Has Yale Become a PC Joke?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, does anyone else remember receiving directives WHILE IN UNIVERSITY about what your Halloween costume could/could not be? Are adult students in university (Yale University for crissakes) not capable of making adult decisions?

Yale has been PC central for a long time. I remember visiting in the mid-80s when college-shopping, and being completely turned off by how PC it was. Separate floors/housing for each conceivable ethnic/racial/sexual identity group. I wanted to go to college to be with a mix of people - the main purpose that colleges are residential in my opinion! To expose yourself to other points of view and experiences, not hunker down in groups of people who are the same as you are. 30 years later and Yale's PC policies seem to have achieved nothing - still segregated, still resorting to uncivil discourse.

Exactly! Allowing, if not tacitly encouraging this type of self-segregation under the guise of creating "identity" and "safe space" basically guts the central reason for valuing diversity in college admissions, to be exposed to other viewpoints, experiences and backgrounds.

I'm a recently grad, probably at least 20 years younger than you and agree 100%. Sadly, my slac and just about all colleges have caved in to having theme and "community" housing for blacks, hardcore feminists, devout Jews, Muslims etc...just about every "marginalized" group that supposedly "needs" their own space. It's PC to bash frats and how they manage their spaces but I find this trend concerning too.

On one hand, some of these them houses are very well run with a purpose, like the environmental studies house I ended up in because my friend/roommate had to withdraw. It's a LEED certified building and residents work together on the college's organic farm on the weekends to grow food served in the dining hall. Not to mention that quality of the living space is more homey and comfortable than living in a crappy cinderblock dorm. Cool and purposeful, no?

However, you can imagine the types who want to hunker down with other SJWs, Feminazis (yeah, I said it) and zealots from other groups and cloister themselves in a them house with 10-40 people just like them! Seriously, these kids attend a school with world class facilities and a fairly diverse student body yet choose to live in a bubble and throw their own parties and sit together in the dining hall everyday. Yet they call themselves "victims" just because they saw a poster or something they didn't like on campus!??!

When I shared a group house in DC just after graduation we had a roommate like this. Let's just say she had no idea how to navigate the world outside her victim bubble and college failed her as far as I'm concerned. She's smart on paper, but when you choose to live with other radical women instead of better grounded people with hobbies other than being perpetually offended I can only imagine what that does to your mind. She made a conscious decision to live with 3 other young men and women flipped shit over everything that wasn't in her control, even when she had no business telling us what to do. She would condescend us about our white privilege and one time while trying to teach her how to put furniture together she snapped "you don't have to mansplain it to me!" She didn't last long...

This is a problem money won't fix. If only more parents and teachers had the balls to stand up to these kids and tell them NO.

Rush Limbaugh said it first. Sounds like you've been listening to him more than just a few times.

But to each his own. It's a free country. Just remember that when other posters respond to your post.

Uh, right. Because there's zero truth in the stereotype? And no schools of feminism that thrive on bashing and shitting on men in the name of making women more equal? Keep telling yourself that champ.

No, champ. Keep telling yourself you're the man and how tough you are with the bullshit on an anonymous board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP asks if Yale has become a joke? Never. And there will continue to be significant applicants of all races and creeds. That includes all the other top tier colleges also.

So, folks can say they would never attend Yale or the like and say they will never hire anyone from Yale. But there will be tons of companies that will hire them, and there will be tons of students applying to Yale, etc.

I doubt the unfortunate Yale incident will impact admission because Yale still offers an excellent education. And that's the bottom line.

Well, that's what YOU believe.

I happened to work in brand marketing for a while, and events like this can change the "Yale" brand. This is going to make Yale more attractive to students ad employers interested in social studies and politics, and less attractive to essentially everyone else.

It's not that Yale is becoming a "joke," but certainly it can become less competitive than other universities in attractring those interested in the traditional "higher learning".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP asks if Yale has become a joke? Never. And there will continue to be significant applicants of all races and creeds. That includes all the other top tier colleges also.

