare, just like the endless wohm vs. sahm debates. OP, are you writing an article or book about out of touch assholes in dc who got the Republicans elected? What got them elected was the cunning of their party and the bumbling incompetence of the Democrats.

No, I'm not writing a book. I'm explaining that when upper-income families worry about $3 million not being enough in retirement or putting down families earning $200K as not being able to afford a middle-class life, they are demonstrating the very out-of-touch thinking that has infuriated the largest voting bloc in the country - lower-middle and working class - and causing these families to throw up their hands at the delusional thinking in Washington, DC.

Also, it wasn't me you addressed as an idiot, but she didn't post too much identifying information. You really think she's the only family in Woodley Park with bilingual children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

You choose bad housing and crap schools.

Really? My entire family is happy with Oyster (especially my bilingual--soon to be trilingual children). They will attend a private high school in DC. We are also very happy with our single family detached home in Woodley Park. If we weren't, we would move...to any neighborhood we want. That's because we have options.

You're an idiot. Why would you provide so much identifying information? Do you really think the struggling people in flyover, or anywhere for that matter, really give a damn that you think that you're wealthy? Are they going to applaud your "honesty?" How does it help them? To a person making 20k in Kansas, someone else making 50k in DC still looks wealthier on paper even if they have the same lifestyle. They will resent the townie for making more, but still whining and being generally "out of touch." This thread is merely provocative and designed to incite class warfare, just like the endless wohm vs. sahm debates. OP, are you writing an article or book about out of touch assholes in dc who got the Republicans elected? What got them elected was the cunning of their party and the bumbling incompetence of the Democrats.

No, I'm not writing a book. I'm explaining that when upper-income families worry about $3 million not being enough in retirement or putting down families earning $200K as not being able to afford a middle-class life, they are demonstrating the very out-of-touch thinking that has infuriated the largest voting bloc in the country - lower-middle and working class - and causing these families to throw up their hands at the delusional thinking in Washington, DC.

Also, it wasn't me you addressed as an idiot, but she didn't post too much identifying information. You really think she's the only family in Woodley Park with bilingual children?

....also, in case I wasn't clear enough (OP again), your calling someone you know nothing about an "idiot" and accusing them of choosing "crap schools" shows that you are one of the elitists causing the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

You choose bad housing and crap schools.

Really? My entire family is happy with Oyster (especially my bilingual--soon to be trilingual children). They will attend a private high school in DC. We are also very happy with our single family detached home in Woodley Park. If we weren't, we would move...to any neighborhood we want. That's because we have options.

You're an idiot. Why would you provide so much identifying information? Do you really think the struggling people in flyover, or anywhere for that matter, really give a damn that you think that you're wealthy? Are they going to applaud your "honesty?" How does it help them? To a person making 20k in Kansas, someone else making 50k in DC still looks wealthier on paper even if they have the same lifestyle. They will resent the townie for making more, but still whining and being generally "out of touch." This thread is merely provocative and designed to incite class warfare, just like the endless wohm vs. sahm debates. OP, are you writing an article or book about out of touch assholes in dc who got the Republicans elected? What got them elected was the cunning of their party and the bumbling incompetence of the Democrats.

No, I'm not writing a book. I'm explaining that when upper-income families worry about $3 million not being enough in retirement or putting down families earning $200K as not being able to afford a middle-class life, they are demonstrating the very out-of-touch thinking that has infuriated the largest voting bloc in the country - lower-middle and working class - and causing these families to throw up their hands at the delusional thinking in Washington, DC.

Also, it wasn't me you addressed as an idiot, but she didn't post too much identifying information. You really think she's the only family in Woodley Park with bilingual children?

....also, in case I wasn't clear enough (OP again), your calling someone you know nothing about an "idiot" and accusing them of choosing "crap schools" shows that you are one of the elitists causing the problem.

