Do the recommendations re: BCC boundary study come out today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It sounds like it's an issue of priorities. Some people place a higher priority on convenience, other people place a higher priority on the quality of education, and still others fall somewhere in between.

To be fair, though, the Superintendent did focus on the transportation issue, and that has been raised for some here. A PP said that people who don't like option 7 should offer to go to the school they want. If that were an option, I would stay at Westland, even with the long commute, based on the facilities. ?

It can always be proposed..

I would chose Westland as well. I actually live much closer to Westland than the new middle and it is far more convenient for my kids to go there, transportation wise. My older bikes all the way to Westland on the trail to and from school. Takes him 15 minutes. Convenient and healthy for him and for our family. My younger sons will not get to do the same thing under this new alignment. If the Super is going to base his decision on proximity, then let the CCES kids be able to bike to school on the trail. But we all know the Superintendent isn't worried about how my kids get to school, just the ones at RCF.

I think Chevy Chase areas nearer to Westland should get to go to Westland. Heck give everyone the option, school choice! Let people in CCES, NCC and RCF decide where they want to go. I guarantee not all the RCF parents see the new middle as the be all end all and are steamed at the new middle lines too. The ones who are smart see the larger facility, fields and under capacity as the huge bonuses they are. No one wants to be in an overcrowded school. I would drive miles to get away from an overcrowded school, knowing that a school with fewer kids is ultimately better for my kids. I don't want my kids at a school that is at capacity on the first day it opens.

Why would you say they only care about RCF kids. The decision could have easily gone the other way. Furthermore, CCES and NCC decided that for the purposes of this study they didn't want to split. The board and super took that into consideration. You guys. Ouldve supported a split.

We say they only care about RCF kids because they addressed that neighborhood's needs above all others. The result is that all the communities involved now will go to an overcrowded school so that RCF does not have to commute as they do now. And when we complain, we're told that we don't like mixing with poor kids or that the socio-economic demographics that required us to ship our kindergarteners out of our neighborhoods and split articulations really don't matter all that much. I don't believe that, but, for the sake of a shorter commute, some people are making socio-economic demographics look like a convenient argument when it suits their purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At any moment in this process CCES (tweedledee) and NCC (tweedledum) from the Triad can step up and offer themselves to be bussed to Westland in place of RCF so you want be uncomfortable in the overcrowded/poor middle school. Go for it!

Wait, I thought the triad was Somerset, Westbrook, and Bethesda. Wouldn't NCC and CC just be a duo? In any case, that's a snappy response to avoid an issue you don't want to address, but the reality is that those schools have no ability to self-select, and you know that.

You keep pushing this narrative about a "poor" middle school. If that helps you get through side-stepping substantive issues, fine, but no one here is complaining about their kids going to school with so-called "poor" kids. The issue is one of physical capacity. The new school starts off at a deficit compared to Westland. According to the Superintendent's report, it hits 99% capacity within five years, before any development kicks in. That's a stupid result when the whole point of building the school was to relieve over-crowding.

CCES, NCC and RHPS = Triad

So, there are two triads, one in the east, and one in the west? Wasn't this a martial arts movie?

No you are late to the discussion it seems. CCES, NCC and RHPS have always been the Triad from many historical threads, not the other schools you mentioned.

Correct. No one calls Westbrook, Somerset and Bethesda the Triad.

And there have been a few mentions of the former Leland Junior High School in this thread, as a member of the second site selection committee I can tell you that it was considered but deemed way way way way too small for a middle school. Anyone who is at all familiar with the current Lawton Community Center should be able to attest to that. I don't think there would be room for a large enough building there, much less a field.

Funny, it worked fine for many years as a middle school. It was not way to small. The town doesn't want all the noise and buses in the community. I grew up there. I remember the old Leland very well. Kids could be bused or walk to BCC for the field. Or, they do without like many other schools do.

