Truck kills 30 in France

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And what's your short game? I have zero issue with energy independence ans getting out of bed with the Saudis . I have less of an issue with Egypt - the Muslim brotherhood is another headache. But what's your plan for the next twenty years while all of that is underway?

I already suggested on short term effort: try to drive a wedge between the terrorists and other Muslims. Clearly recognize that most Muslims are valued neighbors and that the terrorists, regardless of how they describe themselves, are not representative of Islam. Try to demonstrate that the US is a land of opportunity for Muslims who are welcome to pursue the American dream. Also, since refugees are a concern, rethink our policies that are helping to create refugees.

A) you have repeatedly stated this has nothing to do with Islam so why would the terrorist care if they are told their actions are not representative? Just curious. Or would you have the Muslim community actually tackle this from a young age in some proactive way to teach the kids values that would supercede these nihilistic power mad ones?

b) the US is historically and currently welcoming. Many Muslims have made great lives and communities here. Heard of Deerborne? Seen the mosque on Mass Ave? The only Muslims I worry about are the Somalis etc refugees being relocated to work in chicken factories and do jobs no one wants to. If thats our refugee support program, we aren't doing anyone a favor. Bound to be resentment.

C) there is the largest movement of refugees on the planet. Many are economic. Rethink our policies on most of Africa? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Quite a scope. How about invite them to stay near where they are from and offer support as they work towards the change they want?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And what's your short game? I have zero issue with energy independence ans getting out of bed with the Saudis . I have less of an issue with Egypt - the Muslim brotherhood is another headache. But what's your plan for the next twenty years while all of that is underway?

The Christian world had their Crusades back then. Now the Muslim world is having theirs. The West cannot fix it or stop it.

The crusades were a war against Muslim conquering/war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These people are fucking psychotic sociopaths-and if you vote for Hillary we will see much more of this. So we will have terror attacks from Isis and the Black Lives Matter police killings and violence. America is becoming a cesspool. At least Trumps wall won't be up so perhaps we can all escape to Mexico.

It's great when those with intellectual disabilities get to express their opinions.

Not PP but fuck you. I don't care which side of the debate you're on. I have family who have mental disabilities. Don't exploit people with disabilities for a little cutesy put down.

Intellectual disability is not the same as mental disability.

No one wants to hear your weak attempt at differentiating the two. Just STFU.

+1. PP was wrong to use that putdown and is now trying to justify it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These people are fucking psychotic sociopaths-and if you vote for Hillary we will see much more of this. So we will have terror attacks from Isis and the Black Lives Matter police killings and violence. America is becoming a cesspool. At least Trumps wall won't be up so perhaps we can all escape to Mexico.

It's great when those with intellectual disabilities get to express their opinions.

Not PP but fuck you. I don't care which side of the debate you're on. I have family who have mental disabilities. Don't exploit people with disabilities for a little cutesy put down.

It's called mental illness or psychological disability. So I call bullshit on your faux outrage. And you should think about looking up the meaning of "exploit."

Intellectual disability is another way of saying mental retardation. Use Google. You were wrong to use that as an attempt at a putdown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could the Western countries slow it by more-deeply screening those who are accepted within their borders?

Most of the attacks are coming from people born in the country. There is no opportunity to screen them at the borders.

There is one common component, the religon.

True.

Eventually, our country and Europe will emerge from our denial phase. It's like a phase of grief. What comes after denial I will have to google. . .

Please remember that this attack was done by one person, as far as we know. How many Muslims live in France? Millions? All of them but one went about their day peacefully.

There have been innumerable recent attacks with islam as the motive. Next mass murder, 99% chance islamic. It just is a fact. Sure, most muslims are peaceful, normal, nice people, but that doesn't undo or change Nice or Paris or any of the attacks. They are happening anyway.

The attack has everything to do with religion. If you don't believe me, just ask the terrorists. They keep telling us it is in the name of Islam.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that Bangladesh, Egypt and even Afghanistan may want an outlet for the opposition at the table, but the Muslim Brotherhood were not taking Egypt in a great direction as far as I can tell. In that part of the world, with its weak weak institutions, might still makes right and the brotherhood rolled the dice and lost. Could Egypt be less heavy handed? Would the Brotherhood treat their vanquished the same way were roles reversed?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/03/world/africa/egypt-muslim-brotherhood-explainer/index.html

You can't claim to support democracy and then support coups when democracy doesn't go your way. When we profess values to which we don't adhere, we can't expect others to believe those are really our values.