Aw are you upset that I offended your anonymous internet buddy? Stop belaboring your point. This and the fact you can't keep facts or posters straight shows that you are mentally slow. One doesn't need to know you personally to correctly ascertain this. You constantly mention the largest bloc being frustrated with "liberal elites," but you fail to understand that half of eligible voters didn't even vote this election. If Democrats had given us even a half decent candidate, moderate and sane, they would have won. America, rich and poor, is fed up with Washington so get out with your class warfare BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

You choose bad housing and crap schools.

Really? My entire family is happy with Oyster (especially my bilingual--soon to be trilingual children). They will attend a private high school in DC. We are also very happy with our single family detached home in Woodley Park. If we weren't, we would move...to any neighborhood we want. That's because we have options.

You're an idiot. Why would you provide so much identifying information? Do you really think the struggling people in flyover, or anywhere for that matter, really give a damn that you think that you're wealthy? Are they going to applaud your "honesty?" How does it help them? To a person making 20k in Kansas, someone else making 50k in DC still looks wealthier on paper even if they have the same lifestyle. They will resent the townie for making more, but still whining and being generally "out of touch." This thread is merely provocative and designed to incite class warfare, just like the endless wohm vs. sahm debates. OP, are you writing an article or book about out of touch assholes in dc who got the Republicans elected? What got them elected was the cunning of their party and the bumbling incompetence of the Democrats.

No, I'm not writing a book. I'm explaining that when upper-income families worry about $3 million not being enough in retirement or putting down families earning $200K as not being able to afford a middle-class life, they are demonstrating the very out-of-touch thinking that has infuriated the largest voting bloc in the country - lower-middle and working class - and causing these families to throw up their hands at the delusional thinking in Washington, DC.

Also, it wasn't me you addressed as an idiot, but she didn't post too much identifying information. You really think she's the only family in Woodley Park with bilingual children?

....also, in case I wasn't clear enough (OP again), your calling someone you know nothing about an "idiot" and accusing them of choosing "crap schools" shows that you are one of the elitists causing the problem.

Aw are you upset that I offended your anonymous internet buddy? Stop belaboring your point. This and the fact you can't keep facts or posters straight shows that you are mentally slow. One doesn't need to know you personally to correctly ascertain this. You constantly mention the largest bloc being frustrated with "liberal elites," but you fail to understand that half of eligible voters didn't even vote this election. If Democrats had given us even a half decent candidate, moderate and sane, they would have won. America, rich and poor, is fed up with Washington so get out with your class warfare BS.

NP. You sound angry and bitter. Someone please give this person a hug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

You choose bad housing and crap schools.

Really? My entire family is happy with Oyster (especially my bilingual--soon to be trilingual children). They will attend a private high school in DC. We are also very happy with our single family detached home in Woodley Park. If we weren't, we would move...to any neighborhood we want. That's because we have options.

You're an idiot. Why would you provide so much identifying information? Do you really think the struggling people in flyover, or anywhere for that matter, really give a damn that you think that you're wealthy? Are they going to applaud your "honesty?" How does it help them? To a person making 20k in Kansas, someone else making 50k in DC still looks wealthier on paper even if they have the same lifestyle. They will resent the townie for making more, but still whining and being generally "out of touch." This thread is merely provocative and designed to incite class warfare, just like the endless wohm vs. sahm debates. OP, are you writing an article or book about out of touch assholes in dc who got the Republicans elected? What got them elected was the cunning of their party and the bumbling incompetence of the Democrats.

No, I'm not writing a book. I'm explaining that when upper-income families worry about $3 million not being enough in retirement or putting down families earning $200K as not being able to afford a middle-class life, they are demonstrating the very out-of-touch thinking that has infuriated the largest voting bloc in the country - lower-middle and working class - and causing these families to throw up their hands at the delusional thinking in Washington, DC.

Also, it wasn't me you addressed as an idiot, but she didn't post too much identifying information. You really think she's the only family in Woodley Park with bilingual children?

....also, in case I wasn't clear enough (OP again), your calling someone you know nothing about an "idiot" and accusing them of choosing "crap schools" shows that you are one of the elitists causing the problem.

