New Budget Recommendations -- eliminate AAP busing and centers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So really AAP is just better because it has more strict curriculum guidelines, materials, and training and GE would be better if it had more strict curriculum guidelines, materials, and training? I agree with this, but am curious if others do as well.

AAP is better for some kids, not for all kids.

Correcting this for you- the faster PACE is better for some kids not all kids.

The curriculum is better for all kids.

If you look at the FCPS website, they will tell you that the curriculum is the same for AAP and Gen Ed. They also take the same SOLs, except for Math in 5th grade.

It absolutely is not.

Here are examples for 5th grade AAP vs Gen Ed.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/elemprogreport/documents/aap/Grade5Parents.pdf

and here is actual standard curricula used-

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/famework/Grade5.pdf

William and Mary Units, Ceaser's English, etc are standard across AAP classrooms. You will find no such similar instruction as standard in Gen Ed classrooms.

We are at a high achieving center ES. I am really confused about whether there is any meaningful distinction between AAP and GE. On one hand, the teachers and administrators kept telling parents that our school is good, all kids received AAP materials, so don't worry about getting your kids into AAP, because it does not matter for this school. On the other hands, they also said that AAP math is one year ahead of GE math. So clearly AAP and GE are not the same, then why lie to the parents?

Because then everyone would know that their child is not getting as good of an education and there would be a lot of angry parents.

It's very convenient for them to pacify the masses by saying it's pretty much the same. If it were the same AAP parents would not be putting up such a big fight to keep it exclusive.

I

So true. And we all know, if the roles were reversed and the GE kids were getting something better than the AAP kids, and the AAP kids weren't allowed to access it, there would be a huge outcry. But the current situation is just fine with them. So hypocritical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Non AAP kids have the option to take compacted math, which is the equivalent of AAP level math IF THEY QUALIFY.

What I don't get is all of this crowing about how unfair AAP is to GE students-ALL 2nd graders in FCPS are screened and there is a process to this-if you QUALIFY then you receive the same AAP education as everyone else who qualifies and if you don't qualify you are placed in GE. The classes are differentiated from then on within their own cohort. AAP is simply a larger group differentiation point to begin from from the students who proved they can test well and are identified by the teachers as being suitable for the program.

You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

Putting the kids into these two separate categories is so damaging for those in GE. I've heard my child and others say they must be "stupid" since they're not in AAP, when the reality is so, so different. Labeling them like this has serious repercussions in the way children see themselves. It's so unnecessary when all they need to do is give equal access to all the classes. Those who thrive there will thrive, and those who don't will see they need to go back a level.

[Anonymous]

You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

Putting the kids into these two separate categories is so damaging for those in GE. I've heard my child and others say they must be "stupid" since they're not in AAP, when the reality is so, so different. Labeling them like this has serious repercussions in the way children see themselves. It's so unnecessary when all they need to do is give equal access to all the classes. Those who thrive there will thrive, and those who don't will see they need to go back a level.

This already exists. Kids who miss the initial AAP draft can try again. If they make it in and don't like it they can "go back a level". However, the general admission scheme you propose would wreak absolute havoc on elementary schools. Besides, kids can seek out honors courses starting in middle school anyway. Will these same kids feel bad about themselves then if they don't take the hardest classes? I hope not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Non AAP kids have the option to take compacted math, which is the equivalent of AAP level math IF THEY QUALIFY.

What I don't get is all of this crowing about how unfair AAP is to GE students-ALL 2nd graders in FCPS are screened and there is a process to this-if you QUALIFY then you receive the same AAP education as everyone else who qualifies and if you don't qualify you are placed in GE. The classes are differentiated from then on within their own cohort. AAP is simply a larger group differentiation point to begin from from the students who proved they can test well and are identified by the teachers as being suitable for the program.

You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

Putting the kids into these two separate categories is so damaging for those in GE. I've heard my child and others say they must be "stupid" since they're not in AAP, when the reality is so, so different. Labeling them like this has serious repercussions in the way children see themselves. It's so unnecessary when all they need to do is give equal access to all the classes. Those who thrive there will thrive, and those who don't will see they need to go back a level.

Agree. I have two children who did not qualify for Level IV and were then placed into our Local Level IV classroom in 3rd grade by the principal and teacher recommendation. At the end of fourth grade, I referred them and both of them were accepted. Both did very well in the program; there was no struggling or any sense ever of questioning whether they could keep up since they weren't "technically" supposed to be there. They went onto the center for Level IV for middle school and excelled. (One is in 8th now, the other in 9th).

I will also add that in the elementary school level, there was a definite separation between the GE and the AAP kids. Some of it was that there were a few rotten apples who would brag about AAP and how hard it was, better it was, how lucky they were to get to do this or that, etc. etc. And some of it was Gen Ed kids feeling they must be "stupid" all on their own without hearing kids like that because it bothered them so much.