+1. Or change the use of nearby parks like Elm Park and Norwood Park. Or get creative and start purchasing or reining land. Why aren't we digging the parking lots behind the east side of Wisconsin Avenue and topping them with greenspace. MCPS could have partnered with the county to have more parking and more greenspace. Or they could have built a much larger middle school at Norwood, with racial balance, by simply changing some of the roads.

The lack of creativity in the site selection process was apalling.

Norwood Park was on the list of considered sites but was a problem in part due to the very limited access and also because of the historic landmark right smack in the middle of it. Elm Street Park is one square block - are you suggesting that is adequate for a middle school?

It was adequate for those who went to Leland so why isn't it ok now. Not everyone uses the fields so only the sports teams benefit. BCC is in walking distance. After school they can walk to BCC. Or, they could have bought up the nearby houses to make them fields. Why should Kensington have to deal with the traffic, noise and all the crap that comes along with a school and none of our kids are eligible to go. Maybe we don't want your kids in our neighborhoods any more than you don't want our "poor" kids in your neighborhood.

I think its funny as when I grew up, Chevy Chase was much more in the middle. Lots of gov't workers as the housing was affordable.

The neighborhood in Kensington that the new middle school is in is assigned to B-CC and the new middle school. I'm not sure why someone has to explain this on every single thread about the new middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At any moment in this process CCES (tweedledee) and NCC (tweedledum) from the Triad can step up and offer themselves to be bussed to Westland in place of RCF so you want be uncomfortable in the overcrowded/poor middle school. Go for it!

Wait, I thought the triad was Somerset, Westbrook, and Bethesda. Wouldn't NCC and CC just be a duo? In any case, that's a snappy response to avoid an issue you don't want to address, but the reality is that those schools have no ability to self-select, and you know that.

You keep pushing this narrative about a "poor" middle school. If that helps you get through side-stepping substantive issues, fine, but no one here is complaining about their kids going to school with so-called "poor" kids. The issue is one of physical capacity. The new school starts off at a deficit compared to Westland. According to the Superintendent's report, it hits 99% capacity within five years, before any development kicks in. That's a stupid result when the whole point of building the school was to relieve over-crowding.

CCES, NCC and RHPS = Triad

So, there are two triads, one in the east, and one in the west? Wasn't this a martial arts movie?

No you are late to the discussion it seems. CCES, NCC and RHPS have always been the Triad from many historical threads, not the other schools you mentioned.

Correct. No one calls Westbrook, Somerset and Bethesda the Triad.

And there have been a few mentions of the former Leland Junior High School in this thread, as a member of the second site selection committee I can tell you that it was considered but deemed way way way way too small for a middle school. Anyone who is at all familiar with the current Lawton Community Center should be able to attest to that. I don't think there would be room for a large enough building there, much less a field.

Funny, it worked fine for many years as a middle school. It was not way to small. The town doesn't want all the noise and buses in the community. I grew up there. I remember the old Leland very well. Kids could be bused or walk to BCC for the field. Or, they do without like many other schools do.

+1. Or change the use of nearby parks like Elm Park and Norwood Park. Or get creative and start purchasing or reining land. Why aren't we digging the parking lots behind the east side of Wisconsin Avenue and topping them with greenspace. MCPS could have partnered with the county to have more parking and more greenspace. Or they could have built a much larger middle school at Norwood, with racial balance, by simply changing some of the roads.

The lack of creativity in the site selection process was apalling.

Norwood Park was on the list of considered sites but was a problem in part due to the very limited access and also because of the historic landmark right smack in the middle of it. Elm Street Park is one square block - are you suggesting that is adequate for a middle school?

It was adequate for those who went to Leland so why isn't it ok now. Not everyone uses the fields so only the sports teams benefit. BCC is in walking distance. After school they can walk to BCC. Or, they could have bought up the nearby houses to make them fields. Why should Kensington have to deal with the traffic, noise and all the crap that comes along with a school and none of our kids are eligible to go. Maybe we don't want your kids in our neighborhoods any more than you don't want our "poor" kids in your neighborhood.

I think its funny as when I grew up, Chevy Chase was much more in the middle. Lots of gov't workers as the housing was affordable.