Don't worry - I'm over supporting democracy just for the sake of. Hitler came to power in a democracy. People actually need to have the right conditions for democracy to actually function the way we understand it. I am OK with countries having the better of two bad alternatives as they sort their way to something better. Venezuela is a 'democracy' and the people are starving.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
A) you have repeatedly stated this has nothing to do with Islam so why would the terrorist care if they are told their actions are not representative? Just curious. Or would you have the Muslim community actually tackle this from a young age in some proactive way to teach the kids values that would supercede these nihilistic power mad ones?

I am pretty sure that I never said this has nothing to do with Islam, let along repeatedly said it. My point is that when all Muslims are condemned for the actions of terrorists who describe themselves as Muslims, it increases alienation which leads to more individuals be susceptible to the terrorists' message. I would support US society at large doing more to decrease alienation of Muslims and Muslims working internally to prevent radicalization. I support both.

Anonymous wrote:
b) the US is historically and currently welcoming. Many Muslims have made great lives and communities here. Heard of Deerborne? Seen the mosque on Mass Ave? The only Muslims I worry about are the Somalis etc refugees being relocated to work in chicken factories and do jobs no one wants to. If thats our refugee support program, we aren't doing anyone a favor. Bound to be resentment.

Can't say I disagree with any of this. I would just point out that tonight alone many US politicians have made very anti-Muslims statements. Congressman Peter King has proposed surveilling Muslim communities in the US, Newt Gingrich has proposed deporting any Muslims who supports Shariah, etc. These are not welcoming positions.

Anonymous wrote:
C) there is the largest movement of refugees on the planet. Many are economic. Rethink our policies on most of Africa? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Quite a scope. How about invite them to stay near where they are from and offer support as they work towards the change they want?

The refugees that concern many Americans (not me) come from war torn areas. Yes, our policies that contribute to the refugee problem have a very large scope. We can face up to that or simply ignore the problem and hope it goes away. You can invite people to stay in a place where they will likely be bombed, but they probably won't cooperate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could the Western countries slow it by more-deeply screening those who are accepted within their borders?

Most of the attacks are coming from people born in the country. There is no opportunity to screen them at the borders.

There is one common component, the religon.

True.

Eventually, our country and Europe will emerge from our denial phase. It's like a phase of grief. What comes after denial I will have to google. . .

Please remember that this attack was done by one person, as far as we know. How many Muslims live in France? Millions? All of them but one went about their day peacefully.

There have been innumerable recent attacks with islam as the motive. Next mass murder, 99% chance islamic. It just is a fact. Sure, most muslims are peaceful, normal, nice people, but that doesn't undo or change Nice or Paris or any of the attacks. They are happening anyway.

The attack has everything to do with religion. If you don't believe me, just ask the terrorists. They keep telling us it is in the name of Islam.

it has everything to do with a religion that teaches intolerance. That teaches that the infidels are not even human. You have to think of your neighbors as animals to be able to kill them like this.

Until we recognize and deal with the influences that are corrupting our youth we will never win this war.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
it has everything to do with a religion that teaches intolerance. That teaches that the infidels are not even human. You have to think of your neighbors as animals to be able to kill them like this.

Until we recognize and deal with the influences that are corrupting our youth we will never win this war.

The entire religion doesn't teach those things. To the extent that you lump all Muslims in with those who believe such things, you are contributing to the terrorists' cause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These people are fucking psychotic sociopaths-and if you vote for Hillary we will see much more of this. So we will have terror attacks from Isis and the Black Lives Matter police killings and violence. America is becoming a cesspool. At least Trumps wall won't be up so perhaps we can all escape to Mexico.

It's great when those with intellectual disabilities get to express their opinions.

Not PP but fuck you. I don't care which side of the debate you're on. I have family who have mental disabilities. Don't exploit people with disabilities for a little cutesy put down.

It's called mental illness or psychological disability. So I call bullshit on your faux outrage. And you should think about looking up the meaning of "exploit."

Intellectual disability is another way of saying mental retardation. Use Google. You were wrong to use that as an attempt at a putdown.

Thank you, PP. I'm not outraged. I just think the person making jokes about the mentally disabled is acting like a bad person.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
it has everything to do with a religion that teaches intolerance. That teaches that the infidels are not even human. You have to think of your neighbors as animals to be able to kill them like this.

Until we recognize and deal with the influences that are corrupting our youth we will never win this war.

The entire religion doesn't teach those things. To the extent that you lump all Muslims in with those who believe such things, you are contributing to the terrorists' cause.

of course not, that would be stupid.

but it does not mean you can't use intelligent assessments to analyze the risk and start responding appropriately.

to just simply say that Islam plays no role in this is just as stupid.