Aw are you upset that I offended your anonymous internet buddy? Stop belaboring your point. This and the fact you can't keep facts or posters straight shows that you are mentally slow. One doesn't need to know you personally to correctly ascertain this. You constantly mention the largest bloc being frustrated with "liberal elites," but you fail to understand that half of eligible voters didn't even vote this election. If Democrats had given us even a half decent candidate, moderate and sane, they would have won. America, rich and poor, is fed up with Washington so get out with your class warfare BS.

OP. So now not only am I accused of almost qualifying for welfare because as a single income I bring in only $100,000....now I'm mentally slow, to boot. You are demonstrating my point.

[Anonymous]

The American middle class, at least those living the lifestyle, has become known around the world for conspicuous consumption. To this day, the professional middle class in the United States holds the world record for having the largest homes, most appliances, and most automobiles. In 2005, the average new home had a square footage of 2,434 square feet (roughly 226 square meters) with 58% of these homes having ceilings with heights in excess of nine feet on the first floor. As new homes only represent a small portion of the housing stock in the US, with most suburban homes having been built in the 1970s when the average square footage was 1,600,[33] it is fair to assume that these large new suburban homes will be inhabited by members of the professional middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My main point was that the aforementioned HHI earners who not only insist that $350K provides only for a middle-class lifestyle but - even worse - insist that someone with a $100,000 salary is poor (or lower class) are alienating the majority of American voters. It's so, well....entitled. I had someone tell me that he gives extra large tips to waitresses because....wait for it.....they probably only make $100,000 a year, and that's pretty hard to get by on.

Well, if someone is a UAW worker putting in lots of OT and making $120k per year, then they're still part of the proletariat. Nice income though. Gives them a chance to be millionaire-next-door wealthy. Damn hard to develop the taste, language, education, etc. to move up to middle class or upper middle class though.

Someone making $100,000 is not poor, but you need to understand much more before you insert them blindly into a class.

Don't get me wrong -- all the discussion of "class" is absolutely elitist. American's typically don't talk about class due to these issues. It's much clearer in Europe.

The class distinctions are becoming more apparent in the US and there's a lot of anger when people realize how difficult it is to move up in class and fear about dropping in class. You see this in the insanity about getting your kids into the best universities. You might not get a better education at Harvard than UVa, but you'll have a better path to move to the upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you seem to not understand that even though folks around here make more money, we have much higher living expenses. Our HHI is $180 and we live in DC. Mortgage is $1,800 and we have two kids in daycare at a neighborhood place run in a church basement for $2,400/month, which is pretty cheap for two kids under two in D.C.

My older sister and her family live in rural Indiana. Her HHI is $55k. Their mortgage is $300. Until recently they had two kids in daycare as well and that was by far heir biggest expense at $500/month.

Point is, our basic living expenses eat up a much larger portion of our income than what my sister's family does, even though we make several times what she does.

So many people here seem not to understand that choosing to live in a major city is an expensive lifestyle choice. Most people living in rural America realize that the mere ability to live within a major city is outside of their budget... living in a city is not a middle class lifestyle (at least not if it comes with all the other things people seem to be associating with "middle class"). I grew up in the rural Midwest and knew many people who commuted 90 miles to the nearest city for work every day because they did not see it as financially feasible to live closer. Living in a city, then calling yourself middle class despite having an income in the top 5% of the country ($214,462 or above) is like choosing to buy a mansion then complaining about not being able to afford a "middle class car" because of your mortgage. There is nothing wrong with living in a city, it gives access to a lot of great amenities, culture, educational opportunities, white collar jobs, short commutes, etc that rural America does not have. But it comes at a cost. If you make over $100-150k you are not middle class even if you choose to live in a high cost of living area (That being said, since so many people do live in the city with much lower incomes, I'm pretty sure it's elitist to consider yourself middle class at a $300k HHI even if just comparing yourself to the locals).

Yes, this! The high-income people are just not getting it. It's like talking to a wall.

