New Budget Recommendations -- eliminate AAP busing and centers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So really AAP is just better because it has more strict curriculum guidelines, materials, and training and GE would be better if it had more strict curriculum guidelines, materials, and training? I agree with this, but am curious if others do as well.

AAP is better for some kids, not for all kids.

Correcting this for you- the faster PACE is better for some kids not all kids.

The curriculum is better for all kids.

If you look at the FCPS website, they will tell you that the curriculum is the same for AAP and Gen Ed. They also take the same SOLs, except for Math in 5th grade.

It absolutely is not.

Here are examples for 5th grade AAP vs Gen Ed.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/elemprogreport/documents/aap/Grade5Parents.pdf

and here is actual standard curricula used-

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/famework/Grade5.pdf

William and Mary Units, Ceaser's English, etc are standard across AAP classrooms. You will find no such similar instruction as standard in Gen Ed classrooms.

Our child's GE classroom uses both W&M language arts workbooks and Caesar's English word study. So obviously it varies from school to school. Which begs the question - why not just use these tools across all classes and stop calling it "AAP" or "GE"?

+1000
It makes no sense at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So really AAP is just better because it has more strict curriculum guidelines, materials, and training and GE would be better if it had more strict curriculum guidelines, materials, and training? I agree with this, but am curious if others do as well.

AAP is better for some kids, not for all kids.

Correcting this for you- the faster PACE is better for some kids not all kids.

The curriculum is better for all kids.

If you look at the FCPS website, they will tell you that the curriculum is the same for AAP and Gen Ed. They also take the same SOLs, except for Math in 5th grade.

It absolutely is not.

Here are examples for 5th grade AAP vs Gen Ed.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/elemprogreport/documents/aap/Grade5Parents.pdf

and here is actual standard curricula used-

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/famework/Grade5.pdf

William and Mary Units, Ceaser's English, etc are standard across AAP classrooms. You will find no such similar instruction as standard in Gen Ed classrooms.

Our child's GE classroom uses both W&M language arts workbooks and Caesar's English word study. So obviously it varies from school to school. Which begs the question - why not just use these tools across all classes and stop calling it "AAP" or "GE"?

+1000
It makes no sense at all.

Because curriculum and instruction are different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:21:24-- perhaps instead of harping about things you can't control such as the AAP program, why don't you take a more proactive approach in meeting the needs of your gifted and bored child by seeking other opportunities for enrichment outside of school. The public school system cannot serve you with 100% of your wants.

If AAP hadn't been watered down, a true G/T program could be targeted toward those who truly are gifted.

Or so we're trolled and told again and again. Those seeking a smaller program, for whatever reason, need to work on new material. This can't work as the go-to response to every comment forever.

We do seek outside support for our DC. But, the statement above is true and will continue to be true whether or not you like to hear it. A psychologist that has worked in FFX County for years, made the same statement to me recently - the program used for kids like your DD but now it's doesn't, which is sad.

No idea whether it's true and couldn't care less. It's a blind-alley opinion that serves no purpose other than to make the speaker feel superior/look dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. Putting these kids into a program that IMO should be for GT kids is absurd. The vast majority of the AAP kids are holding my kid back academically. My kid, along with 2 other AAP kids, are doing a ton of extra work on their own and together because they are bored. They complain how slow the math is moving and how basic the science is. They need to revert this back to an actual gifted program and send most of the kids back to the GE program, where they can appropriately differentiate and provide them with the current AAP curriculum.

And I hope you are happy having your child go to the one "TJ" elementary in the county to accomplish this, because this is really what you're asking for. A TJ for elementary school. Stop complaining about what's not working and be specific with what is reasonable as a change if you really want it to happen. If 90% or the vast majority of the kids in AAP aren't at your child's level, it's probably the same for every other AAP. Therefore in order to align the top 10% of AAP students, one or two centrally located schools will be required. That is the trade off. Instead of going to school with kids who eventually will filter into your child's high school, your child will have to go to school with kids from all over the county, never attending a school with kids who live nearby. And your child will be cloistered with other GT students their entire life never understanding the lives of the other 90% of students who they will be interacting for the rest of their lives with.

NP. I would be fine with having several centers around the county. I'd be fine with my child being with his peers but not in class with neighbors because we can interact with the neighbors through other activities.

The scenario was just one elementary center in the whole county-would you be fine with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. Putting these kids into a program that IMO should be for GT kids is absurd. The vast majority of the AAP kids are holding my kid back academically. My kid, along with 2 other AAP kids, are doing a ton of extra work on their own and together because they are bored. They complain how slow the math is moving and how basic the science is. They need to revert this back to an actual gifted program and send most of the kids back to the GE program, where they can appropriately differentiate and provide them with the current AAP curriculum.