So, folks can say they would never attend Yale or the like and say they will never hire anyone from Yale. But there will be tons of companies that will hire them, and there will be tons of students applying to Yale, etc.

I doubt the unfortunate Yale incident will impact admission because Yale still offers an excellent education. And that's the bottom line.

Well, that's what YOU believe.

I happened to work in brand marketing for a while, and events like this can change the "Yale" brand. This is going to make Yale more attractive to students ad employers interested in social studies and politics, and less attractive to essentially everyone else.

It's not that Yale is becoming a "joke," but certainly it can become less competitive than other universities in attractring those interested in the traditional "higher learning".

Yeah, okay. Time will tell. My money's on time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP asks if Yale has become a joke? Never. And there will continue to be significant applicants of all races and creeds. That includes all the other top tier colleges also.

So, folks can say they would never attend Yale or the like and say they will never hire anyone from Yale. But there will be tons of companies that will hire them, and there will be tons of students applying to Yale, etc.

I doubt the unfortunate Yale incident will impact admission because Yale still offers an excellent education. And that's the bottom line.

Well, that's what YOU believe.

I happened to work in brand marketing for a while, and events like this can change the "Yale" brand. This is going to make Yale more attractive to students ad employers interested in social studies and politics, and less attractive to essentially everyone else.

It's not that Yale is becoming a "joke," but certainly it can become less competitive than other universities in attractring those interested in the traditional "higher learning".

I doubt even if this happened at Harvard, their name brand would be tarnished with fewer applicants. Doesn't matter you work in marketing. Harvard and Yale have been around for a few centuries with quite a few ugly moments (including a recent cheating scandal at Harvard), and they continue to have 'em lined up at the door for every single division.

[Anonymous]

Here is an interesting perspective on the matter.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/194869/growing-up-at-yale

[Anonymous]

Actually, if this incident leads to any decline in applications, I think it would be a decline in applications from URM students. Yale looks like a less than hospitable environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, if this incident leads to any decline in applications, I think it would be a decline in applications from URM students. Yale looks like a less than hospitable environment.

I guarantee if there's a small, temporary decline, it won't last long. I can't think of one top tier college that hasn't had issues and resulted in significant decline in URMs. The education is a major, major draw. Don't underestimate URMs seeking top tier education. There are mechanisms at all top colleges that deal with racial, religious, and other problems albeit a little slowly at some but it's there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is an interesting perspective on the matter.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/194869/growing-up-at-yale

Interesting perspective.

By the way, the author speaks of Baraka speaking at Yale. David Duke (Grand Wizard of the Klan) spoke at Vanderbilt, Harvard, UNC, and University of Southern California. So Yale wasn't and isn't the only school that has had speakers that students found offensive.

Free speech is alive and well no matter how offensive or reactive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP asks if Yale has become a joke? Never. And there will continue to be significant applicants of all races and creeds. That includes all the other top tier colleges also.

So, folks can say they would never attend Yale or the like and say they will never hire anyone from Yale. But there will be tons of companies that will hire them, and there will be tons of students applying to Yale, etc.

I doubt the unfortunate Yale incident will impact admission because Yale still offers an excellent education. And that's the bottom line.

Well, that's what YOU believe.

I happened to work in brand marketing for a while, and events like this can change the "Yale" brand. This is going to make Yale more attractive to students ad employers interested in social studies and politics, and less attractive to essentially everyone else.

It's not that Yale is becoming a "joke," but certainly it can become less competitive than other universities in attractring those interested in the traditional "higher learning".

I doubt even if this happened at Harvard, their name brand would be tarnished with fewer applicants. Doesn't matter you work in marketing. Harvard and Yale have been around for a few centuries with quite a few ugly moments (including a recent cheating scandal at Harvard), and they continue to have 'em lined up at the door for every single division.