These complainers could take that $250,000 HHI, still keeping their DC jobs, and move out 45 minutes where housing is half the price, and other expenses are significantly lower as well. That's what people in the real middle class do - they can't afford the city life. But it is only because these high earners have so much money coming in that they can afford to live in a major city in the first place.

It's as if I moved to Manhattan making $400.000' and then started complaining that my rent is $5000 for a little apartment - and that I'm really a middle class guy like the rest of America, once you factor in my higher living expenses. BUT....I could move out to Bethpage, LI and live like a king. The people in Bethpage (I just picked an example of a real middle to lower-middle income town) will see him as a 1 percenter, and correctly so.

But the underlying point is that when these upper-income people keep insisting how it's a middle-class lifestyle on $350,000 in the city, they are coming across as out-of-touch snobs to the majority of people who can't afford the city at all, and in fact are just getting by on 25% of that income.

+1. You nailed it on the head! We're early 40s with 2 kids, and our HHI is $375k (and has been around that amount for about the last 5 years). No debt, besides our mortgage ($2,800 per month). Our net worth is just under $3 million. We live in Upper NW, and although I don't feel wealthy (no mansion or private jet to our vacation home on MV), I know that we are wealthy. We have options in just about every aspect of our lives (where we live, childrens' education, international travel, healthcare, food, etc). Why is this a debate?

You choose bad housing and crap schools.

Really? My entire family is happy with Oyster (especially my bilingual--soon to be trilingual children). They will attend a private high school in DC. We are also very happy with our single family detached home in Woodley Park. If we weren't, we would move...to any neighborhood we want. That's because we have options.

You're an idiot. Why would you provide so much identifying information? Do you really think the struggling people in flyover, or anywhere for that matter, really give a damn that you think that you're wealthy? Are they going to applaud your "honesty?" How does it help them? To a person making 20k in Kansas, someone else making 50k in DC still looks wealthier on paper even if they have the same lifestyle. They will resent the townie for making more, but still whining and being generally "out of touch." This thread is merely provocative and designed to incite class warfare, just like the endless wohm vs. sahm debates. OP, are you writing an article or book about out of touch assholes in dc who got the Republicans elected? What got them elected was the cunning of their party and the bumbling incompetence of the Democrats.

No, I'm not writing a book. I'm explaining that when upper-income families worry about $3 million not being enough in retirement or putting down families earning $200K as not being able to afford a middle-class life, they are demonstrating the very out-of-touch thinking that has infuriated the largest voting bloc in the country - lower-middle and working class - and causing these families to throw up their hands at the delusional thinking in Washington, DC.

Also, it wasn't me you addressed as an idiot, but she didn't post too much identifying information. You really think she's the only family in Woodley Park with bilingual children?

....also, in case I wasn't clear enough (OP again), your calling someone you know nothing about an "idiot" and accusing them of choosing "crap schools" shows that you are one of the elitists causing the problem.

Aw are you upset that I offended your anonymous internet buddy? Stop belaboring your point. This and the fact you can't keep facts or posters straight shows that you are mentally slow. One doesn't need to know you personally to correctly ascertain this. You constantly mention the largest bloc being frustrated with "liberal elites," but you fail to understand that half of eligible voters didn't even vote this election. If Democrats had given us even a half decent candidate, moderate and sane, they would have won. America, rich and poor, is fed up with Washington so get out with your class warfare BS.

OP. So now not only am I accused of almost qualifying for welfare because as a single income I bring in only $100,000....now I'm mentally slow, to boot. You are demonstrating my point.

NP. Oh my GOD you DO "almost quality for welfare" IF you had a large family (4,5,6 kids) AND live in a high COL area where the dept of HHS has determined that someone making your salary is not quite enough for such a large family! That is not incorrect, out of touch, elitist, or any of the other BS you say people are under. It's just a statement of fact, and actually it shows how "in touch" certain local governments are with the costs associated with living in their jurisdictions. This is a GOOD thing.

You have got some mental issues with YOUR income being at 100k if the above is some kind of problem for you!