And I hope you are happy having your child go to the one "TJ" elementary in the county to accomplish this, because this is really what you're asking for. A TJ for elementary school. Stop complaining about what's not working and be specific with what is reasonable as a change if you really want it to happen. If 90% or the vast majority of the kids in AAP aren't at your child's level, it's probably the same for every other AAP. Therefore in order to align the top 10% of AAP students, one or two centrally located schools will be required. That is the trade off. Instead of going to school with kids who eventually will filter into your child's high school, your child will have to go to school with kids from all over the county, never attending a school with kids who live nearby. And your child will be cloistered with other GT students their entire life never understanding the lives of the other 90% of students who they will be interacting for the rest of their lives with.

NP. I would be fine with having several centers around the county. I'd be fine with my child being with his peers but not in class with neighbors because we can interact with the neighbors through other activities.

The scenario was just one elementary center in the whole county-would you be fine with that?

I think there may be more children in the county than one center could accommodate, but to be very honest with you, it depends on where it's located. If it's centrally located than maybe that's more fair than if it's in Reston, you know what I mean? I wouldn't wan tt long commute for myself but if that's where the job is, I'll drive. Same thing here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. Putting these kids into a program that IMO should be for GT kids is absurd. The vast majority of the AAP kids are holding my kid back academically. My kid, along with 2 other AAP kids, are doing a ton of extra work on their own and together because they are bored. They complain how slow the math is moving and how basic the science is. They need to revert this back to an actual gifted program and send most of the kids back to the GE program, where they can appropriately differentiate and provide them with the current AAP curriculum.

And I hope you are happy having your child go to the one "TJ" elementary in the county to accomplish this, because this is really what you're asking for. A TJ for elementary school. Stop complaining about what's not working and be specific with what is reasonable as a change if you really want it to happen. If 90% or the vast majority of the kids in AAP aren't at your child's level, it's probably the same for every other AAP. Therefore in order to align the top 10% of AAP students, one or two centrally located schools will be required. That is the trade off. Instead of going to school with kids who eventually will filter into your child's high school, your child will have to go to school with kids from all over the county, never attending a school with kids who live nearby. And your child will be cloistered with other GT students their entire life never understanding the lives of the other 90% of students who they will be interacting for the rest of their lives with.

NP. I would be fine with having several centers around the county. I'd be fine with my child being with his peers but not in class with neighbors because we can interact with the neighbors through other activities.

The scenario was just one elementary center in the whole county-would you be fine with that?

YES! Because my kid would actually get academic instruction that meets her at her abilities.

[Anonymous]

You would put your kid on a bus for 3 hours a day to commute to the one center? That's nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You would put your kid on a bus for 3 hours a day to commute to the one center? That's nuts.

Helicopter Mom doesn't need a bus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You would put your kid on a bus for 3 hours a day to commute to the one center? That's nuts.

Helicopter Mom doesn't need a bus.

I wouldn't put my kid on a bus for 3 hours. I would either work out a carpool with other kids on the commute path. We have a parent that doesn't into work into late in the morning and I can get off early enough to beat traffic.

This proves the point that you, and most people, don't have kids that really need a special ed program on the high end. For those of us who do, we would make the sacrifice for our DC to get the services they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You would put your kid on a bus for 3 hours a day to commute to the one center? That's nuts.

Helicopter Mom doesn't need a bus.

I wouldn't put my kid on a bus for 3 hours. I would either work out a carpool with other kids on the commute path. We have a parent that doesn't into work into late in the morning and I can get off early enough to beat traffic.

This proves the point that you, and most people, don't have kids that really need a special ed program on the high end. For those of us who do, we would make the sacrifice for our DC to get the services they need.

+1. I'm the pp who said they prefer a shorter commute, but that's normal in the DC area. But if there were only one school and my child was able to attend it, then we'd figure out a way to make it work.

[Anonymous]

In the early 2000s, there was more than one center and about 9-10% of the kids in each grade were in the program. Those were good numbers and the program worked well at that time. People saw that certain kids needed the program and weren't trying to get in kids who were fine in the regular program.

[Anonymous]

You would put your kid on a bus for 3 hours a day to commute to the one center? That's nuts.
Helicopter Mom doesn't need a bus.
I wouldn't put my kid on a bus for 3 hours. I would either work out a carpool with other kids on the commute path. We have a parent that doesn't into work into late in the morning and I can get off early enough to beat traffic.