[jsteele]

Here is some pure speculation on my part. I've noticed that in several recent attacks, the perpetrators were fairly important members of the terrorist cells. I believe one of the Brussels bombers was described as an important bomb maker and one of the Istanbul attackers was a high-level recruiter. I could be mistake because I'm going by memory and I haven't memorized all the details of these attacks, but I think this is correct. The truck today is said to contain bomb-making material and weapons. Maybe that was a sort of headquarters/weapons cache and, instead of using an apartment, the cell was working out of a truck? In that scenario, the bomb-making material and weapons were not intended to be used in today's attack. Rather, for whatever reason, the attacker decided it was no longer useful to maintain the weapons cache.

If I am correct about all of this -- and I admit I am likely wrong -- it would mean that ISIS is running out of cannon fodder and is being forced to rely on more valuable assets for attacks. If that is the case, I suspect the organization has almost depleted its resources. You don't have your bomb-maker blow himself up if you are hoping for him to make more bombs. Similarly, you don't destroy your weapons cache unless that cache is no longer needed.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
it has everything to do with a religion that teaches intolerance. That teaches that the infidels are not even human. You have to think of your neighbors as animals to be able to kill them like this.

Until we recognize and deal with the influences that are corrupting our youth we will never win this war.

The entire religion doesn't teach those things. To the extent that you lump all Muslims in with those who believe such things, you are contributing to the terrorists' cause.

Unfortunately, a large enough percentage of them do believe this. And the ones that don't believe this are too afraid to challenge them. A surprisingly large percentage of muslims in the US support sharia law.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
A) you have repeatedly stated this has nothing to do with Islam so why would the terrorist care if they are told their actions are not representative? Just curious. Or would you have the Muslim community actually tackle this from a young age in some proactive way to teach the kids values that would supercede these nihilistic power mad ones?

I am pretty sure that I never said this has nothing to do with Islam, let along repeatedly said it. My point is that when all Muslims are condemned for the actions of terrorists who describe themselves as Muslims, it increases alienation which leads to more individuals be susceptible to the terrorists' message. I would support US society at large doing more to decrease alienation of Muslims and Muslims working internally to prevent radicalization. I support both.

Anonymous wrote:
b) the US is historically and currently welcoming. Many Muslims have made great lives and communities here. Heard of Deerborne? Seen the mosque on Mass Ave? The only Muslims I worry about are the Somalis etc refugees being relocated to work in chicken factories and do jobs no one wants to. If thats our refugee support program, we aren't doing anyone a favor. Bound to be resentment.

Can't say I disagree with any of this. I would just point out that tonight alone many US politicians have made very anti-Muslims statements. Congressman Peter King has proposed surveilling Muslim communities in the US, Newt Gingrich has proposed deporting any Muslims who supports Shariah, etc. These are not welcoming positions.

Anonymous wrote:
C) there is the largest movement of refugees on the planet. Many are economic. Rethink our policies on most of Africa? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Quite a scope. How about invite them to stay near where they are from and offer support as they work towards the change they want?

The refugees that concern many Americans (not me) come from war torn areas. Yes, our policies that contribute to the refugee problem have a very large scope. We can face up to that or simply ignore the problem and hope it goes away. You can invite people to stay in a place where they will likely be bombed, but they probably won't cooperate.

These are very few statements and they seem to be focused on security tactics, not group bias. Is surveillance actually anti Muslim or is it a long running debate in law enforcement about profiling that the pendulum swings back and forth? Is deporting people who support shariah law anti Muslim? I am assuming that's shariah law over civil law? I'm not sure how thats anti Muslim as I'm guessing most American Muslims understand they live in a secular society where civil law prevails.

Wth regard to refugees, I actually think the Syrians are the easiest to help: Its called no fly zones and very nice encampments like my mom lived in the first five years of her life in Germany, grateful to America to this day for building them. The economic/lifestyles immigrants and refugees - Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Tunisia, Morocco , Iraq think its deeply unfair that Syrians are 'favored' and are heading west for something, possibly disillusionment.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
it has everything to do with a religion that teaches intolerance. That teaches that the infidels are not even human. You have to think of your neighbors as animals to be able to kill them like this.

Until we recognize and deal with the influences that are corrupting our youth we will never win this war.

The entire religion doesn't teach those things. To the extent that you lump all Muslims in with those who believe such things, you are contributing to the terrorists' cause.

Unfortunately, a large enough percentage of them do believe this. And the ones that don't believe this are too afraid to challenge them. A surprisingly large percentage of muslims in the US support sharia law.

There is no one agreed upon "sharia law" so when you ask someone if they support "sharia law" you have no idea what they are supporting. Moreover, most countries that claim to implement sharia law only do it for personal status issues.