Very eloquently stated. Pity the world doesn't work that way -- ask the Catholic Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, if this incident leads to any decline in applications, I think it would be a decline in applications from URM students. Yale looks like a less than hospitable environment.

There are plenty of other students who would like to go to Yale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what to say anymore. If these kids feel that the conditions at Yale are intolerably racist and offensive, I seriously do not know where they will feel "safe" once they leave the cocooned environment of academia. I read the email and am appalled that the author's words are being twisted and mischaracterized the way they are, and that both she and her husband are so completely under fire. Of course Yale, as all universities it seems these days, are cowering and buckling under the emotion-based screaming and ranting and accusations of "RACISM!!!!" I am a liberal - never voted for a republican and never will (unless they miraculously turn around from the insane path they're currently on), but this trend in academia scares the crap out out of me. Maybe Univ of Chicago is the last bastion of sanity. We'll see how long they last tho.

And I'm sure you feel that nooses hanging from college trees, nigger scrawled on college walls, swastikas drawn on dorm room doors at othet colleges is simply free expression. Though, I think much of the email was mischaracterized.

And if you think UChicago would stand for one second for the aforementioned in the name of free expression, you haven't a clue what Chixago stands for.

Big differences between nooses and swasitkas, and a college kid wearing an Indian headdress on Halloween. If you can't see the nuance, I think that Chicago's education has failed you.

-A UofC Alum

And many native Americans would think your Chicago education has conveniently failed you.

The cavalier comment about the Indian headdress was meant to be harmless, I assume. While wearing a headdress may be meaningless to the PP, it probably carries more seriousness to someone native American/Indian. Years ago, I took my kids to a pow-wow in Maryland and during the performance, an eagle feather from the headdress fell to the ground. The whole ceremony came to a halt while the feather was retrieved and some type of respectful, quiet, interaction on the field took place. I didn't see the "importance" but the tribe did. Should I feel that it was an unnecessary, emotional-based response or show respect for something I didn't understand and make some attempt to understand and engage without being labeled politically correct. My new found knowledge of the feather event gave me incredible insight, understanding AND appreciation.

There are those who always shout political correctness but that isn't always the case and times when we have to realize that respect would go a long way to resolving social problems. Just as I put my hand over my heart when I say the pledge, I would expect others who are unfamiliar with the practice or prefer not to engage in the practice to respect those that do.

This is the kind of response that the Halloween costume might initiate. You are not invalidating the points made by the Yale administration. My comment about the Indian headdress was not cavalier, but rather an example about a not-uncommon costume that some people find offensive. Someone wearing that costume might not be aware that it is offensive. Some might not care. But, students must learn to navigate this world and weather these sorts of disruptions to one's ideal existence. It's not like having a burning cross on your front lawn.

Then they don't have to wear the costume, do they? People need to stop taking offense in everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you think college students should show moral outrage whenever another college student tells someone s/he disagrees with to shut the fuck up? Or is it just when they tell authority figures to STFU?

The fact that you even have to tell someone to exercise respect when choosing a costume says volumes about a broken moral compass.

Why anyone would purposely wear something fully knowing that it's offensive and hurtful has deeper issues regardless of your right for free expression.

Yawn.

No response eh

Suppose some student decided to dress up as corrupt dictator Robert Mugabe? (It's college, so kids have pretty far-ranging ideas.) Would some students find that offensive?! It would be hard for them to argue "cultural misappropriation" unless they wanted to embrace Mugabe's "culture".

Mugabe supporters would certainly find it offensive. And they are black, so no kiddin'

Are there any Mugabe supporters left anywhere, other than those who lined their pockets along with him?