"Maybe we don't want your kids in our neighborhoods any more than you don't want our "poor" kids in your neighborhood." What a load of crap. This isn't about poor kids or rich kids (unless, of course, you're talking about the Westland neighborhoods near the District line). It's about equitable facilities. The two schools start out inequitable, and the Superintendent's recommendation makes them worse. Stop trying to guilt people. It doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It sounds like it's an issue of priorities. Some people place a higher priority on convenience, other people place a higher priority on the quality of education, and still others fall somewhere in between.

To be fair, though, the Superintendent did focus on the transportation issue, and that has been raised for some here. A PP said that people who don't like option 7 should offer to go to the school they want. If that were an option, I would stay at Westland, even with the long commute, based on the facilities. ?

It can always be proposed..

I would chose Westland as well. I actually live much closer to Westland than the new middle and it is far more convenient for my kids to go there, transportation wise. My older bikes all the way to Westland on the trail to and from school. Takes him 15 minutes. Convenient and healthy for him and for our family. My younger sons will not get to do the same thing under this new alignment. If the Super is going to base his decision on proximity, then let the CCES kids be able to bike to school on the trail. But we all know the Superintendent isn't worried about how my kids get to school, just the ones at RCF.

I think Chevy Chase areas nearer to Westland should get to go to Westland. Heck give everyone the option, school choice! Let people in CCES, NCC and RCF decide where they want to go. I guarantee not all the RCF parents see the new middle as the be all end all and are steamed at the new middle lines too. The ones who are smart see the larger facility, fields and under capacity as the huge bonuses they are. No one wants to be in an overcrowded school. I would drive miles to get away from an overcrowded school, knowing that a school with fewer kids is ultimately better for my kids. I don't want my kids at a school that is at capacity on the first day it opens.

Why would you say they only care about RCF kids. The decision could have easily gone the other way. Furthermore, CCES and NCC decided that for the purposes of this study they didn't want to split. The board and super took that into consideration. You guys. Ouldve supported a split.

We say they only care about RCF kids because they addressed that neighborhood's needs above all others. The result is that all the communities involved now will go to an overcrowded school so that RCF does not have to commute as they do now. And when we complain, we're told that we don't like mixing with poor kids or that the socio-economic demographics that required us to ship our kindergarteners out of our neighborhoods and split articulations really don't matter all that much. I don't believe that, but, for the sake of a shorter commute, some people are making socio-economic demographics look like a convenient argument when it suits their purposes.

But it does consider the needs of other schools beyond RCF! It takes into account proximity of the other elementary schools. It also doesn't split up (i.e. "tear apart") the Triad schools. And RCF didn't get everything it wanted...it advocated for its programs not being split up, but they are - immersion stays at Westland under this option. So really no one fully won, and no one fully lost in terms of what they were asking for.

[Anonymous]

This is all so crazy. Both schools are going to be great and successful and majority wealthy (and white). The vast majority of the county would love to go to either one. It's stunning that people think they're somehow burdened by having something like 15% poor kids. Grow up and see how fortunate you all are.

[Anonymous]

It seems t me that the should decide what kids are going to a school first then build the school that will accommodate them instead of build a school and then find out at the end that the surrounding schools don't fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading through this thread, why are people so ticked at RCF families? What do you expect them to do, advocate for something they don't want? If I lived there, and someone asked me what middle school I want my kids to go to, I'd say the closer one. Apparently a large portion of RCF wants to do that. I understand that many think that opinion is misguided, but it is what it is.

Are you expecting RCF families to advocate instead for something they think is not as good for their families? I mean, the other schools are advocating vehemently for their preferred option; why shouldn't RCF do the same? It doesn't make them any more selfish than everyone else.