Once my oldest went to HS, there was also a big "oh you're one of those smart center kids" from the kids who went to the base middle school. He has assimilated socially nonetheless, but it's more about how it makes the Gen Ed kids feel "less than" that, like the PP said, is unnecessary and damaging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So really AAP is just better because it has more strict curriculum guidelines, materials, and training and GE would be better if it had more strict curriculum guidelines, materials, and training? I agree with this, but am curious if others do as well.

AAP is better for some kids, not for all kids.

Correcting this for you- the faster PACE is better for some kids not all kids.

The curriculum is better for all kids.

If you look at the FCPS website, they will tell you that the curriculum is the same for AAP and Gen Ed. They also take the same SOLs, except for Math in 5th grade.

It absolutely is not.

Here are examples for 5th grade AAP vs Gen Ed.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/elemprogreport/documents/aap/Grade5Parents.pdf

and here is actual standard curricula used-

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/famework/Grade5.pdf

William and Mary Units, Ceaser's English, etc are standard across AAP classrooms. You will find no such similar instruction as standard in Gen Ed classrooms.

We are at a high achieving center ES. I am really confused about whether there is any meaningful distinction between AAP and GE. On one hand, the teachers and administrators kept telling parents that our school is good, all kids received AAP materials, so don't worry about getting your kids into AAP, because it does not matter for this school. On the other hands, they also said that AAP math is one year ahead of GE math. So clearly AAP and GE are not the same, then why lie to the parents?

Because then everyone would know that their child is not getting as good of an education and there would be a lot of angry parents.

It's very convenient for them to pacify the masses by saying it's pretty much the same. If it were the same AAP parents would not be putting up such a big fight to keep it exclusive.

I

So true. And we all know, if the roles were reversed and the GE kids were getting something better than the AAP kids, and the AAP kids weren't allowed to access it, there would be a huge outcry. But the current situation is just fine with them. So hypocritical.

So you understand that I'm not the resson your child didn't qualify for AAP, but you're mad at me because I'm the reason your child isn't in AAP level classes even though he or she didn't qualify.

-AAP parent

[Anonymous]

^to add, did you parent refer? More than once?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Non AAP kids have the option to take compacted math, which is the equivalent of AAP level math IF THEY QUALIFY.

What I don't get is all of this crowing about how unfair AAP is to GE students-ALL 2nd graders in FCPS are screened and there is a process to this-if you QUALIFY then you receive the same AAP education as everyone else who qualifies and if you don't qualify you are placed in GE. The classes are differentiated from then on within their own cohort. AAP is simply a larger group differentiation point to begin from from the students who proved they can test well and are identified by the teachers as being suitable for the program.

You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

Putting the kids into these two separate categories is so damaging for those in GE. I've heard my child and others say they must be "stupid" since they're not in AAP, when the reality is so, so different. Labeling them like this has serious repercussions in the way children see themselves. It's so unnecessary when all they need to do is give equal access to all the classes. Those who thrive there will thrive, and those who don't will see they need to go back a level.

Your kids aren't in AAP and your on AAP bulletin boards in your free time? You seem like the kind of person who is so obessesed with righting some AAP wrong that YOU are the one making your kids feel bad-- not the other students at the ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Non AAP kids have the option to take compacted math, which is the equivalent of AAP level math IF THEY QUALIFY.

What I don't get is all of this crowing about how unfair AAP is to GE students-ALL 2nd graders in FCPS are screened and there is a process to this-if you QUALIFY then you receive the same AAP education as everyone else who qualifies and if you don't qualify you are placed in GE. The classes are differentiated from then on within their own cohort. AAP is simply a larger group differentiation point to begin from from the students who proved they can test well and are identified by the teachers as being suitable for the program.

You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

Putting the kids into these two separate categories is so damaging for those in GE. I've heard my child and others say they must be "stupid" since they're not in AAP, when the reality is so, so different. Labeling them like this has serious repercussions in the way children see themselves. It's so unnecessary when all they need to do is give equal access to all the classes. Those who thrive there will thrive, and those who don't will see they need to go back a level.

I agree. Putting these kids into a program that IMO should be for GT kids is absurd. The vast majority of the AAP kids are holding my kid back academically. My kid, along with 2 other AAP kids, are doing a ton of extra work on their own and together because they are bored. They complain how slow the math is moving and how basic the science is. They need to revert this back to an actual gifted program and send most of the kids back to the GE program, where they can appropriately differentiate and provide them with the current AAP curriculum.

[Anonymous]

21:24-- perhaps instead of harping about things you can't control such as the AAP program, why don't you take a more proactive approach in meeting the needs of your gifted and bored child by seeking other opportunities for enrichment outside of school. The public school system cannot serve you with 100% of your wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:21:24-- perhaps instead of harping about things you can't control such as the AAP program, why don't you take a more proactive approach in meeting the needs of your gifted and bored child by seeking other opportunities for enrichment outside of school. The public school system cannot serve you with 100% of your wants.

If AAP hadn't been watered down, a true G/T program could be targeted toward those who truly are gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:21:24-- perhaps instead of harping about things you can't control such as the AAP program, why don't you take a more proactive approach in meeting the needs of your gifted and bored child by seeking other opportunities for enrichment outside of school. The public school system cannot serve you with 100% of your wants.

