MD public schools are segregated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD public schools are segregated or are MD neighborhoods segregated?

Both are true. The school segregation is not de jure, but it is de facto. 60 years ago that would have actually mattered to the Supreme Court, but those days are long gone.

Mid-county not much segregation. Down county and upper county neighborhoods are segregated.

Silver Spring is not segregated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MD public schools are segregated or are MD neighborhoods segregated? Can't help supply and demand of houses offering whatever size, commute, crime, pricing, etc. And it's too late to rip down a few lots and put in high density section 8 housing projects...

Well, no, actually you can help supply and demand -- through government policies on planning and zoning. Suburban development for white people in the 1950s didn't just naturally happen, like the weather.

It's interesting also how you associate increasing the proportion of non-white people in white neighborhoods with "high density section 8 housing projects". For more actual examples of actions affecting housing supply in Montgomery County, you might look at accessory apartments, minimums for required parking, and affordable housing/workforce housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD public schools are segregated or are MD neighborhoods segregated?

Both are true. The school segregation is not de jure, but it is de facto. 60 years ago that would have actually mattered to the Supreme Court, but those days are long gone.

Mid-county not much segregation. Down county and upper county neighborhoods are segregated.

Silver Spring is not segregated.

Yes it is.

[Anonymous]

^^ said by someone who lives in Virginia? Seriously, what are you smoking. PG is segregated, as is a lot of Bethesda and Potomac. Say what you want about Silver Spring, but it's about the most diverse jurisdiction in the area...it's not lily-white, but it;s not majority anything.

[Anonymous]

I think it's fair to say that Silver Spring is kind of big, and there are certain corners that can fairly be called diverse, and others where "segregation" is a fair way of describing the distribution of different groups among neighboring schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's fair to say that Silver Spring is kind of big, and there are certain corners that can fairly be called diverse, and others where "segregation" is a fair way of describing the distribution of different groups among neighboring schools.

Yes, Silver Spring as a whole is diverse but if you take each neighborhood it is "segregated". Also the kids self segregate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ said by someone who lives in Virginia? Seriously, what are you smoking. PG is segregated, as is a lot of Bethesda and Potomac. Say what you want about Silver Spring, but it's about the most diverse jurisdiction in the area...it's not lily-white, but it;s not majority anything.

Not from VA. I am from a diverse area of Montgomery County. Yes Bethesda, Potomac and Silver Spring are not diverse.

Germantown and Gaithersburg are more diverse - though the have pockets that are not diverse also. They have more neighbohoods that are diverse both economically and racially. (it was done with well planned MPDU's, HUD, etc.)

Not lilly-white does not equal diversity.

Look at QO has the same diversity structure as Blair without the segregation of the neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ said by someone who lives in Virginia? Seriously, what are you smoking. PG is segregated, as is a lot of Bethesda and Potomac. Say what you want about Silver Spring, but it's about the most diverse jurisdiction in the area...it's not lily-white, but it;s not majority anything.

Not from VA. I am from a diverse area of Montgomery County. Yes Bethesda, Potomac and Silver Spring are not diverse.

Germantown and Gaithersburg are more diverse - though the have pockets that are not diverse also. They have more neighbohoods that are diverse both economically and racially. (it was done with well planned MPDU's, HUD, etc.)

Not lilly-white does not equal diversity.

Look at QO has the same diversity structure as Blair without the segregation of the neighborhoods.

Are you talking about schools, neighborhoods or entire "towns" (I know MC doesn't really have many actual towns, but lets call Bethesda, Potomac and SS towns for the sake of argument)? Our local elementary school has no single race in the majority. The single family homes neighborhoods that feed into it are majority white, but there are also blacks, asians and latinos in the neighborhood. The apartment buildings are mostly black and latino, but from many different countries. Is every country on earth presented? No. Are there any mega-wealthy families? No. But it is still incredibly diverse.

[Anonymous]

^^ I live in Silver Spring and the demographics you describe are not what we've experienced. Most of the apartment complexes feed into a select group of schools, ensuring that there is very little ethnic or ses diversity at those schools, despite the presence of diversity in the community and diversity at surrounding schools.

[Anonymous]

9:45 here. People (kids and adults) self-segregate everywhere, in all situations. My point was that SS as a whole was a lot more diverse on a micro level...sure some neighborhoods are more white, some more hispanic, some more black (AA and immigrant), but at the ES level the schools were very diverse.

[Anonymous]

I think you're speaking from your particular experience. Our ES in Silver Spring has a very clear majority from both an ethnic and ses standpoint. So do a few of the neighboring elementary schools, with the rest of the schools in SS being much more diverse. Take a look at the way some of the boundaries were drawn and it's easy to understand how this happened notwithstanding the community having a much more diverse composition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:9:45 here. People (kids and adults) self-segregate everywhere, in all situations. My point was that SS as a whole was a lot more diverse on a micro level...sure some neighborhoods are more white, some more hispanic, some more black (AA and immigrant), but at the ES level the schools were very diverse.

I agree with your post. My kids point it out to me all the time. When we are situation X everybody is white, situation Y everybody is Hispanic, situation Z everybody is black. They ask why. It's hard to explain since I don't really understand it. I usually say I don't know what other people do or why, it is none of my business, I like to have lots of different friends.

I find that Gaithersburg and Germantown are not segregated like the rest of the county.