Thanks, PP. RCF parent here. It seems like everyone is advocating for the option that works best for them personally, so I don't see attacking us as being unreasonable for doing so. Driving west across the county for school eventswould take me at least 30 minutes, and 10-20 mins extra ofdriving in traffic is a big deal to me - as it is to most of parents. If given the choice, I'd rather be at the closer school. Just being honest. I'm not horribly upset with the outcome and I'm not going to fight to have it changed either way - I think the superintendent's job to weigh the overall priorities and take into account all the schools' opinions. And he appears to have done so. We had always planned to go to Westland (as I presume we all did) so I'm not heartbroken however it turns out, but can you fault a community for advocating for what works best for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At any moment in this process CCES (tweedledee) and NCC (tweedledum) from the Triad can step up and offer themselves to be bussed to Westland in place of RCF so you want be uncomfortable in the overcrowded/poor middle school. Go for it!

Wait, I thought the triad was Somerset, Westbrook, and Bethesda. Wouldn't NCC and CC just be a duo? In any case, that's a snappy response to avoid an issue you don't want to address, but the reality is that those schools have no ability to self-select, and you know that.

You keep pushing this narrative about a "poor" middle school. If that helps you get through side-stepping substantive issues, fine, but no one here is complaining about their kids going to school with so-called "poor" kids. The issue is one of physical capacity. The new school starts off at a deficit compared to Westland. According to the Superintendent's report, it hits 99% capacity within five years, before any development kicks in. That's a stupid result when the whole point of building the school was to relieve over-crowding.

CCES, NCC and RHPS = Triad

So, there are two triads, one in the east, and one in the west? Wasn't this a martial arts movie?

No you are late to the discussion it seems. CCES, NCC and RHPS have always been the Triad from many historical threads, not the other schools you mentioned.

Correct. No one calls Westbrook, Somerset and Bethesda the Triad.

And there have been a few mentions of the former Leland Junior High School in this thread, as a member of the second site selection committee I can tell you that it was considered but deemed way way way way too small for a middle school. Anyone who is at all familiar with the current Lawton Community Center should be able to attest to that. I don't think there would be room for a large enough building there, much less a field.

Funny, it worked fine for many years as a middle school. It was not way to small. The town doesn't want all the noise and buses in the community. I grew up there. I remember the old Leland very well. Kids could be bused or walk to BCC for the field. Or, they do without like many other schools do.

+1. Or change the use of nearby parks like Elm Park and Norwood Park. Or get creative and start purchasing or reining land. Why aren't we digging the parking lots behind the east side of Wisconsin Avenue and topping them with greenspace. MCPS could have partnered with the county to have more parking and more greenspace. Or they could have built a much larger middle school at Norwood, with racial balance, by simply changing some of the roads.

The lack of creativity in the site selection process was apalling.

Norwood Park was on the list of considered sites but was a problem in part due to the very limited access and also because of the historic landmark right smack in the middle of it. Elm Street Park is one square block - are you suggesting that is adequate for a middle school?

It was adequate for those who went to Leland so why isn't it ok now. Not everyone uses the fields so only the sports teams benefit. BCC is in walking distance. After school they can walk to BCC. Or, they could have bought up the nearby houses to make them fields. Why should Kensington have to deal with the traffic, noise and all the crap that comes along with a school and none of our kids are eligible to go. Maybe we don't want your kids in our neighborhoods any more than you don't want our "poor" kids in your neighborhood.

I think its funny as when I grew up, Chevy Chase was much more in the middle. Lots of gov't workers as the housing was affordable.

"Maybe we don't want your kids in our neighborhoods any more than you don't want our "poor" kids in your neighborhood." What a load of crap. This isn't about poor kids or rich kids (unless, of course, you're talking about the Westland neighborhoods near the District line). It's about equitable facilities. The two schools start out inequitable, and the Superintendent's recommendation makes them worse. Stop trying to guilt people. It doesn't work.

Calm down. There will be a ton of FARMs kids coming from all the new construction in downtown Bethesda. 1/2 will go to Pyle, 1/2 to Westland and it will balance it out. The stats now are meaningless until all the MPDUs are filled and constructed in Westbard and downtown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy. Both schools are going to be great and successful and majority wealthy (and white). The vast majority of the county would love to go to either one. It's stunning that people think they're somehow burdened by having something like 15% poor kids. Grow up and see how fortunate you all are.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

I am an NCC parent who strongly supported Option 1, as did most of the parents I know. Fwiw, these include families like my own, who are mixed race/ethnicities and have personal experience with immigration.