If AAP hadn't been watered down, a true G/T program could be targeted toward those who truly are gifted.

Or so we're trolled and told again and again. Those seeking a smaller program, for whatever reason, need to work on new material. This can't work as the go-to response to every comment forever.

[Anonymous]

I agree. Putting these kids into a program that IMO should be for GT kids is absurd. The vast majority of the AAP kids are holding my kid back academically. My kid, along with 2 other AAP kids, are doing a ton of extra work on their own and together because they are bored. They complain how slow the math is moving and how basic the science is. They need to revert this back to an actual gifted program and send most of the kids back to the GE program, where they can appropriately differentiate and provide them with the current AAP curriculum.

And I hope you are happy having your child go to the one "TJ" elementary in the county to accomplish this, because this is really what you're asking for. A TJ for elementary school. Stop complaining about what's not working and be specific with what is reasonable as a change if you really want it to happen. If 90% or the vast majority of the kids in AAP aren't at your child's level, it's probably the same for every other AAP. Therefore in order to align the top 10% of AAP students, one or two centrally located schools will be required. That is the trade off. Instead of going to school with kids who eventually will filter into your child's high school, your child will have to go to school with kids from all over the county, never attending a school with kids who live nearby. And your child will be cloistered with other GT students their entire life never understanding the lives of the other 90% of students who they will be interacting for the rest of their lives with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree. Putting these kids into a program that IMO should be for GT kids is absurd. The vast majority of the AAP kids are holding my kid back academically. My kid, along with 2 other AAP kids, are doing a ton of extra work on their own and together because they are bored. They complain how slow the math is moving and how basic the science is. They need to revert this back to an actual gifted program and send most of the kids back to the GE program, where they can appropriately differentiate and provide them with the current AAP curriculum.

And I hope you are happy having your child go to the one "TJ" elementary in the county to accomplish this, because this is really what you're asking for. A TJ for elementary school. Stop complaining about what's not working and be specific with what is reasonable as a change if you really want it to happen. If 90% or the vast majority of the kids in AAP aren't at your child's level, it's probably the same for every other AAP. Therefore in order to align the top 10% of AAP students, one or two centrally located schools will be required. That is the trade off. Instead of going to school with kids who eventually will filter into your child's high school, your child will have to go to school with kids from all over the county, never attending a school with kids who live nearby. And your child will be cloistered with other GT students their entire life never understanding the lives of the other 90% of students who they will be interacting for the rest of their lives with.

NP. I would be fine with having several centers around the county. I'd be fine with my child being with his peers but not in class with neighbors because we can interact with the neighbors through other activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:21:24-- perhaps instead of harping about things you can't control such as the AAP program, why don't you take a more proactive approach in meeting the needs of your gifted and bored child by seeking other opportunities for enrichment outside of school. The public school system cannot serve you with 100% of your wants.

If AAP hadn't been watered down, a true G/T program could be targeted toward those who truly are gifted.

Or so we're trolled and told again and again. Those seeking a smaller program, for whatever reason, need to work on new material. This can't work as the go-to response to every comment forever.

We do seek outside support for our DC. But, the statement above is true and will continue to be true whether or not you like to hear it. A psychologist that has worked in FFX County for years, made the same statement to me recently - the program used for kids like your DD but now it's doesn't, which is sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree. Putting these kids into a program that IMO should be for GT kids is absurd. The vast majority of the AAP kids are holding my kid back academically. My kid, along with 2 other AAP kids, are doing a ton of extra work on their own and together because they are bored. They complain how slow the math is moving and how basic the science is. They need to revert this back to an actual gifted program and send most of the kids back to the GE program, where they can appropriately differentiate and provide them with the current AAP curriculum.

And I hope you are happy having your child go to the one "TJ" elementary in the county to accomplish this, because this is really what you're asking for. A TJ for elementary school. Stop complaining about what's not working and be specific with what is reasonable as a change if you really want it to happen. If 90% or the vast majority of the kids in AAP aren't at your child's level, it's probably the same for every other AAP. Therefore in order to align the top 10% of AAP students, one or two centrally located schools will be required. That is the trade off. Instead of going to school with kids who eventually will filter into your child's high school, your child will have to go to school with kids from all over the county, never attending a school with kids who live nearby. And your child will be cloistered with other GT students their entire life never understanding the lives of the other 90% of students who they will be interacting for the rest of their lives with.

And I would be okay with this in ES. What you fail to understand is that kids aren't in school 24 hours a day, nor do they only interact or form friendships with kids that are in their class. That's a very myopic view of a child's social life. I have neighbors with kids in private school, yet their DC are good friends with my DC. My one DC is in a different school that their sibling, yet they still have friends from the base school. They also both have friends in sports and outside activities which are kids going to different schools.

They should align the top 2-3% of the ES and open specific programs just for them at a few select schools and filter the current AAP curriculum into the base school. I fully believe a lot of the kids in GE can perform within the AAP curriculum. It's not a difficult curriculum at all for the top kids in AAP. It's a waste of their time.