So if somebody said that MD public schools are segregated I would agree. If they wanted to find a community that is less segregated I would NOT say Silver Spring just like I would NOT say Bethesda or Potomac or Poolesville or a bunch of other places in MD .

But, I don't believe schools will fix this issue. I would always say if your life is diverse your children's lives will be diverse so work on making lots of friends with different backgrounds and kids will too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ said by someone who lives in Virginia? Seriously, what are you smoking. PG is segregated, as is a lot of Bethesda and Potomac. Say what you want about Silver Spring, but it's about the most diverse jurisdiction in the area...it's not lily-white, but it;s not majority anything.

Not from VA. I am from a diverse area of Montgomery County. Yes Bethesda, Potomac and Silver Spring are not diverse.

Germantown and Gaithersburg are more diverse - though the have pockets that are not diverse also. They have more neighbohoods that are diverse both economically and racially. (it was done with well planned MPDU's, HUD, etc.)

Not lilly-white does not equal diversity.

Look at QO has the same diversity structure as Blair without the segregation of the neighborhoods.

Are you talking about schools, neighborhoods or entire "towns" (I know MC doesn't really have many actual towns, but lets call Bethesda, Potomac and SS towns for the sake of argument)? Our local elementary school has no single race in the majority. The single family homes neighborhoods that feed into it are majority white, but there are also blacks, asians and latinos in the neighborhood. The apartment buildings are mostly black and latino, but from many different countries. Is every country on earth presented? No. Are there any mega-wealthy families? No. But it is still incredibly diverse.

If it was diverse there would be mega-wealthy families also.
I agree that it is important to look at the diversity within the 30/30/30. (i.e. many different countries) but if you say ... oh well in Bethesda within the white group there are many different countries people get all bent out of shape but I do think it is important.

The biggest problem is that if you took wealthy, rich, middle, and poor is the diversity still 30/30/30 in those groups. It is not, which gives kids the false sense that black and hispanic kids are poor and white kids are not. (it also give teachers that sense too)

Yes, compared to many areas in MD it has more diversity that others but the diversity lacks balance. SS is not the only place in this area that is "not diverse" because it lacks balance. there are other communities that have a better balance. There are actually neighborhoods in SS that are balanced. I just would not say all of SS is balanced in their diversity, within SS there are neighborhoods/schools/communities that are very segregated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:45 here. People (kids and adults) self-segregate everywhere, in all situations. My point was that SS as a whole was a lot more diverse on a micro level...sure some neighborhoods are more white, some more hispanic, some more black (AA and immigrant), but at the ES level the schools were very diverse.

I agree with your post. My kids point it out to me all the time. When we are situation X everybody is white, situation Y everybody is Hispanic, situation Z everybody is black. They ask why. It's hard to explain since I don't really understand it. I usually say I don't know what other people do or why, it is none of my business, I like to have lots of different friends.

I find that Gaithersburg and Germantown are not segregated like the rest of the county.

So if somebody said that MD public schools are segregated I would agree. If they wanted to find a community that is less segregated I would NOT say Silver Spring just like I would NOT say Bethesda or Potomac or Poolesville or a bunch of other places in MD .

But, I don't believe schools will fix this issue. I would always say if your life is diverse your children's lives will be diverse so work on making lots of friends with different backgrounds and kids will too.

What do you consider diverse? I am sure there are a couple of Silver spring elementary schools that 80% black or 80% hispanic. But there are many that are not that heavily tilted in one direction. Plus, I know there are many, many people on DCUM who would think that a school that is "only" 80% white qualifies as diverse. So, a conversation on what places are and are not diverse is meaningless if you don't define diversity.
BTW, we are an African American/immigrant family, living in a silver spring neighborhood that you would probably consider white and segregated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:45 here. People (kids and adults) self-segregate everywhere, in all situations. My point was that SS as a whole was a lot more diverse on a micro level...sure some neighborhoods are more white, some more hispanic, some more black (AA and immigrant), but at the ES level the schools were very diverse.

I agree with your post. My kids point it out to me all the time. When we are situation X everybody is white, situation Y everybody is Hispanic, situation Z everybody is black. They ask why. It's hard to explain since I don't really understand it. I usually say I don't know what other people do or why, it is none of my business, I like to have lots of different friends.

I find that Gaithersburg and Germantown are not segregated like the rest of the county.

So if somebody said that MD public schools are segregated I would agree. If they wanted to find a community that is less segregated I would NOT say Silver Spring just like I would NOT say Bethesda or Potomac or Poolesville or a bunch of other places in MD .

But, I don't believe schools will fix this issue. I would always say if your life is diverse your children's lives will be diverse so work on making lots of friends with different backgrounds and kids will too.

What do you consider diverse? I am sure there are a couple of Silver spring elementary schools that 80% black or 80% hispanic. But there are many that are not that heavily tilted in one direction. Plus, I know there are many, many people on DCUM who would think that a school that is "only" 80% white qualifies as diverse. So, a conversation on what places are and are not diverse is meaningless if you don't define diversity.
BTW, we are an African American/immigrant family, living in a silver spring neighborhood that you would probably consider white and segregated.

This is a NP - in parts of the US schools are 98% white. I don't think there are ANY like that in MOCO. So it all depends on how you look at it. When we were looking for homes - most of the ES demographics were pretty diverse (meaning no one majority). We were not looking in Bethesda or Potomac though so not sure about that area. We ended up in Gburg and it is quite diverse and from what I can tell - not as self segregating as some other areas.