However, if the Board votes for Option 7, let's be clear what that means: it means that the new superintendent and the Board do not believe kids should be bussed to support greater racial and socio-economic diversity. Okay. Then stop busing my kids to RHPS; let them go to their neighborhood school just like every other part of Bethesda.

Cause if it's okay to bus 5yos to achieve a desired social outcome, it ought to be okay to bus 12-14yos. Just don't make the families in CC and NCC the only ones who are expected to sacrifice convenience and a neighborhood school to achieve diversity.

+1

It has been a pain having kids in two separate schools, and as a working mom without a lot of time, I have to decide which event I will go to and often they are scheduled on the same day / time at different schools. Someone's feelings always get hurt. Two PTA's, two administrations and two different schools to manage which no other parent has to endure in MCPS. Dentist/doctor's appointments, two different pickups and dropoffs.

If it's all about proximity, send all the Silver Spring, RCF and NCC kids to the new middle school.

[Anonymous]

Calm down. There will be a ton of FARMs kids coming from all the new construction in downtown Bethesda. 1/2 will go to Pyle, 1/2 to Westland and it will balance it out. The stats now are meaningless until all the MPDUs are filled and constructed in Westbard and downtown.

A ton of FARMs kids coming from the new construction in downtown Bethesda?!!! Have you checked the rents in Bethesda lately? Condos start at the price of a SFH in Silver Spring. Doubt you'll get any FARMs kids from the new construction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy. Both schools are going to be great and successful and majority wealthy (and white). The vast majority of the county would love to go to either one. It's stunning that people think they're somehow burdened by having something like 15% poor kids. Grow up and see how fortunate you all are.

Exactly.

No, it's not about any purported burden of having 15% percent poor kids. It's about having two inequitable academic environments, and a new school that is overcrowded while Westland sits at 82% capacity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Calm down. There will be a ton of FARMs kids coming from all the new construction in downtown Bethesda. 1/2 will go to Pyle, 1/2 to Westland and it will balance it out. The stats now are meaningless until all the MPDUs are filled and constructed in Westbard and downtown.

A ton of FARMs kids coming from the new construction in downtown Bethesda?!!! Have you checked the rents in Bethesda lately? Condos start at the price of a SFH in Silver Spring. Doubt you'll get any FARMs kids from the new construction.

Lol, people are so out of touch with reality they don't even understand how low your income has to be to qualify for Farms. The average person well above Farms can't even get a 1 bedroom condo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Calm down. There will be a ton of FARMs kids coming from all the new construction in downtown Bethesda. 1/2 will go to Pyle, 1/2 to Westland and it will balance it out. The stats now are meaningless until all the MPDUs are filled and constructed in Westbard and downtown.

A ton of FARMs kids coming from the new construction in downtown Bethesda?!!! Have you checked the rents in Bethesda lately? Condos start at the price of a SFH in Silver Spring. Doubt you'll get any FARMs kids from the new construction.

Lol, people are so out of touch with reality they don't even understand how low your income has to be to qualify for Farms. The average person well above Farms can't even get a 1 bedroom condo.

Again, this is irrelevant. The point is that option 7 creates an overcrowded school in the east and an underutilized school in the west. The school in the east cannot provide an equitable education, and it will not be able to address planned growth.

[Anonymous]

All bickering aside, this is a very thorough, nuanced discussion of a very complex issue. I wish this kind of sit-down could be held with the new superintendent and MCPS staff. One of the biggest frustrations in this process is that it seems like the people making the decisions don't communicate with the people who are effected by them. The new middle school is a flawed size, in a flawed location for the BCC cluster. The central point is not to compound initial bad decisions with more bad decisions trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
I hope everyone here will also make as much noise advocating to make BCC better.