I had a neighbor who a few years ago dressed up as Marion Barry with a "posse of prostitutes" for a Halloween party. We all thought it was a scream. However, my guess is that the obscenity-screaming girl at Yale would have found that offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what to say anymore. If these kids feel that the conditions at Yale are intolerably racist and offensive, I seriously do not know where they will feel "safe" once they leave the cocooned environment of academia. I read the email and am appalled that the author's words are being twisted and mischaracterized the way they are, and that both she and her husband are so completely under fire. Of course Yale, as all universities it seems these days, are cowering and buckling under the emotion-based screaming and ranting and accusations of "RACISM!!!!" I am a liberal - never voted for a republican and never will (unless they miraculously turn around from the insane path they're currently on), but this trend in academia scares the crap out out of me. Maybe Univ of Chicago is the last bastion of sanity. We'll see how long they last tho.

And I'm sure you feel that nooses hanging from college trees, nigger scrawled on college walls, swastikas drawn on dorm room doors at othet colleges is simply free expression. Though, I think much of the email was mischaracterized.

And if you think UChicago would stand for one second for the aforementioned in the name of free expression, you haven't a clue what Chixago stands for.

Big differences between nooses and swasitkas, and a college kid wearing an Indian headdress on Halloween. If you can't see the nuance, I think that Chicago's education has failed you.

-A UofC Alum

And many native Americans would think your Chicago education has conveniently failed you.

They'd probably really hate the tomahawk cheer.

--Braves fan.

[Anonymous]

I don't like the little horse on your shirt. My horse died when I was five. I am so offended. You can't understand my suffering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what to say anymore. If these kids feel that the conditions at Yale are intolerably racist and offensive, I seriously do not know where they will feel "safe" once they leave the cocooned environment of academia. I read the email and am appalled that the author's words are being twisted and mischaracterized the way they are, and that both she and her husband are so completely under fire. Of course Yale, as all universities it seems these days, are cowering and buckling under the emotion-based screaming and ranting and accusations of "RACISM!!!!" I am a liberal - never voted for a republican and never will (unless they miraculously turn around from the insane path they're currently on), but this trend in academia scares the crap out out of me. Maybe Univ of Chicago is the last bastion of sanity. We'll see how long they last tho.

And I'm sure you feel that nooses hanging from college trees, nigger scrawled on college walls, swastikas drawn on dorm room doors at othet colleges is simply free expression. Though, I think much of the email was mischaracterized.

And if you think UChicago would stand for one second for the aforementioned in the name of free expression, you haven't a clue what Chixago stands for.

Big differences between nooses and swasitkas, and a college kid wearing an Indian headdress on Halloween. If you can't see the nuance, I think that Chicago's education has failed you.

-A UofC Alum

And many native Americans would think your Chicago education has conveniently failed you.

The cavalier comment about the Indian headdress was meant to be harmless, I assume. While wearing a headdress may be meaningless to the PP, it probably carries more seriousness to someone native American/Indian. Years ago, I took my kids to a pow-wow in Maryland and during the performance, an eagle feather from the headdress fell to the ground. The whole ceremony came to a halt while the feather was retrieved and some type of respectful, quiet, interaction on the field took place. I didn't see the "importance" but the tribe did. Should I feel that it was an unnecessary, emotional-based response or show respect for something I didn't understand and make some attempt to understand and engage without being labeled politically correct. My new found knowledge of the feather event gave me incredible insight, understanding AND appreciation.

There are those who always shout political correctness but that isn't always the case and times when we have to realize that respect would go a long way to resolving social problems. Just as I put my hand over my heart when I say the pledge, I would expect others who are unfamiliar with the practice or prefer not to engage in the practice to respect those that do.

This is the kind of response that the Halloween costume might initiate. You are not invalidating the points made by the Yale administration. My comment about the Indian headdress was not cavalier, but rather an example about a not-uncommon costume that some people find offensive. Someone wearing that costume might not be aware that it is offensive. Some might not care. But, students must learn to navigate this world and weather these sorts of disruptions to one's ideal existence. It's not like having a burning cross on your front lawn.

Then they don't have to wear the costume, do they? People need to stop taking offense in everything.

No one needs to dress up for Halloween. But everyone needs to be able to deal with offensive behavior, language, and images in order to get through life.