This proves the point that you, and most people, don't have kids that really need a special ed program on the high end. For those of us who do, we would make the sacrifice for our DC to get the services they need.

Sounds about right. Whether a child needs a "special ed program on the high end" has less to do with the child and more to do with how tenacious and obsessed their parents are to have the government recognize their kids as even more special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the early 2000s, there was more than one center and about 9-10% of the kids in each grade were in the program. Those were good numbers and the program worked well at that time. People saw that certain kids needed the program and weren't trying to get in kids who were fine in the regular program.

I think they also saw that kids who were in gen ed needed more and therefore more were allowed into AAP. Everyone won't be completely happy.... no matter what the solution is. If we push more AAP curriculum into the gen ed (which I would like to see), there will be people unhappy b/c it's too hard for their child OR they now feel like their kid is in the dummy group b/c he isn't doing the AAP classes.

Ultimately, we have to remember that this is public education and the district has to serve the most kids it can with the money it has. Unless taxes are much, much higher, it will never be a system that reaches each child at exactly the right level. For some it will be too little and for others, it will be too much. It's not perfect, it's public.

I am torn about the centers b/c I have one child at a center and one in gen. ed. The kid at the center is definitely getting a better education. The one in gen ed. SHOULD be getting that same (or similar) education.... wish we had parent referred as she was close, but not automatically in pool and we assumed the base school was perfectly fine. Only after sending her through it and comparing to our child at the center do we see the deficiencies... and now it is too late for the gen ed kid to get into the AAP track.

My hesitance in breaking up the centers is that I do not believe that will solve the problem. I do not trust the base school to adhere to the standards that the center uses. I do not think the base school has the motivation to raise standards or implement an AAP curriculum. So, getting rid of centers would simply be getting rid of what works and replacing it with something that isn't as good. That's a step in the wrong direction. So, for now, I support keeping the center that is doing a great job. I would also like to see the kids in gen ed get a better education --- and it sounds like some of you already have that at your base school. You should be really grateful that your kids have that level of education without even being in AAP.... not everyone has that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the early 2000s, there was more than one center and about 9-10% of the kids in each grade were in the program. Those were good numbers and the program worked well at that time. People saw that certain kids needed the program and weren't trying to get in kids who were fine in the regular program.

I think they also saw that kids who were in gen ed needed more and therefore more were allowed into AAP. Everyone won't be completely happy.... no matter what the solution is. If we push more AAP curriculum into the gen ed (which I would like to see), there will be people unhappy b/c it's too hard for their child OR they now feel like their kid is in the dummy group b/c he isn't doing the AAP classes.

Ultimately, we have to remember that this is public education and the district has to serve the most kids it can with the money it has. Unless taxes are much, much higher, it will never be a system that reaches each child at exactly the right level. For some it will be too little and for others, it will be too much. It's not perfect, it's public.

I am torn about the centers b/c I have one child at a center and one in gen. ed. The kid at the center is definitely getting a better education. The one in gen ed. SHOULD be getting that same (or similar) education.... wish we had parent referred as she was close, but not automatically in pool and we assumed the base school was perfectly fine. Only after sending her through it and comparing to our child at the center do we see the deficiencies... and now it is too late for the gen ed kid to get into the AAP track.

My hesitance in breaking up the centers is that I do not believe that will solve the problem. I do not trust the base school to adhere to the standards that the center uses. I do not think the base school has the motivation to raise standards or implement an AAP curriculum. So, getting rid of centers would simply be getting rid of what works and replacing it with something that isn't as good. That's a step in the wrong direction. So, for now, I support keeping the center that is doing a great job. I would also like to see the kids in gen ed get a better education --- and it sounds like some of you already have that at your base school. You should be really grateful that your kids have that level of education without even being in AAP.... not everyone has that.

Nicely put and a good reminder that challenges and priorities FCPS must deal with go well beyond some complaining parent's belief that "The vast majority of the AAP kids are holding my kid back academically".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You would put your kid on a bus for 3 hours a day to commute to the one center? That's nuts.

Helicopter Mom doesn't need a bus.

I wouldn't put my kid on a bus for 3 hours. I would either work out a carpool with other kids on the commute path. We have a parent that doesn't into work into late in the morning and I can get off early enough to beat traffic.

This proves the point that you, and most people, don't have kids that really need a special ed program on the high end. For those of us who do, we would make the sacrifice for our DC to get the services they need.

AAP is NOT a special ed program. At all.